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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

RISK OF CLOSURE

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27 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Then I read the article and realized it was a puff piece basically stating the obvious which anyone of us on the forum could have written.  

totally agree - what a misleading headline followed by nothing more than extremely bland speculation that was as insightful as some man-in-the-street interview. 

 

I don't want this thread to be locked again but let me just say this: despite whatever index cited in this piece and used by "experts", there is not one domestic business center of relevance to SHW that is currently underserved by the existing inventory of commercial flights out of KCLE.  And if a direct doesn't currently exist, most business centers in the U.S. are still reachable from KCLE with a maximum of two hops. Same for international.  Two hops max.  I am glad the article mentions this however not until the very end and only after you realize this important fact belies the misleading headline that preceded it.

 

Akron and Columbus are both home to combined 15-20 legacy Fortune 1000 companies that all presumably seem to make gobs of money for their shareholders while still being able to attract talent year after year. Hopkins has those airports beat in terms of total annual passenger rate and daily non-stop destinations (by multiple carriers) by an objectively large margin.  Again, not saying that Hopkins does not have its issues. But let's please stop pretending that Cleveland Hopkins is Manchester, NH or Buffalo, NY

 

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19 hours ago, KJP said:

Thanks for the picture with Buckingham Fountain. Now I've got the song "Love and Marriage" running through my head...

 

Well that's Kind Of A Drag.

 

(Let's see if anyone gets this....)

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18 hours ago, marty15 said:

Just pluck one of these from the Doha skyline and I’m good.

BBFF13C9-4A1D-4354-AC94-A3895DEE4892.jpeg

165684F7-DB49-4AE7-A6C2-7FC2055B4B9B.jpeg

 

Bet I can guess the jist of the orange one's nickname.   And it's not "Trump Tower".....

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11 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Well that's Kind Of A Drag.

 

(Let's see if anyone gets this....)

meryl streep questions GIF

 

(couldn't help myself, but I had to answer in this manner.  Nobody appropriately uses a DWP gif like me!)  😜

Edited by MyTwoSense
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On 10/12/2019 at 1:54 PM, KJP said:

 

I can't say too much yet, but look for something really different for Cleveland. I haven't seen renderings but spoken to two people who have. The main building may not beat Key Tower in height, but it might in design. Of course, that's always subject to opinion. 


Please be taller then Key Tower, please be taller!!!  

 

Hopefully the main tower is at least 1,001ft.

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You will be disappointed 

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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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28 minutes ago, KJP said:

You will be disappointed 

Ill never fully understand the obsession with height. Better to have a city filled with midrises throughout like many historic European cities than a small area of supertall buildings and the rest being low density.

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7 minutes ago, tykaps said:

Ill never fully understand the obsession with height. Better to have a city filled with midrises throughout like many historic European cities than a small area of supertall buildings and the rest being low density.

 

Cleveland skyline could use a high rise or 6. That’s why it’s skyline sort of lacks compared to peer midsized cities. 

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52 minutes ago, tykaps said:

Ill never fully understand the obsession with height. Better to have a city filled with midrises throughout like many historic European cities than a small area of supertall buildings and the rest being low density.

 

It's the tallest buildings that define a skyline and make it distinctive.

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34 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Do you mean besides having more 300+, 400+, 500+, 600+, 700+, 800+, and 900+ than Cincinnati and Columbus?e3da131.thumb.jpg.ab50353652148f159d308f915d9c99cb.jpg

FB_IMG_1570839261417.jpg.b40b8bc3835c295fe6053f838977a3f1.jpg

Hard to tell that from most skyline pics ...example of Cincy skyline compared to Cleveland. Not trying to start a skyline debate/war. Just saying a taller building would help fill out Cleveland skyline Abit, that's all. 

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Guys, don't get this thread locked. Pretty cool little article coming out tomorrow.

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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

You will be disappointed 

As much as I would like to see a tower surpass Key in height, I'm kind of liking the idea of a 6 or 7 hundred foot tower, or two flanking Key on the west side. It would help to balance the skyline, which is weighted heavily with the 9th street corridor, with fewer towers to the west of Public Square. 

 

Can someone do a massing illustrating that? 

Edited by Mov2Ohio
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15 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

As much as I would like to see a tower surpass Key in height, I'm kind of liking the idea of a 6 or 7 hundred foot tower, or two flanking Key on the west side. It would help to balance the skyline, which is weighted heavily with the 9th street corridor, with fewer towers to the west of Public Square. 

 

Can someone do a massing illustrating that? 

 

Already did this a while back...

6.thumb.PNG.df8e1f063dffb31969dcf61c9fe2597b.PNG

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13 hours ago, troeros said:

FB_IMG_1570839261417.jpg.b40b8bc3835c295fe6053f838977a3f1.jpg

145.65 kB · 0 downloads

Hard to tell that from most skyline pics ...example of Cincy skyline compared to Cleveland. Not trying to start a skyline debate/war. Just saying a taller building would help fill out Cleveland skyline Abit, that's all. 

 

Proportionality is important though.   200 Public Square is only 16 feet shorter than GAT, and taller than anything in Columbus.

 

And it's the shortest of the triple towers on Public Square by a good margin.

 

Downtown Cleveland is much more impressive coming from the west, by the way.

Edited by E Rocc
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17 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

meryl streep questions GIF

 

(couldn't help myself, but I had to answer in this manner.  Nobody appropriately uses a DWP gif like me!)  😜

 

LOL okay, five yards for obscure reference.

 

The song "Kind of a Drag" was a huge hit for the Buckinghams, a Chicago band who claimed to have named themselves after the fountain, but were clearly attempting to sound English.

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SHW+downtown+sites1.jpg

 

MONDAY, OCTOBER 14, 2019

Sherwin-Williams HQ+R&D will be in downtown Cleveland

 

Not only will Sherwin-Williams' new headquarters plus research and development facilities be located in downtown Cleveland, but the coatings giant also chose its construction manager, learned the amount of its public incentives package and set its deadline for announcing its HQ+R&D site.

By the end of this month, SHW reportedly expects to announce the site for its new HQ+R&D, according to two sources. The $1 billion, 1.8-million-square-foot HQ+R&D will be built adjacent to each other on whatever site is chosen and they will consolidate up to 6,000 SHW employees from throughout Northeast Ohio, Minneapolis and potentially other locations.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/10/sherwin-williams-hqr-will-be-in.html

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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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Thank you for the above article Ken.

I personally hope they build on Jacobs/Weston lots. IMO  filling the empty lots and empty west quadrant on Public Square would Have a more dynamic and immediate impact downtown .  And personally I was hoping it would be taller than just 40 stories. That’s a little disappointing if true. The other three locations would be more isolated and we are still left with empty lots in our downtown. 

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Agreed, but not surprised.

Forty stories however is on par with 200 PS, Erieview Tower & One Cleveland. If the design is exceptional however it could still make a dramatic statement.

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Another great article!  A question I have is can the space accommodate more than 6000 employees?  Doing some rough estimates, let's say that the 350,000ft R&D center holds 600 employees (I'm assuming it'd be more than that but let's go low just in case), that means there is still 1.45million sqft for 5400 employees which would be about 269 sqft per employee.  Right now companies are trending towards more open concepts and less square feet per person.  From what I've read it is moving closer to  150 to 175sqft/person.  Even with an additional 30% sqft for common areas and choosing the higher number (175sqft)  that still only gets you to 228 sqft needed per person which is at 85% of what they are actually building.

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great article, Ken. You outclass any professional journalist in this city by leaps and bounds. Kudos.

 

Hoping for something larger than 40 stories also. Keeping fingers crossed for that and also the selection of Public Square

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I added a paragraph about the date that SHW made its HQ announcement and the deadline when Welty wanted HQ+R&D proposals submitted. The window was only 2 weeks, although it may have been longer (but not much longer) for unsolicited proposals. The solicited proposals were requested in August. Either way, if you were a developer/property owner from outside NE Ohio and didn't know SHW was looking for a new HQ, you didn't have much time to respond.

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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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1 minute ago, KJP said:

I added a paragraph about the date that SHW made its HQ announcement and the deadline when Welty wanted HQ+R&D proposals submitted. The window was only 2 weeks, although it may have been longer (but not much longer) for unsolicited proposals. The solicited proposals were requested in August. Either way, if you were a developer/property owner from outside NE Ohio and didn't know SHW was looking for a new HQ, you didn't have much time to respond.

 

Ken, you've got a talent man! Here I am, thinking of got some intel, and you've already got it all cornered!

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2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Proportionality is important though.   200 Public Square is only 16 feet shorter than GAT, and taller than anything in Columbus.

 

And it's the shortest of the triple towers on Public Square by a good margin.

 

Downtown Cleveland is much more impressive coming from the west, by the way.

 

And also at night.  Every city's skyline looks bigger when all lit up like that.

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Great reporting Ken. Cleveland urban enthusiast are lucky to have you. I am hoping for the Jacob/Weston lots, these are generational decisions that can dramatically push the city forward.  I hope the city/county stands downs and push for integrated business in downtown core on the Jacob lots.

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@KJP Glad to hear more info saying SHW is staying in CLE. 

 

@Watertiger1962  I agree, it would be pretty disappointing if the tower was only 40 stories.   Hopefully that is just a safe number they are tossing around and it ends up being bigger, maybe with higher(20ft+) ceilings!? 😂

 

I do hope they end up building near the square to fill in the empty lots.  It would be great if they just purchased the Jacobs lot and the one Weston lot next to it, leaving the second Weston lot for the Justice Center and thereby requiring SHW to build their tower a lot higher. 

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I can't see it going past 450 feet. Kroger, which is a way bigger company than SW, only has a 320-foot tall HQ in Cincinnati. I think we're more likely to see a mid-sized tower for the suits and a squatter building with large floor plates for the R&D labs. Engineers hate having to squeeze things into small spaces over multiple floors when you can much more easily lay it out on one large floor. It's just not practical to run equipment and test samples up and down between multiple floors. 

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“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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25 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I can't see it going past 450 feet. Kroger, which is a way bigger company than SW, only has a 320-foot tall HQ in Cincinnati. I think we're more likely to see a mid-sized tower for the suits and a squatter building with large floor plates for the R&D labs. Engineers hate having to squeeze things into small spaces over multiple floors when you can much more easily lay it out on one large floor. It's just not practical to run equipment and test samples up and down between multiple floors. 

 

If they're really looking at a 40-story tower, I don't know why it couldn't be taller than 450'. The Kroger building is over 60 years old and less than 13' a floor. It's also only 25 stories. 

 

The E&Y building is about 15' a floor. Take that times 40 and you've got a 600' tower. That's not including pinnacles, spires, etc. Key Tower has 60' of architectural structure on top of its last real floor. Not suggesting that is a direction SW will go, but I haven't heard anything that would rule it out.

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1 minute ago, LlamaLawyer said:

 

If they're really looking at a 40-story tower, I don't know why it couldn't be taller than 450'. The Kroger building is over 60 years old and less than 13' a floor. It's also only 25 stories. 

 

The E&Y building is about 15' a floor. Take that times 40 and you've got a 600' tower. That's not including pinnacles, spires, etc. Key Tower has 60' of architectural structure on top of its last real floor. Not suggesting that is a direction SW will go, but I haven't heard anything that would rule it out.

 

Yeah - unless @KJP has heard differently, I've heard from a pretty good source that SHW wants at least one of its towers to be a formidable skyline presence (550-650ft), with other buildings ranging from 8-25 stories on the campus. 

 

Obviously - this will play itself out in the renderings, as even my information is still rather speculative, albeit by insiders. 

 

Moreover, if the Bedrock site is chosen, I don't see the point of a skyscraper, as it will already be 80-90 depressed beneath the rest of Downtown. The E&Y Building is the 18th tallest building downtown, but has almost no skyline impact unless you're looking from a Western angle because it's depressed beneath the rest of downtown. 

 

For those of us that love density, I don't think we could as for much more than a substantial tower and two smaller high rises to complement it, and that's what we may get at Weston or Lakefront

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2 hours ago, NewtoCLE said:

great article, Ken. You outclass any professional journalist in this city by leaps and bounds. Kudos.

I still wish we had a more professional, formalized news site about Cleveland development the way that Curbed is for other cities.

Dreams aside, Ken you never fail to amaze me with what you do.

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Glad I found the equivalent of Curbed Cleveland through this forum - well done! I hope the city/county aren't insistent on the Justice Center replacement being on the Weston lots as it would be more devoid of street life relative to a corporate HQ, right?

Edited by flee2thecleve14
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