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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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2 minutes ago, freefourur said:

ūüĎÄ

 

I've now heard from two people - for which my trust is marrow deep - that the County eyed that site up from an ambitious project of its own. 

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4 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I've now heard from two people - for which my trust is marrow deep - that the County eyed that site up from an ambitious project of its own. 

 

Is this any different that what KJP reported with the JC where everything has been smoothed over?

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5 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I've now heard from two people - for which my trust is marrow deep - that the County eyed that site up from an ambitious project of its own. 

Why can’t we have both? There’s a sea of parking lots in that area. The JC can be ambitious as hell (in fact, I hope it is. Let that bring some economic growth too) but out of the way of SHW. I don’t see why the JC HAS to be on Public Square. There’s plenty of parking lots to build on over there. I don’t get why they feel like it has to be on PS, if true

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5 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

 

Is this any different that what KJP reported with the JC where everything has been smoothed over?

 

Again, Ken might as well be John the Baptist with Cleveland development - the guy is tuned in all over the place and, more times than not, he's spot on. 

 

Having said that, I believe Ken's reference to "smoothing over" was that things were smoothed over with SHW to keep them interested in the site - not to land them on it. 

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Why the county would even begin looking at this property in any seriousness, when they haven’t actually decided to build a new building is infuriating.

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See, herein lies a big part of the region's problem. Why should SW have to battle Cuyahoga County or the City of Cleveland over the location for their new HQ?

Let the County build on the existing JC site or any of the other surface lots scattered across downtown or the near eastside.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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I don't know why anyone would want to keep a jail downtown anyways. Best place is an isolated industrial area where not many people reside. What you end up getting are drug addicts and thugs being released after a short stint in jail and end up wandering the streets of Cleveland...

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27 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

See, herein lies a big part of the region's problem. Why should SW have to battle Cuyahoga County or the City of Cleveland over the location for their new HQ?

Let them build on the existing JC site or any of the other surface lots scattered across downtown or the near eastside.

 

The analogy I just provided to a friend of mine is this:

 

SHW is currently dancing with Public Square, and the two are having a good time. But SHW is getting seriously put off that the county is standing 5 feet away, staring at the happy couple, desperate to cut-in when SHW goes to the bathroom

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1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

 

The analogy I just provided to a friend of mine is this:

 

SHW is currently dancing with Public Square, and the two are having a good time. But SHW is getting seriously put off that the county is standing 5 feet away, staring at the happy couple, desperate to cut-in when SHW goes to the bathroom

What the county doesn't know is that SHW has one hell of a steel bladder

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So the County is the only viable alternative to build on the Jacobs lot in the next 10-20 years...even if they are not formally competing with Sherwin, they give Jacobs a bit of leverage in any negotiations.  

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7 minutes ago, Boxtruffles said:

What the county doesn't know is that SHW has one hell of a steel bladder

 

And to build on my own analogy...

 

The Jacobs lot is a solid 9/10 and SHW is a 10/10 - due to its own lack of self awareness, the County is a 4.5 and still has its braces - a 9 dancing with a 4.5 doesn't make much sense.

 

Though, those of us that outkicked our coverage with our wives wonder the same thing every day

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1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

 

And to build on my own analogy...

 

The Jacobs lot is a solid 9/10 and SHW is a 10/10 - due to its own lack of self awareness, the County is a 4.5 and still has its braces - a 9 dancing with a 4.5 doesn't make much sense.

 

Though, those of us that outkicked our coverage with our wives wonder the same thing every day

 

Meanwhile Atlanta is saying ayyyyy pappiiiii

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Just now, troeros said:

 

Meanwhile Atlanta is saying ayyyyy pappiiiii

 

Lol SHW isn't leaving the dance, no worries - maybe just finding another gal in another part of the gym

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Although no vote has taken place, I believe that there is pretty much a consensus among those on the executive committee overseeing the future of the Justice Center that a new facility will be needed. The last major stakeholder to end their opposition and become at least somewhat supportive was the county judges. The many law firms that contribute to the campaigns of judges and county officials want the Justice Center courthouse tower to be located somewhere between West 6th and East 6th streets. Other than the Jacobs/Weston lots or a reworking of the current Justice Center site, there aren't that many undeveloped sites that are big enough. Now, one would hope that county officials are more aware of the big picture than that...one would hope. And while Jacobs/Weston can sell their properties to whomever they like, the county is likely to offer them more money than SHW unless SHW *really* wants their land. I'm told SHW *really* does want the Jacobs/Weston site but not at *any* price. They apparently had/have a very cool urban campus plan for it. I hope that Jacobs/Weston and SHW can work out a deal now, and let the county figure out their plans and funding next, whenever that will be.

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10 minutes ago, KJP said:

Although no vote has taken place, I believe that there is pretty much a consensus among those on the executive committee overseeing the future of the Justice Center that a new facility will be needed. The last major stakeholder to end their opposition and become at least somewhat supportive was the county judges. The many law firms that contribute to the campaigns of judges and county officials want the Justice Center courthouse tower to be located somewhere between West 6th and East 6th streets. Other than the Jacobs/Weston lots or a reworking of the current Justice Center site, there aren't that many undeveloped sites that are big enough. Now, one would hope that county officials are more aware of the big picture than that...one would hope. And while Jacobs/Weston can sell their properties to whomever they like, the county is likely to offer them more money than SHW unless SHW *really* wants their land. I'm told SHW *really* does want the Jacobs/Weston site but not at *any* price. They apparently had/have a very cool urban campus plan for it. I hope that Jacobs/Weston and SHW can work out a deal now, and let the county figure out their plans and funding next, whenever that will be.

 

Hopefully Jacobs/Weston realize that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush! Until a deal is put in ink, there are any number of little things that can derail it or blow it up. That's true even with a potential buyer far less dysfunctional than the county. If SHW makes an offer that Jacobs/Weston refuse, Jacobs/Weston aren't just gambling on whether or not they are getting a better deal, they are gambling on whether this property gets sold at all. Jacobs/Weston should make the first good deal they can, whether that's to SHW or the county (although I can't imagine the county process is functional enough to result in an actual deal in the next six months). I think to do anything else is to risk this property stays a parking lot for 5 more years.

 

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

I don't know why anyone would want to keep a jail downtown anyways. Best place is an isolated industrial area where not many people reside. What you end up getting are drug addicts and thugs being released after a short stint in jail and end up wandering the streets of Cleveland...

Do you mean ala Riker's Island?  If so, they could use one of the vacant areas in the flats.

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

Although no vote has taken place, I believe that there is pretty much a consensus among those on the executive committee overseeing the future of the Justice Center that a new facility will be needed. The last major stakeholder to end their opposition and become at least somewhat supportive was the county judges. The many law firms that contribute to the campaigns of judges and county officials want the Justice Center courthouse tower to be located somewhere between West 6th and East 6th streets. Other than the Jacobs/Weston lots or a reworking of the current Justice Center site, there aren't that many undeveloped sites that are big enough. Now, one would hope that county officials are more aware of the big picture than that...one would hope. And while Jacobs/Weston can sell their properties to whomever they like, the county is likely to offer them more money than SHW unless SHW *really* wants their land. I'm told SHW *really* does want the Jacobs/Weston site but not at *any* price. They apparently had/have a very cool urban campus plan for it. I hope that Jacobs/Weston and SHW can work out a deal now, and let the county figure out their plans and funding next, whenever that will be.

Based on your sources, what are the odds that SHW can get a deal done for the location they want? I can’t imagine that the county would effectively screw this up by now letting SHW be wherever the hell they want to be

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Unfortunately this is the kind of anti-business mentality that results in corporations departing for greener pastures.

Jacob's has been vacant for decades; the Weston lots for almost as long. Now all of a sudden, when SW expresses an interest in both parcels, Cuyahoga County wants to build a jail on them.

 

Really?

 

"Now, one would hope that county officials are more aware of the big picture than that...one would hope."

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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2 hours ago, KJP said:

Although no vote has taken place, I believe that there is pretty much a consensus among those on the executive committee overseeing the future of the Justice Center that a new facility will be needed. The last major stakeholder to end their opposition and become at least somewhat supportive was the county judges. The many law firms that contribute to the campaigns of judges and county officials want the Justice Center courthouse tower to be located somewhere between West 6th and East 6th streets. Other than the Jacobs/Weston lots or a reworking of the current Justice Center site, there aren't that many undeveloped sites that are big enough. Now, one would hope that county officials are more aware of the big picture than that...one would hope. And while Jacobs/Weston can sell their properties to whomever they like, the county is likely to offer them more money than SHW unless SHW *really* wants their land. I'm told SHW *really* does want the Jacobs/Weston site but not at *any* price. They apparently had/have a very cool urban campus plan for it. I hope that Jacobs/Weston and SHW can work out a deal now, and let the county figure out their plans and funding next, whenever that will be.

They (the county) could build on the pit as well. Only a small walk further and honestly more connected to transit. 

 

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

I don't know why anyone would want to keep a jail downtown anyways. Best place is an isolated industrial area where not many people reside. What you end up getting are drug addicts and thugs being released after a short stint in jail and end up wandering the streets of Cleveland...

 

Wow, I didn't have to say it.    That goes double for the centerpiece of downtown.

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1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Based on your sources, what are the odds that SHW can get a deal done for the location they want? I can’t imagine that the county would effectively screw this up by now letting SHW be wherever the hell they want to be

 

I haven't heard anything specifically about the ability of SHW getting a deal done, but just about any developer/property owner would love to land a whale. And the SHW HQ+R&D is the biggest whale to come along since the last Justice Center in the mid-1970s. The next Justice Center will also be a whale. BTW, don't assume that just because the new Justice Center courthouse will be downtown means that the new jail will also be downtown.

 

There is one thing that could give a downtown property owner pause. If their role is limited to property investor, should they sell land for the SHW HQ+R&D now for $10 million to $20 million? Or should they wait for the Justice Center courthouse tower in the future AND, as part of the deal, the county gives them the keys to the existing Justice Center for a meaningless amount (ie $1)? Another question is, are Jacobs or Weston either going to be building anything for SHW or the Justice Center? If they're just selling land to SHW but could be a player in building the new Justice Center and redeveloping/scavenging the old Justice Center, the latter could be worth a lot more money.

Edited by KJP
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With this Justice Center bs now tied into the Jacobs lot I can just imagine we’d trading one parking crater for another (vacated JC site) until market forces align again in 30 years...

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I’m starting to have my doubts about KJP’s Oct 14th article. Sorry 

 

https://www.wkyc.com/mobile/article/news/local/cleveland/report-four-cities-outside-of-ohio-are-being-seriously-considered-for-new-headquarters-of-sherwin-williams/95-765feb7c-2ebb-4f3e-beef-f4364f2b6012

 

‚ÄúAtlanta, Houston, Dallas, and Charlotte are also in the running, according to a national site-selection consultant.‚ÄĚ

Edited by PAZUZU
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The County and their campaign contributors should take a backseat, cool their jets and purchase some parkas. I doubt that the citizenry would tolerate a screwup of that magnitude.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
Spp
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3 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

I’m starting to have my doubts about KJP’s Oct 14th article. Sorry 

 

https://www.wkyc.com/mobile/article/news/local/cleveland/report-four-cities-outside-of-ohio-are-being-seriously-considered-for-new-headquarters-of-sherwin-williams/95-765feb7c-2ebb-4f3e-beef-f4364f2b6012

 

‚ÄúAtlanta, Houston, Dallas, and Charlotte are also in the running, according to a national site-selection consultant.‚ÄĚ


PEOPLE. ITS THE SAME F$&@ING GUY. In all the articles. Stop falling for it.

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6 minutes ago, PAZUZU said:

I’m starting to have my doubts about KJP’s Oct 14th article. Sorry https://www.wkyc.com/mobile/article/news/local/cleveland/report-four-cities-outside-of-ohio-are-being-seriously-considered-for-new-headquarters-of-sherwin-williams/95-765feb7c-2ebb-4f3e-beef-f4364f2b6012

 

‚ÄúAtlanta, Houston, Dallas, and Charlotte are also in the running, according to a national site-selection consultant.‚ÄĚ

 

Boyd has no insiders at SHW. He evaluates a broad scope of criteria among cities. It would be like saying that I should move to Charlotte or Atlanta or Dallas because they get a lot of people relocating there because of better weather, better air service, better secret sauce and so on. Well, I'm not every person and SHW isn't every company. You'd have to get to know me by my actions to know whether I'm inclined to relocate, just as you'd have to get to know SHW and their actions to know if they're inclined to relocate. Boyd has clearly made ZERO effort to talk with people involved with SHW's HQ decision-making. I have. And none of them have taken any actions other than to point strongly to them staying.

Edited by KJP
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4 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

The County and their campaign contribitors should take a backseat, cool their jets and purchase some parkas. I doubt that the citizenry would tolerate a screwup of that magnitude.

I do think that Budish is capable of such a screwup. I don't get how they are smart enough to throw a generous subsidy at them but stupid enough to not back off of their preferred site. 

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2 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Boyd has no insiders at SHW. He evaluates a broad scope of criteria among cities. It would be like saying that I should move to Charlotte or Atlanta or Dallas because they get a lot of people relocating there. Well, I'm not every person and SHW isn't every company. You'd have to get to know me by my actions to know whether I'm inclined to relocate, just as you'd have to get to know SHW and their actions to know if they're inclined to relocate. Boyd has clearly made ZERO effort to talk with people involved with SHW's HQ decision-making. I have. And my assessment is they're not going anywhere.


Exactly. The only effort John Boyd has ever made is to contact every news organization in existence.

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Good to know and thanks for the reply KJP. It’s easy to doubt. Not a good comparison but Hillary was leading all polls in 2016. No i didn’t vote for her but anyways I’m ready to hear it from the houses mouth (SW)

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18 minutes ago, Enginerd said:


PEOPLE. ITS THE SAME F$&@ING GUY. In all the articles. Stop falling for it.

and his reason is always air service or lack of it

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18 minutes ago, viscomi said:

I get the feeling that this Byod guy is just talking for the purpose of marketing and exposure to him and his firm. 

 

Of course he is.  And no one in those "articles" ever goes back and fact checks him once things are said and done....

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10 hours ago, B767PILOT said:

and his reason is always air service or lack of it

Even when CLE had more direct flights and better international air service, it was a much easier airport to get in/out of than the monstrocities of ATL, CLT, IAH or DFW.  It still is.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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12 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

Of course he is.  And no one in those "articles" ever goes back and fact checks him once things are said and done....

 

I keep saying it: we have to disregard any article like this that is nothing but lazy, click-bait journalism that feeds into the 'sound-bite industrial complex' that apathetic reporters perpetuate. John Boyd is clearly enjoying his moment here as a 'go-to' source for something in which he is utterly unqualified to comment on.  He might be a corporate relocation expert but he is offering completely insipid and generalized commentary that ignores any appreciation for the local context. Please make me stop saying this over and over again. Boyd is talking but he isn't saying anything. He is saying just enough to sound somewhat knowledgable; however, his rap appears to be a certain type of BS artistry that is good enough to get quoted because it sounds somewhat informed to the local reporter whose only motivation is filing the story before deadline and then moving onto the next thing. This is journalism now. They do *just enough* but never more. And God forbid they ever ask an informed follow-up question (i.e. "You keep citing lack of suitable air service at Hopkins compared to east coast hubs yet SHW and dozens of other legacy Fortune 1000 companies appear to be doing just fine despite their presence in Northeast and central Ohio. This, coupled with increasing passenger numbers at Hopkins and news of major capital improvements, seems to suggest there is only positive momentum in this regard. Care to comment?" )

 

Wanna know why there aren't more journalists like @KJP in Cleveland or other markets? Because it is difficult. It is difficult to be a good writer. It is difficult to cultivate sources. That takes years of relationship building and trust. Most of these local reporters are not here that long nor do the majority of them possess the type of doggedness and inherent knack for open-source investigation that really can cut into the story behind the story. This is also why you see a lot of journalists filing stories that offer no fidelity beyond what was spoon fed to them via a corporate press release.

 

i don't want this thread to be locked. No more threads on John Boyd. We know his motivation and the motivation of reporters who go to him for quotes.

 

So let's ignore him and wait. I am crossing my fingers for an announcement by the end of next week (per KJP). Hoping for a beautiful 60+ story high rise in PS. Stay positive and don't let lazy click-bait journalism get us down. It is exactly what they want because they want you to keep returning to their stupid site.

 

Edited by NewtoCLE
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1 hour ago, NewtoCLE said:

 

I keep saying it: we have to disregard any article like this that is nothing but lazy, click-bait journalism that feeds into the 'sound-bite industrial complex' that apathetic reporters covet. John Boyd is clearly enjoying his moment here as a 'go-to' source for something in which he is utterly unqualified to comment on.  He might be a corporate relocation expert but he is offering completely insipid and generalized commentary that ignores any appreciation for the local context. Please make me stop saying this over and over again. Boyd is talking but he isn't saying anything. He is saying just enough to sound somewhat knowledgable; however, his rap appears to be a certain type of BS artistry that is good enough to get quoted because it sounds somewhat informed to the local reporter whose only motivation is filing the story before deadline and then moving onto the next thing. This is journalism now. They do *just enough* but never more. And God forbid they ever ask an informed follow-up question (i.e. "You keep citing lack of suitable air service at Hopkins compared to east coast hubs yet SHW and dozens of other legacy Fortune 1000 companies appear to be doing just fine despite their presence in Northeast and central Ohio. This, coupled with increasing passenger numbers at Hopkins and news of major capital improvements, seems to suggest there is only positive momentum in this regard. Care to comment?" )

 

Wanna know why there aren't more journalists like @KJP in Cleveland or other markets? Because it is difficult. It is difficult to be a good writer. It is difficult to cultivate sources. That takes years of relationship building and trust. Most of these local reporters are not here that long nor do the majority of them possess the type of doggedness and inherent knack for open-source investigation that really can cut into the story behind the story. This is also why you see a lot of journalists filing stories that offer no fidelity beyond what was spoon fed to them via a corporate press release.

 

i don't want this thread to be locked. No more threads on John Boyd. We know his motivation and the motivation of reporters who go to him for quotes.

 

So let's ignore him and wait. I am crossing my fingers for an announcement by the end of next week (per KJP). Hoping for a beautiful 60+ story high rise in PS. Stay positive and don't let lazy click-bait journalism get us down. It is exactly what they want because they want you to keep returning to their stupid site.

 

 

A "corporate relocation specialist" is pretty much the equivalent of a "downsizing consultant", the economic equivalent of a vulture. 

 

Edit:¬† I just said similar on WKYC's FB page.¬† ūüôā

Edited by E Rocc
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1 hour ago, NewtoCLE said:

 

I keep saying it: we have to disregard any article like this that is nothing but lazy, click-bait journalism that feeds into the 'sound-bite industrial complex' that apathetic reporters perpetuate. John Boyd is clearly enjoying his moment here as a 'go-to' source for something in which he is utterly unqualified to comment on.  He might be a corporate relocation expert but he is offering completely insipid and generalized commentary that ignores any appreciation for the local context. Please make me stop saying this over and over again. Boyd is talking but he isn't saying anything. He is saying just enough to sound somewhat knowledgable; however, his rap appears to be a certain type of BS artistry that is good enough to get quoted because it sounds somewhat informed to the local reporter whose only motivation is filing the story before deadline and then moving onto the next thing. This is journalism now. They do *just enough* but never more. And God forbid they ever ask an informed follow-up question (i.e. "You keep citing lack of suitable air service at Hopkins compared to east coast hubs yet SHW and dozens of other legacy Fortune 1000 companies appear to be doing just fine despite their presence in Northeast and central Ohio. This, coupled with increasing passenger numbers at Hopkins and news of major capital improvements, seems to suggest there is only positive momentum in this regard. Care to comment?" )

 

Wanna know why there aren't more journalists like @KJP in Cleveland or other markets? Because it is difficult. It is difficult to be a good writer. It is difficult to cultivate sources. That takes years of relationship building and trust. Most of these local reporters are not here that long nor do the majority of them possess the type of doggedness and inherent knack for open-source investigation that really can cut into the story behind the story. This is also why you see a lot of journalists filing stories that offer no fidelity beyond what was spoon fed to them via a corporate press release.

 

i don't want this thread to be locked. No more threads on John Boyd. We know his motivation and the motivation of reporters who go to him for quotes.

 

So let's ignore him and wait. I am crossing my fingers for an announcement by the end of next week (per KJP). Hoping for a beautiful 60+ story high rise in PS. Stay positive and don't let lazy click-bait journalism get us down. It is exactly what they want because they want you to keep returning to their stupid site.

 

 

I know a better place to discuss this guy.....

 

 

boyd.jpg

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55 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ bazinga -- awesome and on point take down roccy lol!

 

I almost used my throwaway account, nicknamed "plutonium azoazide azide" but naww.....

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1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

^ bazinga -- awesome and on point take down roccy lol!

 

I didn't even touch on the fact that business travel is about an order of magnitude less prevalent in manufacturing than it was a generation ago.   But he didn't touch on actual specific facts, so why should I?

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Looks like it may take longer to decide than the end of this month....

 

 

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I still think strong negotiations are in play with other cities therefore.  If they were sold in Cleveland, they could say that by months end and put employees and politicians minds at ease.  They could then spend the next couple months thereafter deciding on a NE Ohio location.

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3 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I still think strong negotiations are in play with other cities therefore.  If they were sold in Cleveland, they could say that by months end and put employees and politicians minds at ease.  They could then spend the next couple months thereafter deciding on a NE Ohio location.

Agreed

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Yeah.....I think I'm in agreement that Cleveland isn't a lock. Let's hope they truly don't leave, but if I had to guess, I'd say there's a good chance they don't stay, as well. 

 

And that would be so incredibly sad ūüėě

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