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Cleveland: Sherwin-Williams' Headquarters

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3 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said:

So when they say they want the R&D facility located close to the actual HQ, do they literally want it attached to the HQ or simply close by like it is now? Because that opens up even more options. For example, Landmark Office Towers are a fortress. I could see putting an R&D facility in there on the lower floors and putting apartments on the upper floors. And then a new tower on PS is literally a short walk through Tower City

 

Or they expand Breen. Remember the HQ plan five years didn't involve R&D at all. Breen was going to stay put. But now there's a lot more R&D jobs post-Valspar and some consolidations going on. I could confirm the closure of the Chicago lab, but I also heard about a SHW lab in Colorado Springs closing with some of their workers relocated to Cleveland. But I couldn't find any details about that. But I do have details on the space needs now, and that 1.6 million SF includes both an HQ and R&D. And SHW likes to have management and scientists be able to walk back and forth between the two.

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12 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

 

 

BTW, that reminds me, one of the rumors five years ago was that SHW was considering that very idea -- building a new HQ between Canal Road and the river, next to Breen. If that was an actual option, it didn't win. A management committee overseeing this HQ process back then chose the Jacobs lot. Now they're going the RFP route.

I guess this whole RFP scenario has me a bit confused.  Could it possibly be that a decision has pretty much been made and this is a "due diligence" exercise for the board in order to cover their asses?

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2 minutes ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

KJP,

 

Do your sources know if an actual announcement is still in the immediate future?

 

What do they feel will actually happen, especially with regards to building on the woefully empty Jacobs parcels?

 

If real estate professionals are all abuzz concerning this development, I am surprised that not even the intrusive and ever knowing noses over at Scene Magazine haven't spoken on this ... They're famous for such stories.

 

Well, whatever comes out, I just hope that Sherwin-Williams goes ahead with a signature skyscraper near Public Square.

 

We are all waiting and watchful .... 😁

 

An announcement would likely following a decision on an RFP. Don't expect one with the release of the RFP. Any announcement would come after SHW choosing a proposal. So we're probably at least least six months away from that, perhaps into early 2020.

 

And Scene magazine?? Why would anyone in the business community leak something to Scene?


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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27 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Do you think Jacobs and Weston can work together? It’s a lot on the line to make this work. We CANNOT have them going to the suburbs. It’d be bad for the city, bad for SW, bad all around

I think that a 2 11 story R&D buildings plus a parking garage  can me worked out between Weston & Jacobs 

on the parcel north of Frankforth ave.

 

But the southern parcel on superior ave Weston has to be looking for something more than 11 stories. That parcel is prime for something 25-30 stories

tall.   

 

A lot has to do with what the stark building buyer has in mind for his purchase of the Stark building.

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2 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

These guys are really going to move to the burbs?  They are just being fair to the RFP process

 

 

banner 3.jpg

I hope so. The mere thought of them going to the burbs makes me ill

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21 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

I hope so. The mere thought of them going to the burbs makes me ill

 

Doesn't their HQ have to be located near the original site? Also, it seems like the phase of corporate HQs to moving to the suburbs is dying down. Suburban Cleveland HQs have been putting in little offices Downtown with a couple hundred employees, which seems to mark a potential trend of a reversal?

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FWIW    Sherwin WIlliams put a few million dollars into repairing the bulkheads next to the Breen R&D center in that past couple of years. 

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1 hour ago, YO to the CLE said:

So when they say they want the R&D facility located close to the actual HQ, do they literally want it attached to the HQ or simply close by like it is now? Because that opens up even more options. For example, Landmark Office Towers are a fortress. I could see putting an R&D facility in there on the lower floors and putting apartments on the upper floors. And then a new tower on PS is literally a short walk through Tower City

I don't see how you could put a chemical engineering R&D lab in the Landmark Building.  You need explosive proof rooms, roof vents, all kinds of things that are hard or impossible to do in a high rise.  Expanding Breen makes a lot more sense if they have the real estate to do it. 

 

Also, I am glad that the Ameritrust super tall never got built.  It was an ugly design.  Key Tower has aged much more gracefully.

Edited by Terdolph

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1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

I hope so. The mere thought of them going to the burbs makes me ill

Any Chance of building on that sliver of a parcel next to where their mural is.

The had a proposal there 20 years ago. It was a nice building proposal.

 

I am sure someone can find that proposal and post it.

I think that parcel is now too small.

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58 minutes ago, 3231 said:

FWIW    Sherwin WIlliams put a few million dollars into repairing the bulkheads next to the Breen R&D center in that past couple of years. 

 

They also spent at least $740,000 to renovate 4770-4780 Hinckley Industrial Parkway as a temporary flex office space.

 

33 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

Any chances this gets built in the Scranton Peninsula Thunderbird development? 

 

Anything is possible. Or at least that's what SHW wants RFP respondents to think.

 

BTW, source just called and said that the RFP is being fast-tracked by SHW. They want it in front of development teams by the end of the year.

 

9 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Any Chance of building on that sliver of a parcel next to where their mural is.

The had a proposal there 20 years ago. It was a nice building proposal.

 

I am sure someone can find that proposal and post it.

I think that parcel is now too small.

 

Hard to believe this one is already 30 years old. By itself, it's way too small, but not if SHW keeps its presence in Landmark....

 

Gateway+at+Landmark-crop1.jpg


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Sherwin-Williams, if you are reading this, please PLEASE put a shiny new skyscraper downtown. Cleveland will forever love you!!

Edited by jbee1982

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Good God I hope hope hope they build a massive skyscaper on the Jacobs Lot......but my question is now that everyone has read Clevelands proposal to Amazon, how aggressive will SW be in getting concessions and tax breaks?  Were talking keeping 4-6,000 jobs downtown, and the City has laid out what they were willing to give to a massive employer

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As KJP mentioned above, an interesting possibility is the old Tower City Phase II site, essentially the parking lot and riverfront just below Tower City. This could meld seamlessly with SW's existing research facility and you have to think Rock Ventures would be a very willing partner. The site might be more expensive to develop, but if Rock Ventures can capture some of the benefits through Tower City viability, they might make up some of the difference in pricing.

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^^Good point. I think with Amazon the city was showing major employers what it may be willing to do in order to keep or draw employment. 

 

Having said that, I hope that they build on Jacob's lot, but will expect them to move to the suburbs- that way I'm not disappointed. 

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

They also spent at least $740,000 to renovate 4770-4780 Hinckley Industrial Parkway as a temporary flex office space.

 

 

Anything is possible. Or at least that's what SHW wants RFP respondents to think.

 

BTW, source just called and said that the RFP is being fast-tracked by SHW. They want it in front of development teams by the end of the year.

 

 

Hard to believe this one is already 30 years old. By itself, it's way too small, but not if SHW keeps its presence in Landmark....

 

Gateway+at+Landmark-crop1.jpg

Add 25 floors to this. Would make a dramatic “gateway”. Combined with Nucleus.....but yeah, PS site definitely preferred. Just please no suburbs. They might as well move to Tennessee.

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3 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

^^Good point. I think with Amazon the city was showing major employers what it may be willing to do in order to keep or draw employment. 

 

Having said that, I hope that they build on Jacob's lot, but will expect them to move to the suburbs- that way I'm not disappointed. 

 

This is what I was thinking. There's plenty of room between Jacob's lot, other lots nearby in Warehouse District, and the flats for SW or (any company) to build a nice campus of buildings. There's so much empty land in our urban core. If SW completely left the Landmark buildings, I don't think it would take long to sell them? They'd make great apartments or even more offices.

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@KJP getting a little bit of love

 

A new headquarters for Cleveland paint giant Sherwin-Williams?

 

Paint giant Sherwin-Williams could be considering a new headquarters, as space grows tight in the Cleveland offices.

 

Ken Prendergrast of NEOTrans, an economic development and transportation blog, reported multiple sources saying that Sherwin Williams officials are preparing a request for proposals to build a new headquarters.

 

The company has no comment, Sherwin-Williams Director of Corporate Communications Mike Conway told cleveland.com Tuesday morning.

 

Sherwin-Williams’ headquarters are on Prospect Avenue, near Tower City and across from the Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse. You might be familiar with the giant banner featuring a mosaic of Cleveland faces in the shape of one of the city’s iconic “Guardians of Traffic" statues (which replaced the giant LeBron James banner when he left the Cavs).

 

The company houses its research and development facilities nearby, at the Breen Technology Center on Canal Road in the Flats.

 

NEOTrans did not report a specific target location for the headquarters. Prendergrast wrote that sources say “everything is on the table" and that a request for proposals is expected by year’s end. He has written about a potential move earlier this year, as well as in 2018.

 

More here:

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/05/a-new-headquarters-for-cleveland-paint-giant-sherwin-williams.html

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Well, "No comment" is better than "He's full of sh!t"..... 😄

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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20 hours ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said:

Hard to see why a company would want to move to the suburbs today, if part of the reason for building a new headquarters and R&D center is to attract top talent.  As the article mentions, Eaton made a move that was against the trend back into the urban core.  SWH would be wise to find a solution in the city, if possible

 

I figured Eaton would regret their move to the suburbs.  It was totally backward thinking and it has and likely will continue to cost the company little by little as they lose and can't attract top talent.  I think and hope that Eaton will be the last big exodus to the suburbs.  Progressive's decision to move their creative talent back into downtown is an excellent example of this dynamic.  A vibrant urban environment is so much more conducive to corporate success in the 21st century knowledge-based economy, versus an office park.  Especially in the midwest where the weather can't attract talent, so what these cities can still offer is a fun dynamic livable urban environment filled with amenities.  Young top talent does not want to be in the suburbs living the Office Space life and getting lunch at Chotchkie's every day.  

Edited by NYC Boomerang
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33 minutes ago, NYC Boomerang said:

 

I figured Eaton would regret their move to the suburbs.  It was totally backward thinking and it has and likely will continue to cost the company little by little as they lose and can't attract top talent.  I think and hope that Eaton will be the last big exodus to the suburbs.  Progressive's decision to move their creative talent back into downtown is an excellent example of this dynamic.  A vibrant urban environment is so much more conducive to corporate success in the 21st century knowledge-based economy, versus an office park.  Especially in the midwest where the weather can't attract talent, so what these cities can still offer is a fun dynamic livable urban environment filled with amenities.  Young top talent does not want to be in the suburbs living the Office Space life and getting lunch at Chotchkie's every day.  

I would love to hear more about that. I know it was a footnote in KJP’s larger story but I would love to hear more about Eaton regretting their move to the suburbs. It was dumb when they did it and it’s dumb now. At this point though, the question is what could they do about it? I do hope though that SHW sees that and doesn’t make the same mistake

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KJP--great job!  The Plain Dealer is covering SW based on your scoop and journalistic sleuthing!

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Thanks. I'd still like to get my hands on the SHW HQ rendering from 2015 or so. The person who had it but can't seem to find it among old e-mails said the tower was 900 feet tall and twisted near the top (see below for examples). Pretty bold for a conservative company like SHW! Also interesting is that it showed another building, perhaps about 600 feet tall, right next to it. The source had no idea what that building was for. Perhaps it was the proposed Weston tower on the SE corner of the Superblock?? So.... I'll make the same offer to anyone as I did to the source that had it but can't find it -- if you send it to me at KJPrendergast@cox.net, I'll publish only a printscreen version of it so that the digital signature stops with me. And, I'll buy you lunch too. 🙂

 

twisted-towers%25255B4%25255D.jpg?imgmax

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Wow. Not sure if I like any of those, though the 2nd one would be good for the Cleveland Twist Drill company if they were still around by that name. I guess the third one is kind of interesting.  That said, I'm all for something along these lines--we need some new interesting buidling designs and/or color in our skyline.

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4 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

I would love to hear more about that. I know it was a footnote in KJP’s larger story but I would love to hear more about Eaton regretting their move to the suburbs. It was dumb when they did it and it’s dumb now. At this point though, the question is what could they do about it? I do hope though that SHW sees that and doesn’t make the same mistake

 

Likewise.  I doubt they can do anything about it at a reasonable cost.  I have to imagine they are committed to that site long-term.  I'm sure it's a beautiful building with appealing public subsidies and free parking.  But that's the short-term view that Eaton chose to take.  An option that appealed to senior management and short-term-minded shareholders, at the expense of young talent and long-term shareholder value. 

 

The funny/sad thing is that Mayor Jackson and city government always get the blame for what happened (they get blamed when they don't give away enough subsidies and get blamed when they give away "too many" subsidies (Nucleus)).  Eaton never gets any heat.  I think the City of Cleveland may be getting the last laugh.  Obviously, it would have been best for both sides if Eaton stayed in the city.  

 

I think one reason why Cleveland has lagged other rust-belt cities economically is the lack of corporate vision and corporate loyalty to the urban core.  So many of these corporations who fled to the burbs succumbed to selfishness and short-term shareholder value accretion.  There is a deep-seated mistrust between city government and the corporate world in Cleveland that rivals any other city (and there should be blame given on both sides).  This intertwines in with the whole regionalism question and Greater Cleveland's deep divisions and unwillingness to work together for the greater good of all parties.  As a result, not only does the general populous suffer but corporations suffer as well.  If we can't work together to compete as effectively as possible, there will be no rising tides.  

 

Eaton is in the past.  We need to move on and focus on SW and others.  SW certainly seems to be much more civic-minded, conscientious and cautiously forward-thinking.  Let's hope that mentality wins out and raises the tide for all of us.     

Edited by NYC Boomerang
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^ woah re that skyline render! ok --- and hail to the yes with the sizing, but i hope it would be a more creative tower than that lol.

 

i know everyone wants the public square site and of course sw is probably the perfect company for it, but alternatively i would be happy to see the area behind/below tower city built way up and down to the river. it's a tough to work with site and any buildings would be lower-rise, but perhaps working with dan gilbert it could be very uniquely attractive. i think we had some renders at one point, for the casino phase two i guess, that were pretty blah, but it was the right idea and in the ballpark of what could be done with redevelopment around there.

 

regardless, for now its great news they are steadily moving forward with consolidation, expansion and a new hq.

Edited by mrnyc

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An e-mail was sent to all SHW departments heads/managers today, saying if any media asks you about SHW HQ/R&D moving to new facilities, please do not comment.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Damn KJP you got them in a tizzy. Not sure how much pull your blog has or this forum, but hopefully they see that there are very interested people in improving our city. They have about 3,000 employees Downtown, another roughly 1,000 throughout the metro area, and how many in Minneapolis (at Valspar)? Really, they could feasibly consolidate everything Downtown into more than just one skyscraper?

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23 minutes ago, Cleveland Trust said:

 

So many in the news media are either overworked or lazy. There's often no in-between. Either way, they don't go out and find news. They either let it to come to them or they quote/plagiarize each other. The latter is when it gets to be an echo chamber/journalistic incest. Having worked in a newsroom, I know how busy things can be. You want to go dig for news when you get a tip, but there's so many news events coming at you that you don't have time to dig. It worse in broadcast media. My sister worked at WKYC and the reporters there would sift through the PD each morning and Sun Newspapers on Thursdays to look for stories. It's called "rip and read" and it's appalling. I'm fortunate that I have time to dig. And the desire to do it.

 

EDIT: sorry, I didn't mean to get us off track into a media discussion. I'll bring it back to SHW -- here's how it probably went in the PD newsroom yesterday/today.... An editor saw my story, and told a reporter to call Mike Conway at Sherwin-Williams for comment. The editor probably said, if Mike denies it, don't bother writing anything. Mike told the reporter "no comment." So the reporter writes story.

Edited by KJP
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

An e-mail was sent to all SHW departments heads/managers today, saying if any media asks you about SHW HQ/R&D moving to new facilities, please do not comment.

Is there a reason for the secrecy 

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I think it would be strange for a state constitutionally mandated site for a casino to get an hq if that is one of the sites. 

 

To me this throws a whole bunch of things into the mix.  They really should be working with the city and county too since they are an important and growing piece on the moving chess board of downtown CLE.  

  RTA, with the rapid rail lines alongside and potentially below SW should be part of a discussion.   How many more large buildings are in the works downtown?  Does that change the economics of creating the waterfront line loop?

 

 Some serious urban planning needs to be happening right now in the CLE. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, KJP said:

Well, "No comment" is better than "He's full of sh!t"..... 😄

True, but it's still ''no comment''... 🙂

 

Edited by Oxford19

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1 minute ago, Oxford19 said:

True, but it's still ''no comment''...

 

No comment in the media biz means "there's something there but we can't/won't talk about it."


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Just now, KJP said:

 

No comment in the media biz means "there's something there but we can't/won't talk about it."

of course it does, it was a joke (hence the smiley face)...but, it's out there again that SW is looking for a new headquarters.  We've been reminded of this headquarters search since the late '80s, then in about 2016 the new headquarters announcement that didn't happen, so we're back in suspense mode again in 2019.

 

The real issue is downtown or suburbs.  Hoping its downtown on the Square with a large skyscraper presence, yet this being Cleveland, it could still go to the 'burbs.  It's on the table, not off the table.

 

Given the momentum of 2019 downtown Cleveland, one would expect any SW headquarters building to be downtown.  But the suburbs still call...

Edited by Oxford19

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