Cleveland: Downtown: Sherwin-Williams Headquarters

[MissinOhio]

4 hours ago, mtnbikefan said:

 

Saw some budget talk - $357M for HQ and $322M for R&D

So the $357 million is specifically for the Jacob's lot?  Would the $322 million be spread out amongst Weston and Brecksville?  No doubt this is all preliminary numbers in the tweet, but just curious how those figures pan out over the multiple areas of investment they are making in Cuyahoga County.  

[LlamaLawyer]

19 minutes ago, MissinOhio said:

So the $357 million is specifically for the Jacob's lot?  Would the $322 million be spread out amongst Weston and Brecksville?  No doubt this is all preliminary numbers in the tweet, but just curious how those figures pan out over the multiple areas of investment they are making in Cuyahoga County.  

 

No, the $357 includes the superblock and Jacob's lot.

[KJP]

I don't think we know for certain what's going to be built where. There's always a possibility that a 10-level parking garage could be built on the Jacobs Lot with a 40-story tower above it. I doubt that will be the case, however. I expect SHW to put the parking deck on part of the Weston lots and *possibly* some offices there too, leaving much of it undeveloped for future additions. The early massing and a  is all I have to go on at this point.

[CleveFan]

9 hours ago, KJP said:

I don't think we know for certain what's going to be built where. There's always a possibility that a 10-level parking garage could be built on the Jacobs Lot with a 40-story tower above it. I doubt that will be the case, however. I expect SHW to put the parking deck on part of the Weston lots and *possibly* some offices there too, leaving much of it undeveloped for future additions. The early massing and a  is all I have to go on at this point.

@KJP, just to clarify - I'm hopeful that your two sources are right about the HQ tower rivaling 200 Public Square  because I think most of us would like to see a 4th skyscraper on Public Square to forever join the "Big 3"  However, your recent article that mapped out number of stories based on floor plate size assumed 1,000,000 square feet of office space all in the main tower, correct?   

Spoiler

 

 

[Silent Matt]

On 5/9/2020 at 7:36 PM, KJP said:

 

Are there any eyes on the ground? Did any additional equipment arrive or did any drilling happen?

[KJP]

8 hours ago, CleveFan said:

@KJP, just to clarify - I'm hopeful that your two sources are right about the HQ tower rivaling 200 Public Square  because I think most of us would like to see a 4th skyscraper on Public Square to forever join the "Big 3"  However, your recent article that mapped out number of stories based on floor plate size assumed 1,000,000 square feet of office space all in the main tower, correct?   

  Hide contents

 

 

 

No I used floor plate sizes of recent and proposed buildings to estimate the headquarters' height based on the 1 million square foot figure. If SHW's tower has average floorplates of 25,000 SF, it can put the entire 1 million square feet in one tower that "rivals the height of 200 PS." But if the floorplates average 20,000 SF, it cannot put the entire 1 million square feet in one tower that "rivals the height of 200 PS." It would exceed and instead rival Terminal Tower and possibly even Key Tower if SHW's tower would have a crown of some type. But I was told that SHW will "not rival Terminal Tower." In that case, approximately 200,000 SF could end up on the Superblock either next to or above the 900- to 1,000-space parking deck(s).

Edited May 16, 2020 by KJP
Added the quote about SHW not rivaling Terminal Tower

[Frmr CLEder]

^ A building to rival 200 PS would be just lovely!  I'll take it!

 

While only the third tallest, 200 PS's skyline presence is and has always been bold and demonstrative; even after Key Tower was built.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Frmr CLEder

[Cleburger]

3 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

^ A building to rival 200 PS would be just lovely!  I'll take it!

 

While only the third tallest, 200 PS's skyline presence is and has always been bold and demonstrative; even after Key Tower was built.

 

Likewise!   However, I wonder how many naysayers will complain of the lack of afternoon evening sun in the corporate plaza known as Public Square.   Mayor Jackson could try to limit the height to a Sherwin Williams strip mall store in the interest of avoiding terrorist attacks in the shade.... 

[Frmr CLEder]

^ There's this thing called The Mall; specifically Malls B or C. It's just a short walk away.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Frmr CLEder

[KJP]

49 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Likewise!   However, I wonder how many naysayers will complain of the lack of afternoon evening sun in the corporate plaza known as Public Square.

 

An intelligent friend of mine who appreciates urbanism (even though he lives in Strongsville) is opposed to having a tall building on the Jacobs Lot for this very reason.

[Frmr CLEder]

Those individuals must be opposed to 200 PS and TCC too. Key Tower is pretty much the only building that doesn't block the sunlight.

[KJP]

3 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Those individuals must be opposed to 200 PS and TCC too. Key Tower is pretty much the only building that doesn't block the sunlight.

 

Can't stop something that's already there. Precedence is a very powerful thing with some people. It's amazing how they seem to think that an act of God put a building there, or that it was somehow meant to be, and that anything that isn't already there doesn't belong.

[Frmr CLEder]

^ Those individuals must hate or be very fearful of Manhattan. They should live in the country then.

[Cleburger]

6 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Those individuals must be opposed to 200 PS and TCC too. Key Tower is pretty much the only building that doesn't block the sunlight.

Key Tower is to the north of the square.

[Mov2Ohio]

Actually, this may be my favorite view of DT Cleveland. A new SW Tower would either be eclipsed by 200 PS, or fill in that gap between 200 PS and Key Tower.

[Oldmanladyluck]

^If on the square, at that angle a tower would definitely fill in the gap.

[Frmr CLEder]

The Lumen's prominence certainly is a great addition to the skyline.

[jbdad2]

I don't see Lumen.  Shouldn't it be right of CSU and left of Keith?

[Watertiger1962]

16 minutes ago, jbdad2 said:

I don't see Lumen.  Shouldn't it be right of CSU and left of Keith?

Old picture before Lumen tower was built.

[Frmr CLEder]

A little fuzzy; must be mistaking the "9" for Lumen?

 

Even better.

 

We need a photo that includes the Lumen.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Frmr CLEder

[Geowizical]

I'm thinking something like this...

...Just line up the render image, a little Photoshop wizardry, and you've got yourself endless fun  

 @Frmr CLEder @Mov2Ohio

[w28th]

Hey make them blend in so we can blur our eyes and imagine the real thing

[KJP]

29 minutes ago, w28th said:

Hey make them blend in so we can blur our eyes and imagine the real thing

 

Hey, Cleveland could use some bright orange buildings downtown!  

[urbanetics_]

^Hey, if Moscow can get an orange skyscraper, who’s to say SW can’t cover the Earth - er, Cleveland - with orange too!

[KJP]

What a fantastic idea! If SHW wants to attract the best and the brightest young minds, don't build a building that looks like the rest of the Cleveland skyline. In fact, that's one of the biggest reasons why SHW wants a new HQ tower. Their 90-year-old HQ isn't what young people want from an office environment.

[Sapper Daddy]

31 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

^Hey, if Moscow can get an orange skyscraper, who’s to say SW can’t cover the Earth - er, Cleveland - with orange too!

That’s a cool color for sure.  Moscow is the real life sim city.  Still, I wouldn’t trade Terminal Tower for all seven (maybe eight) towers in this view.

[GISguy]

10 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

That’s a cool color for sure.  Moscow is the real life sim city.  Still, I wouldn’t trade Terminal Tower for all seven (maybe eight) towers in this view.

I used to work in a brown windowed office in Independence. The only thing I remember is the dreary interior- it could be 75 and blue skies but with the brown windows it looked like a storm was rolling in. Long story short,  blue and clear glass might not be sexy/unique as shiny as a colored tower but it lends itself to a good office environment.

Edited May 20, 2020 by GISguy
I think clear glass looks amazing, just wanted to clarify my point

[CleveFan]

Blue looks pretty sexy on the Lumen and Hilton - I’d be fine with that for SW - especially if ithe tower is not “just” a rectangle/box  but has a tapered effect, a spire or something unique in its design lines. . Some “signature”  lighting at the top would be great. 

[superior]

9 hours ago, urbanetics_ said:

^Hey, if Moscow can get an orange skyscraper, who’s to say SW can’t cover the Earth - er, Cleveland - with orange too!

 

I actually think that this thought would add color and life to the skyline.  It's forward thinking and would attract attention.  I believe an orange or green skyscraper would be phenomenal.

[Frmr CLEder]

There was mention upthread of concerns that a tall tower on PS would block sunlight.

 

A reflective glass tower could mitigate that impact.

[JSC216]

The majority of the tower will also not be using the entire site so it could be pushed back to the west 3rd side of the site which would help somewhat. 

[MyPhoneDead]

I just hope the Public Square portion has some ground floor use that the public can take advantage of whether it's retail, a restaurant or something creative. Public Square buildings are so closed off to the public and this is the last piece of the puzzle to get it right. 

[JSC216]

16 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I just hope the Public Square portion has some ground floor use that the public can take advantage of whether it's retail, a restaurant or something creative. Public Square buildings are so closed off to the public and this is the last piece of the puzzle to get it right. 

Yeah that has been a huge problem with the square and one of the reasons the north side has always felt especially dead. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistakes here. At minimum design it so that the space could be easily converted once downtown Cleveland has a better retail space market. 

[Cleburger]

1 hour ago, JSC216 said:

Yeah that has been a huge problem with the square and one of the reasons the north side has always felt especially dead. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistakes here. At minimum design it so that the space could be easily converted once downtown Cleveland has a better retail space market. 

 

I don't see a conservative, legacy company like Sherwin Williams having retail on the ground floor of their main building.   I feel the best we can hope for is the parking ramps include them in the designs to the west.  

[tastybunns]

Hell why don't they just do this? "Cover the Earth"
 

[gg707]

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

I don't see a conservative, legacy company like Sherwin Williams having retail on the ground floor of their main building.   I feel the best we can hope for is the parking ramps include them in the designs to the west.  

 

I can't find it, but I remember someone suggesting on here a flagship Sherwin Williams retail store on the ground floor, which would be totally awesome.  A Sherwin Williams museum, combined with a paint science exhibit (in conjunction with Great Lakes Science Center) would also be a fun public facing way to make the street level lively.

[PoshSteve]

15 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Blue looks pretty sexy on the Lumen and Hilton - I’d be fine with that for SW - especially if ithe tower is not “just” a rectangle/box  but has a tapered effect, a spire or something unique in its design lines. . Some “signature”  lighting at the top would be great. 

For signature lighting, look no further than the same orange skyscraper (Mercury City is the name, btw) for inspiration. It's been nicknamed the Eye of Sauron, especially on cloudy nights when the ads are red/orange in color. While the orange glass is odd during the day, it's absolutely incredible at night with reflections of the city. Imagine Terminal Tower reflected on that. While I think any type of glass will be a welcome addition to the Cleveland skyline, I really hope we can get great lighting on whatever the form of the tower is. Cleveland already has great night lighting with the Big 3. SW without it would really stand out in the wrong way.

 

[KJP]

4 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

For signature lighting, look no further than the same orange skyscraper (Mercury City is the name, btw) for inspiration. It's been nicknamed the Eye of Sauron, especially on cloudy nights when the ads are red/orange in color. While the orange glass is odd during the day, it's absolutely incredible at night with reflections of the city. Imagine Terminal Tower reflected on that. While I think any type of glass will be a welcome addition to the Cleveland skyline, I really hope we can get great lighting on whatever the form of the tower is. Cleveland already has great night lighting with the Big 3. SW without it would really stand out in the wrong way.

 

 

That's just an amazing looking building.

[CleveFan]

Just for context, the Mercury City Tower has1,800,000 square feet and cost 1 Billion dollars when completed in 2013 - it’s nice to dream, but......

[KJP]

1 minute ago, CleveFan said:

Just for context, the Mercury City Tower has1,800,000 square feet and cost 1 Billion dollars when completed in 2013 - it’s nice to dream, but......

 

       <---- rain

       <---- parade

[Frmr CLEder]

Throughout this pandemic, SW has been hard at work, delivering paints and supplies in S. Florida. While there's a lot of Q2-Q4 uncertainty, I always see their little blue vans and trucks everywhere on the roads.

 

It makes me Cleveland proud!

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Frmr CLEder

[GISguy]

Perhaps it's more of the downtown thread's speed or NEO business, but this is definitely reassuring when it comes to thinking about their behind the scenes work on the new tower. Maybe I'm overthinking it but 100k isn't exactly a drop in the bucket either.

 

[Clefan98]

Cleveland City Council approves tax incentives to help Sherwin-Williams build its new headquarters

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/06/cleveland-city-council-approves-tax-incentives-to-help-sherwin-williams-build-its-new-headquarters.html

[John D. Baumgardner]

With so much happening in recent month's, I know that many of us have had our thoughts elsewhere ...

 

However, I must wonder and ask if anyone has become hip to any solid information on the actual look and scale of Sherwin-Williams forthcoming corporate headquarters tower.

 

It's been several months, so I thought perhaps someone on the forum may have heard a sliver or two from somewhere.

 

I'm still cautiously optimistic that the company will build something unique and even transformative in spite of their conservatism.

 

@KJP, any tidbits to share? 

[Guest skiwest]

Previously, slivers of information were obtained from conversations overheard in elevators.  But with social distancing, that might be a little more difficult now.

[GISguy]

22 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Previously, slivers of information were obtained from conversations overheard in elevators.  But with social distancing, that might be a little more difficult now.

 

idk how many UO folks are on r/Cleveland, but this 'elevator talk' reminds me of the "I paid a little extra for the window seat" jokes that were going around for a while lol

[Oldmanladyluck]

Calling @KJP, come in... please respond...

 

@KJP:

 

 

[KJP]

All indications are that it's going to be a skyline-changer. From what I've been able to gather, the info I had in my last article on the subject still holds true...

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/sherwin-williams-hq-may-be-citys-fourth.html

 

It is probably going to be the city's fourth-tallest tower and potentially the third tallest. There is a small chance it could even be the second-tallest. Why the second-tallest?

 

If the 1 million-square-foot tower averages floorplates of 20,000 SF (which is between Fifth Third and Key towers), then it's a 50-story tower. If the floor heights are 15.5 feet like in Key Tower or 16.5 feet in Fifth Third Tower, then it could range from 775 to 825 feet tall.

 

But it's more likely that the 1 million-SF tower will have larger floor plates considering the size of the lot from which it would rise. Even with significant step-backs with elevation, the floorplates may average with a higher number. Ernst & Young Tower, the city's newest office tower, has 25,800-square-foot floorplates. Although One nuCLEus Place is proposed to have floorplates averaging 19,500 SF in the office tower. At 25,800 SF average per floor, SHW's tower would top out at 39 floors. At 19,500 SF/floor, SHW's tower would top out at 51 floors. If we use Ernst & Young's 15.7-foot floor height x 39 floors, that's a 612-foot building -- Cleveland's fourth-tallest. If we use nuCLEus' 14-foot floor height x 51 floors, that's a 714-foot-tall building, becoming the city's second-tallest.

 

Of course there's other combinations that can result in other outcomes. But you can see how this tower could be the city's second-tallest. We shall soon see!

Edited July 2, 2020 by KJP

[jmicha]

That also doesn't take into account any architectural crowns which I'm holding out hope it'll have. Surrounding Public Square with towers which mostly have crowns/spires that reach upwards is a good look I hope this continues. 200 Euclid is obviously flatter, but the stepping back at the top achieves a visual crown that doesn't necessarily add height but looks good as well for a PoMo tower.

[mrclifton88]

When you say we shall soon see... is that like... later this afternoon...? Next week?  Next month?    We are goin crazy here!