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Cleveland: Sherwin-Williams' Headquarters

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On 11/6/2019 at 10:39 AM, JSC216 said:


SHW is already located downtown and technically currently have an indoor connection to the Renaissance. I doubt this has a major impact on their hotel occupancy. 

Yes BUT SHW is right now located on Huron, whereas when it's across the street on Superior it would provide a great location for out of town customers, managers, and trainees to be based at the Renaissance Hotel and with ALMOST DOUBLE the NUMBER of EMPLOYEES TOO!

Edited by Larry1962
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Okay, but what does that dork of a 'relocation expert' have to say? That's all I want to know. 

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13 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Prevailing wage remains the sticking point for Nucleus.  It would be under construction right now if not for that issue. 

 

^ Yeah, prevailing wage is one of the hold-ups. The TMUD legislation pending through the statehouse is likely another. Developers aren't in the habit of leaving money on the table, and if there's an opportunity to lower their cost they're going to wait.

 

Bringing it back to S-W, I have to imagine the TMUD would be applicable for their headquarters if they can manage to call it "mixed use". They may even wait for an announcement until the legislation passes.

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15 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

^ Yeah, prevailing wage is one of the hold-ups. The TMUD legislation pending through the statehouse is likely another. Developers aren't in the habit of leaving money on the table, and if there's an opportunity to lower their cost they're going to wait.

 

Bringing it back to S-W, I have to imagine the TMUD would be applicable for their headquarters if they can manage to call it "mixed use". They may even wait for an announcement until the legislation passes.

 

SHW isn't waiting on nor counting on the TMUD legislation to be passed.

Edited by Clefan98
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2 hours ago, NR said:

So I think I have found the happy medium of "corporate campus" and urban high-rise.  The Tencent Headquarters in China.  

 

Here is a quick description I found of their Corporate Campus:  "The traditional model for corporate design places companies in a singular high-rise or in multiple low-rise buildings. The design of the Tencent Seafront Towers merges the concepts by bringing the best of both together. Dubbed the Synergy Tower, the building provides the value associated with high-rises in urban locations with the connectivity of a low-rise campus."

 

The video in this link gives a great look at and overview of the Corporate Headquarters. The video is Must See:  http://www.nbbj.com/work/tencent/

 

The materials and look can be adjusted as needed for the desired appearance, but I believe the overall concept/design is much better than a bunch of low or maybe mid-rise buildings. Those belong in a suburban location.  Plus I love the Green-Space that Tencent has on the top of each connecting bridge. Very well done and providing great views for your employees.

 

 

Tencent Headquarters1.jpg

Tencent Headquarters2.jpg

I think a lot of us could live with that design!  - but maybe not Stark - it’s a reminder of the original Nucleus - times two. 

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48 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

Yes BUT SHW is right now located on Huron, whereas when it's across the street on Superior it would provide a great location for out of town customers, managers, and trainees to be based at the Renaissance Hotel and with ALMOST DOUBLE the NUMBER of EMPLOYEES TOO!

 

Good point. And to add on to some of my comments from yesterday; SHW has ~300 employees located at their training center currently based in Strongsville. They bring in 1000's of employees from the across the world for training each year. Most of these employees are put up in hotels along the 71 corridor in Middleburg. The new training center will be based at the new downtown HQ (interior design is already underway) and is due to almost double in size. I believe a new hotel, or an expansion of an existing hotel, will be needed as part of this relocation and expansion.  

Edited by Clefan98
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23 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Good point. And to add on to some of my comments from yesterday; SHW has ~300 employee's located at their training center currently based in Strongsville. They bring in 1000's of employees from the across the world for training each year. Most of these employees are put up in hotels along the 71 corridor in Middleburg. The new training center will be based at the new downtown HQ (interior design is already underway) and is due to almost double in size. I believe a new hotel, or an expansion of an existing hotel will be needed as part of this relocation and expansion.  

 

Should also note they rent additional office space at Case for VP training, and Baldwin Wallace for on-the-job development training. The number of trainees at these two locations are between 800-900 per year  (and growing). This is in addition to their official training center in Strongsville.  

Edited by Clefan98
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40 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Should also note they rent additional office space at Case for VP training, and Baldwin Wallace for on-the-job development training. The number of trainees at these two locations are between 800-900 per year  (and growing). This is in addition to their official training center in Strongsville.  

Is the plan to consolidate ALL of those jobs and functions at the new HQ?  If so, that’s fantastic.  Just more moving parts than I originally thought.

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2 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Is the plan to consolidate ALL of those jobs and functions at the new HQ?  If so, that’s fantastic.  Just more moving parts than I originally thought.

 

The push from the top is to consolidate as much as possible. The term being thrown around is "Global HQ", but I think saying ALL jobs would be a stretch. For instance, they're going to keep their model store and small training unit open in Berea. 

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I'd love to see something along the lines of this, although obviously it would be done at a smaller scale. I've got a sinking feeling the HQ may look more like a 6-acre, 6-story brick, but a guy can dream! 😁

 cibc-square_exterior_dusk_hres.jpg

Edited by LlamaLawyer
I failed proofreading school
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I hope they think big.  They have an opportunity to make a bold statement and greatly enhance the Cleveland skyline.    Sohio had the opportunity to do that with their building in the 80s.  Unfortunately, they were too worried about exceeding the height of Terminal Tower and instead built the shortish, stocky building which was a bit underwhelming IMO. 

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16 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I hope they think big.  They have an opportunity to make a bold statement and greatly enhance the Cleveland skyline.    Sohio had the opportunity to do that with their building in the 80s.  Unfortunately, they were too worried about exceeding the height of Terminal Tower and instead built the shortish, stocky building which was a bit underwhelming IMO. 

Were "They" worried, or did the zoning board, stop them from building the taller Sohio Building?

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13 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I think it was for the latter reason.

I remember that.  In fact didnt SOHIO threaten to move over that?  Seems also that they originially to build in back of Tower City though i could be mistaken after 40 years

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Not sure about sites or threats to relocate, but in the mid-80's, the city prohibited any buildings to exceed the height of the Terminal Tower.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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1 hour ago, skiwest said:

 instead built the shortish, stocky building which was a bit underwhelming IMO. 

 

I actually really like the look of that building (probably more than Key even) but most people I've talked to seem to agree more with your side.

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When built, it was the first major PS construction since 55 PS, and it dramatically changed the skyline. While not a fan of its color, I do like the design and the way in which it embraces the PS site.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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I’m afraid that building examples being put up on this site look real Chinese or high end NYC. They do not look very Cleveland, especially representative of the conservative corporation that is SHW. Well, have fun, but at the end of the day, let’s hope they hire a good architect. Foster Partners, (Cle Clinic Med School, the Gherkin in London) in my opinion, would be a good choice along with a good site planning firm. Maybe they can get those stupid Jersey barricades out of Public Square!

Edited by fgerlak
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On 11/6/2019 at 9:13 AM, Htsguy said:

It has been 29 years.  I venture to guess that some members of this forum were not even born yet.  I was getting to the point that I would have welcomed a McDonald's with a drive thru so long as something was built on that lot. 

I definitely wasn't lol.

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"The project was headed by Richard and David Jacobs, who had recently opened the Galleria at Erieview Tower. The previous year, Cleveland City Planning Commission changed the height restrictions on the Society site from 250 to 900 feet. The Terminal Tower’s era of visual dominance was over."

 

https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/305

 

This made me wonder. What is the height restriction on the Jacobs lot? Is it around the same as Key Tower due to the Ameritrust plans? 

 

Also Society Tower was constructed not too long after the SOHIO building. Why were they able to exceed the height of Terminal Tower and SOHIO got push back? 

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"Idk, Google doesn’t seem to know what a “corporate hq urban campus” is. Lol"

 

Why am I not surprised?  Who created the term? TYVM.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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22 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

This made me wonder. What is the height restriction on the Jacobs lot? Is it around the same as Key Tower due to the Ameritrust plans?

 

900'

 

https://cityofcleveland.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3318095&GUID=51FC9D7A-710C-4CA5-AC1A-974D65F5E89D&Options=ID|Text|&Search=height

 

Within that page is a link to a PDF with a map. The recently simplified height districts have been discussed and shared elsewhere on the board.

 

Cleveland.com article that discusses the height districts but no longer has a working map: https://www.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2018/03/downtown_cleveland_zoning_chan.html

Edited by infrafreak
phrasing, as Archer would say. plus an extra link.
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A friend of mine who works for DCA told me once that the pylons for the Ameritrust tower were poured before the project was cancelled, so Jacobs would never put in a building there under 40 stories. Anybody know if there is truth to this comment?

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19 minutes ago, scg80 said:

A friend of mine who works for DCA told me once that the pylons for the Ameritrust tower were poured before the project was cancelled, so Jacobs would never put in a building there under 40 stories. Anybody know if there is truth to this comment?

 

I don't believe that is true. 

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8 hours ago, scg80 said:

A friend of mine who works for DCA told me once that the pylons for the Ameritrust tower were poured before the project was cancelled, so Jacobs would never put in a building there under 40 stories. Anybody know if there is truth to this comment?

 

If you mean caissons, then no - if I recall correctly, the previous buildings were demolished, Ameritrust was cancelled and the site was paved for parking, end of story. I don't think there was ever any formal construction, above or below street level.

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15 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Were "They" worried, or did the zoning board, stop them from building the taller Sohio Building?

You are correct, it was the city that prevented Sohio from exceeding the height of Terminal Tower.  For some reason, I had thought it was Sohio's decision.

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11 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

 

"Idk, Google doesn’t seem to know what a “corporate hq urban campus” is. Lol"

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

"Downtown headquarters campus" is almost an oxymoron. The vast majority of "headquarters campuses" are way out in the 'burbs, and the vast majority of "downtown headquarters" either aren't really campuses or really aren't campuses. So it's sorta hard to picture what SHW is planning (and obviously most all we're doing is guessing and playing SimCity). 

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If you think about how they want both office functions and labs on the same property it may make it clearer why a collection of buildings makes more sense than one large vertical structure.

 

 

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Anyone know if there was there ever anything remarkable on the Jacobs lot? 

I forget what was there before it was torn down for Ameritrust, but I don't remember it being anything special, as opposed to the county administration building that was imploded for the Standard Oil (Sohio?) building.

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9 minutes ago, punch said:

Anyone know if there was there ever anything remarkable on the Jacobs lot? 

I forget what was there before it was torn down for Ameritrust, but I don't remember it being anything special, as opposed to the county administration building that was imploded for the Standard Oil (Sohio?) building.

It was a couple of old multi tenant buildings that had been "modernized" with some awful cladding (see picture @MayDay posted in this thread pre cladding).  I remember there were lots of sole practitioner lawyers in the building sharing office space since it was so close to court.

 

I am confused by your referenced to the county administration building imploded for Sohio?  Where was it?  I recall the Cuyahoga and Williamson Buildings being the primary tear downs and a great loss.

Edited by Htsguy
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36 minutes ago, punch said:

^I may be remembering the name / function of the Cuyahoga and WIlliamsom wrong.  

 

If I recall they were just regular office buildings.  Very special, especially the Cuyahoga.   I would have rather that they had stayed and Sohio had built on what is now the Jacobs lot instead.

Edited by Htsguy
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13 minutes ago, punch said:

Anyone know if there was there ever anything remarkable on the Jacobs lot? 

I forget what was there before it was torn down for Ameritrust, but I don't remember it being anything special, as opposed to the county administration building that was imploded for the Standard Oil (Sohio?) building.

 Here is a photo from 1952 of that section of PS. Notice the giant whiskey ad on the top of the smaller building in the middle to even the height.

image.thumb.png.3ed28a281690ccf15b10db34acb586b9.png

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5 hours ago, MayDay said:

 

If you mean caissons, then no - if I recall correctly, the previous buildings were demolished, Ameritrust was cancelled and the site was paved for parking, end of story. I don't think there was ever any formal construction, above or below street level.

 

MayDay is correct, the construction never started, no foundation work was done. It was simply paved over ... I was following it very closely back then, near the beginning of my urban design obsessions. 😉

Edited by Paul in Cleveland
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I wonder what the speculation that S-W has options to buy the Weston lots means for our hopes of something mixed use. There needs to be retail on St. Clair and W.3rd, and along Public Square. Is there any retail in the Landmark office building?

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Cleveland never had a height limit inspired by the Terminal Tower. Areas were zoned by height based on their relationship to the “context” of Cleveland. Simple economics (and foundation needs) dictated the heights of most buildings and prevented construction of real tall skyscrapers here.

Edited by fgerlak
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