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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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And after trading a few late-night text messages, I added the following paragraph to yesterday's article....

___________

 

Ironically, commercial firms don't have to file certificates of disclosure before buying a property, a Cleveland official said. Plus, there won't be much information for the buyer to get since there are no buildings on the properties and the parking lots won't remain as parking. Lastly, the buyer could have just sent a zoning letter to the city for free rather than pay $60 per certificate filed and gotten more information from the city.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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1 hour ago, mack34 said:

I've been in the paint and coatings industry for 26 years......Its always been know as the Paint capital of america.  Pretty high up on the plastics list also.  

 

It was kind of funny years ago when some "activists" were protesting the use of PVC at the new Target store  about three blocks from our plant, where we were making it in huge quantities for automotive applications.  🙂

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23 minutes ago, KJP said:

And after trading a few late-night text messages, I added the following paragraph to yesterday's article....

___________

 

Ironically, commercial firms don't have to file certificates of disclosure before buying a property, a Cleveland official said. Plus, there won't be much information for the buyer to get since there are no buildings on the properties and the parking lots won't remain as parking. Lastly, the buyer could have just sent a zoning letter to the city for free rather than pay $60 per certificate filed and gotten more information from the city.

 

Plus the internal cost of doing that sort of paperwork.   Unless someone in the corp misunderstood the regulations it is very odd.

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

We're also home to research facilities for just about every medical imaging device firm. Toshiba was one of the big ones and its imaging biz was recently bought by Canon which wants to greatly expand its medical imaging business.

And the only NASA facility in the Northern US. 

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11 hours ago, jbee1982 said:

Should we now call Cleveland the Painting Capital of the World?

 

I would be "coatings", not paint.  Although SW is seen as a residential paint provider, they are SO MUCH more.

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Until I witness a ......

 

groundbreaking meryl streep GIF

 

............ceremony and some UrbanOhio approved World Class Signage™️, I will reserve my excitement.

 

I am not doubting the information that our boy @KJP has provided, but for ME something is off.

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47 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

Until I witness a ......

 

groundbreaking meryl streep GIF

 

............ceremony and some UrbanOhio approved World Class Signage™️, I will reserve my excitement.

 

I am not doubting the information that our boy @KJP has provided, but for ME something is off.

There is.....its not anything tangible but there is in the way SW is allowing this to play out. You would think that with the amount of news being circulated, they would at least say they are staying in NE Ohio. I dont really doubt that they are but you are right about it beiing "off"

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Maybe it's because not all of the stars are perfectly aligned.

1.  New Jacob's core samples were just obtained yesterday

2.  As they did for Weston, no paperwork was filed with the City for the Jacobs lot

3.  Would this project be eligible for TMUD?  If so, its fate is still pending and could impact project financing

4.  Despite what's happening on PS/Weston, it sounds like Bedrock is still making a strong pitch

While there are still some unknowns, things appear to be moving favorably.

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

And after trading a few late-night text messages, I added the following paragraph to yesterday's article....

___________

 

Ironically, commercial firms don't have to file certificates of disclosure before buying a property, a Cleveland official said. Plus, there won't be much information for the buyer to get since there are no buildings on the properties and the parking lots won't remain as parking. Lastly, the buyer could have just sent a zoning letter to the city for free rather than pay $60 per certificate filed and gotten more information from the city.

 

Kinda looks like things are still in play and this is a bit of poker being played by SW, Bedrock, and the Westin/Jacobs site.

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

We're also home to research facilities for just about every medical imaging device firm. Toshiba was one of the big ones and its imaging biz was recently bought by Canon which wants to greatly expand its medical imaging business.

 

Picker (now Philips) has always been a big player with the big ticket stuff as well.

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The news isn't being circulated. I've spent many months trying to earn the trust of dozens of people who are working on this project. I believe that most of them believe that SHW's employees and Clevelanders who love this city deserve to know what's happening with one of its flagship companies. Many others in the media aren't making this level of effort to find people directly involved in the project who are willing to confide in them. I will not reveal anything about these sources. If you knew their identities (especially about a half-dozen top insiders), you would consider their information to be unassailable. Sadly, SHW is making efforts to find out who they are but they will not succeed. After SHW starts construction in 2021, I will tell you how I know what SHW is doing to learn their identities. And what's best is that, unlike a few months ago when there was a deliberate smokescreen coming from 101 W. Prospect, I have been able to penetrate that smokescreen. The actions from SHW are now amazingly clear to me about where they intend to build. No one else in Cleveland media has taken the time to develop the sources I have, although one of them is starting to. Everyone else in the media doesn't have a single insider source except Mike "Smokescreen" Conway. So if the likes of Brent Larkin or John Boyd are making you nervous, ask what level of detail are they providing about the project itself? They are writing or speaking to fill an empty space.

 

So I'm confused that some of you are still confused. This is becoming clearer and clearer to me all the time. In fact, this project has always been about the Jacobs/Weston lots and whatever competition SHW could find for them. SHW and its project consultant Welty have reached out to others to see if any other sites were better. I learned two weeks ago that SHW/Welty in early 2019 contacted maybe a dozen downtown property owners and one suburban one -- DiGeronimo. Yes, SHW/Welty contacted DiGeronimo (and it was only about the R&D facility). Not the other way around. SHW/Welty didn't reach out to anyone else. They didn't reach out to anyone beyond Greater Cleveland. They always wanted to be downtown, and they always wanted to be on the Jacobs/Weston lots -- barring a surprise that someone else was going to offer them a wonderful deal. And when they started reaching out to property owners, that's when they secured the purchase agreement for the Jacobs/Weston lots. That was a placeholder so that, while SHW did its due diligence on other sites, they wouldn't miss out on their preferred site. As far as I know, they didn't pursue purchase agreements with any other property owners.

 

Even what appears to be the next-favorite site, SHW has either reduced or outright stopped all initiatives for working out a deal with Bedrock. They haven't yet told them they're out of the running, but they are no longer taking the initiative there. Instead, Bedrock is trying to keep SHW interested in them. But I don't think it's going to persuade SHW at this point to abandon the Jacobs/Weston lots. With SHW filing the CODs for the Weston lots, that is a very big and very public "tell" from SHW. And may I remind that I was advised five days before the CODs were filed that SHW was going to file them for the Jacobs/Weston lots. So I asked a couple of people to keep an eye out for the CODs being filed so I could report on them first. I suspect certain people at SHW were surprised that I learned about the CODs so quickly. Thanks to those of you who helped! Since then, a few people in the media who recognize the significance of the CODs have been in touch me to either congratulate me and/or to request more information about what SHW is doing.

 

So please believe me when I say we're coming down the home stretch here to the finish line. SHW is very close to making a public announcement. And it might even include massings/renderings. I won't have renderings in my next article, but you will see why it is likely that SHW may have some massings soon. I'm not asking you to throw caution to the wind or put money down on construction start dates. What I am asking you to do is to enjoy this moment. And when the next moment comes, I hope you and I can enjoy that moment too. Will we? Who cares! Don't get too far ahead of yourselves. Just enjoy this moment and I hope you'll join me in learning a little bit more about this project as it evolves. I guarantee one thing -- it's going to be educational. And I love learning.

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2 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

 

Kinda looks like things are still in play and this is a bit of poker being played by SW, Bedrock, and the Westin/Jacobs site.

 

The person with whom I was texting said that, in his experience, far too many title agencies believe they should file CODs for commercial projects when they don't have to. Perhaps we assume that everyone knows all the time what they're doing when it comes to megaprojects like this. That's not always the case.

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3 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Maybe it's because not all of the stars are perfectly aligned.

1.  New Jacob's core samples were just obtained yesterday

2.  As they did for Weston, no paperwork was filed with the City for the Jacobs lot

3.  Would this project be eligible for TMUD?  If so, its fate is still pending and could impact project financing

4.  Despite what's happening on PS/Weston, it sounds like Bedrock is still making a strong pitch

While there are still some unknowns, things appear to be moving favorably.

 

The project would be eligible for TMUD, but SHW isn't going to pursue it. Everything else you write here is spot-on.

Edited by KJP
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Just now, KJP said:

 

The project would be eligible for TMUD, but SHW isn't going to pursue it.

OZ funding though?

 

On a side note, thank you for your stellar research and reporting on this.  

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5 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

OZ funding though?

 

On a side note, thank you for your stellar research and reporting on this.  

 

Doubtful on the OZ funding. SHW isn't seeking investors. They can spend six months of their net cash flow to build what will likely be a $1+ billion HQ+R&D facility without incurring any interest payments at all.

 

Thanks for the compliment!

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The work you’ve put into this is incredible @KJP Thanks for sharing it with all of us here. As I said before- this has been the most exciting and fun project to track on this board in all of my 12 years on UO. The public announcement will be something to see after all these months of speculation!

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On 11/14/2019 at 1:12 PM, shack said:

I think it should be complimentary to 200 Public Square across from it in the way Key Tower  compliments the Terminal Tower. I don't think another spire is needed or beneficial to the skyline.

Please NOT!!!

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Would they cap geotech survey holes like this? These are in the Jacobs lot....

 

EJhMQBnWoAMXxdm?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

EJhMQqtXUAIGOwz?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

EJhMRSzWwAUw8qF?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

EJhMR8WXYAEE5Ub?format=jpg&name=4096x409

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I’ve decided to take KJP’s advice and “enjoy the moment”. So, at the risk of seeming presumptive and speculative, I was trying to imagine something reasonably along the lines of what we might get for an HQ tower based on the latest bits we‘ve been hearing these past few weeks (e.g. Max 40 stories, etc.) I thought of Milwaukee’s quite New Northwestern Mutual Headquarters. 33 stories, 1,500,000 feet of floor space and 550 feet high - perhaps it’s even a bit shorter than what we might get but just to share the idea...

DEBD41E3-D57A-4528-8EDE-FE81BA3BC648.png

8112FA7B-5D0C-426F-8341-8AAAA949E8B2.png

43CC4F49-6C32-44F4-82FF-D93858D91DF1.png

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^Nice looking building. I hope we get something similar with SW. As I mentioned before even at 40 stories on or near Public Square, a tower that size is going to make a huge impression on the skyline, while getting rid of the Parking Lot District! 

Edited by Mov2Ohio
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To me, "enjoy the moment" means getting excited at seeing pre-purchase certificates filed by SHW on a publicly accessible website! 😛

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Okay....changing the subject from financing to height speculation.  I know a "guy" (his kid plays hockey with mine) that was working on the lot downtown and was telling me that SHW was planning on building a 75 story building.  While he is not employed by SHW, and I am not sure where he got that info...it would be really cool if true!

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It’s ridiculous to even have any doubt at this point from everything Ken has uncovered. The CEO, who isn’t a Clevelander throws down $10-15 million on a Lakefront mansion, and were wondering if he’s setting himself up to commute back to Cleveland from his new headquarters in Atlanta/Dallas/Charlotte/BFE/JohnBoydshouse.

 

Strip off that decades old whoa is me attitude. It’s annoying, and regressive, and flies in the face of everything directly in front of you. Make a toast to SHW, light up a Cuban, and envision how f*cking cool downtown is going to be 5 years from now. 

Edited by marty15
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A whistleblower told me those are not geotech survey holes at all, he/she said they are just searching for Jimmy Hoffa... 

 

Any idea why some are capped and others are not?

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Just now, Oldmanladyluck said:

When the project is officially announced UO should have a celebration- and I will be personally buying KJP a beer! 

Someone needs to nominate him for an investigative Pulitzer.

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9 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

When the project is officially announced UO should have a celebration- and I will be personally buying KJP a beer! 

 

Thanks, but I gave up booze 16 years ago. However, I'll gladly accept a nice, cold Diet Coke. 🙂

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42 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

Okay....changing the subject from financing to height speculation.  I know a "guy" (his kid plays hockey with mine) that was working on the lot downtown and was telling me that SHW was planning on building a 75 story building.  While he is not employed by SHW, and I am not sure where he got that info...it would be really cool if true!

Man that would be that Supertall as Key Bank is 57 stories tall.

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2 hours ago, marty15 said:

It’s ridiculous to even have any doubt at this point from everything Ken has uncovered. The CEO, who isn’t a Clevelander throws down $10-15 million on a Lakefront mansion, and were wondering if he’s setting himself up to commute back to Cleveland from his new headquarters in Atlanta/Dallas/Charlotte/BFE/JohnBoydshouse.

 

Strip off that decades old whoa is me attitude. It’s annoying, and regressive, and flies in the face of everything directly in front of you. Make a toast to SHW, light up a Cuban, and envision how f*cking cool downtown is going to be 5 years from now. 

You get a standing ovation. Thank you!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

Okay....changing the subject from financing to height speculation.  I know a "guy" (his kid plays hockey with mine) that was working on the lot downtown and was telling me that SHW was planning on building a 75 story building.  While he is not employed by SHW, and I am not sure where he got that info...it would be really cool if true!

I would assume that drilling depth/number of drilling locations would give some idea of the size/height of the building, but that's just speculation on my part. And maybe as KJP was saying that people in SW were giving smokescreens, maybe "40 stories or less" allows them to come out with a surprise in their announcement since Ken has already spoiled their location 😛🤣

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While I would absolutely love to see a 75 stories tall headquarters skyscraper for Sherwin-Williams, that doesn't seem to fit in with all of the information that has been provided by Urban Ohio's super sleuth @KJP.

 

I guess we all have to remain hopeful until the company releases some type of official renderings.

 

Sherwin-Williams, if you're reading this (I'm convinced that you are) then puleeeeeze build us a 75 story skyscraper that will become as iconic as our own Terminal Tower!!!!

 

😁🙌🙌😮🍷

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I'm gonna be super smart ass here...

Maybe he was thinking 75 stories in total, spread out into multiple other buildings. Tallest being 40 and the others are 15 and 20.

Edited by tastybunns

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19 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

I'm gonna be super smart ass here...

Maybe he was thinking 75 stories in total, spread out into multiple other buildings. Tallest being 40 and the others are 15 and 20.

 

Or 75 1-story buildings.  They are going to look like ranch houses, each painted in a different S-W branded color.

 

I am superest smart ass!

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@KJP, the caps are either for a permanant well put in for sampling water, or an inclinometer.  An inclinometer well is used to monitor groundwater levels.  To me this is saying somebody is looking to build a structure with some below grade elements to it such as a garage.  Tight site, tough to put a below grade garage in here.  They may be considering a matt foundation for a building which requires mass excavation and dewatering of the higher groundwater table.  All in all, they just want to see where water is naturally ocurring and at what level theyll encounter it.. 

Edited by Jenny
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That's great info. Thanks Jenny.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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