Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

[tastybunns]

Who knows, they may be looking at Weston's Superblock too. If they aint using it may as well develop those lots right?

[ASPhotoman]

Something like this would look great....

 

 

[CLE_Millennial]

My god, looking down Euclid would be so different..

[Pugu]

2 minutes ago, CLE_Millennial said:

My god, looking down Euclid would be so different..

 

also--and that image doesn't show it---the parking lot next to the City Club bldg could be filled in.

[simplythis]

OMG - The thread name changed to Sherwin Williams new headquarters from Jacob's public square lot

[Cleburger]

Just now, simplythis said:

OMG - The thread name changed to Sherwin Williams new headquarters from Jacob's public square lot

That must mean IT IS TRUE!  

[MyPhoneDead]

Just looking for people's opinions but what lots do you think would be the most impactful to build, Weston or Jacob's? I personally would love either one but you don't have a chance to build a super tall or a skyscraper often and the Jacobs lot sits across from 3 so it's only right to build. As long as you include something on the ground floor that creates pedestrian activity.

Edited August 26, 2019 by MyPhoneDead
Typo's

[Oldmanladyluck]

I'm 36 and this is the 2nd chance Cleveland has to Finish The Square in my lifetime (the first being the Ameritrust Tower), which tells how long it may be before the chance comes along again.  As much as I would love for the Parking Lot District to be filled, a new headquarters on the Jacobs Lot could produce spin-off onto the Weston lots.  I don't know if the same could be said the other way around.  

[MyPhoneDead]

1 minute ago, Terdolph said:

Weston..

 

Definitely Weston.

Care to share your reasoning?

[simplythis]

3 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

I'm 36 and this is the 2nd chance Cleveland has to Finish The Square in my lifetime (the first being the Ameritrust Tower), which tells how long it may be before the chance comes along again.  As much as I would love for the Parking Lot District to be filled, a new headquarters on the Jacobs Lot could produce spin-off onto the Weston lots.  I don't know if the same could be said the other way around.  

I'm 65 and I am still waiting for Anything. A lot of disappointments in my time. 

I'll take Jacob's lot.

[MyPhoneDead]

Also, I wonder what the Landmark building will turn into once it empties out. Will they convert it to apartments, lease it to someone else? I think apartments would be the best thing and with how many new high rises are getting built downtown and throughout the city, the empty lot can finally be filled next to landmark lol.

[KJP]

7 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

I'm 36 and this is the 2nd chance Cleveland has to Finish The Square in my lifetime (the first being the Ameritrust Tower), which tells how long it may be before the chance comes along again.  As much as I would love for the Parking Lot District to be filled, a new headquarters on the Jacobs Lot could produce spin-off onto the Weston lots.  I don't know if the same could be said the other way around.  

 

It's the third chance. SHW would have built a tower on the Jacobs Lot by now had it not acquired Valspar. I think the only thing that stops SHW now is a moderate-severe recession. But even if the Jacobs Lot isn't the site chosen by SHW, don't forget there's an even larger whale out there -- the new Justice Center. No one knows at this point where that will be built either, but between the two projects, there's more than 4 million square feet of new construction on the horizon or just beyond.

[RE Developer In Training]

I was told (from a ranking member of the county) that the new justice center would likely only have several hundred cells for very short-term holdings.  The jail would be moved out of the city center. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by RE Developer In Training

[MyPhoneDead]

9 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

I did before but my post was deleted by the you-know-who so I am afraid to say why.

I mean seeing that this is no longer about the Jacobs lot and the SHW headquarters in general it should be fine.

[plinth857]

34 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Also, I wonder what the Landmark building will turn into once it empties out. Will they convert it to apartments, lease it to someone else? I think apartments would be the best thing and with how many new high rises are getting built downtown and throughout the city, the empty lot can finally be filled next to landmark lol.

 

Apartments is the likeliest candidate.  That would be a massive conversion project, and it makes me wonder what things on the interior would remain (the 8th floor restaurant, the exercise area/locker rooms, etc.).

[tastybunns]

I would be fine if they cordoned off part of the Weston lot for a showroom, sort of like an IKEA style warehouse full of paints, stains, and other varnishes.  Would be a nice touch to say the least, maybe SW will be the next "Furnishing God" of the world. They certainly have the potential.

[Pugu]

19 minutes ago, plinth857 said:

 

Apartments is the likeliest candidate.  That would be a massive conversion project, and it makes me wonder what things on the interior would remain (the 8th floor restaurant, the exercise area/locker rooms, etc.).

 

There's a restaurant on the 8th floor of the Republic/Midland Bldg (I can't call it "Landmark")?  Is it open to the public or just SW employees? If public, what's it called and is it any good? Is there a view?

[Pugu]

^I just googled "Landmark" and restaurants and there are two by that name:  one at E 54 & St. Clair and another at W 117 and Clifton.

 

https://www.landmarkbreakfast.com/location.php

https://www.landmarkcleveland.com/

[Frmr CLEder]

1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Just looking for people's opinions but what lots do you think would be the most impactful to build, Weston or Jacob's? I personally would love either one but you don't have a chance to build a super tall or a skyscraper often and the Jacobs lot sits across from 3 so it's only right to build. As long as you include something on the ground floor that creates pedestrian activity.

I think that PS has historical significance for CLE corporate HQs. The Terminal Tower for the VS brothers; Standard Oil/BP; Society Bank/Key Bank; Ameritrust/Society/Key. SW deserves to be in such a prestigious location. It is one of Cleveland's most influential corporations.

[mack34]

just thinking out loud here, but if a massive "supertall" is built on the Jacobs lot,  I'm assuming a parking garage of some sorts will also be built?  so.......Weston gets a garage with hopefully apartments or retail wrapping the outside of it?  

[KJP]

Don't forget this too. While SHW may be willing to submit a variance for exceeding the height district, they may not need to. 900 feet is a significant tower. And if there's a second building for R&D (atop parking?), that could be a 500-700-footer. This is where they could go without a variance......

 

[freethink]

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

It's the third chance. SHW would have built a tower on the Jacobs Lot by now had it not acquired Valspar. I think the only thing that stops SHW now is a moderate-severe recession. But even if the Jacobs Lot isn't the site chosen by SHW, don't forget there's an even larger whale out there -- the new Justice Center. No one knows at this point where that will be built either, but between the two projects, there's more than 4 million square feet of new construction on the horizon or just beyond.

 

Don't forget this one...

[KJP]

2 minutes ago, freethink said:

 

Don't forget this one...

 

If that was a real project, then I'm 6-foot-4, 180 pounds, with a full head of hair.

[PoshSteve]

Hey SHW, go for the variance. Now's our chance to join the prestigious 1000ft club (this is America, people don't care about meters). If I'm reading correctly Cleveland would be the 7th city to have a 1000 footer in America (NYC, Chicago, Philly, ATL, LA, SF) if including spires, or third if going by roof height (NYC and Chicago). 

 

Anyways though, I'd be happy with any height and any amount of parking lots being built over. Ideally I wonder if they could do a deal with a developer that includes Landmark being redeveloped to. Trade Landmark for a portion off the new build costs/rent. With how long its been taking 925 (I understand it being a large complicated project, which is my point) I'd be worried could see Landmark sit for awhile once they move out. A smart developer would keep sections for rent as class B space while they work on converting other sections, I'd think.

[Larry1962]

10 hours ago, ASPhotoman said:

Something like this would look great....

 

 

Nice pic! 

But shouldn't it be shown behind the 200 P.S. building and only visible if it's taller?

[CleveFan]

I’d be fine with having ASPhotoman design the actual tower!  Like most, I would love to see Cleveland get a 1000 footer. Remembering our proud history of having the country’s tallest building outside NY for many years - it would be a statement about this city’s resilience in a new century. But even something a bit taller than the Terminal Tower would be a blockbuster  - and especially with the right design,  positively change the skyline for the long-waiting-faithful and a new generation headed back to the city. 

[E Rocc]

5 hours ago, CleveFan said:

I’d be fine with having ASPhotoman design the actual tower!  Like most, I would love to see Cleveland get a 1000 footer. Remembering our proud history of having the country’s tallest building outside NY for many years - it would be a statement about this city’s resilience in a new century. But even something a bit taller than the Terminal Tower would be a blockbuster  - and especially with the right design,  positively change the skyline for the long-waiting-faithful and a new generation headed back to the city. 

 

*World's* tallest building outside NYC, for over 20 years.

[dwhershberger]

19 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

... If I'm reading correctly Cleveland would be the 7th city to have a 1000 footer in America (NYC, Chicago, Philly, ATL, LA, SF) if including spires, or third if going by roof height (NYC and Chicago). 

A minor quibble: Los Angeles' US Bank Tower has a roof at 1,018 feet, and Houston's 600 Travis St. has a roof at 1,002 feet.

Edited August 27, 2019 by dwhershberger

[ASPhotoman]

7 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

Nice pic! 

But shouldn't it be shown behind the 200 P.S. building and only visible if it's taller?

Maybe I should have placed it a little further to the right, but if you look on a map and draw a straight line from Euclid to the lot, whatever is build would be visible. The tower would have to be nearly taller than 1100ft to poke above 200 P.S. Building from that perspective.

[ASPhotoman]

6 hours ago, CleveFan said:

I’d be fine with having ASPhotoman design the actual tower!  Like most, I would love to see Cleveland get a 1000 footer. Remembering our proud history of having the country’s tallest building outside NY for many years - it would be a statement about this city’s resilience in a new century. But even something a bit taller than the Terminal Tower would be a blockbuster  - and especially with the right design,  positively change the skyline for the long-waiting-faithful and a new generation headed back to the city. 

Hey, I wouldn't mind that job. But the building in the photo I made was the Wilshire Grand Center in LA. I felt like something like that would fit in well with our skyline. Not so boxy, and modern enough to add more diversity in design for the 600+ ft buildings.

 

Also, whatever Sherwin Williams builds, it'd be almost stupid not to make some statement with color. If you check out photos of the Wilshire Grand Center at night, you can see they have LED strips that can change colors for certain occasions. 

[plinth857]

15 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

There's a restaurant on the 8th floor of the Republic/Midland Bldg (I can't call it "Landmark")?  Is it open to the public or just SW employees? If public, what's it called and is it any good? Is there a view?

 

The restaurant is for building employees only.  Probably should call it a cafeteria I guess.  I liked the food when I worked there!  The view wasn't anything great (mostly "courtyard" views).

[freefourur]

38 minutes ago, plinth857 said:

 

The restaurant is for building employees only.  Probably should call it a cafeteria I guess.  I liked the food when I worked there!  The view wasn't anything great (mostly "courtyard" views).

 

I used to go there when I worked in the TC complex.  No one really checked to see if you worked in the building.  Perhaps, it has changed. 

[plinth857]

3 minutes ago, freefourur said:

 

I used to go there when I worked in the TC complex.  No one really checked to see if you worked in the building.  Perhaps, it has changed. 

 

True, no one checks, but lately it seems like there is more security on the bottom floor to make sure you work there before you even get on the elevators.  I haven't worked there in a few years, myself.

[viscomi]

1 hour ago, ASPhotoman said:

Maybe I should have placed it a little further to the right, but if you look on a map and draw a straight line from Euclid to the lot, whatever is build would be visible. The tower would have to be nearly taller than 1100ft to poke above 200 P.S. Building from that perspective.

 

Yeah, a little to the right but not by much. 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by viscomi
This 1100 ft btw

[NR]

It would be great to have a 1,300 super tall, that would make us #5 in the country. Plus, if the R&D/parking deck could be at least 500ft or more... it would change our skyline drastically!  That may be asking for a little much, but one could hope.

[KJP]

That Sherwin-Williams article got to 1,000 clicks faster than any article I've written for NEOtrans. Some background -- there's an intentional error in the article to protect a source which I will correct as more info comes out. And readers here should also know that the few (like, two or three) CM firms that received the RFQ all have something in common... They've all built skyscrapers in Cleveland, including structures that required caissons to be dug to bedrock. A few others that have built 10-20-something-story buildings but have no experience with caissons were not sent the RFQ. I checked with sources at two of them and both say they haven't received anything. And it's not like it hasn't arrived in the mail yet. The RFQs were sent out a couple of weeks ago. I was advised not to read too much into the very small number of firms and the experience of those firms, but how could I not??

[Frmr CLEder]

15 minutes ago, KJP said:

That Sherwin-Williams article got to 1,000 clicks faster than any article I've written for NEOtrans. Some background -- there's an intentional error in the article to protect a source which I will correct as more info comes out. And readers here should also know that the few (like, two or three) CM firms that received the RFQ all have something in common... They've all built skyscrapers in Cleveland, including structures that required caissons to be dug to bedrock. A few others that have built 10-20-something-story buildings but have no experience with caissons were not sent the RFQ. I checked with sources at two of them and both say they haven't received anything. And it's not like it hasn't arrived in the mail yet. The RFQs were sent out a couple of weeks ago. I was advised not to read too much into the very small number of firms and the experience of those firms, but how could I not??

I think it says a lot about the support and enthusiasm from the community about SW's new headquarters and it's possible PS location. As always, thanks KJP for keeping us abreast of developments.

Of course, we can all help SW pay down their debt by buying SW products. Despite lots of competition, all of the paint for my new house has been SW. 

[Pugu]

^I always buy SW paints as well for the same reason!

[jeremyck01]

4 hours ago, ASPhotoman said:

Hey, I wouldn't mind that job. But the building in the photo I made was the Wilshire Grand Center in LA. I felt like something like that would fit in well with our skyline. Not so boxy, and modern enough to add more diversity in design for the 600+ ft buildings.

 

Also, whatever Sherwin Williams builds, it'd be almost stupid not to make some statement with color. If you check out photos of the Wilshire Grand Center at night, you can see they have LED strips that can change colors for certain occasions. 

 

 

I thought that that was Wilshire Grand center in your original post. I watched that being built and have been to the restaurant on the top many times. I call it the “Korean Air” building because they have their logo on the top. 

 

Its a beautiful building, if a bit skinny. It’s great to look at when it’s lit up. 

[E Rocc]

On 8/24/2019 at 4:55 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I can't believe the city center is competing with an outer ring suburb for a Fortune 500 company in this day and age. What in the world is with this region? I was researching the amount of corporations that remain in Cincinnati and it blows my mind the comparison of major jobs between us and out Sourthern brother. The amount of sprawl in this region is appalling and the possibility of Sherwin Williams moving to Brecksville just shows NEO continues to circle the drain.

 

Of course it is.   Much depends on the character of a company, its business and its priorities.   

 

Manufacturers, for example, have little or no incentive, other than perhaps tradition, to spend money on expensive office space in a dense area.   ISG, for example, had their headquarters in Richfield and we all know about Eaton, Ferro, et al.   Progressive was somewhat of a special case, it was one big issue. Peter Lewis was listening to his people and city government was listening to parking lot operators.  But usually it's a lot of smaller things.

 

The R&D center makes sense, because for a paint company we're talking about chemists and other scientific types.  They aren't known for an affinity for density, or crowds for that matter.   Valor Acres (note the acronym) makes a lot of sense there.   The HQ is going to be a matter of higher ups preferences, and ego.  If I had to bet I would bet it will be downtown, it will be spectacular, at least 1,000 feet,  and it will be somewhat insular.

 

Again, the parking guys won't be happy.   I think their influence is less that it was with White, though.

 

The people of this region don't find "sprawl" the least bit appalling.   It's important to keep that in mind when trying to make things happen.

Edited August 27, 2019 by E Rocc

[Clefan98]

51 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Of course it is.   Much depends on the character of a company, its business and its priorities.   

 

Manufacturers, for example, have little or no incentive, other than perhaps tradition, to spend money on expensive office space in a dense area.   ISG, for example, had their headquarters in Richfield and we all know about Eaton, Ferro, et al.   Progressive was somewhat of a special case, it was one big issue. Peter Lewis was listening to his people and city government was listening to parking lot operators.  But usually it's a lot of smaller things.

 

The R&D center makes sense, because for a paint company we're talking about chemists and other scientific types.  They aren't known for an affinity for density, or crowds for that matter.   Valor Acres (note the acronym) makes a lot of sense there.   The HQ is going to be a matter of higher ups preferences, and ego.  If I had to bet I would bet it will be downtown, it will be spectacular, at least 1,000 feet,  and it will be somewhat insular.

 

Again, the parking guys won't be happy.   I think their influence is less that it was with White, though.

 

The people of this region don't find "sprawl" the least bit appalling.   It's important to keep that in mind when trying to make things happen.

 

You're not a spokesperson for the "people of this region". It's important to keep that in mind.

 

If this were 1985, I'd totally agree with you, but it's not. The people you speak of who've encouraged sprawl are either dead, retired, less influential or living in Florida now. There's a lot of folks (even at the county level) working on fixing the mistakes of yesteryears.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Clefan98

[KJP]

What is with your preoccupation/opposition with density @E Rocc? If anything, density is essential for greater commercial interaction. The most successful markets (in a variety of uses of the term) exist in places with some of the greatest density. Cleveland is not that dense, so I wonder what the concern is with a density that no longer exists.

 

Specifically, I was told that the R&D facility is no more of a hazardous materials concern than a college lab, many of which are co-located in buildings with other uses like classrooms and offices. It's why the GSA wasn't concerned about locating the new federal courthouse tower across a narrow street (Canal Rd) from SHW's Breen Center.

 

While it's a broad brush, creative people tend to enjoy living and working in cities. I would think creative people would be working in the R&D facility. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by KJP

[Nickel Plate RR]

On 8/26/2019 at 1:57 PM, ASPhotoman said:

Something like this would look great....

 

 

Thanks for making this rendering! I say just submit it to Sherwin Williams.  

[mack34]

 Ummmm......I call on the labs at SW all the time.  They are filled with a variety of people from all different walks of life.  but I can tell you that many of them already live downtown and would hate being moved out to the outer burbs.  And KJP, youre correct in saying that the labs are more like college labs.  The Canal Road tech center does all of the Architectural coatings work.  So its almost all water-based or high solids chemistry.   

[Clefan98]

1 hour ago, mack34 said:

 Ummmm......I call on the labs at SW all the time.  They are filled with a variety of people from all different walks of life.  but I can tell you that many of them already live downtown and would hate being moved out to the outer burbs.  And KJP, youre correct in saying that the labs are more like college labs.  The Canal Road tech center does all of the Architectural coatings work.  So its almost all water-based or high solids chemistry.   

 

Some of my friends even hated when they were moved from downtown to Hinckley Pkwy! I couldn't imagine the level of hate if they were placed in the outer burbs. I know my gf would be the first in line to leave SHW if they ever decide to ghost downtown.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Clefan98

[sizzlinbeef]

Just now, KJP said:

What is with your preoccupation/opposition with density @E Rocc? If anything, density is essential for greater commercial interaction. The most successful markets (in a variety of uses of the term) exist in places with some of the greatest density. Cleveland is not that dense, so I wonder what the concern is with a density that no longer exists.

 

Specifically, I was told that the R&D facility is no more of a hazardous materials concern than a college lab, many of which are co-located in buildings with other uses like classrooms and offices. It's why the GSA wasn't concerned about locating the new federal courthouse tower across a narrow street (Canal Rd) from SHW's Breen Center.

 

While it's a broad brush, creative people tend to enjoy living and working in cities. I would think creative people would be working in the R&D facility. 

The only thing his post was missing was a mention of the autistic spectrum.

Edited August 27, 2019 by sizzlinbeef

[cfdwarrior]

4 hours ago, KJP said:

While it's a broad brush

I see what you did there...

[viscomi]

I worked at Breen about a decade ago. The hazard is with the oil based coatings. You need to work under hoods to vent the fumes, else you might get light headed after sampling for a couple hours. Alkyd Oil based paint work was the worst of it though, so a pretty manageable issue in any type of facility.

 

We physically ran these tests up to corporate daily. Again that was 10 years ago so it might be a digitized process at this point. 

 

edit:

@Pugu I was using oil and alkyd interchangeably, which was confusing after I looked at it again.   

Edited August 28, 2019 by viscomi
clarification

[Pugu]

14 hours ago, viscomi said:

I worked at Breen about a decade ago. The hazard is with the oil based coatings. You need to work under hoods to vent the fumes, else you might get light headed after sampling for a couple hours. Alkyd work was the worst of it though, so a pretty managable issues in any type of facility.

 

what is Alkyd work?

[YABO713]

14 hours ago, viscomi said:

I worked at Breen about a decade ago. The hazard is with the oil based coatings. You need to work under hoods to vent the fumes, else you might get light headed after sampling for a couple hours. Alkyd work was the worst of it though, so a pretty managable issues in any type of facility.

 

We physically ran these tests up to corporate daily. Again that was 10 years ago so it might be a digitized process at this point. 

 

FWIW - I doubt they're digitized just because that would be an access target for bad actors looking to get on SHW's network. But maybe it is, I'm sure they have a bulky IT dept