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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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1 hour ago, Mendo said:

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

 

Semantics but PNC Tower was completed when I was still living down there (2016ish). I want to say it's also LEED Gold Certified, so that probably also added a good amount of money to the overall costs.

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2 hours ago, Mendo said:

The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project. Maybe that includes a bunch of infrastructure spending not needed downtown.

 

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

Wasn't this ($300M) about the cost of the Hilton?

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Cleveland.com had reported the Lumen as a $135 million dollar project (just as another frame of reference.)

Edited by CleveFan
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28 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Wasn't this ($300M) about the cost of the Hilton?

 

Close...$272 million


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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3 hours ago, Mendo said:

The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project

 

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

Exactly - Pittsburgh’s PNC Tower, begun   around 2011 - an  800,000 sq feet project  - was $400 million. In 2020, that represents $450 million dollars - so I too am a little confused about a  $300 million dollar figure for SWHQ at 1,000,000 square feet. I hope not, but maybe  the “tower”  is going to be significantly under 30 stories

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We don't know the exact cost yet, so don't get too hung up on the $$$ figure. The actual quote said over 300M.

Edited by Clefan98
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after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

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2 hours ago, mrnyc said:

after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

 

There's so much more to learn about this proposal. It won't be fully known for as much as five years from now. And that doesn't include the huge spin-off development potential.

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5 hours ago, mrnyc said:

after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

 

Forgive me, but ssp proposals?

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6 hours ago, mrnyc said:

after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

 

41 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

 

Forgive me, but ssp proposals?


He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. 

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23 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. 

 

Foster understanding. Choose kind shortenings helping imbue tacitness. Because it tells clear hints.

 

---

 

Cleveland doesn't seem to often be a subject of discourse on Sky Scraper Page, and although we are still awaiting renderings or more official embodiments of the plans, I am (somewhat) surprised it took so long to get posted there.

 

---

 

And staying even more on topic, we have seen news articles about incentives from Cleveland, Brecksville, and Cuyahoga County, but has there been any update on the State's contributions and those of JobsOhio as well if those are separate?

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6 minutes ago, marty15 said:

When you can sense desperation from your suitor...... Funny, lotsa hotels and conference spaces downtown...

 

2 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

^ That could have been an awesome HQ/Hotel tower with R&D one block away...sigh

 

Please wait to see what happens next. I keep saying that you shouldn't judge this HQ project/spinoffs until about five years from  now. And some of it much sooner. 

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 

 

Please wait to see what happens next. I keep saying that you shouldn't judge this HQ project/spinoffs until about five years from  now. And some of it much sooner. 

POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas:

 

Two apartment towers

 

One office tower

 

Several new to market restaurants and retailers

 

This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. 

 

NO GUARANTEES.

 

Most of them are in the early stages of development.

 

And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built...

Time will tell.

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Larry, you know I gotta ask...any word on the height/Sq. Feet of the office and apt. towers? A bit upthread you really had the pulse on how SW’s main tower was going to be built first with staging on the Weston lots.

Edited by Silent Matt
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10 hours ago, Silent Matt said:

Larry, you know I gotta ask...any word on the height/Sq. Feet of the office and apt. towers? A bit upthread you really had the pulse on how SW’s main tower was going to be built first with staging on the Weston lots.

The proposed apartment and office towers are in the

20-30+ story range and approximately 300,000-500,000+ sq. ft.  These are in the early stages of development and so a lot of the specs may change and some may not even be built.  And some of them will require additional partnerships to provide the required financial backing that these large projects require to be built in a relatively low rent area.  Of course IF the proposed Ohio TMUD tax credit law is passed that will be very helpful too!

Edited by Larry1962
Typos and more details
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7 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas:

 

Two apartment towers

 

One office tower

 

Several new to market restaurants and retailers

 

This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. 

 

NO GUARANTEES.

 

Most of them are in the early stages of development.

 

And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built...

Time will tell.

 

Yes. That's some of it. Although I'm not familiar with who is pursuing the apartment towers.

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What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this?  Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed?

Edited by mrclifton88

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JFC, I'm excited! Even if it takes 10 years to pan out our parking lot crater filled downtown is hopefully a thing of the past! It really seems like the incentive packages will really pay off (at least in Cleveland vs Brecksville). I'm really looking forward to the progress of this- just knowing it's going to get built is an amazing feeling unlike some other projects that keep getting dangled out there (*cough cough* NuCLEus). 

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2 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this?  Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed?

 

I would think you'll hear some details about some of this stuff before spring turns to summer. More might be nailed down and become public by the end of the year. As for SHW's HQ facilities, the full scale of it might not be known for 4-5 years. But we'll probably get renderings by later summer or fall on the first phase of SHW's HQ.

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5 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this?  Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed?

Some details and renderings about some of the projects that actually move forward might become public by late summer or maybe by the end of the year.  Plus I know that KJP and some other well connected UO members know A LOT MORE THAN I DO...

Edited by Larry1962
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36 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

Some details and renderings about some of the projects that actually move forward might become public by late summer or maybe by the end of the year.  Plus I know that KJP and some other well connected UO members know A LOT MORE THEN I DO...

I wish I was connected..

 

A9CC6ED2-188F-40BC-9F48-DE12AF8DF362.gif

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On 2/26/2020 at 7:47 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 


He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. 

 

 

lol -- worse i assumed everyone on here is already on skyscaperpages and skyscrapercity.

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On 2/26/2020 at 8:15 PM, infrafreak said:

 

Cleveland doesn't seem to often be a subject of discourse on Sky Scraper Page, and although we are still awaiting renderings or more official embodiments of the plans, I am (somewhat) surprised it took so long to get posted there.

 

 

 

exactly. i was very surprised. it was long overdue.

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1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

lol -- worse i assumed everyone on here is already on skyscaperpages and skyscrapercity.


That’s the thing - I was aware of skyscraper page and I still didn’t know what you were talking about. (I even googled “ssp” and “ssp Sherwin” with no luck.)  I was glad @ExPatClevGuy asked for clarification. And I appreciated reading through the comments over there once @infrafreak posted the link above.

Thank you for starting that thread. It was interesting to see them go through the same up and downs over the course of 20 some comments as we’ve gone through over hundreds of comments. 

Edited by Boomerang_Brian
Added my google attempt
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On 2/8/2020 at 8:22 AM, freethink said:

 

Getting a little bit of an entitled mindset in the Metroplex, aren't they?  🙂

The reason is mentioned in passing:  they are picking up a lot of businesses sick of San Francisco's ways.   What's interesting is even I would think those places would go to Austin, not Dallas.

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33 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:


That’s the thing - I was aware of skyscraper page and I still didn’t know what you were talking about. I was glad @ExPatClevGuy asked for clarification. And I appreciated reading through the comments over there once @infrafreak posted the link above. 
 

Thank you for starting that thread. It was interesting to see them go through the same up and downs over the course of 20 some comments as we’ve gone through over hundreds of comments. 

 

LOL I am pretty sure I found out about this place from the Skyscraper Page, though it may have been Greedwatch/Bernie's Insiders/Orange and Brown Report.....

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I was maintaining the Cleveland development thread at the skyscraperpage.com forum for almost two decades but eventually the site's management let everything go to h#ll (trolls, site security, updating the software, etc.). So I decided if they aren't going to invest in the forum, I'm not going to bother spending my time there. It's still a good resource for other cities but for Cleveland, the most current info is here on UrbanOhio.

 

Back on topic, please! 🙂

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On 2/26/2020 at 11:59 PM, Larry1962 said:

POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas:

 

Two apartment towers

 

One office tower

 

Several new to market restaurants and retailers

 

This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. 

 

NO GUARANTEES.

 

Most of them are in the early stages of development.

 

And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built...

Time will tell.

I am happy but before i get excited i want to see Nucleus & 925 break ground..

KJP is anything happening in C-Bus since you last updated us on SB39

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2 hours ago, simplythis said:

I am happy but before i get excited i want to see Nucleus & 925 break ground..

KJP is anything happening in C-Bus since you last updated us on SB39

 

Nothing new to report. All sources are quiet. They may be waiting until after the primary.

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22 hours ago, MayDay said:

I was maintaining the Cleveland development thread at the skyscraperpage.com forum for almost two decades but eventually the site's management let everything go to h#ll (trolls, site security, updating the software, etc.). So I decided if they aren't going to invest in the forum, I'm not going to bother spending my time there. It's still a good resource for other cities but for Cleveland, the most current info is here on UrbanOhio.

 

Back on topic, please! 🙂

 

 

yeah they have had their ups and downs on those sites too for sure.

 

they are still a great place for other people to find out about cleveland tho. when it lacks i would just tend to steer people here to uo if they are interested in more details or more current news.

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18 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Nothing new to report. All sources are quiet. They may be waiting until after the primary.

 

Several sources responded after I posted that. So I will have an update this weekend and I'll post it in the nuCLEus thread.

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Several sources responded after I posted that. So I will have an update this weekend and I'll post it in the nuCLEus thread.

Thank you as usual for keeping us in the loop.

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Some movement on the headquarters property. Mandatory referrals for the TIF, construction grants, and job creation incentives.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2020/03062020/index.php

 

MANDATORY REFERRALS

  • Ordinance No. 285-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Mayor and the Commissioner of Purchases and Supplies to acquire and re-convey properties presently owned by the The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, located at Public Square West and the corner of Superior Avenue and West 6th Street for the purpose of entering into the chain-of-title prior to the adoption of tax increment financing legislation authorized under Section 5709.41 of the Revised Code.
  • Ordinance No. 286-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a Tax Increment Financing Agreement with The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, to provide assistance to fund the construction of a new global headquarters to be located at Public Square West and the corner of Superior Avenue and West 6th Street; to provide for payments to the Cleveland Metropolitan School District; and to declare certain improvements to real property to be a public purpose.
  • Ordinance No. 284-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack); Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a construction grant agreement with The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, to provide economic development assistance to partially finance the construction of a new global headquarters, to be located at Public Square West and the corner of Superior Avenue and West 6th Street; and authorizing any agreements necessary to implement the project.
  • Ordinance No. 287-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack); Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a Job Creation Incentive Program grant agreement with The Sherwin-Williams Company, or its designee, to facilitate the purpose and provisions of this ordinance.
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Hello KJP - I've heard varying  numbers (not from you) about the loss/gain of employees from the R&D moving to Brecksville.  The article below says there are 2,980 currently working at the corporate headquarters and another 320 in the R&D location.  If downtown and Brecksville, slit the additional 400 to be consolidated from the burbs, I'm not sure downtown is losing much at all.  In fact, I would suspect there may be a next gain when all is said and done.  Am I missing something?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

Edited by newyorker
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1 hour ago, newyorker said:

Hello KJP - I've heard varying  numbers (not from you) about the loss/gain of employees from the R&D moving to Brecksville.  The article below says there are 2,980 currently working at the corporate headquarters and another 320 in the R&D location.  If downtown and Brecksville, slit the additional 400 to be consolidated from the burbs, I'm not sure downtown is losing much at all.  In fact, I would suspect there may be a next gain when all is said and done.  Am I missing something?

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/09/sherwin-williams-looking-for-new-headquarters-company-confirms.html

 

I think those are good numbers for those two facilities (downtown HQ + R&D). Some of Warrensville's employment is office workers, as SHW's automotive group HQ is there. I've suspected, based on parking lot vehicle counts and square footage of the facility's office building, that the number of office workers at Warrensville is in the low 100s. I'm pretty sure they're all headed downtown.

 

Same thing goes for all of the sales and executive training activities which are done either at Baldwin Wallace or Case Western Reserve classrooms. They are also headed downtown.

 

What we don't yet know is what's going to happen with SHW's Hinckley Parkway office workers. There's at least 200 employees there, and possibly as much as 300. I'm not sure why SHW hasn't said anything about relocating them. Perhaps it might affect some lease or other agreement?

 

We also don't know what's happening with Valspar HQ+R&D staff, which offers at least 400 more employees. And we probably won't know until after the new downtown HQ opens or even later. Given SHW's interior/programming architect Vocon is under contract for five more years, that tells me that SHW could be looking at a multi-phase development approach to its HQ.

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