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KJP

Cleveland: Sherwin-Williams' Headquarters

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2 minutes ago, KJP said:

...publicly accessible edge to the downtown lakefront, we need the same for the part of the Cuyahoga River that comes closest to the heart of downtown.

 

Public riverfront/lake access and/or a contiguous walkway/easements should be a planning requirement for any new builds in these areas

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If the JC goes the the Jacobs lot, could/would the complex extend to the Weston lots as well, or is that just wishful thinking?

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4 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I'm going to be unlike myself, and be a debbie here, but choosing the bedrock site is instantly losing about 4 stories in height from the PS site (site grades).  But miniscule issue in comparison to them moving out of town, LOL.  

Jenny, I thought the same thing! lol.....They'll just have to build it taller!!!

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@KJP  If and when an announcement is finally made (especially if it is in the short term) do you think it will include conceptual renderings?  Although I am no development expert I would find it strange to have any retained architect developing site plans etc (especially given the cost) if you are still in negotiations for two different sites.  I would also think that such renderings do not just pop up in a day or two and require some significant thought.

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Doing the math here... If Sherwin decides to have a 40 story tower and the floor height is comparable to Key Tower's:

 

Key Tower: 57 floors, 888 feet (without roof)    888 feet / 57 stories = 15.58 feet/story

 

Sherwin-Williams Tower: 40 floors x 15.58 feet = 623.16 feet

 

That's still fairly impressive, and only 36" shorter than 200 Public Square.

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12 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

@KJP  If and when an announcement is finally made (especially if it is in the short term) do you think it will include conceptual renderings?  Although I am no development expert I would find it strange to have any retained architect developing site plans etc (especially given the cost) if you are still in negotiations for two different sites.  I would also think that such renderings do not just pop up in a day or two and require some significant thought.

 

The whole process was strange. SHW (or possibly Welty) retained Vocon to generate concepts for downtown sites and Welty asked CM's, as part of the RFQ, to develop proposals on their own dime to compete for the SHW HQ+R&D CM contract. The proposals were very detailed, right down to the interior finishes. I'm sure the competing CM firms spent a lot of work hours developing these proposals. But they were competing for a whale and they don't come along every day.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Just now, Jenny said:

@KJP  just out of curiosity, what are all of the yellow buildings to the east of the proposed tower in the bedrock massings?

 

They are noted in the captions. The buildings are the later phases of the CityBlock development, as shown in this massing:

 

Cityblock-riverview-phase.JPG


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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I am a bit confused on how choosing the Bedrock site allows SHW to be less disruptive. If anything, as this site is encompassing and modernizing The current Breen, I would imagine it would slow down production and efficiency there while having to transition. I wonder if this would mean they would build all new construction initially and then rehab Breen? 
 

By no means am I an expert on any of this process, so I may be way off. I also am surprised they would choose to “modernize” Breen, rather than a tear down with new construction...although that may be impossible given the need to utilize Breen. 

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28 minutes ago, HGRHS said:

I am a bit confused on how choosing the Bedrock site allows SHW to be less disruptive. If anything, as this site is encompassing and modernizing The current Breen, I would imagine it would slow down production and efficiency there while having to transition. I wonder if this would mean they would build all new construction initially and then rehab Breen? 
 

By no means am I an expert on any of this process, so I may be way off. I also am surprised they would choose to “modernize” Breen, rather than a tear down with new construction...although that may be impossible given the need to utilize Breen. 

 

They might in fact choose to replace Breen. But half of Breen is only 21 years old and the 1948-built half of Breen was thoroughly renovated in 1986. Locating the HQ right next to Breen gives SHW the option of either replacing or renovating its R&D facilities -- an option that doesn't exist with other sites.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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It all makes alot of sense for a number of reasons. Unfortunately a 40 story tower on the river though will have less skyline prominence than one built on PS. At least SW will be staying and I can continue painting the interior of my condo. 

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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if sw stays along the riverfront that works too.

 

it will get built up nicely around there.

 

and who knows that could even mean ... thunderbirds are go!

 

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

The whole process was strange. SHW (or possibly Welty) retained Vocon to generate concepts for downtown sites and Welty asked CM's, as part of the RFQ, to develop proposals on their own dime to compete for the SHW HQ+R&D CM contract. The proposals were very detailed, right down to the interior finishes. I'm sure the competing CM firms spent a lot of work hours developing these proposals. But they were competing for a whale and they don't come along every day.

 

Agreed that CM firms spent a lot of work & time on this but it's not unusual.  Only a couple firms competing.  Huge potential upside.  Often the firms put together preconstruction proposal to cover their costs and will waive it if they are the successful firm.

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While like many others I’ve been rooting for the PS site, I would still be really happy with this!


As others have noted,  I love the thought of the potential for increased riverfront development that SWHQ is likely to trigger.

 

But I’m also very intrigued by the sight of a large (even if not supertall), visually stunning, state of the art skyscraper slightly removed from PS.

 

Aesthetically, I’m among those who would prefer the city’s tallest and most distinct structures to be a bit more spread out and interspersed throughout the CBD, rather than all clustered together in the center.

 

(Not to say I don’t still wish for a huge, skyline-changing presence for the “4th wall” of PS)!

 

Excellent work as always, @KJP

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https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/10/ppg-adds-research-lab-at-cleveland-coatings-plant-with-eye-toward-electric-driverless-vehicles.html

 

Interesting and relevant quote on why PPG has chosen to invest so much in Cleveland including just recently adding a research lab. 

 

“There are synergies with our existing facilities. But beyond that, Cleveland has a very strong technical community,” said Gary Bennett.  

 

IMO the knowledge and the experience alone in this region was reason enough for Sherwin Williams to never truly consider leaving Cleveland.

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1 hour ago, HGRHS said:

By no means am I an expert on any of this process, so I may be way off. I also am surprised they would choose to “modernize” Breen, rather than a tear down with new construction...although that may be impossible given the need to utilize Breen. 

Breen is also pretty well maintained with updates throughout the years. Just this month they finished the addition of a new microbiology lab and submitted plans to replace the roof of the building. And using this building and land they already own would definitely lower costs on the new HQ. With the amount they won't need to spend, maybe they'll just save the money or maybe they'll pump it into slightly increasing the size of the project but that's just speculation.

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I will be very disappointed if this thing doesn't go on Public Square.  This is a once in a generation chance to do something significant with that long-festering wasteland.

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While I would be elated for Sherwin-Williams to remain in Cleveland, I am being cautiously optimistic until an actual and formal announcement is introduced by the company.

 

I know that I am not alone in feeling a bit let-down if S-W does build their headquarters on that small sliver of land behind Tower City. I don't believe that anything of prolific stature and architectural significance could be erected there due to the confines of the available space.

 

Certainly, building at the riverfront site would provide less of an impact on our skyline because it would be far less visible from other vantage points in Downtown.

 

Building a new headquarters anywhere outside of the Jacob's or Weston lot's just simply leaves me feeling a bit crestfallen.

 

I personally would NOT want to see a NEW Justice Center and Jail complex rise on Public Square ... That space has been aching for a signature skyscraper for eons and eons. C'mon Sherwin-Williams, make yourselves very visible to the World with a glittering and prolific monstrosity in the heart of the city.

 

Just my two cents, rant over. 😮😔😞

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4 hours ago, CLE_Millennial said:

I'll take it! Definitely interesting for sure. I have no idea whet the skyline would look like if they choose this site. Very excited to hear their official announcement.

 

Also looking forward to some skyline massings, but I think @GISguy has made an excellent point. Public access to the river should be a given. 

Edited by surfohio
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32 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Understood, but not sure, from a security perspective, how that could be accomplished on a corporate campus.

 

I mean, they have nearly 200' of river property that isn't anything more than a fenced in walking path/courts. I always think of my old neighborhood in Pittsburgh (north side) when it comes to these types of ideas, Alcoa/Arconic had a major office on the river, and on the southside there's plenty of HQ's that also have river access. I get that it isn't a campus environment but I really think it's important to make sure the riverfront stays public. Once it's private, it will be forever, much like a HQ, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

 

image.thumb.png.e3e12cffc3e747fd4bc68528fe2da6ef.png

 

Northside

image.thumb.png.bc3ec8e7840fc57f160abc5001edf866.png

 

Southside (notice American Eagle HQ)

image.thumb.png.8137fd541e9cf0fb7dbb78802cf89025.png

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3 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said:

...and don't forget the third option, the suburban Atlanta office park.  An "expert in office relocation" seemed very certain ATL was a slam dunk.

So what did Mr Boyd say

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1 hour ago, ydard said:

I will be very disappointed if this thing doesn't go on Public Square.  This is a once in a generation chance to do something significant with that long-festering wasteland.

I'll just be grateful they stay in Cleveland and downtown too! 

 

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51 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

Okay, dumb question, but does the riverfront plan include the lot/space where the LeBron billboard once was?

 

Haven't heard anything about that spot.


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Just now, Boxtruffles said:

@KJP Do you have the (1980s?) vision for the current Bedrock site? @Geowizical's unofficial massing for the site is reminiscent of that by comparison.

 

Yes, I do. This is from 1990.... 😉 

 

 

Tower City Riverview Masterplan 1990.jpg

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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BTW, here are all of the views of the CityBlock/SHW area that @Geowizical sent to me....

SHW-Bedrock-Breen-site7.jpg

 

SHW-Bedrock-Breen-site6.jpg

 

 

SHW-Bedrock-Breen-site5.jpg

 

SHW-Bedrock-Breen-site4.jpg

 

SHW-Bedrock-Breen-site3.jpg

 

SHW-Bedrock-Breen-site2.jpg

 

SHW-Bedrock-Breen-site1.jpg

 

Edited by KJP
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Yes, I do. This is from 1990.... 😉 

 

 

Tower City Riverview Masterplan 1990.jpg

If we can realize this between SW and Bedrock, I think the riverfront is the right choice. It literally creates a whole new field of depth to the skyline—and even if they’re at a lower grade, it provides cohesion and grandeur to the skyline. 
 

This, paired with a JC tower, would provide a north-south axis of height on our skyline currently reflected only on the ninth street corridor. 

Edited by Clevecane
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24 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Yes, I do. This is from 1990.... 😉 

 

 

Tower City Riverview Masterplan 1990.jpg

With the shape of retail in the Amazon era, we should be fortunate a lot of this didn’t happen. I like the potential of Take 2. SHW, CityBlock, Bedrock. I feel the London Stock Exchange planting roots here will give CityBlock a leg up on a lot of the competition. It’s a huge underrated development imo. Major street cred for CLE

Edited by marty15
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1 hour ago, Clevecane said:

If we can realize this between SW and Bedrock, I think the riverfront is the right choice. It literally creates a whole new field of depth to the skyline—and even if they’re at a lower grade, it provides cohesion and grandeur to the skyline. 
 

This, paired with a JC tower, would provide a north-south axis of height on our skyline currently reflected only on the ninth street corridor. 

Ha - you just want a better view from your office. 😀

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1 hour ago, marty15 said:

With the shape of retail in the Amazon era, we should be fortunate a lot of this didn’t happen. I like the potential of Take 2. SHW, CityBlock, Bedrock. I feel the London Stock Exchange planting roots here will give CityBlock a leg up on a lot of the competition. It’s a huge underrated development imo. Major street cred for CLE

Couldn’t agree more. You have to think having all these tech companies showing interest in city block was one of the factors the London Stock Exchange  chose here. Scranton peninsula will blow up with this 

Edited by WindyBuckeye
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2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Yes, I do. This is from 1990.... 😉 

 

 

Tower City Riverview Masterplan 1990.jpg

 

Ken - Excellent find.  This pic was in a short-lived magazine--unimaginatively called Downtown Magazine.  I don't know how many issues they had, but I also still have my copy of this one.

But I agree with the commenters here.  I couldn't imagine a million-odd square feet of upscale mall stores and department stores on Huron Avenue--especially with the retail apocalypse going on right now.

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While tempting to think of the "what if" had Tower City been built to its full vision, I agree with the above.  It could have been disastrous, even worse than what we have now.  Its going to be fascinating to see what happens in the next few months and years once we know where SW finally lands.  Even if SW chooses Public Square, I think it still will impact TC/City Block and all the momentum there.  But certainly the riverfront option adds a certain shot in the arm.  Now I don't know which one I want more!!

Edited by mrclifton88
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