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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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3 hours ago, marty15 said:

Even if it saves SHW from building a massive parking garage on Weston lots?  

As long as they build storefronts in the massive parking garage, I wouldn’t care

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^This is why tying the inevitable parking facility into a broader development vision for the parking crater would be so, so huge.  I don't expect SW to become a residential/retail developer, but I hope SW's project prompts some renewed development interest on Weston's part for whatever portion of the super block they retain. Or maybe Weston develops the parking (in line with KJP's scoop that parking may not be in the SW project scope).

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5 hours ago, freefourur said:

What a great opportunity to create the Sherwin Williams river front recreation trail. 

 

uh, wait, don't you all remember that was supposed to be a new CASINO!!!   hello?

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I'm just wondering how transformation 6k SW employees would actually be for downtown. 

 

Does anyone know how many employees SW currently has downtown?  What would the net gain be for downtown and for the region?  Is this basically a complete relocation of the entire Minneapolis-based Valspar team?

 

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From some Minneapolis news reports from last year it sounds like Valspar had 400-600 employees in downtown Minneapolis.  That said, Crain's reported back in 2016 that SHW had 2,800 people in the Landmark building.  That gets you to about 3300.  There's likely been some growth since then and maybe those numbers don't include the R&D facility or employees in suburban locations?

 

It seems like the transformational aspect if this really boils down to (a) not losing SHW to the signs or another city, (b) adding 400-600 workers from Minneapolis and others from other parts of greater Cleveland and (c) getting rid of the super block of parking lots which would open the Landmark building for development.  Parking needs would still be pretty large you account for the incremental employees and to make up for the spots lost when these surface lots go away.

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Good summary. I would add that 400 or so employees at the Breen Center would be moved from downtown's outer edge to near its heart.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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here is what msp thinks is staying put — basically r&d downtown and industrial coatings in edina — from last november:

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2018/11/12/sherwin-williams-minneapolis-like-a-second.amp.html

 

i could see the downtown r&d eventually leaving msp and consolidating on a built out cle supercampus, but probably the suburban industrial coatings and blending factory work is better suited to staying where it is in edina.

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7 hours ago, troeros said:

Aren't more and more large corporations turning against the grain of a sole corporate skyscraper?

 

For instance I look at Amazon HQ, Apple HQ, Walmart's new 350 Acre HQ..They are all designed to look like college campuses, with a community meeting space, a corporate lawn to do goat yoga, basketball courts, gym facility, etc. 

 

Millennial's have a different definition of the word, "corporate" nowadays. They expect a dress code that doesn't prohibit their idea of expression, they expect a built in espresso bar/Starbucks, a modern cafeteria with vegan options, a free onsite gym, a recreational lawn where you can do goat yoga, play basketball, ping pong, etc. 

 

You have to really sell your company nowadays to millennial's, and many don't want to work in a boxed skyscraper, they want, "space" and a laundry list of free corporate amenities, hence the reason for many of these corporate campuses. 

 

 

 

Not sure I agree here. The companies you cite have a campus-like atmosphere, but I think many companies are tuning skyscrapers into entertaining, vertical campuses. Think Salesforce in SF. I’m a corporate consultant and I’d say 80% of the HQs I visit have a “millennial-friendly” environmental in an urban high rise. Not sure why we can’t have both—in fact, I’d say the PepsiCo-, Chesapeake energy-style campus often requires too much land for the location to satisfy millennials. 

 

Also, we’re onto to Gen Z now—who cares about millennials? 😇

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ha yeah good point we are well into needing to attract gen z preferences nowadays, whom i believe are beginning to be referred to as zoomers, do i have that right? lol.

 

as for superblock campus or tower campus? i dk, but wow thats a nice choice to have.

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Isn't the combination of the PS site and Superblock large enough to be used to develop an urban campus; one that includes towers, parking and a campus-like environment?

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5 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Isn't the combination of the PS site and Superblock large enough to be used to develop an urban campus; one that includes towers, parking and a campus-like environment?

 

Probably. Weston's plan showed one way how to do it, albeit with an emphasis on towers. The four towers -- three about 20 stories each and one in the upper-30s -- plus some lower-level buildings measured 3 million square feet total. I suspect that square footage didn't include parking.

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I can guarantee there will be one tower at least over 635' tall....because that is how tall One PPG Place (the Glass Palace) is.  That is SW's biggest competitor and the only coatings company larger than SW.

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8 minutes ago, mack34 said:

I can guarantee there will be one tower at least over 635' tall....because that is how tall One PPG Place (the Glass Palace) is.  That is SW's biggest competitor and the only coatings company larger than SW.

 

No it's not!!  😄

Pittsburgh-pennsylvania-ppg-place-2007R.jpg

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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It sounds as though SW could utilize its extensive resources to develop a very unique urban campus, similar to PPG Place, that makes an architectural statement and establishes its leadership in corporate Cleveland. 

 

I love the stainless globe sculpture concept!

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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23 minutes ago, mack34 said:

I can guarantee there will be one tower at least over 635' tall....because that is how tall One PPG Place (the Glass Palace) is.  That is SW's biggest competitor and the only coatings company larger than SW.

In terms of overall revenues for the companies Sherwin Williams is now larger (thanks in part to Valspar).  On the fortune 500 SW is 190 with 17.53 billion while PPG is 205 with 15.37 billion.

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^^^^According to PCI magazine,  which is what these companies like to flaunt at trade shows, Junes edition has PPG #1 at 15.4 billion and SW #2 at 14.03.  They flop almost every year.  But trust me when I say there will be a tower that is bigger and more spectacular!!!  

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13 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

In terms of overall revenues for the companies Sherwin Williams is now larger (thanks in part to Valspar).  On the fortune 500 SW is 190 with 17.53 billion while PPG is 205 with 15.37 billion.

 

Curious if Sherwin Williams and PPG would ever merge...I know PPG is HQ in Pittsburgh

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3 minutes ago, mack34 said:

^^^^According to PCI magazine,  which is what these companies like to flaunt at trade shows, Junes edition has PPG #1 at 15.4 billion and SW #2 at 14.03.  They flop almost every year.  But trust me when I say there will be a tower that is bigger and more spectacular!!!  

Gotcha! 

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44 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Curious if Sherwin Williams and PPG would ever merge...I know PPG is HQ in Pittsburgh

 

That would almost definitely be an anti-trust headache neither company wants - in legal circles, there was talk of the Valspar purchase bringing anti-trust heat on SHW

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7 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

That would almost definitely be an anti-trust headache neither company wants - in legal circles, there was talk of the Valspar purchase bringing anti-trust heat on SHW

 

In fact, the Justice Department found that one aspect of the Valspar acquisition violated anti-trust regs. So it forced Sherwin-Williams to sell Valspar's North America Industrial Wood Coatings Business to Axalta Coating Systems.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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1 hour ago, mack34 said:

^^^^According to PCI magazine,  which is what these companies like to flaunt at trade shows, Junes edition has PPG #1 at 15.4 billion and SW #2 at 14.03.  They flop almost every year.  But trust me when I say there will be a tower that is bigger and more spectacular!!!  

 

You know something, mack???

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21 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

You know something, mack???

No......except that the rivalry between these two companies is real.  And the desire to be #1 is real.  SW's tower will be bigger lol

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6 minutes ago, mack34 said:

No......except that the rivalry between these two companies is real.  And the desire to be #1 is real.  SW's tower will be bigger lol

They already are on a trajectory to become the undisputed leader. The only thing lacking is a bright, shiny new HQ.

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9 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

They already are on a trajectory to become the undisputed leader. The only thing lacking is a bright, shiny new HQ.

 

Many Fortune 500 companies operate out of nondescript offices or ugly old skyscrapers:

 

 

kroger.jpg

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23 minutes ago, mack34 said:

No......except that the rivalry between these two companies is real.  And the desire to be #1 is real.  SW's tower will be bigger lol

A lot of testosterone in that statement. lol

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1 minute ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Many Fortune 500 companies operate out of nondescript offices or ugly old skyscrapers:

 

 

kroger.jpg

 

 

And many don't, what's your point?

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somewhat unrelated but curious where this leaves the Brecksville VA site.  They have a huge amount of space to fill, approx 100 acres.  Most recent site plan showed retail and hotel/conf center at the southern third along Miller Road....  with remaining two thirds as open to a "large corporate user..."   

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15 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

somewhat unrelated but curious where this leaves the Brecksville VA site.  They have a huge amount of space to fill, approx 100 acres.  Most recent site plan showed retail and hotel/conf center at the southern third along Miller Road....  with remaining two thirds as open to a "large corporate user..."   

My assumption is that they are still trying to woo SW. 

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2 minutes ago, freefourur said:

My assumption is that they are still trying to woo SW. 

 

As any real estate developer should until a competing site is under control.

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^ This is OT and 100% idle speculation, but there is large  NEO company who already has a significant office pretty much across the road from VA. I have to imagine they’d be on the DiGeronimo’s radar to relocate the corporate HQ there. 

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DeGeronimo has a sweetheart deal with that site. He basically paid a small fee to hold the option to develop it, and he would only have to pay for small parcels at a time, or as it builds out, should it ever. 

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27 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ This is OT and 100% idle speculation, but there is large  NEO company who already has a significant office pretty much across the road from VA. I have to imagine they’d be on the DiGeronimo’s radar to relocate the corporate HQ there. 

 

You mean CrossCountry Mortgage? Their president said earlier this year the leading properties are the old VA site and a site in Midtown. That Midtown parcel was bought earlier this year by an investor group that their president is a part of.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/01/investors-buy-6-acre-block-at-downtown-clevelands-eastern-edge-for-development-possible-corporate-hq.html

 

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6 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

You mean CrossCountry Mortgage? Their president said earlier this year the leading properties are the old VA site and a site in Midtown. That Midtown parcel was bought earlier this year by an investor group that their president is a part of.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/01/investors-buy-6-acre-block-at-downtown-clevelands-eastern-edge-for-development-possible-corporate-hq.html

 

 

He's referring to Lubrizol.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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1 hour ago, Clefan98 said:

 

 

And many don't, what's your point?

 

A company that has just grown by acquisitions and is looking to build a new HQ is in a ton of debt, and therefore vulnerable.  

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4 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Lubrizol is in Wickliffe

 

FYI:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/9911+Brecksville+Rd,+Brecksville,+OH+44141/@41.2911803,-81.6270346,3a,75y,88.16h,83.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVCX4us7xr8qEJb0fTdvfuQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x8830ddf39632c125:0x35559e9c939d4f09!8m2!3d41.2911949!4d-81.6269763

 

 

2 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

A company that has just grown by acquisitions and is looking to build a new HQ is in a ton of debt, and therefore vulnerable.  

 

Which company are you referring to, @jmecklenborg?

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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6 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Sherwin-Williams, which has roughly $12 billion in debt following the acquisition of Valspar:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4250175-sherwin-williams-just-scratching-surface-31-percent-dividend-increase

 

That's not a lot of debt for a 17.5B dollar company.

Edited by Clefan98
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11 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Sherwin-Williams, which has roughly $12 billion in debt following the acquisition of Valspar:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4250175-sherwin-williams-just-scratching-surface-31-percent-dividend-increase

 

That's not correct @jmecklenborg. At best its out of date. The debt is actually $7.2 billion as of June 30, or just a 1.92:1 debt-to-equity ratio. SHW doubled its net operating cash flow which will allow SHW to pay off that debt in a little more than two more years. And it will allow SHW to fund its new headquarters as a current liability.

 

Sherwin-Williams isn't vulnerable. It's resilient. In fact, it proved to be recession-proof in 2008-09.

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So I may have missed something. Has Sherwin actually announced a new building in downtown Cleve or is it just strong speculation at this point.

Speculation has turned into strong sourcing and RFQs sent out.

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4 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So I may have missed something. Has Sherwin actually announced a new building in downtown Cleve or is it just strong speculation at this point.

Read @KJP blog.  Posted in the thread

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6 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So I may have missed something. Has Sherwin actually announced a new building in downtown Cleve or is it just strong speculation at this point.

 

Nothing has been announced by Sherwin. 

 

Alot of this is stemmed from KJP sources, but the problem with early information is that it can turn from, "Groundbreaking in August, to the project is dead and the current parking lot site will be expanded with more demolition (as is the case with the Stark project) and no new tower."

 

It's early information that is essentially the equivalent to the size of an embryo. 

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7 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Nothing has been announced by Sherwin. 

 

Alot of this is stemmed from KJP sources, but the problem with early information is that it can turn from, "Groundbreaking in August, to the project is dead and the current parking lot site will be expanded with more demolition (as is the case with the Stark project) and no new tower."

 

It's early information that is essentially the equivalent to the size of an embryo. 

Stark has been the exception on that front. But he did build the Beacon. Also I think Sherwin would have a much easier job getting the financing then a bully like Stark who keeps changing his needs.

Edited by WindyBuckeye
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