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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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6 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Those individuals must be opposed to 200 PS and TCC too. Key Tower is pretty much the only building that doesn't block the sunlight.

Key Tower is to the north of the square.

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Actually, this may be my favorite view of DT Cleveland. A new SW Tower would either be eclipsed by 200 PS, or fill in that gap between 200 PS and Key Tower.

Screenshot_20200517-203652_Instagram.jpg

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A little fuzzy; must be mistaking the "9" for Lumen?

 

Even better.

 

We need a photo that includes the Lumen.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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Hey make them blend in so we can blur our eyes and imagine the real thing

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29 minutes ago, w28th said:

Hey make them blend in so we can blur our eyes and imagine the real thing

 

Hey, Cleveland could use some bright orange buildings downtown! 🙂 

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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^Hey, if Moscow can get an orange skyscraper, who’s to say SW can’t cover the Earth - er, Cleveland - with orange too!😂

C5DF0D3C-B33B-48AA-BB9F-EFC3E03A0613.jpeg

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What a fantastic idea! If SHW wants to attract the best and the brightest young minds, don't build a building that looks like the rest of the Cleveland skyline. In fact, that's one of the biggest reasons why SHW wants a new HQ tower. Their 90-year-old HQ isn't what young people want from an office environment.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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31 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

^Hey, if Moscow can get an orange skyscraper, who’s to say SW can’t cover the Earth - er, Cleveland - with orange too!😂

C5DF0D3C-B33B-48AA-BB9F-EFC3E03A0613.jpeg

That’s a cool color for sure.  Moscow is the real life sim city.  Still, I wouldn’t trade Terminal Tower for all seven (maybe eight) towers in this view.

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10 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

That’s a cool color for sure.  Moscow is the real life sim city.  Still, I wouldn’t trade Terminal Tower for all seven (maybe eight) towers in this view.

I used to work in a brown windowed office in Independence. The only thing I remember is the dreary interior- it could be 75 and blue skies but with the brown windows it looked like a storm was rolling in. Long story short,  blue and clear glass might not be sexy/unique as shiny as a colored tower but it lends itself to a good office environment.

Edited by GISguy
I think clear glass looks amazing, just wanted to clarify my point
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Blue looks pretty sexy on the Lumen and Hilton - I’d be fine with that for SW - especially if ithe tower is not “just” a rectangle/box  but has a tapered effect, a spire or something unique in its design lines. . Some “signature”  lighting at the top would be great. 

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9 hours ago, urbanetics_ said:

^Hey, if Moscow can get an orange skyscraper, who’s to say SW can’t cover the Earth - er, Cleveland - with orange too!😂

C5DF0D3C-B33B-48AA-BB9F-EFC3E03A0613.jpeg

 

I actually think that this thought would add color and life to the skyline.  It's forward thinking and would attract attention.  I believe an orange or green skyscraper would be phenomenal.

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There was mention upthread of concerns that a tall tower on PS would block sunlight.

 

A reflective glass tower could mitigate that impact.

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The majority of the tower will also not be using the entire site so it could be pushed back to the west 3rd side of the site which would help somewhat. 

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I just hope the Public Square portion has some ground floor use that the public can take advantage of whether it's retail, a restaurant or something creative. Public Square buildings are so closed off to the public and this is the last piece of the puzzle to get it right. 

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16 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I just hope the Public Square portion has some ground floor use that the public can take advantage of whether it's retail, a restaurant or something creative. Public Square buildings are so closed off to the public and this is the last piece of the puzzle to get it right. 


Yeah that has been a huge problem with the square and one of the reasons the north side has always felt especially dead. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistakes here. At minimum design it so that the space could be easily converted once downtown Cleveland has a better retail space market. 

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1 hour ago, JSC216 said:


Yeah that has been a huge problem with the square and one of the reasons the north side has always felt especially dead. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistakes here. At minimum design it so that the space could be easily converted once downtown Cleveland has a better retail space market. 

 

I don't see a conservative, legacy company like Sherwin Williams having retail on the ground floor of their main building.   I feel the best we can hope for is the parking ramps include them in the designs to the west.  

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3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

I don't see a conservative, legacy company like Sherwin Williams having retail on the ground floor of their main building.   I feel the best we can hope for is the parking ramps include them in the designs to the west.  

 

I can't find it, but I remember someone suggesting on here a flagship Sherwin Williams retail store on the ground floor, which would be totally awesome.  A Sherwin Williams museum, combined with a paint science exhibit (in conjunction with Great Lakes Science Center) would also be a fun public facing way to make the street level lively.

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15 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Blue looks pretty sexy on the Lumen and Hilton - I’d be fine with that for SW - especially if ithe tower is not “just” a rectangle/box  but has a tapered effect, a spire or something unique in its design lines. . Some “signature”  lighting at the top would be great. 

For signature lighting, look no further than the same orange skyscraper (Mercury City is the name, btw) for inspiration. It's been nicknamed the Eye of Sauron, especially on cloudy nights when the ads are red/orange in color. While the orange glass is odd during the day, it's absolutely incredible at night with reflections of the city. Imagine Terminal Tower reflected on that. While I think any type of glass will be a welcome addition to the Cleveland skyline, I really hope we can get great lighting on whatever the form of the tower is. Cleveland already has great night lighting with the Big 3. SW without it would really stand out in the wrong way.

 

03c508c5a37349a409df1da83d819267.jpg

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4 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

For signature lighting, look no further than the same orange skyscraper (Mercury City is the name, btw) for inspiration. It's been nicknamed the Eye of Sauron, especially on cloudy nights when the ads are red/orange in color. While the orange glass is odd during the day, it's absolutely incredible at night with reflections of the city. Imagine Terminal Tower reflected on that. While I think any type of glass will be a welcome addition to the Cleveland skyline, I really hope we can get great lighting on whatever the form of the tower is. Cleveland already has great night lighting with the Big 3. SW without it would really stand out in the wrong way.

 

03c508c5a37349a409df1da83d819267.jpg

 

That's just an amazing looking building.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Just for context, the Mercury City Tower has1,800,000 square feet and cost 1 Billion dollars when completed in 2013 - it’s nice to dream, but......

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1 minute ago, CleveFan said:

Just for context, the Mercury City Tower has1,800,000 square feet and cost 1 Billion dollars when completed in 2013 - it’s nice to dream, but......

 

⛈️ ⛈️ ⛈️ ⛈️ ⛈️   <---- rain

🚗 🏎️ 🛺 🚓 🚒   <---- parade

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Throughout this pandemic, SW has been hard at work, delivering paints and supplies in S. Florida. While there's a lot of Q2-Q4 uncertainty, I always see their little blue vans and trucks everywhere on the roads.

 

It makes me Cleveland proud!

 

 

20200616_130751.jpg

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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Perhaps it's more of the downtown thread's speed or NEO business, but this is definitely reassuring when it comes to thinking about their behind the scenes work on the new tower. Maybe I'm overthinking it but 100k isn't exactly a drop in the bucket either.

 

image.png.29eac2eb7c102d22d3fb2e557ed71e18.png

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With so much happening in recent month's, I know that many of us have had our thoughts elsewhere ...

 

However, I must wonder and ask if anyone has become hip to any solid information on the actual look and scale of Sherwin-Williams forthcoming corporate headquarters tower.

 

It's been several months, so I thought perhaps someone on the forum may have heard a sliver or two from somewhere.

 

I'm still cautiously optimistic that the company will build something unique and even transformative in spite of their conservatism.

 

@KJP, any tidbits to share? 

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Previously, slivers of information were obtained from conversations overheard in elevators.  But with social distancing, that might be a little more difficult now.

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22 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Previously, slivers of information were obtained from conversations overheard in elevators.  But with social distancing, that might be a little more difficult now.

 

idk how many UO folks are on r/Cleveland, but this 'elevator talk' reminds me of the "I paid a little extra for the window seat" jokes that were going around for a while lol

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All indications are that it's going to be a skyline-changer. From what I've been able to gather, the info I had in my last article on the subject still holds true...

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/sherwin-williams-hq-may-be-citys-fourth.html

 

It is probably going to be the city's fourth-tallest tower and potentially the third tallest. There is a small chance it could even be the second-tallest. Why the second-tallest?

 

If the 1 million-square-foot tower averages floorplates of 20,000 SF (which is between Fifth Third and Key towers), then it's a 50-story tower. If the floor heights are 15.5 feet like in Key Tower or 16.5 feet in Fifth Third Tower, then it could range from 775 to 825 feet tall.

 

But it's more likely that the 1 million-SF tower will have larger floor plates considering the size of the lot from which it would rise. Even with significant step-backs with elevation, the floorplates may average with a higher number. Ernst & Young Tower, the city's newest office tower, has 25,800-square-foot floorplates. Although One nuCLEus Place is proposed to have floorplates averaging 19,500 SF in the office tower. At 25,800 SF average per floor, SHW's tower would top out at 39 floors. At 19,500 SF/floor, SHW's tower would top out at 51 floors. If we use Ernst & Young's 15.7-foot floor height x 39 floors, that's a 612-foot building -- Cleveland's fourth-tallest. If we use nuCLEus' 14-foot floor height x 51 floors, that's a 714-foot-tall building, becoming the city's second-tallest.

 

Of course there's other combinations that can result in other outcomes. But you can see how this tower could be the city's second-tallest. We shall soon see!

Edited by KJP
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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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That also doesn't take into account any architectural crowns which I'm holding out hope it'll have. Surrounding Public Square with towers which mostly have crowns/spires that reach upwards is a good look I hope this continues. 200 Euclid is obviously flatter, but the stepping back at the top achieves a visual crown that doesn't necessarily add height but looks good as well for a PoMo tower.

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When you say we shall soon see... is that like... later this afternoon...? Next week?  Next month?  🤣🤣  We are goin crazy here! 

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6 hours ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

With so much happening in recent month's, I know that many of us have had our thoughts elsewhere ...

 

However, I must wonder and ask if anyone has become hip to any solid information on the actual look and scale of Sherwin-Williams forthcoming corporate headquarters tower.

 

It's been several months, so I thought perhaps someone on the forum may have heard a sliver or two from somewhere.

 

I'm still cautiously optimistic that the company will build something unique and even transformative in spite of their conservatism.

 

@KJP, any tidbits to share? 

We were all so good over the last month and a half, not  speculating -  - but everybody was wondering what you were,@John D. Baumgardner  - thanks for breaking the ice!! 
Gotta love @KJP’s answer - looks like even on the conservative side, we’re getting something close to 200 Public Square - and I won’t be sad if it eclipses Terminal Tower- though I don’t expect that.  I’m with those hoping for something with a crown/spire of some kind -  it would complement the big 3 perfectly and create  a more aspirational, vertical presence.  

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5 hours ago, jmicha said:

That also doesn't take into account any architectural crowns which I'm holding out hope it'll have. Surrounding Public Square with towers which mostly have crowns/spires that reach upwards is a good look I hope this continues. 200 Euclid is obviously flatter, but the stepping back at the top achieves a visual crown that doesn't necessarily add height but looks good as well for a PoMo tower.

 

Good point about possible rooftop architectural features. BTW, it's 200 Public Square.

 

5 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

When you say we shall soon see... is that like... later this afternoon...? Next week?  Next month?  🤣🤣  We are goin crazy here! 

 

Before the leaves change colors (not counting any droughts, locusts, etc)....

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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While I agree we have done a great job of not speculating too much, given @KJP's breakdown of the numbers I just thought I would entertain some possibilities on why I think we will get a 700-800 ft building from SW. Given the floor area numbers of the buildings I have looked at (non-residential), I think we can get something around 700 ft for sure (SW-willing of course). Also this is a good exercise to see what a flat versus spire roof would look like in the skyline. I guess you can debate on what roof type you like better or what would work well for Cleveland lol.

 

If there's anything to get out of this slightly unthorough exercise , it is that a 700 ft building no matter the shape will look massive in the skyline given similar examples from around the country (although this is something we probably already know). And all of these options at least would lend the second tallest building moniker.

 

(I'll preface this by saying 609 Main at Texas is my favorite, and I think something of similar shape could look cool in the skyline, PLUS it is 1.1 million sqft which is really close to SW's projected floor area).

 

The official renderings can't come soon enough! Hopefully they have an architect by now - if not that's very disappointing, but somewhat understandable I guess. I'm antsy to get my hands on some real material 😆.

Enjoy!

 

300 North LaSalle - Chicago

     Height: 785 ft

     Floor Count: 60

     Floor Area: 1.3 Million Sqft

     Mixed Use, mainly Office

     "Flat"

585355788_700-800Option1.thumb.PNG.39ccf19c496af5be055986a5354dbe95.PNG

 

609 Main at Texas - Houston

     Height: 755 ft

     Floor Count: 48

     Floor Area: 1.1 Million Sqft

     Mixed Use

     "Slanted"

626870097_700-800Option2.thumb.PNG.d3c9ce41e1af4572e0e16168cff02343.PNG

 

BNY Mellon Center - Philadelphia

     Height: 792 ft

     Floor Count: 54

     Floor Area: 1.7 Million Sqft

     Office

     "Crowned/Spired"

1332933663_700-800Option3.thumb.PNG.559233eb1cdaf7f593e76b5ffe8abdd5.PNG

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Nice job @Geowizical!

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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50 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

While I agree we have done a great job of not speculating too much, given @KJP's breakdown of the numbers I just thought I would entertain some possibilities on why I think we will get a 700-800 ft building from SW. Given the floor area numbers of the buildings I have looked at (non-residential), I think we can get something around 700 ft for sure (SW-willing of course). Also this is a good exercise to see what a flat versus spire roof would look like in the skyline. I guess you can debate on what roof type you like better or what would work well for Cleveland lol.

 

If there's anything to get out of this slightly unthorough exercise , it is that a 700 ft building no matter the shape will look massive in the skyline given similar examples from around the country (although this is something we probably already know). And all of these options at least would lend the second tallest building moniker.

 

(I'll preface this by saying 609 Main at Texas is my favorite, and I think something of similar shape could look cool in the skyline, PLUS it is 1.1 million sqft which is really close to SW's projected floor area).

 

The official renderings can't come soon enough! Hopefully they have an architect by now - if not that's very disappointing, but somewhat understandable I guess. I'm antsy to get my hands on some real material 😆.

Enjoy!

 

300 North LaSalle - Chicago

     Height: 785 ft

     Floor Count: 60

     Floor Area: 1.3 Million Sqft

     Mixed Use, mainly Office

     "Flat"

585355788_700-800Option1.thumb.PNG.39ccf19c496af5be055986a5354dbe95.PNG

 

609 Main at Texas - Houston

     Height: 755 ft

     Floor Count: 48

     Floor Area: 1.1 Million Sqft

     Mixed Use

     "Slanted"

626870097_700-800Option2.thumb.PNG.d3c9ce41e1af4572e0e16168cff02343.PNG

 

BNY Mellon Center - Philadelphia

     Height: 792 ft

     Floor Count: 54

     Floor Area: 1.7 Million Sqft

     Office

     "Crowned/Spired"

1332933663_700-800Option3.thumb.PNG.559233eb1cdaf7f593e76b5ffe8abdd5.PNG

So glad to have you back in the fold!  We've missed visualizing your massings.

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@Geowizicals massings are among the most fun posts on UrbanOhio - great to see a range of possibilities come to life in his sketches.  The SF number we're hearing for SW is close to 1 million square feet - but doesn't that apply to the whole project and couldn't that shrink the HQ significantly?  Of course, I'd love something on the scale of any of the three examples above.  I really like the synergy and dimensions of BNY Mellon Center the best, that version seems to somehow create a cooperative synergy with the other tall towers around Puc Square.  It also reminds me of the "double take"  effect between the new One Vanderbilt and the Empire State Building in NY.   I also like the slightly narrower dimensions of the 3rd version best.   609 Main Texas actually "begins" to dominate the skyline with its bulk.  Oh well, my two cents.  We could be in store for a very crane-crowded sky between SW, City Club, (dare I say it? - Nucleus), the Viaduct residential tower and the midtown hotel project  - Wow. 

Edited by CleveFan
Mistake corrected
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SHW's HQ will be 1 million square feet. The R&D center will be 500,000 SF. The parking is not counted in either facility's SF needs.

 

And I remain convinced that the HQ's square footage needs is a first phase. I firmly believe there will be more structures added sometime in the near future to the Superblock.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

So glad to have you back in the fold!  We've missed visualizing your massings.

Happy to share my orange skyscrapers with you all! I will also take requests 😉

 

20 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

@urbanetics_renderings are among the most fun posts on UrbanOhio - great to see a range of possibilities come to life in his sketches. 

@Geowizical ? 😉 If so then thank you kindly! Also I agree on BNY, although something striking like 609 would be welcome if it were slimmed down a bit imo.

Edited by Geowizical
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