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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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I was just thinking about it. Is it possible since the new HQ is only going to start at 1million square ft that Sherwin-Williams Williams might initially keep the northern of the two Weston Lots just as a parking lot?  Because event if they build 30 stories with only an average of 25k a level on the Jacobs lot that means that they only have 250k sqft left for two lots that are over 6 acres. I know there is parking but still!

Edited by cle_guy90

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I suspect they'll keep some "holes" for future expansion because I don't think 1 million square feet is going to be anywhere large enough to consolidate all the SHW HQ/administrative employees here and in Minneapolis.

 

But even if 250K sf is left to spread among 5.65 +/- acres of Weston lots, there's still another 750,000-1 million sf of parking deck to be accounted for. So if it's 1 million sf of offices/parking for the Weston lots, that structure would average 4 floors high over the 5.65 acres. If it's 1.25 million sf of offices/parking, that structure would average 5 floors high over the entire Weston lots.

 

SHW might keep the NE quarter of the Weston lots as surface parking (and the Realife building) and for future expansion. But I don't think the Realife building is going to survive much longer anyway. Working on an article about that now.

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MORE

 

 

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I’m as thrilled as anyone that they’re staying, but man these big companies just can’t help themselves from going hog wild at the public trough. 

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

MORE

 

 

 

I'm just wondering if goodyear or eaton have any key markets with inferior air services....   but do what you have to do....

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49 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:


Who is Ted Carter? I don’t remember the name. 

 

And

 

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4 hours ago, marty15 said:

I’m as thrilled as anyone that they’re staying, but man these big companies just can’t help themselves from going hog wild at the public trough. 

 

At this point, given how common these kind of incentives are, wouldn't they be foolish not to?

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8 hours ago, Potamus said:

 

At this point, given how common these kind of incentives are, wouldn't they be foolish not to?

 

I'm very interested to see the 3rd party incentive analysis.  I think this project will be tremendous transformation for Cleveland and worth everything that was put forward in terms of incentives.  I'm much more bothered by the amount of incentive given to pro sports teams, the Med Mart and other boondoggles come to mind...

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10 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Cleveland’s incentive package to Sherwin-Williams would commit millions to secure Fortune 500 company for generations

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/clevelands-incentive-package-to-sherwin-williams-would-commit-millions-to-secure-fortune-500-company-for-generations.html

 

This makes so much more sense than Brecksville's offer. It doesn't seem like that big of a kick in the pants (especially with schools receiving their tax dollars), and just makes sense.

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Overall it seems pretty reasonable, at least compared to what Brecksville gave up for just a fraction of the jobs.

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59 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Cleveland’s incentive package to Sherwin-Williams would commit millions to secure Fortune 500 company for generations

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/02/clevelands-incentive-package-to-sherwin-williams-would-commit-millions-to-secure-fortune-500-company-for-generations.html


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

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3 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

That was at the earliest. 

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4 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

 

They would want their legislation to have the latest possible date so that they don;t risk losing the incentive. 

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We're all excited for retaining SW.  Is it me, or does the number for the HQ cost, continue to shrink? I thought the original cost for the combination (R&D and HQ) was $1B, then the last number was $600M for HQ, now we're at $300M.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project. Maybe that includes a bunch of infrastructure spending not needed downtown.

 

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

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47 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:


“More importantly, the company said it was committed to building a new headquarters on Public Square. That building is expected to be completed by 2025.“


Did I miss something?  I thought the plan was for S-W to be in the new HQ before the end of 2023.

 

Given the scale, I think it will be more than 3 years from ground breaking to ribbon cutting, right? 

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35 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Given the scale, I think it will be more than 3 years from ground breaking to ribbon cutting, right? 


Seems right, but I could see the incentives being finalized within a few months and plans being finalized by summer’s end.  I would think that would put us in the ballpark for a Q4 ground breaking (I could be wrong but just the impression I’ve been under).

 

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

We're all excited for retaining SW.  Is it me, or does the number for the HQ cost, continue to shrink? I thought the original cost for the combination (R&D and HQ) was $1B, then the last number was $600M for HQ, now we're at $300M.

 

I don’t see the build being very tall which should help drive down cost.

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"The on-site investment is anticipated to be over $300,000,000

and consist of a 1,000,000+ SF Class-A office facility"

 

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1 hour ago, Mendo said:

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

 

Semantics but PNC Tower was completed when I was still living down there (2016ish). I want to say it's also LEED Gold Certified, so that probably also added a good amount of money to the overall costs.

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2 hours ago, Mendo said:

The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project. Maybe that includes a bunch of infrastructure spending not needed downtown.

 

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

Wasn't this ($300M) about the cost of the Hilton?

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Cleveland.com had reported the Lumen as a $135 million dollar project (just as another frame of reference.)

Edited by CleveFan
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28 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Wasn't this ($300M) about the cost of the Hilton?

 

Close...$272 million


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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3 hours ago, Mendo said:

The $600 million in the articles a couple weeks ago was total investment for the Brecksville and downtown sites. I agree though the numbers still seem off. The cleveland.com article about the Brecksville incentives called it a $250 million project

 

Still $300 million for 1 million sqft of office space? Even the PNC tower in Pittsburgh built almost 10 years ago cost more and has less total square footage (800k)

Exactly - Pittsburgh’s PNC Tower, begun   around 2011 - an  800,000 sq feet project  - was $400 million. In 2020, that represents $450 million dollars - so I too am a little confused about a  $300 million dollar figure for SWHQ at 1,000,000 square feet. I hope not, but maybe  the “tower”  is going to be significantly under 30 stories

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We don't know the exact cost yet, so don't get too hung up on the $$$ figure. The actual quote said over 300M.

Edited by Clefan98
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after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

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2 hours ago, mrnyc said:

after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

 

There's so much more to learn about this proposal. It won't be fully known for as much as five years from now. And that doesn't include the huge spin-off development potential.

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5 hours ago, mrnyc said:

after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

 

Forgive me, but ssp proposals?

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6 hours ago, mrnyc said:

after almost 100 pages here, ha, i put a thread up for this development on ssp proposals, if anyone wants to jump in. people are impressed and happy for cle. 

 

41 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

 

Forgive me, but ssp proposals?


He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. 

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23 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. 

 

Foster understanding. Choose kind shortenings helping imbue tacitness. Because it tells clear hints.

 

---

 

Cleveland doesn't seem to often be a subject of discourse on Sky Scraper Page, and although we are still awaiting renderings or more official embodiments of the plans, I am (somewhat) surprised it took so long to get posted there.

 

---

 

And staying even more on topic, we have seen news articles about incentives from Cleveland, Brecksville, and Cuyahoga County, but has there been any update on the State's contributions and those of JobsOhio as well if those are separate?

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6 minutes ago, marty15 said:

When you can sense desperation from your suitor...... Funny, lotsa hotels and conference spaces downtown...

 

2 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

^ That could have been an awesome HQ/Hotel tower with R&D one block away...sigh

 

Please wait to see what happens next. I keep saying that you shouldn't judge this HQ project/spinoffs until about five years from  now. And some of it much sooner. 

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 

 

Please wait to see what happens next. I keep saying that you shouldn't judge this HQ project/spinoffs until about five years from  now. And some of it much sooner. 

POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas:

 

Two apartment towers

 

One office tower

 

Several new to market restaurants and retailers

 

This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. 

 

NO GUARANTEES.

 

Most of them are in the early stages of development.

 

And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built...

Time will tell.

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Larry, you know I gotta ask...any word on the height/Sq. Feet of the office and apt. towers? A bit upthread you really had the pulse on how SW’s main tower was going to be built first with staging on the Weston lots.

Edited by Silent Matt
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10 hours ago, Silent Matt said:

Larry, you know I gotta ask...any word on the height/Sq. Feet of the office and apt. towers? A bit upthread you really had the pulse on how SW’s main tower was going to be built first with staging on the Weston lots.

The proposed apartment and office towers are in the

20-30+ story range and approximately 300,000-500,000+ sq. ft.  These are in the early stages of development and so a lot of the specs may change and some may not even be built.  And some of them will require additional partnerships to provide the required financial backing that these large projects require to be built in a relatively low rent area.  Of course IF the proposed Ohio TMUD tax credit law is passed that will be very helpful too!

Edited by Larry1962
Typos and more details
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7 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

POSSIBLE SHW HQ project spinoffs in the Warehouse District and Public Square areas:

 

Two apartment towers

 

One office tower

 

Several new to market restaurants and retailers

 

This is what I'm hearing from several contacts in the CRE and Construction business. 

 

NO GUARANTEES.

 

Most of them are in the early stages of development.

 

And hopefully at least half of these proposed projects will be built...

Time will tell.

 

Yes. That's some of it. Although I'm not familiar with who is pursuing the apartment towers.

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What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this?  Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed?

Edited by mrclifton88

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JFC, I'm excited! Even if it takes 10 years to pan out our parking lot crater filled downtown is hopefully a thing of the past! It really seems like the incentive packages will really pay off (at least in Cleveland vs Brecksville). I'm really looking forward to the progress of this- just knowing it's going to get built is an amazing feeling unlike some other projects that keep getting dangled out there (*cough cough* NuCLEus). 

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2 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this?  Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed?

 

I would think you'll hear some details about some of this stuff before spring turns to summer. More might be nailed down and become public by the end of the year. As for SHW's HQ facilities, the full scale of it might not be known for 4-5 years. But we'll probably get renderings by later summer or fall on the first phase of SHW's HQ.

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5 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

What is the (approximate / rumored) timeline for some of this?  Waiting solely on the decision by SW to stay and build on Public Square? Or waiting for construction to actually begin or even be completed?

Some details and renderings about some of the projects that actually move forward might become public by late summer or maybe by the end of the year.  Plus I know that KJP and some other well connected UO members know A LOT MORE THAN I DO...

Edited by Larry1962
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36 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

Some details and renderings about some of the projects that actually move forward might become public by late summer or maybe by the end of the year.  Plus I know that KJP and some other well connected UO members know A LOT MORE THEN I DO...

I wish I was connected..

 

A9CC6ED2-188F-40BC-9F48-DE12AF8DF362.gif

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On 2/26/2020 at 7:47 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 


He forgot to follow the Acronyms Seriously Suck rule. 

 

 

lol -- worse i assumed everyone on here is already on skyscaperpages and skyscrapercity.

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On 2/26/2020 at 8:15 PM, infrafreak said:

 

Cleveland doesn't seem to often be a subject of discourse on Sky Scraper Page, and although we are still awaiting renderings or more official embodiments of the plans, I am (somewhat) surprised it took so long to get posted there.

 

 

 

exactly. i was very surprised. it was long overdue.

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1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

lol -- worse i assumed everyone on here is already on skyscaperpages and skyscrapercity.


That’s the thing - I was aware of skyscraper page and I still didn’t know what you were talking about. (I even googled “ssp” and “ssp Sherwin” with no luck.)  I was glad @ExPatClevGuy asked for clarification. And I appreciated reading through the comments over there once @infrafreak posted the link above.

Thank you for starting that thread. It was interesting to see them go through the same up and downs over the course of 20 some comments as we’ve gone through over hundreds of comments. 

Edited by Boomerang_Brian
Added my google attempt
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On 2/8/2020 at 8:22 AM, freethink said:

 

Getting a little bit of an entitled mindset in the Metroplex, aren't they?  🙂

The reason is mentioned in passing:  they are picking up a lot of businesses sick of San Francisco's ways.   What's interesting is even I would think those places would go to Austin, not Dallas.

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33 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:


That’s the thing - I was aware of skyscraper page and I still didn’t know what you were talking about. I was glad @ExPatClevGuy asked for clarification. And I appreciated reading through the comments over there once @infrafreak posted the link above. 
 

Thank you for starting that thread. It was interesting to see them go through the same up and downs over the course of 20 some comments as we’ve gone through over hundreds of comments. 

 

LOL I am pretty sure I found out about this place from the Skyscraper Page, though it may have been Greedwatch/Bernie's Insiders/Orange and Brown Report.....

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