Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

[inlovewithCLE]

I trust those with actual sources and not scared of our own shadow speculation, so until I hear something concerning from those here that we KNOW are plugged in, I’m ok

[GISguy]

I respectfully ask to have this thread locked lol

[inlovewithCLE]

@KJP what are you hearing

[WindyBuckeye]

19 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I still think strong negotiations are in play with other cities therefore.  If they were sold in Cleveland, they could say that by months end and put employees and politicians minds at ease.  They could then spend the next couple months thereafter deciding on a NE Ohio location.

Or they want to announce the exact location of the new HQ at one point and don’t want to have piecemeal announcements? Why does it have to be negotiations with other cities and not negotiations with property owners and the four sites in Cleveland. Ugh 

 

 

[LlamaLawyer]

Quote

And we owe it to our employees to put them in a better environment than they're working in right now. And we look at the retention of these terrific people, we need to make this move.

 

If retention is a big goal, I would think downtown Cleveland is the preference location by far.

[troeros]

13 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

I trust those with actual sources and not scared of our own shadow speculation, so until I hear something concerning from those here that we KNOW are plugged in, I’m ok

 

Until ground is breaking don't believe anything or anyone. 

[Htsguy]

15 minutes ago, Zyrokai said:

Yeah.....I think I'm in agreement that Cleveland isn't a lock. Let's hope they truly don't leave, but if I had to guess, I'd say there's a good chance they don't stay, as well. 

 

And that would be so incredibly sad

Well since you are so good as "guessing" where are they moving too?

[marty15]

10 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

 

If retention is a big goal, I would think downtown Cleveland is the preference location by far.

Yeah, 3000-4000 people trying to sell their homes at the same time probably wouldn’t be good for morale, and then competing against the same people in their new, likely more expensive market for a new home.

Edited October 23, 2019 by marty15

[PaxtonMarley]

3 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Well since you are so good as "guessing" where are they moving too?

 

Oh I don't know "Atlanta, Dallas, Charlotte, or perhaps Mars."

[WindyBuckeye]

6 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Until ground is breaking don't believe anything or anyone. 

Good ole Debbie 

[brtshrcegr]

32 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

 

If retention is a big goal, I would think downtown Cleveland is the preference location by far.

Correct. I think Morikis’s comments, and the article as a whole, should be seen as reassuring. At the very least, it doesn’t  introduce any additional doubt.  He used very employee forward language and demonstrated concern over the costs that will be involved in a new HQS.  Not the talk of someone about to embark on a vanity-driven disembarkation for the Sun Belt. 

 

If you don’t have access to the Crain’s article, I suggest you try and find another outlet that describes the earnings call. Without actually reading the source material, you shouldn’t get in the typical UO-frenzy that a longer timeline than we expected/speculated on this board for announcing the location means doom and gloom. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by brtshrcegr

[Down_with_Ctown]

7 hours ago, NewtoCLE said:

 

I keep saying it: we have to disregard any article like this that is nothing but lazy, click-bait journalism that feeds into the 'sound-bite industrial complex' that apathetic reporters perpetuate. John Boyd is clearly enjoying his moment here as a 'go-to' source for something in which he is utterly unqualified to comment on.  He might be a corporate relocation expert but he is offering completely insipid and generalized commentary that ignores any appreciation for the local context. Please make me stop saying this over and over again. Boyd is talking but he isn't saying anything. He is saying just enough to sound somewhat knowledgable; however, his rap appears to be a certain type of BS artistry that is good enough to get quoted because it sounds somewhat informed to the local reporter whose only motivation is filing the story before deadline and then moving onto the next thing. This is journalism now. They do *just enough* but never more. And God forbid they ever ask an informed follow-up question (i.e. "You keep citing lack of suitable air service at Hopkins compared to east coast hubs yet SHW and dozens of other legacy Fortune 1000 companies appear to be doing just fine despite their presence in Northeast and central Ohio. This, coupled with increasing passenger numbers at Hopkins and news of major capital improvements, seems to suggest there is only positive momentum in this regard. Care to comment?" )

 

Wanna know why there aren't more journalists like @KJP in Cleveland or other markets? Because it is difficult. It is difficult to be a good writer. It is difficult to cultivate sources. That takes years of relationship building and trust. Most of these local reporters are not here that long nor do the majority of them possess the type of doggedness and inherent knack for open-source investigation that really can cut into the story behind the story. This is also why you see a lot of journalists filing stories that offer no fidelity beyond what was spoon fed to them via a corporate press release.

 

i don't want this thread to be locked. No more threads on John Boyd. We know his motivation and the motivation of reporters who go to him for quotes.

 

So let's ignore him and wait. I am crossing my fingers for an announcement by the end of next week (per KJP). Hoping for a beautiful 60+ story high rise in PS. Stay positive and don't let lazy click-bait journalism get us down. It is exactly what they want because they want you to keep returning to their stupid site.

 

 

Good analysis of the facts on the ground, and an even better analysis of journalism today.  I get why good reporting is hard to find, especially with traditional media companies facing so many financial headwinds.  So it's no surprise that The Plain Dealer and cleveland.com don't have an "inside source" on the SHW HQ negotiations.  What's not excusable, though, is cle.com and WKYC being such poor aggregators of other people's work.  I'm just a lowly consumer of news with no working knowledge of how a newsroom works, but it takes me less than 5 minutes to read KJP's blog post from earlier this month and Boyd's half-baked (and regurgitated) stuff and I can already tell you which article is better sourced and more reliable.  Scene magazine isn't always the most reliable or consistent news source in NEO, but give them credit on this story, at least.  They're far better at linking to content than cle.com and WKYC have been.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Down_with_Ctown

[inlovewithCLE]

26 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Until ground is breaking don't believe anything or anyone. 

Keep that same energy when your skepticism ends up being proven wrong

[KJP]

30 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

@KJP what are you hearing

 

What I've said so far. To my knowledge, the only thing that's changed is the timeline of a possible announcement. There was an event last week hosted in Cleveland by commercial real estate broker Colliers. All of the big boys were there, including firms and the top principals at those firms who are working on the SHW HQ project. Several of them stood up an made comments to the audience. Two of them, among their overall comments, made jokes about SHW moving to Minneapolis. Thankfully, most of the audience understood those were jokes.

[marty15]

Quarterly report shows the Cleveland operation is a well oiled machine.

 

 

The Sherwin-Williams Company Reports 2019 Third Quarter Financial Results

October 22, 2019, 11:00 AM UTC

CLEVELAND, Oct. 22, 2019 /PRNewswire/ --

 

•Consolidated net sales increased 2.9% in the quarter to $4.87 billion

•Net sales from stores in U.S. and Canada open more than twelve calendar months increased 8.1% in the quarter

•Diluted net income per share increased to $6.16per share in the quarter compared to $3.72 per share in the third quarter 2018

•Third quarter 2019 includes a benefit from the resolution of the California public nuisance litigation, which increased earnings per share $.28, and charges for acquisition-related costs of $.77 per share; third quarter 2018 included charges for the California litigation and acquisition-related costs of $1.09 and $.87 per share, respectively

•Excluding acquisition-related costs and other non-operating expenses, diluted net income per share increased to $6.65 per share in the quarter versus $5.68 per share in the third quarter 2018 on a comparable basis

Adjusted Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization (EBITDA) increased 11.8% in the quarter to $919.3 million, or 18.9% of sales

•Increasing FY19 adjusted EPS guidance to $20.90to $21.30 per share, excluding acquisition-related costs and other non-operating expenses, versus $18.53 per share on a comparable basis in FY18

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/sherwin-williams-company-reports-2019-110000682.html

 

 

[KJP]

5 minutes ago, marty15 said:

The Sherwin-Williams Company Reports 2019 Third Quarter Financial Results

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/sherwin-williams-company-reports-2019-110000682.html

 

 

Note also that long-term debt is down to 8,043,030 and shareholders' equity is up to $4,022,860. That's a 2:1 ratio, which was attained three months ahead of the pace SHW had been on until spring of this year. SHW could achieve a 1:1 ratio by the end of 2021 -- a full year ahead of expectations. 

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/03/new-sherwin-williams-hq-plans-may-stir.html

 

[marty15]

I see all the misdirection as a way for CEO Morikis to control the narrative. I’m certain he’s been bothered by @KJP’s investigative reporting and leaks from the C-suite. These people have egos ya know and the need to show they’re in control of the situation.  sized egos.

[simplythis]

FWIW  -   Let's say that PS/Weston was option 1 and close to being a done deal 

and thus the end of October announcement.

 

However,    Let's say the county really wants PS for the JC    AND

Let's say that Gilbert/Bedrock is sitting on land they promised for Casino Phase 2

gives SHW a much better offer than Jacobs/Wsston  AND

let's say the county gives SHW an even much better offer to go the Bedrock

River Front site.

 

This could be why the extra months is needed to make an announcement. 

 

In this scenario Cuyahoga county gets PS fo the JC. Gilbert saves face with Cuyahoga County voters As

He has NO INTENTION of Building Casino Phase 2.

 

We get the SHW Campus on a different site

and we get PS for the JC.

Would everyone be happy with this?

 

KJP    - Is this possible.

 

 

[KJP]

Sure, anything is possible. Likely? Nah. The extra time could be good news, however.

[MikeyB440]

Just now, KJP said:

Sure, anything is possible. Likely? Nah. The extra time could be good news, however.

Mind to elaborate? Haha

[inlovewithCLE]

Don’t tease us! Haha

[KJP]

2 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Don’t tease us! Haha

 

Nah, it's just my thinking in relation to trying to work something out with the county.

 

Now....a tease would be me saying that two companies are moving their HQs downtown, bringing 900 jobs now and growing to 1,800+ in a few years. THAT would be a tease.

Edited October 23, 2019 by KJP

[MikeyB440]

3 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Nah, it's just my thinking in relation to trying to work something out with the county.

 

Now....a tease would be me saying that two companies are moving their HQs downtown, bringing 900 jobs now and growing to 1,800+ in a few years. THAT would be a tease.

That would be a correct statement! If this would be to theoretically happen, would these companies be from NE Ohio or outside the region?

[marty15]

1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

Nah, it's just my thinking in relation to trying to work something out with the county.

Probably working on a collaborative mega twin 60 story tower complex. Or a super tall where the Justice Center takes the first 30 floors and SHW takes the top 50 floors

[Frmr CLEder]

I think the delay is more an issue of a lot of moving pieces to bring this process to closure: 

1. There are several parcels in play

2.  Cuyahoga County wants to deliver their contributors a JC close to the courts (This one still burns me). It could also involve multiple sites.

3.  There are multiple land owners for the preferred sites, each with their own special interests

 

If there was a single landowner and the County facilitated the process, instead of obstructing it, we probably would have an answer sooner.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Frmr CLEder

[richNcincy]

Troeros has been banned from this thread.  His behavior did not add to the discussion.

[cfdwarrior]

So Fox 8 finally jumped on the Boyd bandwagon..  https://fox8.com/2019/10/24/what-will-it-take-to-keep-sherwin-williams-in-cleveland/

[GISguy]

At least Fox added this caveat: 

 

[CLE_Millennial]

I just find it ridiculous that anyone takes him seriously. His company is based around large companies moving cities. Don't you think he's gonna be a little biased?

[cfdwarrior]

I am wondering if they didn't mention Ken at his request or if they left his name out on their own..."local blogger"

 

[Htsguy]

Why don't we all ignore him so this thread doesn't take another inevitable off topic downward spiral courtesy  of our friends in Columbus and Cincinnati so the thread is not locked again.

[KJP]

2 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

I am wondering if they didn't mention Ken at his request or if they left his name out on their own..."local blogger"

 

 

Hey, at least give me a link in that story, man!!

[PittsburgoDelendaEst]

On 10/23/2019 at 5:20 PM, simplythis said:

... Let's say the county really wants PS for the JC    AND

Let's say that Gilbert/Bedrock is sitting on land they promised for Casino Phase 2

gives SHW a much better offer than Jacobs/Wsston  AND

let's say the county gives SHW an even much better offer to go the Bedrock

River Front site.

 

... 

 

 

We get the SHW Campus on a different site

and we get PS for the JC.

Would everyone be happy with this?

 

 

 

 

As @w28th mentioned upthread, I find this outcome suboptimal as it simply relocates the parking lot district a block, assuming a teardown of the existing justice center complex and no plan for what replaces it. 

[mrnyc]

^ yeah its not horrible, but no way is it optimal. while its nice to have two major developments on deck, ps is the front porch of the city and the best should go there.

 

there is no way a public facility will look anywhere near as good as a major private hq development these days.

 

i sure wouldn't bet on it.

 

the city and county should strongly promote and roll out the red carpet for sw to get the jacobs lot. 

 

or where ever the heck they want. dang. to quote napoleon dynamite. ha.

 

 

[Mov2Ohio]

39 minutes ago, PittsburgoDelendaEst said:

 

As @w28th mentioned upthread, I find this outcome suboptimal as it simply relocates the parking lot district a block, assuming a teardown of the existing justice center complex and no plan for what replaces it. 

Make it convention center expansion and another convention Hotel, the Justice Center Site I mean.

[Frmr CLEder]

Here's the ultimate question...

 

Does the County and the City really want a jailhouse on Public Square?

 

It is a much more suitable site for a corporate HQ, similar to Sohio (BP) and Society for Savings (Key Bank). 

 

If the answer is yes, the citizenry needs to clean house during the next election. 

[marty15]

5 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Here's the ultimate question...

 

Does the County and the City really want a jailhouse on Public Square?

 

It is a much more suitable site for a corporate HQ, similar to Sohio (BP) and Society for Savings (Key Bank). 

 

If the answer is yes, the citizenry needs to clean house during the next election. 

I was under the assumption that the jail portion would be located outside of downtown. 

[Frmr CLEder]

Jailhouse, courthouse...neither is a desirable amenity nor an asset on PS.

[KJP]

Most "town squares" in Ohio have courthouses on them.

 

EDIT: so did Cleveland's Public Square for most of its history.

Edited October 25, 2019 by KJP

[marty15]

3 minutes ago, KJP said:

Most "town squares" in Ohio have courthouses on them.

 

EDIT: so did Cleveland's Public Square for most of its history.

Chardon, Medina, Elyria, Painesville....

[PaxtonMarley]

Is there any real possibility that Public Square or the Weston lots would be in play for the new justice center?  Looking online, the only real discussion about that seems to be...here.

Even if SHW takes its talents to South Beach, I don't see this critical real estate going to the same folks we all met in Season 3 of Serial.

Edited October 25, 2019 by PaxtonMarley

[YABO713]

19 minutes ago, KJP said:

Most "town squares" in Ohio have courthouses on them.

 

EDIT: so did Cleveland's Public Square for most of its history.

 

Ahhhh... back when government spent its money on beautiful buildings!

 

Maybe we could add the JC to the mall? Probably no room though

[Enginerd]

36 minutes ago, KJP said:

Most "town squares" in Ohio have courthouses on them.

 

EDIT: so did Cleveland's Public Square for most of its history.

isn’t there currently a US courthouse on Public Square?

[YABO713]

2 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

isn’t there currently a US courthouse on Public Square?

 

Yeah - Metzenbaum is a federal bankruptcy court

[ydard]

4 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

isn’t there currently a US courthouse on Public Square?

There sure is.  It houses the bankruptcy court.  The tower has U.S. District Court.

[Sapper Daddy]

On 10/23/2019 at 5:38 PM, KJP said:

 

Nah, it's just my thinking in relation to trying to work something out with the county.

 

Now....a tease would be me saying that two companies are moving their HQs downtown, bringing 900 jobs now and growing to 1,800+ in a few years. THAT would be a tease.

Can we get a seeds and sprouts

[KJP]

1 hour ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Can we get a seeds and sprouts

 

I'm trying to get info for both topics (JC/SHW on Jacobs/Weston and an article about the two companies' HQs). The latter is more likely than the former, but is still probably a week away -- unless another media outlet beats me to it.

[Frmr CLEder]

5 hours ago, KJP said:

Most "town squares" in Ohio have courthouses on them.

 

EDIT: so did Cleveland's Public Square for most of its history.

Are we referring to towns or cities? If that's the look the city and county wants, then place it within the Burnham Group's Plan.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Frmr CLEder

[BradforPres2040]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:03 PM, KJP said:

Most "town squares" in Ohio have courthouses on them.

 

EDIT: so did Cleveland's Public Square for most of its history.

It still does. The Federal Bankruptcy Court is on Public Square. The name itself implies that its the location of public oriented uses. 

[nayrmot]

On 10/25/2019 at 4:37 PM, KJP said:

 

I'm trying to get info for both topics (JC/SHW on Jacobs/Weston and an article about the two companies' HQs). The latter is more likely than the former, but is still probably a week away -- unless another media outlet beats me to it.

@KJP - If SHW or JC is being built at the Jacobs site, why did the city just replace the sidewalks this summer and they just repaved the Jacobs parking lot?