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Cleveland: Sherwin-Williams' Headquarters

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5 hours ago, MayDay said:

 

If you mean caissons, then no - if I recall correctly, the previous buildings were demolished, Ameritrust was cancelled and the site was paved for parking, end of story. I don't think there was ever any formal construction, above or below street level.

 

MayDay is correct, the construction never started, no foundation work was done. It was simply paved over ... I was following it very closely back then, near the beginning of my urban design obsessions. 😉

Edited by Paul in Cleveland
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I wonder what the speculation that S-W has options to buy the Weston lots means for our hopes of something mixed use. There needs to be retail on St. Clair and W.3rd, and along Public Square. Is there any retail in the Landmark office building?

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Cleveland never had a height limit inspired by the Terminal Tower. Areas were zoned by height based on their relationship to the “context” of Cleveland. Simple economics (and foundation needs) dictated the heights of most buildings and prevented construction of real tall skyscrapers here.

Edited by fgerlak
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10 minutes ago, fgerlak said:

Cleveland never had a height limit inspired by the Terminal Tower. Areas were zoned by height based on their relationship to the “context” of Cleveland. Simple economics (and foundation needs) dictated the heights of most buildings and prevented construction of real tall skyscrapers here.

 

Yet Key Tower managed to hold the title of tallest building between NYC and Chicago from 1991-2007 when Comast Center in Philly topped off.   I give Cleveland props for that!  

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11 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Yet Key Tower managed to hold the title of tallest building between NYC and Chicago from 1991-2007 when Comast Center in Philly topped off.   I give Cleveland props for that!  

 

And same for Terminal Tower for quite an extended period of time as well. 

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45 minutes ago, fgerlak said:

Cleveland never had a height limit inspired by the Terminal Tower. Areas were zoned by height based on their relationship to the “context” of Cleveland. Simple economics (and foundation needs) dictated the heights of most buildings and prevented construction of real tall skyscrapers here.

I think 200 Public Square wanted to be taller than TT initially but was prevented from doing so if my memory serves me correctly. Man I feel old!

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I found a more recent photo of the northwest quadrant of public square. This photo would be circa 1980, Ameritrust already owned the property, before being torn down for their never realized office tower.

 

image.png.11cc5c5b201c6f4ed22ed50b4ea0f9ee.png

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^That's the pic I remember seeing, too young to remember seeing the buildings themselves.

 

Can't wait to see what SW comes up with for the site; the impact on downtown and Cleveland's perception to both those who live here and those who don't will be priceless.

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7 minutes ago, Growth Mindset said:

I found a more recent photo of the northwest quadrant of public square. This photo would be circa 1980, Ameritrust already owned the property, before being torn down for their never realized office tower.

 

image.png.11cc5c5b201c6f4ed22ed50b4ea0f9ee.png

Looks like one of the Weston lots was already a parking lot and the other a parking garage in 1980. It's unbelievable that it  will have taken 40 years to get rid of those eyesores!

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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1 minute ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Looks like one of the Weston lots was already a parking lot and the other a parking garage in 1980. It's unbelievable that it  will have taken 40 years to get rid of those eyesores!

 I wonder why they took down the garage.  It must have been too worn down or something because I don't see the financial benefit of tearing down a parking garage.

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Also, as I recall, it was a very unattractive, form-follows-function, three-story garage that actually would have been more attractive if it had been a surface lot. Oh, did I mention it was painted sky blue.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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10 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Also, as I recall, it was a very unattractive, form-follows-function, three-story garage that actually would have been more attractive if it had been a surface lot. Oh, did I mention it was painted sky blue.

There was also a deli on the ground floor.

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Regardless of the Terminal Tower height, over the later years, with a few exceptions, the 22 story, 300 foot high rise reigned supreme in Cleveland. Why? It was the theoretical height that could be supported by a floating slab or mat foundation. Finally David Lewin, a soils engineer, broke the rule, and designed a mat foundation for the 400+ foot National City Bank Building (which is still 400’). After that, building heights increased. Still taller buildings were built on expensive pile foundations. I am sure the “main” SHW skyscraper will require piles, but some of the subordinate buildings, up to 400’, will have the cheaper mat foundations.

Edited by fgerlak
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19 minutes ago, Growth Mindset said:

There was also a deli on the ground floor.

 

It was a real Cleveland institution, you could park your car, get a payday loan, and then get a sandwich. It's a shame we can't preserve our historic parking garages.

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7 hours ago, cle_guy90 said:

 I wonder why they took down the garage.  It must have been too worn down or something because I don't see the financial benefit of tearing down a parking garage.

 

Forest City Enterprises bought it and razed it in preparation for a future development built atoo the West Side Transit Center that never happened. The restaurant in the middle of the deck was Hoty's for many decades. That building dated to the 1830s but had its old facade torn off, it wasn't worth saving anymore. 

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"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you Buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it." -- Gordon Gekko.

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10 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

Yet Key Tower managed to hold the title of tallest building between NYC and Chicago from 1991-2007 when Comast Center in Philly topped off.   I give Cleveland props for that!  

Per online rankings found, Key Tower still #34 in country in height - with almost everything taller being in NYC, Chicago and a few other top 5-6 population metros. And was ranked somewhat higher until all the recent supertall build in NYC, etc.

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20 hours ago, math said:

 

It was a real Cleveland institution, you could park your car, get a payday loan, and then get a sandwich. It's a shame we can't preserve our historic parking garages.

 

WOW, now that's bringing back some interesting memories of my young adult life that I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT...

 

It seems like a million years ago now...

 

BUT HOPEFULLY we all will have good memories of this major project as its constructed!  And MAYBE even have some employment, fun, dining, dancing, and who knows what else each of us collectively enjoying ourselves spending time in the NEW SHW CENTER!!

Edited by Larry1962
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10 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

And same for Terminal Tower for quite an extended period of time as well. 

Something like 34 YEARS being the TALLEST BUILDING OUTSIDE NYC!

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On 11/6/2019 at 9:27 AM, YABO713 said:

@KJP You didn't have to do the comms director so dirty, Ken! 🤣 "THAT MAN HAS A FAMILY"

 

I toned down that part of the article when the article had only 9,000 +/- views. It's since topped 22,000 views, the third-most viewed article on NEOtrans. In case you were wondering, the most-viewed was when I broke the story of an Amazon Fulfillment Center replacing Euclid Square Mall. And #2 was the closing of the Phantasy Theater in Lakewood when a prospective buyer put that property under contract. Ultimately the sale didn't go through and the theater reopened. 

 

That's all the more reason why we should restrain our enthusiasm when I say that SHW has the Weston lots (and probably the Jacobs lot too) under contract. It's important, but not a sign that anything is a done deal.

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"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you Buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it." -- Gordon Gekko.

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9 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

 

WOW, now that's bringing back some interesting memories of my young adult life that I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT...

 

It seems like a million years ago now...

 

BUT HOPEFULLY we all will have good memories of this major project as its constructed!  And MAYBE even some employment, fun, dining, dancing, and who knows what else of us collectively enjoying ourselves spending time in the NEW SHW CENTER!!

 

That what development does, it brings out memories.  Most people over 40 will remember going to Halle's or Higbee's for Christmas.  Mr. JIngaling and the Christmas decorations, displays  and Santa.  Remember what is street level at the Park Building? Hough Bakery and Record .   I purposely go into Society Bank, because of the memories of banking there before direct deposit.  I remember paying bills at the CEI building.  In addition, we all can remember the types of Xrated / undesirable businesses that were in the WHD.  I mentioned this before, but it's funny to me, that popular restaurants and apartments in the WHD, once were X rated book stores.  It's important to remember the past and see how it has changed for the better. My oldest nephew and Niece barely remember Higbees downtown, and at that point Higbee's was only 5 floors.  They don't know a time when the Shaker Rapid and the Cleveland Rapid were separate.

They never knew a time where you could shop downtown to 6:30pm, and Thursdays to 9pm at Halles, May Co. and Higbee's and shop stores from Higbee's to Public Square.

 

I hope this new development brings new memories and experiences that we can all share and memories that our children and grand children can read about here and in Cleveland Memory Project in great detail.

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5 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

"I mentioned this before, but it's funny to me, that popular restaurants and apartments in the WHD, once were X rated book stores" and bath houses.

 

I was trying to keep it PG13 for the youngsters.  But the cat is out of the bag now.

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On 11/8/2019 at 6:44 AM, MayDay said:

 

If you mean caissons, then no - if I recall correctly, the previous buildings were demolished, Ameritrust was cancelled and the site was paved for parking, end of story. I don't think there was ever any formal construction, above or below street 

Maybe theyre confusing the fact that the foundations for the former Ameritrust Buildings are most likely still in the ground.   They were probably over designed with a high factor of safety and could potentially support a building of that size.  In any event, they will all need removed prior to the installation of new foundations.

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5 minutes ago, Jenny said:

Maybe theyre confusing the fact that the foundations for the former Ameritrust Buildings are most likely still in the ground.   They were probably over designed with a high factor of safety and could potentially support a building of that size.  In any event, they will all need removed prior to the installation of new foundations.

I am actually confused by your post.  Like May Day said there was no construction on the Jacobs lot at all after demolition of the previous buildings in the early 90s.  Are you referring to the foundations of the old buildings which I agree might still be there and would have to be dealt with when excavation begins.

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32 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I am actually confused by your post.  Like May Day said there was no construction on the Jacobs lot at all after demolition of the previous buildings in the early 90s.  Are you referring to the foundations of the old buildings which I agree might still be there and would have to be dealt with when excavation begins.

That’s what I got out of @Jenny‘s post—that the foundations may be left by the two buildings shown in previous posts upthread that were formerly used by Ameritrust. 
 

Knowing nothing about construction—if they were overengineered for a building bigger than the ones that sat on top of them, why wouldn’t they fit a new, taller building?

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24 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

That’s what I got out of @Jenny‘s post—that the foundations may be left by the two buildings shown in previous posts upthread that were formerly used by Ameritrust. 
 

Knowing nothing about construction—if they were overengineered for a building bigger than the ones that sat on top of them, why wouldn’t they fit a new, taller 

I suppose you could pull up the engineered drawings if they still exist (probably not), and start calculating what kind of bearing capacity they have. But if those buildings were built over 100 years ago, taller for them may have only been 20 stories. Long story short they are probably not adequate for what we think SW has in mind for that site. It's better to just assume their removal so those costs are already factored into the project.

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1 hour ago, Clevecane said:

That’s what I got out of @Jenny‘s post—that the foundations may be left by the two buildings shown in previous posts upthread that were formerly used by Ameritrust. 
 

Knowing nothing about construction—if they were overengineered for a building bigger than the ones that sat on top of them, why wouldn’t they fit a new, taller building?

1.  Ameritrust was never located in those two buildings (maybe a branch in the ground floor of one of them at one time but not even sure of that).  It's headquarters were at east ninth and Euclid (now Heinens and the 9).  They were planning to move to the Jacobs lot in a more than 50 story building (Jacobs was to be the developer and got stuck with the lot when Ameritrust merged with Society (now Key)).

 

2.  Like @Mov2Ohio said, if people are suggesting that the two foundations of those old short building (which again had no connection to Ameritrust) could be incorporated into a new build of the SWH headquarters, I don't know how that would be possible or why you would want to do it.

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12 hours ago, Htsguy said:

1.  Ameritrust was never located in those two buildings (maybe a branch in the ground floor of one of them at one time but not even sure of that).  It's headquarters were at east ninth and Euclid (now Heinens and the 9).  They were planning to move to the Jacobs lot in a more than 50 story building (Jacobs was to be the developer and got stuck with the lot when Ameritrust merged with Society 


thanks, @Mov2Ohio. I knew Ameritrust was on Ninth, but if you look up thread, the PS lot buildings have a giant Ameritrust sign—hence the assumption that they may have had overflow offices or a branch. 

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28 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Crain's continues its attempt to throw a wrinkle into the SW HQ conversation...

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/manufacturing/out-state-option-surfaces-new-sherwin-williams-headquarters

 

I could be wrong but I just feel like it’s an investor who is trying to make it seem like they are in the running when they clearly are not.  The search is not very early from everything people has heard from well connected sources. 

 

In response to an analyst's question, Smith said the Sherwin-Williams search is "very early" and the company has multiple Atlanta sites it could entertain. He also cited press reports that other suitor cities might be Charlotte and Dallas.

 

Also, the guy didn’t seem to have a clue what the size of the project would be and just said a million square feet based on what would be best for the site and not what he has been contacted for.

 

Mods please remove if the two sentences is too much to copy and paste from a paywall.

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regardless, anyone else find this tedious at this point?

 

These competing stories must probably be nothing short of psychological torture for current employees who want and need to make decisions about their future. Enough is enough.

 

Despite CEO Morikis last statement regarding timeline for official announcement, I think they need to re-consider and move this up ASAP.

 

Not fair to employees (and fans of UO 😉)

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1 hour ago, NewtoCLE said:

regardless, anyone else find this tedious at this point?

 

These competing stories must probably be nothing short of psychological torture for current employees who want and need to make decisions about their future. Enough is enough.

 

Despite CEO Morikis last statement regarding timeline for official announcement, I think they need to re-consider and move this up ASAP.

 

Not fair to employees (and fans of UO 😉)

Life isn't fair.  The rumors would take place regardless.

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I want to "go on the record" as well and let the public know that I am also in the running for the headquarters as I have offered them land in my backyard.  I was told they were in the very early stages of searching and that Topeka Kansas was also in the running but they would send over a soil boring machine to get samples in any event.

Edited by Htsguy
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3 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I want to "go on the record" as well and let the public know that I am also in the running for the headquarters as I have offered them land in my backyard.  I was told they were in the very early stages of searching and that Topeka Kansas was also in the running but they would send over a soil boring machine to get samples in any event.

 

shocked big sean GIF

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12 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I want to "go on the record" as well and let the public know that I am also in the running for the headquarters as I have offered them land in my backyard.  I was told they were in the very early stages of searching and that Topeka Kansas was also in the running but they would send over a soil boring machine to get samples in any event.

And by the way, I made this information known in a conference call for investors.  So far my stock has gone up a penny.  Subsequently I got this weird voice mail message from somebody at the SEC.  I haven't returned the call yet.

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