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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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32 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

^ Did SW pay cash for the Jacob's & Weston lots?

 

Probably. No debt instrument related to these properties was filed with the county recorder's office.


"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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If the city was to first to act and delayed their payments you all would be calling for resignations of department heads and the mayor. But since this is the state's decision, no one is saying a thing...

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18 minutes ago, Metz44 said:

If the city was to first to act and delayed their payments you all would be calling for resignations of department heads and the mayor. But since this is the state's decision, no one is saying a thing...

This will get figured out.   

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37 minutes ago, Metz44 said:

If the city was to first to act and delayed their payments you all would be calling for resignations of department heads and the mayor. But since this is the state's decision, no one is saying a thing...

What is your deal?

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I think the loan will eventually be approved once the state reviews its finances. The city incentives are more substantial.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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11 minutes ago, KJP said:

I think the loan will eventually be approved once the state reviews its finances. The city incentives are more substantial.

Curious though if this will cause delays.  It doesn’t feel like the type of cash SHW would need to see before things could get started.

 

1 hour ago, Metz44 said:

If the city was to first to act and delayed their payments you all would be calling for resignations of department heads and the mayor. But since this is the state's decision, no one is saying a thing...

One thing I’ll say about Frank Jackson, for all his flaws, he seems to understand the cost of doing business (the Pixar snafu aside).  I can’t say that about all of our local politicians.

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1 hour ago, Metz44 said:

If the city was to first to act and delayed their payments you all would be calling for resignations of department heads and the mayor. But since this is the state's decision, no one is saying a thing...

Doesn't the City of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County have more financial skin in the game than the State of Ohio?

 

It may seem like doom and gloom at the moment, but this first SARS-CoV-2 wave will be the worst; it will get better with subsequent waves, as we approach some semblance of normality. This project included.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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35 minutes ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

Interesting historical post about the SHW HQ site:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/203417926921717/permalink/598495850747254/

 

 

 

Crap. I was hoping someone wouldn't find that. I was tempted to write an article about that.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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^It would certainly give some character to the area once it gets a gigantic parking deck. I certainly thought it was a throwaway building.  That would be nice to see SHW incorporate the building into their plan.  If not that, maybe add some of the motif or stylings to the new complex. 

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^ Look at the lost potential to preserve history and to activate that adjacent rooftop.  Well here's hoping SW project can work up a little magic to save such an old building. 

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Why does it need 3 more plaza/greenspace areas?  Public Square is a block away.  The Mall is two.  We shouldn't be so afraid of buildings Downtown.

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2 minutes ago, X said:

Why does it need 3 more plaza/greenspace areas?  Public Square is a block away.  The Mall is two.  We shouldn't be so afraid of buildings Downtown.

 

Ever been to Rome, Paris or London? Every other block seems to have a public space on it. And I suspect the SHW HQ will have some common spaces so that employees can step out of the office for a few minutes to recharge their batteries. They may not all be open to the public, but looking at the Goodyear HQ that CEO Morikis apparently liked, we may see some public plazas at the SHW HQ.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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I spent a quarter studying architecture and urban design in Rome.  There are indeed a lot of public spaces, but it's really hard to compare them to what we see in American Downtowns.  The public spaces in Rome drive the layout, pedestrian flow, and land use of the city in a way that American downtown plazas pretty much never do.  Just adding a clock tower and some columns to a standard downtown plaza is a misunderstanding of what makes Italy's public spaces work so well.

 

edit- I left this out, but the most important thing about Italy's public space may be their important social function.  They are the hubs of Italian social life, not bars or restaurants like in the U.S.

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All the more reason we should aspire to embrace what makes great cities great.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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Yes, but corporate plazas have always been the opposite of that.

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If the Gilman Building is indeed incorporated into the SW HQ design concept, I hope it doesnt turn into something like the gothic glass HQ of PPG in Pittsburgh.

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We're probably going to see a massive parking garage cover far too much of the site plan. If we get something other than a lifeless wall along 3rd or 6th, I'll be happy. Though I could do without the setbacks or corporate plazas.

Edited by Mendo

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3 hours ago, X said:

Yes, but corporate plazas have always been the opposite of that.

 

Doesn't mean we can't post our own wishes in the hopes that someone of importance might see it, right?

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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clever and food for thought, but i’d rather they focus on bringing the gilman back to its historic self if possible than conjour up a faux throwback grand archway & courtyard. there are other ways for staff to step out and get air, like rooftops and balcony level courts.

 

otoh, public passageways are a great idea. i think that might depend in part on if they want to allow for small ground level retail like a lunch place or two and corner shop, etc., or if they are going to have a big corporate cantina inside to feed the employees? i would say maybe make for an open mid-block public passageway with a high ceiling(i’m thinking of something like 6 1/2 ave in midtown ny).

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19 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

If the Gilman Building is indeed incorporated into the SW HQ design concept, I hope it doesnt turn into something like the gothic glass HQ of PPG in Pittsburgh.

Question: Is the Gilman Building the former Stark building sold to Realife. If not Exactly where and which building is it?

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This is it's original appearance but it has been "modernized" like so many other historical  Cleveland treasures. I could see the incorporation of this into the SW HQ resulting in a version of PPGs gothic Pittsburgh HQ, which was never one of my favorite urban developments. 

 

 

182-84 Seneca Street-Cleveland-1.jpg

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Sherwin-Williams delays headquarters, research center spending

 

The_Sherwin_Williams_Company_Logo_i.jpg

 

Sherwin-Williams Co. has temporarily cut spending on its proposed new downtown Cleveland global headquarters and Brecksville research center to focus on coronovirus COVID-19 matters.

 

In an email late Monday afternoon, April 6, Sherwin-Williams issued a statement saying the proposed $600 million investment in Northeast Ohio "is on hold near-term as the company focuses on the health and safety of our employees, customers and communities. The most critical planning activities for the project will continue, though at a slower pace."

 

However, the company said it will "continue to work with state and local partners and look forward to finalizing the remaining economic development package agreements"

 

The update on planning for a 1 million-square-foot headquarters on the west side of Public Square and a half-million-square-foot research center in Brecksville was included in response to a Crain's Cleveland Business request for comment on JobsOhio approving $37.5 million in grants for the projects.

 

More below:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/sherwin-williams-delays-headquarters-research-center-spending

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While unfortunate, not really that surprising given the situation. Hopefully things are able to progress in the near future. 

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In an email late Monday afternoon, April 6, Sherwin-Williams issued a statement saying the proposed $600 million investment in Northeast Ohio "is on hold near-term as the company focuses on the health and safety of our employees, customers and communities. The most critical planning activities for the project will continue, though at a slower pace."
 

Any idea what that might entail?

 

 

A48F3BD3-14C9-43C2-9ABA-2F4A83814F47.gif

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I know this time is different. But it's strange how on a number of occasions, as Cleveland was on the verge of a game changing tower or project - at the last minute disaster strikes  sending a mega-project to the unbuilt file.  In 87 it was Progressive's 60 story project at the end of the mall that died before it started -  as the insurance company hit some financial problems.  Then, just a year later, 1988 brought a game-changing proposal for the 1200 foot Ameritrust Tower on the Jacobs lot - which got killed by Ameritrust's merger with Society Bank.   Fast forward 30 or so years past Nucleus (I wont go there) into 2020, just as the SHW World Headquarters is just getting cooking-  and this time - it's the CoronaVirus Pandemic with the future uncertain and the economy on the ropes.  Obviously - first things first - we've got to take care of people, as a country,  and do all that we can to defeat the virus and minimize the pain.  But just to be a little selfish for a moment - and put on my Forum Hat - this moment feels a little scary in terms of Cleveland development.  I'm sure (or was sure) that SHW would be moving full steam ahead with their project - but then the news late Monday shook that confidence just a bit. 

I hope that the virus is completely defeated in the coming months - many Americans have done their part  so far- and research work, testing development and medication trials are happening with intensity.  There will be a new normal to get back to - and hopefully it's sooner than later - but it will come.  And Cleveland will go on, in a new decade that up until just weeks ago had a lot of momentum  and the most positive energy the city has seen in many decades.  I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't see a major slowdown in the plans to build the SHW HQ project.  But it's certainly too soon to know exactly where any of this is going just yet.  Hopefully SHW has their eyes firmly on the vision of this new world headquarters rising in this city on more-or-less the original timeline.  Hopefully, this is a relatively short delay while the company takes a deep breath, takes care of its people and determines fairly quickly that it's time to move forward  Maybe we'll get some  calming messages from some of you most connected Forum insiders that can reassure us.  But if you feel just a bit nervous, I get it.   

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6 hours ago, CleveFan said:

I know this time is different. But it's strange how on a number of occasions, as Cleveland was on the verge of a game changing tower or project - at the last minute disaster strikes  sending a mega-project to the unbuilt file.  In 87 it was Progressive's 60 story project at the end of the mall that died before it started -  as the insurance company hit some financial problems.  Then, just a year later, 1988 brought a game-changing proposal for the 1200 foot Ameritrust Tower on the Jacobs lot - which got killed by Ameritrust's merger with Society Bank.   Fast forward 30 or so years past Nucleus (I wont go there) into 2020, just as the SHW World Headquarters is just getting cooking-  and this time - it's the CoronaVirus Pandemic with the future uncertain and the economy on the ropes.  Obviously - first things first - we've got to take care of people, as a country,  and do all that we can to defeat the virus and minimize the pain.  But just to be a little selfish for a moment - and put on my Forum Hat - this moment feels a little scary in terms of Cleveland development.  I'm sure (or was sure) that SHW would be moving full steam ahead with their project - but then the news late Monday shook that confidence just a bit. 

I hope that the virus is completely defeated in the coming months - many Americans have done their part  so far- and research work, testing development and medication trials are happening with intensity.  There will be a new normal to get back to - and hopefully it's sooner than later - but it will come.  And Cleveland will go on, in a new decade that up until just weeks ago had a lot of momentum  and the most positive energy the city has seen in many decades.  I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't see a major slowdown in the plans to build the SHW HQ project.  But it's certainly too soon to know exactly where any of this is going just yet.  Hopefully SHW has their eyes firmly on the vision of this new world headquarters rising in this city on more-or-less the original timeline.  Hopefully, this is a relatively short delay while the company takes a deep breath, takes care of its people and determines fairly quickly that it's time to move forward  Maybe we'll get some  calming messages from some of you most connected Forum insiders that can reassure us.  But if you feel just a bit nervous, I get it.   

I'm never sad about Ameritrust Tower. It wasn't built but was purchased by what is now Key Bank which relocated their corporate headquarters to CLeveland AND built Key Tower on the lot next to the Ameritrust tower lot. It virtually was an even swap and honestly the Key Tower design is far better than the Ameritrust one. You wouldn't have gotten both built downtown it was always going to be one. But it isn't like Sherwin Williams is cash strapped or anything but they are a conservative company that is playing it safe. They are definitely going to build the tower, they have to technically due to space constraints at their current home. They also made the investment to OWN the lot unlike the Progressive situation (unless there is something on that I haven't read). We'll be okay. 

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58 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I'm never sad about Ameritrust Tower. It wasn't built but was purchased by what is now Key Bank which relocated their corporate headquarters to CLeveland AND built Key Tower on the lot next to the Ameritrust tower lot. It virtually was an even swap and honestly the Key Tower design is far better than the Ameritrust one. You wouldn't have gotten both built downtown it was always going to be one. But it isn't like Sherwin Williams is cash strapped or anything but they are a conservative company that is playing it safe. They are definitely going to build the tower, they have to technically due to space constraints at their current home. They also made the investment to OWN the lot unlike the Progressive situation (unless there is something on that I haven't read). We'll be okay. 

That’s not quite true. Society built Society tower pre-merger with Key. Society also acquired AmeriTrust pre merger with Key.

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I had to reread the article to realize how misleading it’s headline is.

 

“The company said its strategic reasons for undertaking the megaprojects remain unchanged, along with a schedule that it will stay in the existing buildings until 2023.“
 

The article states SHW is likely temporarily cutting spending on outside consultants while some consultants and SHW staff continue to work on the future HQ and R&D.

Edited by Sapper Daddy
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9 hours ago, bumsquare said:

That’s not quite true. Society built Society tower pre-merger with Key. Society also acquired AmeriTrust pre merger with Key.

Exactly. Had Society not acquired Ameritrust, that tower would probably be there and we'd be talking about the SW HQ on some other plot of land.

 

 

That said, I know bidding is ongoing for the project, so they'll likely go through the first round of that, go through value engineering and get final bids and by that time we may have a clearer picture as to when we can get back to whatever normal will be after Coronavirus, and put a timeline together for this.

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SHW+HQ+massing.jpg

 

THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 2020

Coronavirus crisis casualties in Cleveland real estate

 

...With the SHW HQ+R&D project, CEO John Morikis said in a video and a letter to employees this week that its sales remain solid during the crisis. However, SHW is reducing spending on HQ+R&D consultants to support the company's social distancing and remote staffing activities.

The need for the HQ+R&D remains -- to consolidate employees from multiple locations into fewer facilities -- and SHW staff continue to work on it. So SHW's plan to move into its new HQ+R&D facilities in 2023 also remains intact.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-crisis-casualties-in.html

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

SHW+HQ+massing.jpg

 

THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 2020

Coronavirus crisis casualties in Cleveland real estate

 

...With the SHW HQ+R&D project, CEO John Morikis said in a video and a letter to employees this week that its sales remain solid during the crisis. However, SHW is reducing spending on HQ+R&D consultants to support the company's social distancing and remote staffing activities.

The need for the HQ+R&D remains -- to consolidate employees from multiple locations into fewer facilities -- and SHW staff continue to work on it. So SHW's plan to move into its new HQ+R&D facilities in 2023 also remains intact.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-crisis-casualties-in.html

 

 

Ken, I'm not expert in building timelines, but even with a slightly delayed start to the HQ/RD project. Do you see how they can put up a building of the projected size in less than 3 years? 

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Typically informative and excellent NEOtrans article.  Very unfortunate that the 12th Ave. condos will now be apartments, but when you think about necessary recovery time from the crisis, it’s probably a great strategic move.  Those will be very attractive apartments and the last thing we need is new condos sitting on a market where way too few can buy.  I’m thrilled to see SHW say they’re keeping a 2023 move in date, but that does seem extraordinarily fast. 

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4 hours ago, Stang10 said:

 

 

Ken, I'm not expert in building timelines, but even with a slightly delayed start to the HQ/RD project. Do you see how they can put up a building of the projected size in less than 3 years? 

 

Has SHW actually said they going to delay the start of the project? If the start work in early 2021 (with some site prep and utility work done this year) and employees start moving into some or all of the new buildings in late 2023, I would think that's probably doable. I still think there's going to be phasing with the new HQ.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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It only took 13 months to build the Empire State Building. Which considering the improvements in technology and construction techniques since 1930, this timeframe is well within reason.

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53 minutes ago, Growth Mindset said:

It only took 13 months to build the Empire State Building. Which considering the improvements in technology and construction techniques since 1930, this timeframe is well within reason.

 

But there's also more safety measures in place today. 

 

Not sure if this is a parallel, but groundbreaking for The Lumen was April 5, 2018 and they started working soon thereafter. Construction isn't due to be completed until late-summer. Per my article from early May, floors 1-15 will be available for move-ins starting on June 29, floors 16-20 on Aug. 3, and floors 21-34 opening Aug. 17.

 

So if work starts on the SHW HQ in Q1 2021, I could see at least some portions ready for move-in before the end of 2023 if not completed by then. 

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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^ How time flies. It seems like just yesterday that we were discussing the Lumen webcam instalation and delays in pouring the foundation. 

 

That was two years ago.

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I would think though an office tower can be constructed faster than a residential one.. 318 kitchens, balconies, different finishes.

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15 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

I would think though an office tower can be constructed faster than a residential one.. 318 kitchens, balconies, different finishes.

 

Especially a modern office building with open floors.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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