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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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19 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I think that's a good sign that some title work is occurring. Alley vacation, lot splits, and lot consolidation are often not recorded with the county (in error.) This is usually not discovered until a title policy/commitment is prepared and title search performed. 

Are these indicators that the parcels are being legally cleaned up and consolidated for purchase by a single entity?

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4 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Are these indicators that the parcels are being legally cleaned up and consolidated for purchase by a single entity?

 

🥳 👑💫 WE HAVE A WINNER!! 🥳👑💫

 

BTW: not yet consolidated. That will probably come post-transfer.

Edited by KJP
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7 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Are these indicators that the parcels are being legally cleaned up and consolidated for purchase by a single entity?

 

Very likely.  If a purchase is happening, then a title company will make sure that all the loose ends are tied up.

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13 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

I respectively disagree.   It is the realm of possibility that any company with deep Cleveland roots, would be interested in making a forever-impact on the skyline.   Why wouldn't they consider the tallest building as a possible design?  

 

Yea, that sounds great and all, but you're missing one thing, budget. Sherwin Williams is a publicly traded company and decisions like this will ultimately need approval. You're asking them to double the size of their building just because of the skyline.

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10 hours ago, KJP said:

So if you want to outlive downtown's largest parking lot crater as I do, hope that SHW comes with a plan that eliminates it with a design that eats those lots and does so with buildings designed to be pedestrian-porous along the major thoroughfares and hides its structured parking from the street.

And hopefully whatever is built will blend in with the existing buildings in the Warehouse District, especially along W 6th and St. Clair.  I believe the Weston plan of a few years ago had low rise buildings of 4 or 5 floors on W 6th with retail on the first floor.   

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10 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Which is a big "if" considering how long that so many of these parking craters have endured. There isn't a big demand for office space anywhere in the Cleveland area and even though some office tenants would like to be in newer spaces, Cleveland-area Trophy Class office rents don't come close to covering nationally consistent construction costs. And Cleveland doesn't offer subsidies for office construction except when renovating older buildings. The last new-construction office tower (the Ernst & Young tower in 2012) benefited from $30 million in investor visa tax credits--a program that's no longer available. 

 

So if you want to outlive downtown's largest parking lot crater as I do, hope that SHW comes with a plan that eliminates it with a design that eats those lots and does so with buildings designed to be pedestrian-porous along the major thoroughfares and hides its structured parking from the street.

 

BTW, I think that county plat map revision involving the vacation of Broome Court that @GISguy mentioned a week ago may be a bigger SHW HQ tell than I'd realized. Yes, the city passed it two years ago. So why did the county's Fiscal Officer finally do something about it now?

Broome Court vacate plat 11-21-19.JPG

 

Just checked myplace.cuyahogacounty.us this morning and the Broome Court right of way is now gone. It was still there on the map last week.

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39 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

 

Yea, that sounds great and all, but you're missing one thing, budget. Sherwin Williams is a publicly traded company and decisions like this will ultimately need approval. You're asking them to double the size of their building just because of the skyline.

 

Of course it's a publicly traded company so budget is the ultimate deciding factor.    But this doesn't mean they don't consider building an iconic tower.    It happens all the time....Comcast Center in Philly, Bank of America in Charlotte, hell even the P&G buildings in downtown Cincinnati have their own iconic spin on the skyline 😃

 

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Another factor is available, low-cost property. Being able to build on downtown land without the expense of having to remediate/demolish old buildings first reducing the motivation for going vertical. Economics/space requirements usually drive the height of skyscrapers although sometimes vanity does as well (like the race between the builders of the Chrysler and Empire State buildings). But one thing we cannot accuse SHW of having is vanity. Their current HQ says they couldn't care less if someone knew who/what/where their HQ is.

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36 minutes ago, KJP said:

Their current HQ says they couldn't care less if someone knew who/what/where their HQ is

 

Which may factor into the possible SW recruitment issues that we have discussed here. In my field (IT) I ask a lot of my colleagues looking to move if they have checked SW and they either say,  "oh I forgot about them" or even "they are located here" (most of the time that's the cle transplants). Point is, marketing maters. Both for recruitment and products sales. This is sometimes achieved by a HQ building(s). 

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When built, wasn't the Landmark Office Tower (SW's current headquarters) iconic?

 

While their new HQ may not achieve the heights many of us would hope for, I'm sure it too will be iconic, with the intent of being a solid home for another 100 years.

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Quote

"Groundwater removal is less important for the digging of caissons to bedrock 200 feet below the surface than it is for constructing a concrete mat foundation. Caissons are typically dug for towers rising above 400 feet. Mat foundations, or "floating mats," are for shorter towers.

And that sounds like what SHW is doing here. It sounds like they are testing and preparing the 1.17-acre Jacobs lot on Public Square for a mat foundation."

 

I saw this quote a few pages back, I think it may be from one of @KJP articles, but this thread was locked before I could respond.  While I do see the reasoning behind it, and im not saying its wrong, i think it is important to note that "Groundwater removal" has been used in construction of very large buildings that do require caissons.

 

I believe both The Aqua Tower in Chicago (82FLs and 859' tall) and The Millenium in San Francisco (58FLs and 645' tall) had "Groundwater removal" prefourmed on the projects.

 

This should give hope to all those who are dreaming of a iconic tower on the Jacobs lot!

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12 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

When built, wasn't the Landmark Office Tower (SW's current headquarters) iconic?

 

While their new HQ may not achieve the heights many of us would hope for, I'm sure it too will be iconic, with the intent of being a solid home for another 100 years.

 

Although SHW shared the Landmark Office Tower with three other major tenants until the 1970s and 80s, it wasn't until 1985 that SHW acquired the Landmark building. And even after that, you still don't see SHW's name prominently displayed anywhere on the exterior of that building.

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58 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Although SHW shared the Landmark Office Tower with three other major tenants until the 1970s and 80s, it wasn't until 1985 that SHW acquired the Landmark building. And even after that, you still don't see SHW's name prominently displayed anywhere on the exterior of that building.

 

Except that giant banner on the back blank wall facing the RMFH.  

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3 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Except that giant banner on the back blank wall facing the RMFH.  

 

Perhaps Nike had their HQ there previously? 😉

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Perhaps, Sherwin-Williams will surprise us all by constructing an unexpected (but rumoured) 75-stories tall tower that would be iconic among America's cities.

 

We can still dream can't we ... Until we are all notified via an official announcement from the company.

 

Sherwin-Williams may have the LAST LAUGH upon all of us who are thirsty and salivating forum member's.

 

😁😉🙌😯😂

Edited by John D. Baumgardner
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2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Just checked myplace.cuyahogacounty.us this morning and the Broome Court right of way is now gone. It was still there on the map last week.

I'm sorry for not following in detail the earlier posts regarding Broome Court Vacation Plat. Where & what exactly is this?  

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7 minutes ago, simplythis said:

I'm sorry for not following in detail the earlier posts regarding Broome Court Vacation Plat. Where & what exactly is this?  

 

I will have an article about this and more. I'd like to have a non-SHW article first so that my blog doesn't get bogged down with SHW stuff -- but I'm not getting calls returned on some other interesting stuff in the meantime.

 

This is a map where I circled Broome Court in 2017 after the ordinance was passed:

WHD-Broom Ct NW.jpg

 

And this is what the plat map looked like this morning (12-2-19):

 

Broome Court vacate plat 12-2-19.JPG

Edited by KJP
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I guess the City would need for the sewers to accomodate a new development in that area. I think it's a routine practice to ensure that sewers can handle any major new development.

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8 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I guess the City would need for the sewers to accomodate a new development in that area. I think it's a routine practice to ensure that sewers can handle any major new development.

 

I'm sure it is. But I'm also having a little fun with this, as is Pete...er, NEOtrans Agent 007.

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23 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Was there anyone from NEORSD on site? Or show any presence? 


In an odd, but not unusual agreement, the City of Cleveland Division of Water Pollution Control owns and maintains the sewers within the city.

Edited by Enginerd
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28 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Was there anyone from NEORSD on site? Or show any presence? 

Nope.....Its the same company that was doing the drilling.  

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On 12/2/2019 at 10:31 AM, Cleburger said:

 

Of course it's a publicly traded company so budget is the ultimate deciding factor.    But this doesn't mean they don't consider building an iconic tower.    It happens all the time....Comcast Center in Philly, Bank of America in Charlotte, hell even the P&G buildings in downtown Cincinnati have their own iconic spin on the skyline 😃

 

 

I'm not sure which Comcast Center you're referring to, but I'm guessing the newest, the Technology Center. Comcast is #32 on the Fortune 500 (SW #177), in the 6th largest city in the U.S.. And their tower is only 60 stories with a hotel and retail. You're asking for 90 stories.

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27 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

 

I'm not sure which Comcast Center you're referring to, but I'm guessing the newest, the Technology Center. Comcast is #32 on the Fortune 500 (SW #177), in the 6th largest city in the U.S.. And their tower is only 60 stories with a hotel and retail. You're asking for 90 stories.

 

I wasn't asking for anything--I was responding to someone asking for 90 stories 😄  It was so far up the thread I don't remember who....

 

But to your point, Comcast built the 57 story Comcast Center, then followed up with the 60 story Technology Center, both the tallest buildings in Philadelphia and therefore, somewhat Iconic.  

 

My point was that just because a company is public doesn't mean they would automatically rule out a tall tower based on cost.   

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

I wasn't asking for anything--I was responding to someone asking for 90 stories 😄  It was so far up the thread I don't remember who....

 

But to your point, Comcast built the 57 story Comcast Center, then followed up with the 60 story Technology Center, both the tallest buildings in Philadelphia and therefore, somewhat Iconic.  

 

My point was that just because a company is public doesn't mean they would automatically rule out a tall tower based on cost.   

 

 

 

Agreed, but my whole point was that they don't have a need for a building of the size being requested. They would have empty space which they would have to rent or leave dark. I can't see something like that being approved unless another anchor was signed on.

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18 hours ago, mack34 said:

Nope.....Its the same company that was doing the drilling.  

 

I've been thinking about this.... So during the week of Nov. 18, DRS Enterprises drilled groundwater wells in the Jacobs lot for Strategic Environmental Services to extract water samples for testing. SES primary business is to conduct environmental remediation and waste disposal. I think they found sanitary sewer infiltration into the groundwater below the Jacobs lot. Merely a week later (including the day before Thanksgiving and then the day after Thanksgiving), DRS crews were on West 3rd, West 2nd, Superior, West 6th and West 9th, running cameras through the sewers, then putting roughly two-inch diameter plastic tubing through the sewers (was it to re-line them or was it to jet them -- and what is "them"? Was it the city's high-pressure waterlines or was it the city's sanitary collectors?), then cutting pavement above laterals for later removal. And this week, DRS is removing that cut pavement and digging down to the sewers apparently to do spot repairs. Now how does the city move that fast unless it was to activate a contractor that is on standby to do emergency repairs? But if it was an emergency repair at the behest of the city, then why did this all start with DRS doing groundwater testing from a private property (Jacobs lot) which requires getting the law department involved (if it was the city) to secure access? Why wouldn't the city drill into a public right of way, especially a lightly used one like Frankfort or even the northwest quadrant or roadway of Public Square?

 

Whether this is Sherwin-Williams paying for this or the city paying for it, DRS has to have a permit filed with the city somewhere. And that starts the paper trail to find out who paid for this -- which is not an inexpensive job. And if it was Sherwin-Williams who paid for this as I suspect (because it all began on a privately owned piece of land for which Sherwin-Williams has a purchase agreement), then they are dead serious about locating on this site. You don't spend that kind of time and money on fixing the sewers to address a possible infiltration of flow from the aging sanitary sewers nearby if you're still debating this site. And considering they got a crew out there so fast, if this was Sherwin-Williams, they are in a big hurry to get this done.

 

BTW, that's just the tip of the iceberg on how much Sherwin-Williams is spending on this site. And yes, I have an article coming to summarize what they've done and continue to do.

Edited by KJP
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Could it be a similar situation like when someone buys a house?  You do an inspection, and if you find anything wrong, you tell the current owners to fix it before you buy it

 

SW has such a huge headache on its hands from an acquisition they made years ago, because that company they bought made lead paint, now SW is responsible for for all of the liability stemming from that.

 

Now, is going to purchase the land, I could see them wanting property that is free and clear of any potential problems, like contaminated groundwater, that the corporation may be held liable for, even if it was due to the previous owners.

 

But, this is just my speculation. 

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What if any contaminated groundwater is due to a problem that is the responsibility of a neighbor (ie the city's rights of way)? It's not the responsibility of Weston, but it must be dealt with prior to a title transfer. And it certainly must be dealt with well in advance of excavating for foundations to build a high rise so that the contamination (if there actually is any) can filter out through the soil. So if the city is responsible, SHW isn't going to wait around for them. They're going to take care of it themselves and possibly bill the city. If all of this is the case, it shows how much SHW wants this site.

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1 hour ago, PAZUZU said:

This is kinda random but with all that’s going on with SW do they have any plans to do something with the B&O station they own?

 

I thought SHW was going to transfer it to the Metroparks or the city for something to do with Canal Basin Park. But considering how long that project is taking, I wouldn't take bets on it.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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9 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I thought SHW was going to transfer it to the Metroparks or the city for something to do with Canal Basin Park. But considering how long that project is taking, I wouldn't take bets on it.

 

I’m really not sure, the last thing I remember was a failed attempt at a international heritage center.

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Yes, I've stooped to posting my tweets. But it's a pretty tweet. ..

 

 

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SHW-sewer-survey-work-112619-PeteMarek-2

 

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2019

Sherwin-Williams already spending big to put HQ at Public Square

 

For more than a month now, real estate professionals have been watching the activity on the Jacobs Group/Weston Group-owned parking lots, located on the west side of Public Square. When asked what they think of it, their general response is "there's definitely something going on there."

Why?

Because of the amount of money being spent -- perhaps up to $10 million so far.

 

MORE

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/12/sherwin-williams-already-spending-big.html

 

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11 minutes ago, KJP said:

SHW-sewer-survey-work-112619-PeteMarek-2

 

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2019

Sherwin-Williams already spending big to put HQ at Public Square

 

For more than a month now, real estate professionals have been watching the activity on the Jacobs Group/Weston Group-owned parking lots, located on the west side of Public Square. When asked what they think of it, their general response is "there's definitely something going on there."

Why?

Because of the amount of money being spent -- perhaps up to $10 million so far.

 

MORE

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/12/sherwin-williams-already-spending-big.html

 


“Well apparently Atlanta” 😂😂😂

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