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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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14 minutes ago, TPH2 said:

 

The megablock in the Warehouse District is the first "Urban Core" overlay district that was passed by City Council a few years ago. You can read the zoning requirements here: http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Ohio/cleveland_oh/partthreelandusecode/partiiiblandusecode-zoningcode/titleviizoningcode/chapter348-formdistricts?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:cleveland_oh$anc=JD_348.05

 

I assume they would need to get a variance if they weren't able to abide by any of these.

 

Edit: The link seems to not work. I'll just link to an old tweet of mine that has images of the code:

 

So that would mean if SHW wants to build on the lots that they have to get variances if they don't want to include retail?

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14 hours ago, Potamus said:

I know the massing shown is preliminary and may not look anything like the final project, but...

You can kind of estimate the height of the main tower by comparing it to 55 PS next door.  That building is 22 stories and about 300' tall.  From the massing above the main tower looks to be much taller.  Maybe 35-40 stories and 450-500'?

 

Good eye.  I was looking at that too, but it looks to me like the main tower is in the 550-600' range, which had me surprised and excited.  It also looks like the Yellow & Red buildings are in the 250-350' range. I know it could be all smoke, but hopefully that lot get's something grand.

 

Also, I Really hope the city sticks to it's zoning requirements for street frontages with this whole development!  That's a major entry point into Downtown that has had parking craters for too long, it would be terrible to go from that to inactive walls or parking when it's finally developed.

 

I'm hoping for and expecting that best in both of these situations!!!

Edited by NR
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Just out of curiosity, is it at all possible to physically move the old stark headquarters to another parcel of land? How much would something like that cost normally?

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This has probably been covered already, but to confirm, does the HQ plan include BOTH the Weston and Jacobs lots?  Some of the press descriptions seem to make it sound like it only includes the Weston lots.  I hope it includes both.

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Just now, NYC Boomerang said:

This has probably been covered already, but to confirm, does the HQ plan include BOTH the Weston and Jacobs lots?  Some of the press descriptions seem to make it sound like it only includes the Weston lots.  I hope it includes both.

There's a map on their new website for the HQ that shows both Weston and Jacobs lot. I've posted it a page or two back. 

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Just now, ASPhotoman said:

There's a map on their new website for the HQ that shows both Weston and Jacobs lot. I've posted it a page or two back. 

yes

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5 minutes ago, NYC Boomerang said:

This has probably been covered already, but to confirm, does the HQ plan include BOTH the Weston and Jacobs lots?  Some of the press descriptions seem to make it sound like it only includes the Weston lots.  I hope it includes both.

 

Yes this has been confirmed now by both Jacobs & Weston.  

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8 minutes ago, scb0525 said:

 

Wow. And that's the government agency with the "smallest" government incentives for SHW, according to the mayor.....

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Folks, although this is off-topic, I'm posting it here as this thread has the highest visibility.

 

In case it needs to be made absolutely clear - directing profanity at another forumer in a post OR a private message is in violation of forum rules. If a forumer gets contacted by an Admin or Mod in regards to such behavior, it's probably not the best idea to have an abrasive attitude in the response to said Admin or Mod.

 

On a related note, if you see any posts by sfbob, don't bother responding. Ever. 

 

Back to your regularly scheduled Sherwin-Williams HQ thread 🙂

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But on a serious note, we should put the Brecksville R&D project in perspective.  Of course, I prefer that SHW's R&D site be downtown and anchor what could have been an awesome riverfront destination.  However, using the gray field left behind by the VA is a very acceptable second-best option.  Also, considering that Valor Acres is planned as 24-hour mixed-use development, this project should get a warmer reception.

Edited by PaxtonMarley
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34 minutes ago, freefourur said:

^ maybe they could set up a design showroom. then they could assist with paint colors.

 

Great idea.   If they had dedicated contractor parking in the garage, I'm sure it would be a very heavily shopped location.  There are always workers painting things downtown.  Sutton Hardware out on Prospect is about the closest option for them. 

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32 minutes ago, freethink said:

I have to laugh at articles like that because I still believe all this "we are looking at our options and may relocate out of the region" was always a bunch of bs despite all the hand wringing and despite the fact mine is probably a minority opinion.  Hope we learn the full true story some day but I doubt it.

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I have just been perusing this thread this morning and it kind of hit me.  This is going to sound like MR. OBVIOUS and I know we are all pretty much thinking the same, but I don't think anybody has actually come out and said it.  In a 5-6 year period Cleveland will lose 4 surface lots, two of which are huge, in our prime business district (Play House Square lot, Krenzler lot and Weston and Jacobs) which have languished for years/decades.  This is pretty remarkable for our city.  You know, this is kind of exciting.🙂

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I was just thinking about it. Is it possible since the new HQ is only going to start at 1million square ft that Sherwin-Williams Williams might initially keep the northern of the two Weston Lots just as a parking lot?  Because event if they build 30 stories with only an average of 25k a level on the Jacobs lot that means that they only have 250k sqft left for two lots that are over 6 acres. I know there is parking but still!

Edited by cle_guy90

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I suspect they'll keep some "holes" for future expansion because I don't think 1 million square feet is going to be anywhere large enough to consolidate all the SHW HQ/administrative employees here and in Minneapolis.

 

But even if 250K sf is left to spread among 5.65 +/- acres of Weston lots, there's still another 750,000-1 million sf of parking deck to be accounted for. So if it's 1 million sf of offices/parking for the Weston lots, that structure would average 4 floors high over the 5.65 acres. If it's 1.25 million sf of offices/parking, that structure would average 5 floors high over the entire Weston lots.

 

SHW might keep the NE quarter of the Weston lots as surface parking (and the Realife building) and for future expansion. But I don't think the Realife building is going to survive much longer anyway. Working on an article about that now.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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MORE

 

 

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I’m as thrilled as anyone that they’re staying, but man these big companies just can’t help themselves from going hog wild at the public trough. 

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

MORE

 

 

 

I'm just wondering if goodyear or eaton have any key markets with inferior air services....   but do what you have to do....

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49 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:


Who is Ted Carter? I don’t remember the name. 

 

And

 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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4 hours ago, marty15 said:

I’m as thrilled as anyone that they’re staying, but man these big companies just can’t help themselves from going hog wild at the public trough. 

 

At this point, given how common these kind of incentives are, wouldn't they be foolish not to?

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8 hours ago, Potamus said:

 

At this point, given how common these kind of incentives are, wouldn't they be foolish not to?

 

I'm very interested to see the 3rd party incentive analysis.  I think this project will be tremendous transformation for Cleveland and worth everything that was put forward in terms of incentives.  I'm much more bothered by the amount of incentive given to pro sports teams, the Med Mart and other boondoggles come to mind...

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10 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Cleveland’s incentive package to Sherwin-Williams would commit millions to secure Fortune 500 company for generations

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/clevelands-incentive-package-to-sherwin-williams-would-commit-millions-to-secure-fortune-500-company-for-generations.html

 

This makes so much more sense than Brecksville's offer. It doesn't seem like that big of a kick in the pants (especially with schools receiving their tax dollars), and just makes sense.

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59 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Cleveland’s incentive package to Sherwin-Williams would commit millions to secure Fortune 500 company for generations

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/clevelands-incentive-package-to-sherwin-williams-would-commit-millions-to-secure-fortune-500-company-for-generations.html


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

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3 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

That was at the earliest. 

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4 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

 

They would want their legislation to have the latest possible date so that they don;t risk losing the incentive. 

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We're all excited for retaining SW.  Is it me, or does the number for the HQ cost, continue to shrink? I thought the original cost for the combination (R&D and HQ) was $1B, then the last number was $600M for HQ, now we're at $300M.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project. Maybe that includes a bunch of infrastructure spending not needed downtown.

 

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

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47 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

 

Given the scale, I think it will be more than 3 years from ground breaking to ribbon cutting, right? 

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35 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Given the scale, I think it will be more than 3 years from ground breaking to ribbon cutting, right? 


Seems right, but I could see the incentives being finalized within a few months and plans being finalized by summer’s end.  I would think that would put us in the ballpark for a Q4 ground breaking (I could be wrong but just the impression I’ve been under).

 

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

We're all excited for retaining SW.  Is it me, or does the number for the HQ cost, continue to shrink? I thought the original cost for the combination (R&D and HQ) was $1B, then the last number was $600M for HQ, now we're at $300M.

 

I don’t see the build being very tall which should help drive down cost.

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