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Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

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20 hours ago, Florida Guy said:

 

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The area you're showing isn't really 'downtown', look how dense the city core is. Smallman St. and the produce terminal is getting redeveloped (as well as development plans in the works for those lots on the river), and the Penguins Ownership Group has to develop that empty land where the igloo once was on a specific timeframe (of which I don't remember). The North Shore is also losing lots and building up (but still has a ways to go). I don't know what makes Pittsburgh feel much more dense than Cleveland but reasons I've come up with so far is lack of surface lots (huge), and narrower streets. 

 

Look around the city center (and neighboring shorelines) and you won't find a Jacobs Lot type situation- the city/private interest is actively developing these sites.

 

Edit: Looks like the Penguins group may have something in the mix for the area between Centre Ave and 579... https://www.wesa.fm/post/overhauled-plan-redevelop-lower-hill-promises-housing-construction-fall they've had the rights for ten years

Edited by GISguy
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Folks, I know it's hard to be patient after 30 years, but there is a light at the end of this long tunnel. Unless Sherwin Williams stumbles in paying off more of its Valspar debt or SHW sees another big company it wants to buy, look for some news by the end of this year.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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7 minutes ago, KJP said:

Folks, I know it's hard to be patient after 30 years, but there is a light at the end of this long tunnel. Unless Sherwin Williams stumbles in paying off more of its Valspar debt or SHW sees another big company it wants to buy, look for some news by the end of this year.

 

I hope this is right, but if not I personally feel the Jacobs lot is a perfect spot for a new Justice Center, so long as it's built in the fashion that the County HQ building was--as a public/private partnership (leaving the public out of the design and construction process).  A development like this would certainly spur on some mixed-use ideas for the WHD surface lots, including lots of attorneys looking to update their surroundings to keep up with the Jones' (or judges!).  😀

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58 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Maybe they are just "tired" after years of trying (similar to poor Forest City and Tower City...making that mall work again just plain exhausted the company and their people) and it is time to sell for a decent profit to somebody with a fresh approach.

 

Stark's efforts over the years have been pretty visible, including the failures.  What covert efforts of FCE and Jacobs have we been missing?  You make them sound like Rocky Balboa.  When Tower City still had a McDonalds it charged about 50% more than any other McDonalds, and panhandlers would go from table to table unabated. 

 

I think it makes sense to hold out for a proposal that fits this lot's location.  Who knows why it's taking so long, but without further info we shouldn't assume the owner has been grunting and straining for decades to make something happen.  It's safe to assume they were in on the Amazon proposal.  Maybe Jacobs would rather someone else puts a deal together, maybe that's been their approach all along.  Why waste the effort when the lot is profitable as is?

Edited by 327

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"Who knows why it's taking so long"

 

Wow. Have you looked at the BLS jobs data and the median residential and office rents data for Greater Cleveland going back to the 1990s??

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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7 minutes ago, KJP said:

"Who knows why it's taking so long"

 

Wow. Have you looked at the BLS jobs data and the median residential and office rents data for Greater Cleveland going back to the 1990s??

 

Wow.  You're certain there's no other factor involved, given how many corporate HQs have been built in the Greater Cleveland suburbs since the 1990s??

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12 minutes ago, 327 said:

 

Wow.  You're certain there's no other factor involved, given how many corporate HQs have been built in the Greater Cleveland suburbs since the 1990s??

 

Like CEOs moving HQs close to where they live out in the sticks? If you want more downtown HQs, get CEOs to move back to the city.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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40 minutes ago, KJP said:

Folks, I know it's hard to be patient after 30 years, but there is a light at the end of this long tunnel. Unless Sherwin Williams stumbles in paying off more of its Valspar debt or SHW sees another big company it wants to buy, look for some news by the end of this year.

I hope you are right KJP.  You tend to be much more positive than me when it comes to development in general. 

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9 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I hope you are right KJP.  You tend to be much more positive than me when it comes to development in general. 

 

Although I am optimistic (because I believe positive energy helps me be more productive and generally more pleasant to be around!), my comment that you're responding to wasn't my belief. It is from new information from a new source who agreed with (and probably does not know) my other primary, current source.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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2 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Although I am optimistic (because I believe positive energy helps me be more productive and generally more pleasant to be around!), my comment that you're responding to wasn't my belief. It is from new information from a new source who agreed with (and probably does not know) my other primary, current source.

Sorry for being crude, but is urban development blue balls a thing? Because I think that's what you're giving me right now. 😵

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Wha, you couldn't say epididymal hypertension instead?? 😄

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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16 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Like CEOs moving HQs close to where they live out in the sticks? If you want more downtown HQs, get CEOs to move back to the city.

 

That's not what happened with Progressive, for example. 

 

Don't be so quick to deploy the market purity argument.  Alternative tax schemes were just being discussed upthread.  There's plenty of evidence that the downtown Cleveland office market has been distorted over the years by a handful of misguided people and misguided policies.  Maybe it is time to change the parking tax.  Maybe it's also time to review the city's efforts at making itself liveable, time to consider new approaches.  That discussion might belong in a different thread, but it absolutely impacts the future of the Jacobs Public Square Lot.  You just said yourself that the desirability of living here is an important factor.

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Although I am optimistic (because I believe positive energy helps me be more productive and generally more pleasant to be around!), my comment that you're responding to wasn't my belief. It is from new information from a new source who agreed with (and probably does not know) my other primary, current source.

 

Any more details you can share?  😉

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13 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

 

Any more details you can share?  😉

 

I'm thinking how I can turn it and other stuff I learned today into a blog...

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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2 hours ago, 327 said:

 

That's not what happened with Progressive, for example. 

 

Don't be so quick to deploy the market purity argument.  Alternative tax schemes were just being discussed upthread.  There's plenty of evidence that the downtown Cleveland office market has been distorted over the years by a handful of misguided people and misguided policies.  Maybe it is time to change the parking tax.  Maybe it's also time to review the city's efforts at making itself liveable, time to consider new approaches.  That discussion might belong in a different thread, but it absolutely impacts the future of the Jacobs Public Square Lot.  You just said yourself that the desirability of living here is an important factor.

 

The city of Cleveland has been taking it on the chin way too long.  It's time to give the burbs a taste of their own medicine!  Be forewarned suburbia!  Just ask Connecticut / New Jersey.  Their tax base is being eaten alive by the urban renaissance, the fifth migration, the new anti-house tax policy, etc.  Where there is tax revenue, there is power.  And slowly but surely, the power is shifting back to cities.  Cleveland just happens to be one of the last guests to join the party.  Again, our region's policies and inefficiencies have significantly slowed this progression in comparison to other regions.  But I truly believe that the days of the Cleveland surface parking lot racket are numbered.  The question is, can our leaders accelerate that process?  

Edited by NYC Boomerang

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I'm all about boosting the city but it's not like Cleveland lives in a bubble, despite the city leadership acting like it-we rise and fall as a region. We need to grow as a region, city, suburbs, and everywhere in between. Tax breaks to move jobs throughout the county should be illegal as should other schemes to just shuffle jobs. I hope the Jacobs property being developed is a catalyst to bring more jobs here and sell our region as a whole.

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7 hours ago, G00pie said:

you are such a teast @KJP but finding out SHW is putting up a Tower would be the cherry on top of all the great news lately

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If it looked even remotely like the "Amazon HQ" it would be more than a cherry....

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Landmark+Office+Towers.jpg

 

FRIDAY, MARCH 15, 2019

New Sherwin Williams HQ plans may stir by 2020

 

By the end of this year, Cleveland coatings giant Sherwin Williams (SHW) plans to issue a request for proposals (RFP) from design-build teams for a new or expanded corporate world headquarters and research facilities. That's the word from two sources in the development community.

Once SHW wrapped up legal and staffing issues in the summer of 2018 surrounding its acquisition of rival Valspar Corp., it commissioned work on drafting an RFP for the combined company's facilities. While most of the parameters in the RFP aren't known, some are. For example, the RFP will reportedly seek proposals not only for a new headquarters but also for a new research center.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/03/new-sherwin-williams-hq-plans-may-stir.html

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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The timeline suggests that it could be built by 2022. But that is probably an overly optimistic scenario which assumes that SHW is going to quickly make a decision on which proposal to accept, that design/construction will proceed at the fastest rate possible with no delays, and that SHW debt-to-equity ratio continues to improve at current rates with no hiccups. Ultimately SHW is not going to be able to put meaningful funding toward this project until it can redirect funding away from retiring debt. An exception is if it sells Landmark and Breen (staying in both on a short-term lease) and uses the sale proceeds to pay the acquisition fees on the new facility leases or to make a down payment on a mortgage for the new facilities.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Ken, great write up.....Any word on SW expanding the R&D center in Warrensville Hts?  Its an enormous campus that is screaming for renovations.   

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Thanks. I've heard nothing. 

 

EDIT: I wouldn't expect any major changes or improvements to SHW's Automotive Finishes HQ and plant for a few years, for the same reasons as there is no visible action on the HQ/R&D facilities. It will be interesting to see if SHW consolidates the Technology Center with the automotive R&D and the main HQ with the automotive HQ or if SHW keeps each of these separate.

Edited by KJP

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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1 million square feet for a potential new SHW headquarters, according to KJP’s blog.  By comparison,  The Terminal Tower has 577,000 square feet, 200 Public Square has 1.2 million feet of office space and the Key Tower Itself about 1.25 million. The perfect new neighbor on the block...hopefully...

 

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5 hours ago, KJP said:

... optimistic scenario which assumes that ... SHW debt-to-equity ratio continues to improve at current rates with no hiccups.

 

It appears to me they want to cut the debt - but not too much. SHW just announced a pretty hefty cash-dissipating dividend increase of 31%. I think they are looking to nail down cheap long-term debt, while paying off the high cost short stuff.  Being too asset-rich can attract activist thieves investors who want to strip the assets and pay the proceeds to themselves. Owing cheap long-term money on an illiquid office building in Cleveland might suit their purposes nicely.

 

Just speculating ...

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There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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8 hours ago, CleveFan said:

1 million square feet for a potential new SHW headquarters, according to KJP’s blog.  By comparison,  The Terminal Tower has 577,000 square feet, 200 Public Square has 1.2 million feet of office space and the Key Tower Itself about 1.25 million. The perfect new neighbor on the block...hopefully...

 

So the requirements for this thing would be too large for the Thunderbird project on Scranton then? 

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I don't think anything is too big for a huge blank slate like that.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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31 minutes ago, KJP said:

I don't think anything is too big for a huge blank slate like that.

Could the Scranton Peninsula accommodate thousands of employees commuting in/out each morning and evening through the limited routes in and out each work day from such a facility?

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11 hours ago, simplythis said:

KJP:  Any chance WHATSOEVER that this tower be taller than Key bank?

 

Doubtful. I don't expect this to be much larger than the 2016 plan which was 900,000 sf. I'm told the new version will be about 1 million sf and the source specifically heard 40 stories. But some incomplete information suggests the RFP will include an option for expanding the existing building and partially vacating the old. We shall see.

 

11 hours ago, CleCaneFan said:

Could the Scranton Peninsula accommodate thousands of employees commuting in/out each morning and evening through the limited routes in and out each work day from such a facility?

 

It would be much easier if the Eagle Road ramp was restored. 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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If this building ever comes to be, given its prominent location, I would be more concerned with its street level design rather than its height. Of course I have never been a height junkie like many on the board.

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Thing is, depending on the winning proposal, SHW may not end up on the Jacobs lot.

 

But I agree with you....another tall tower like Key that's dead at street level would be a partial win.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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9 hours ago, Htsguy said:

If this building ever comes to be, given its prominent location, I would be more concerned with its street level design rather than its height. Of course I have never been a height junkie like many on the board.

Your name states otherwise lol

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I'm curious about the Jacobs lot being offered up to Amazon if SW has in fact been planning for as long as suggested.  KJP, any info?

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They stopped planning for it in 2016. Now, it appears that any site within 1 mile of SHW's Canal Road founding will be on the table. 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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where does the need for space come from? do they do a big hiring and expansion thing? move existing tc offices to public square? or move in minneapolis valspar offices? any guesses?

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1 minute ago, mrnyc said:

where does the need for space come from? do they do a big hiring and expansion thing? move existing tc offices to public square? or move in minneapolis valspar offices? any guesses?

 

Some answers:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/10/is-sherwin-williams-ready-to-paint-sky.html?m=1


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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7 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Wait if this gets built, will they bring the Valspar employees over?

Unsure. I work for SW and I've heard no plans about getting rid of the Minneapolis branch. It would definitely make sense moving them over though... Because having everyone in one place would make everything more efficient.

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8 minutes ago, CLE_Millennial said:

Unsure. I work for SW and I've heard no plans about getting rid of the Minneapolis branch. It would definitely make sense moving them over though... Because having everyone in one place would make everything more efficient.

I would imagine so though because reading KJP's article, they are packed inside the 900,000 Sq. ft. landmark tower. Building a 900,000 Sq. Ft. tower and moving the landmark employees there would put them in the same situation. I would think they keep the Landmark employees where they are, move the suburban employees to the tower along with AT LEAST the R&D Valspar employees to Cleveland (unless they are here on Hinkley Pkwy.). I would guess they'd keep enough employees in Minneapolis for a regional HQ but have the new tower serve as a space for the suburban offices along with a good portion of the Valspar employees back in Minneapolis. 

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SHW shares Landmark with other tenants who occupy about 100,000 to 150,000 sf. The tenants are ID'd in my "Paint the Sky" blog: http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/10/is-sherwin-williams-ready-to-paint-sky.html along with other leasing details. SHW can't or won't move them out of there, because SHW has general offices in four other buildings totaling about 145,000 sf. SHW could potentially expand into another 90,000 sf on Hinckley Industrial Parkway if necessary.

 

Landmark is a beautiful building. But the old lady is pushing 90. It is inefficient in terms of its energy usage and in terms of floor space usage, technology and collaborative settings. I understand that SHW is a firm that holds to its traditions dearly. But a Fortune 500 company that's growing like SHW is, needs an HQ that looks forward with aspirations as much as it looks back at its achievements.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Wow, just wow. SHW's board is going to have a monumental decision to make.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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8 minutes ago, KJP said:

Wow, just wow. SHW's board is going to have a monumental decision to make.

 

Care to elaborate??

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Is it related to this?

 

https://investors.sherwin-williams.com/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=SWIR%2FSWIRLayout&cid=1385095276435&pagename=SWIRWrapper

 

Sherwin-Williams Mourns the Death of Lead Director John M. Stropki 

CLEVELAND, OHIO, May 13, 2019 - The Sherwin-Williams Company (NYSE: SHW) today announced with great sadness that Lead Director John M. Stropki passed away unexpectedly on May 11, 2019 at the age of 68.    

Mr. Stropki was elected to the Sherwin-Williams Board of Directors in July 2009 and had served as Lead Director since April 2015. He also served as a member of the Board’s Compensation and Management Development Committee and its Nominating and Corporate Governance Committee. As former Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Lincoln Electric Holdings, Inc., Mr. Stropki brought significant management, technical, manufacturing, financial and leadership expertise to the Board. His 41 years at Lincoln Electric also provided him with extensive knowledge of employee development and engagement, as well as important perspectives in leading and operating an industrial business across diverse global end markets.


“All of us at Sherwin-Williams are deeply saddened by the sudden and unexpected passing of our colleague and friend, John Stropki,” said Sherwin-Williams Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, John G. Morikis. “John was a dedicated and engaged Board member and a trusted advisor. His prudent counsel and extensive business acumen helped to make us a better company in many ways and will have a lasting impact. We will greatly miss his wisdom and guidance. The entire Sherwin-Williams family extends our deepest condolences to John’s wife, Liz, and the Stropki family.”

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