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KJP

Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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31 minutes ago, freefourur said:

It seems odd to move their research center across the river when they already own some land along the river. I wouldn't be surprised if they sell it to the county for the new justice center. 

I would be OK with the new justice center there.   I was worried that it might end up on the Jacobs lot.

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Just for sh!ts and giggles, I pulled a few office towers that have been somewhat recently built in the range of 30ish floors. I'm not too worried about our skyline 🙂

 

Gem Tower, NYC -  built 2013 - 501 ft./35 floors

 

510 Madison, NYC - built 2010 - 452 ft./31 floors

 

Pinnacle at Symphony Place, Nashville -- built 2010 - 417 ft./29 floors

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35 minutes ago, Down_with_Ctown said:

Great news for Cleveland all around, but I have to admit to being *slightly* disappointed that the tallest building in the project will "only" be 30 stories.  But if the 1.45M s.f. HQ is going to be spread out over P.S. and the Weston lot, that has to mean there will be several other buildings in the same range.  As many have said, our skyline is skewed towards the east and needs balancing.  It sounds like this project will do that.  Hopefully, everything meshes well and the TT, Key Tower, and 200 PS are augmented by the nearby density.

 

 

A couple smaller buildings leading up to the tallest on the square will look awesome from the west. This is great news; bring on the renderings!

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This was a very fun and dynamic story to write about today.... Rumblings that SHW was going to make an announcement this month started coming in late last week. They got more numerous in the last couple of days. And today, while I was writing the article, some pretty connected people were sending me texts, twitter messages and calling me with the news! I had to tell them "Thanks, but I already got it." 🙂  Each confirmed what two high-level good sources told me yesterday and this morning. It's always cool to hear confirmations of your article while you're writing the article, even though these sources were not aware that I was writing the article when they reached out to me! All told, I've probably heard from 8-10 people in the last couple of days who wanted to share this news. While the details may need polishing (ie: the acreage that SHW is buying on Scranton Peninsula), every source is saying the same thing. In fact, I asked one source yesterday if he'd heard that SHW had decided on the Jacobs lot. When he got back to me, he clarified it's the Jacobs AND Weston lots. I actually knew that, but I was in a rush when I texted him and left out "Weston." So it's good to see that there's a lot of consistency among sources.

Edited by KJP
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However tall they decide to build the HQ tower on the Jacobs lot; I hope it has an amazing street presence and some great lighting at night.

 

They don't need to build a 1000' skyscraper to make a statement. 

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I still think a revolving paint can covering the earth on top would be nice.  It would add a little more height to the tower.  😀 

Edited by skiwest
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I can now get hit by that bus later on today and die happy know the Jacobs lot will finally be developed after 30 years. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing those renderings in a couple weeks.  Fingers crossed the parking garages are well hidden (even better if some of the parking is underground).

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6 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I can now get hit by that bus later on today and die happy know the Jacobs lot will finally be developed after 30 years. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing those renderings in a couple weeks.  Fingers crossed the parking garages are well hidden (even better if some of the parking is underground).

 

Stay alive to watch and see if more stuff that's brewing comes to pass. There's a ton of stuff emerging, and not just downtown. There's money flowing into Cleveland like I've never seen.

 

And watch and see if SHW's decision will kick-start some pending projects in the Warehouse District and in the Flats.

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Fantastic news!

I've despised those lots since 1989.  I wouldn't fret though; a 30 story HQ (or 450+ ft) is comparable to OCC, the fifth tallest building in the city.

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10 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I can now get hit by that bus later on today and die happy know the Jacobs lot will finally be developed after 30 years. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing those renderings in a couple weeks.  Fingers crossed the parking garages are well hidden (even better if some of the parking is underground).

I could see the parking garage being build on the corner of W3rd and St. Clair. Would make it close to equal distance for all surround HQ buildings.

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Just now, StapHanger said:

Excited, but also nervous to see how how so much parking is integrated into the design...

Vertical parking is infinitely better than surface lots.

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1 minute ago, dastler said:

Vertical parking is infinitely better than surface lots.

Especially those with buildings over them.  I have no problem with parking garages with buildings over them because they activate the space (pending some kind of street presence).  

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Excited to hear the news, although I never thought SHW would leave CLE, I'm still glad to hear the report.  I'm also extremely happy to hear of all the new jobs and the economic impact this will have on our city!

 

However, as excited that I am about the parking craters disappearing, I'm a little underwhelmed with the reported design.  It makes me worried that we will have a bunch of parking garages stacked on those lots with no integration with the city, and while that's better then surface lots, I would expect a little more out of SHW. I'm also concerned that there may be low rise office buildings(suburban style) that don't fit with the fabric of the neighborhood, again its better then surface lots, but I would expect more out of a fortune500 company.  These are just my concerns, but I will wait and give SHW the benefit of the doubt until the renderings come out before I make a judgment.  Maybe those in the know could shed some light and ease my concerns ahead of time.

 

Also, does anyone know how tall a tower on the Jacobs lot can be built without requiring caissons? 

As much as I was hoping for a substantial tower that would outdo those on PS, I'll reign in my lofty desires.  The report said "a roughly 30-story tower", on the low end that could be 450ft(15' ceilings for 30 stories), but on the high end that could be 600ft(15' ceilings for 38 floors, mechanical floor at the top and a 20' lobby).  Just trying to understand the max height possible.

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5 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

and still nothing on Cleveland.com on the story, not even to link to KJP blog...  so lame.  

 

I know what you mean but seriously, who needs them? We got the best reporter in the land right here! 

Edited by Clefan98
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11 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

and still nothing on Cleveland.com on the story, not even to link to KJP blog...  so lame.  

 

I'm getting retweets from Scene, WKSU, WJW and perhaps a few others I've missed. But I don't think most writers at cle.com or Crain's have even seen the article yet. Usually Steve Litt or Scott Suttell or Stan Bullard retweets my stuff. We'll see if they pick up on it. But the article has already 3,000 views in just the first two hours. That's usually where most of my articles top out after a couple of months!

Edited by KJP
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48 minutes ago, mack34 said:

Thats gonna be 1000 people who will want to grab lunch and are kinda stuck

Not if NRP (hopefully) takes the planning commission's advice and adds restaurant space.

Edited by tykaps
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16 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

and still nothing on Cleveland.com on the story, not even to link to KJP blog...  so lame.  

I wonder if Michelle Jarboe will ever return to Cleveland.com?  She seemed to always be on top of everything going on. 

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

This was a very fun and dynamic story to write about today.... Rumblings that SHW was going to make an announcement this month started coming in late last week. They got more numerous in the last couple of days. And today, while I was writing the article, some pretty connected people were sending me texts, twitter messages and calling me with the news! I had to tell them "Thanks, but I already got it." 🙂  Each confirmed what two high-level good sources told me yesterday and this morning. It's always cool to hear confirmations of your article while you're writing the article, even though these sources were not aware that I was writing the article when they reached out to me! All told, I've probably heard from 8-10 people in the last couple of days who wanted to share this news. While the details may need polishing (ie: the acreage that SHW is buying on Scranton Peninsula), every source is saying the same thing. In fact, I asked one source yesterday if he'd heard that SHW had decided on the Jacobs lot. When he got back to me, he clarified it's the Jacobs AND Weston lots. I actually knew that, but I was in a rush when I texted him and left out "Weston." So it's good to see that there's a lot of consistency among sources.

KJP - I am a little concerned with how they are are going to fill the weston Superblock. With the R & D Building out of the equation going to Scranton Peninsula 

and the 30 story tower going to PS, what are they going to fill the weston superblock with - a handful of 15-20 story office towers and a bunch of parking garages.

Weston Superblock is probably 4 times as large as PS.

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7 minutes ago, simplythis said:

KJP - I am a little concerned with how they are are going to fill the weston Superblock. With the R & D Building out of the equation going to Scranton Peninsula 

and the 30 story tower going to PS, what are they going to fill the weston superblock with - a handful of 15-20 story office towers and a bunch of parking garages.

Weston Superblock is probably 4 times as large as PS.

I share that concern.  This project has the capacity to be transformative.  Here's hoping the Weston lots aren't just being targeted for a new form of parking, making it an effective dead zone just as it is now.  

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31 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I wonder if Michelle Jarboe will ever return to Cleveland.com?  She seemed to always be on top of everything going on. 

Going off topic a little here, but I’ve seen her recently in both Heinen’s and Steelyard Target. On neither occasion did I pluck up the courage to talk to her. 


And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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^^An option could be a mixed use complex. Retail at street level. Parking on 4-5 floors. A 100-120 room hotel in a tower. Supply chain in a tower.  IT in a tower.  Accounting and payroll in a tower. The rest of corporate in the main hq. 

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2020 is starting off strong. This is seriously going to create so much development. I'm so excited. Cleveland could have an entire new district (Scranton) if this plays out well. Keeping my fingers crossed.

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Let's do some quick math here....

 

A 30ish-story tower with 27,000 sf floorplates means a tower with about 800,000 sf in it.

 

That's leaves about 600,000 sf of office space for the Superblock, plus if everyone working in the HQ gets a parking space, that's 5,000 spaces x 350 sf = 1.75 million sf. Not happening. But maybe 2,500 parking spaces is more realistic. That's about 875,000 sf for parking. Total structural uses in the Superblock could measure nearly 1.5 million square feet.

 

The Superblock's parking lots measure 246,114 sf. Let's round to 245,000. If every square foot of the Superblock had an office building or parking structure on it (not happening), the average height of these would be about 6 stories/levels high.

 

But there's going to be some open spaces in what SHW puts in the Superblock, including plazas, greenspaces, laneways, walkways, passageways, etc etc. Let's say about 25 percent of the Superblock won't have a structure on it. If so, that's about 183,750 sf. Round to 185,000 sf. So 1.5 million sf divided by 185,000 sf means an average structural height on the Superblock of just over 8 stories/levels. Some will be taller than that, especially those closer to the Jacobs lot. Some will be smaller than that, especially farther away from the Jacobs lot.

 

Point is, I can think of only two buildings in the Warehouse District that are taller than 8 stories -- the Rockefeller Building and the Pinnacle Condos. Even the Bradley Building at West 6th and Lakeside doesn't exceed 8 stories (it's 128 feet tall). So whatever SHW builds on the Superblock is going to be near, at or above the taller end of what already exists in the Warehouse District. 

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8 minutes ago, audidave said:

I’m curious how this affects Great Lakes Brewing decision.on Scranton. 

 

It probably doesn't. Everything I'm hearing is that GLBC is still a go on Scranton Peninsula. I've heard a few other rumors but the most credible ones say it's staying.

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Thnx for your efforts @KJP

I can't wait to see what may be announced over the next 12 months because of this decision. So many opportunities for new development in and around these new buildings. And as for connectivity from Scranton, Skylift anyone?

Edited by freethink
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^^^I guess i’m wondering if GLBC is solid with the interior location on Scranton. They mentioned how they would like some kind of pier onto the river. Also they mentioned maybe having space for their festivals.  I’m thinking if they want a “destination brewery” they should be alongside the river for the views and even access. 

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This is awesome and thank you for sharing!  If this creates an approximate 100 more hotel room bookings per night, does this development expedite a Renaissance expansion or Convention Center Hotel Phase II?  Does SHW have an official hotel partner?

Edited by Sapper Daddy
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1 hour ago, CLE_Millennial said:

2020 is starting off strong. This is seriously going to create so much development. I'm so excited. Cleveland could have an entire new district (Scranton) if this plays out well. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Just wait a few more weeks... 

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I am upset about the 30 stories deal. How lame is that? However, I AM excited overall about how transformative this is going to be for Cleveland.

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1 hour ago, audidave said:

^^^I guess i’m wondering if GLBC is solid with the interior location on Scranton. They mentioned how they would like some kind of pier onto the river. Also they mentioned maybe having space for their festivals.  I’m thinking if they want a “destination brewery” they should be alongside the river for the views and even access. 

 

GLBC has an option to buy the riverfront land just west of the Thunderbird land they've already acquired. 

 

18 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

This is awesome and thank you for sharing!  If this creates an approximate 100 more hotel room bookings per night, does this development expedite a Renaissance expansion or Convention Center Hotel Phase II?  Does SHW have an official hotel partner?

 

I think they have several partners. One of them is the Renaissance Hotel.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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KJP - How many jobs are you expecting to be consolidated from Minneapolis & other

parts of the country. I wonder if these transplants would be moving into Downtown

apartments & condos  or suburban housing.

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44 minutes ago, jbee1982 said:

I am upset about the 30 stories deal. How lame is that? However, I AM excited overall about how transformative this is going to be for Cleveland.

 

Keep in mind as posted above, we could be looking at anything from 400ish to 600ish feet, the upper end being nothing to sneeze at. And did anyone (with a cursory awareness of the corporate culture of SHW) seriously think this would result in an ego driven statement tower? 🤔

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