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Cleveland: Downtown: The Beacon

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I knew it.  Something is happening and we're all having a "cleveland.bomb" moment. 

 

Apparently no other business has SUCCESSFULLY moved into the space and you folks complain BEFORE even seeing LTP, financial package, construction & building plans/blueprints, product lines, decor, etc.

 

This could turn out to be a really interesting and as a café keep people on the street since it is in a prominent location.

 

I sincerely hope that the folks here on UO can be impartial until all detail and information on this project are released, before condemning the business.

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^That's exactly what I'm saying, MTS.  Don't get upset about it just because it has something to do with a church.  We don't have any details at all yet, and you have no idea what it will be like. 

 

Clvlndr, it might interest you to know that there used to be a similar type of establishment in Old Brooklyn on Pearl Road about seven or eight years ago.  The place would have live performances by local musicians a couple of nights a week (and no, they were not just a bunch of Christian bands, they were just talented local musicians that played while people were drinking coffee).  It was actually an alright place and brought a lot of people out from the neighborhood.  I'm giving it a chance in case it becomes something like that.  At no point did anyone say that they plan on opening this up to only Christians and discriminating against others.  It's not a matter of who is or is not spiritual.  It is a matter of us not having hardly any information and people already saying that it is bad news because they read the word "church" in there.  As I said before, that doesn't even make sense.  Just wait for more information before saying it's terrible.

 

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All I'm saying is that I am having a hard time picturing myself or anyone I know (even the Christians) feeling at all comfortable in such an establishment. It sounds like a fine idea for somewhere else, but it's bizarre that it's going to be at such a prominent location.

 

Oh well, the project probably will never even get off the ground, so what am I complaining about?

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All I'm saying is that I am having a hard time picturing myself or anyone I know (even the Christians) feeling at all comfortable in such an establishment. It sounds like a fine idea for somewhere else, but it's bizarre that it's going to be at such a prominent location.

 

Oh well, the project probably will never even get off the ground, so what am I complaining about?

 

 

 

This is the root of the problem.  We've been "conditioned" here in Cleveland to point out the NEGATIVE in almost anything.  We rarely have an announcement where people look at the positive or outside the box.

 

Seriously for all the cons you "naysers" have listed, why is it so hard to list reasons why this could be successful??

 

Not one person here knows enough information about the project to form a clear opinion.

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LovesIt, you hit the nail... As open as this Church is trying to market this cafe, did you count the number of times the man in the video said the words "Christian" and "God"?  That's clearly NOT a place that's going to make all comers feel comfortable.  However subtle, I can very easily forsee a degree of proselytizing going on there. Cleveland pride, Brooklyn is one thing -- let's face it, there's not nearly the diversity there -- on all levels -- that you'll have in the center of an up & coming downtown of a major city.  So the comparison is not a good one.

 

MTS, that nothing is in 515 may be a result of a number of things: lack of aggressive, coherent marketing by the owners; by the Downtown Alliance; by Frank Jackson, by Joe Cimperman, whomever; maybe it's been the ECP mess that's finally, finally clearing  -- I'm not prepared to say why 515, so far in its 3 years, has been a total failure retail-wise; why the talk of building condos on top has gone silent, esp given the initial and great success of nearby E. 4th street.  But I'm sure not ready to throw my hands up and say: let's just let any-old-body move in just for the pure sake of occupancy esp given the fact that this location should have/deserves to have better.

 

We've been "conditioned" here in Cleveland to point out the NEGATIVE in almost anything.  We rarely have an announcement where people look at the positive or outside the box.

 

That's a cheap and unfair shot, MTS.  If anything, if you've read my posts (re: Zocalo's, re: the Stonebridge Marketplace, even re: the new and somewhat hazy FEB design people are going off about) I more often DEFEND new establishments from what I sometimes see as negativity and unfair UO criticism.  On this board, I'm eager to see what new and exciting is coming into downtown, and am esp pumped by what's going on on E 4th.  What I'm saying, and what LovesIt seems to be saying is that, THIS PARTICULAR development may not be what's BEST for that particular location.  For that particular location, I just don't feel its a good fit, plus I feel lower Euclid should have a more traditional and, yes, more upscale retailer.  I frankly don't know who these people are; they don't even have a church building. We need and deserve better for downtown.

 

... that said, I'd probably feel differently if lower Euclid were teaming with retail and restaurants and this proposed church cafe was fitting in amidst a bunch of success stories... But they're not; they're the 1st, and I think we ought not be going in that direction.

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^Why in the world would Joe Cipermann and Frank Jackson be specifically marketing 515 Euclid, a private enterprise, (even if they even had the time with everything on their plates) over any of the other thousands of private businesses, projects and enterprises in town.  In fact the PD would probably begin an investigation of them if they did and the subpoenas would then fly.

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I wonder if this were something less religiously polarizing like a Tibetan monastery/Mongolian bbq if there would be as much reticence.

 

Personally, I say if they can get the money to pull it off, then have at it. I hate to phrase it like this, but downtown is for the people who want it. If Euclid sprouts country western restaurants and clubs with a lively Christian coffeeshop, then whoopdeedoo. If it goes out of business, then that's that. This is America and everyone has a right to give their ideas a whirl. It's not like these people are the Northeast Ohio chapter of the KKK. I'm not into the Evangelical thing, but it could be cool if this place created the Christian version of Phoenix coffee house in Lakewood, which is OVERRUN with teenagers all year long. They're just sitting around, hanging out playing guitar. Not bothering anyone as far as I can tell.

 

Personally, my favorite neighborhoods are the ones that grow organically, built on the imagination and guts of all sorts of people. Sure, a place like SoHo is cool, but I would have much preferred it before some suit dissected the whole place in order to squeeze out as many pennies as possible per square foot. BOORRINGGG.

 

All that said, I have no idea if this idea will work, but I can't think of any good reason to tell them they can't try.

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^Why in the world would Joe Cipermann and Frank Jackson be specifically marketing 515 Euclid, a private enterprise, (even if they even had the time with everything on their plates) over any of the other thousands of private businesses, projects and enterprises in town. In fact the PD would probably begin an investigation of them if they did and the subpoenas would then fly.

 

Because as politiicans who have a genuine interest in the financial health of the city's living room -- downtown -- it behooves them to encourage retail and development just as any interested politician would, esp in a row of storefronts in such a critical location that have sat empty for 3 years.  To hell with what the crappy Plain Dealer may or may not do.

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I think a coffeehouse and music venue is a good fit for the Euclid/E.4th/Gateway area - not everyone is a drinker, and maybe it keeps some people downtown after their dinner, and it  adds some life to the sidewalk at night too.  I don't care if they serve me a Psalm 23 latte with an Ezekiel scone as long as it tastes good. 

 

I have eaten at In-N-Out burger and my double-double wrapper having a Bible verse reference on it didn't change my experience at all.

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All that said, I have no idea if this idea will work, but I can't think of any good reason to tell them they can't try.

 

Exactly.  "I don't like Christians" is not a reason.  If it were just a regular coffee house, I think there'd be a different reaction here. 

 

I think a coffeehouse and music venue is a good fit for the Euclid/E.4th/Gateway area - not everyone is a drinker, and maybe it keeps some people downtown after their dinner, and it adds some life to the sidewalk at night too. I don't care if they serve me a Psalm 23 latte with an Ezekiel scone as long as it tastes good.

 

I have eaten at In-N-Out burger and my double-double wrapper having a Bible verse reference on it didn't change my experience at all.

 

I feel the same way.  If you don't want to have a cafe there, then that's your opinion, but this might help to infuse more life into the area.  I don't think it makes sense to shut it down just yet.  It might end up being a good thing.  I agree with MTS in this case.  We just don't know enough to put it down yet. 

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"Mickey will be the chef and the missionary in the marketplace".

 

That was the type of talk that had me a little concerned.  I had visions of the Church of Scientology here in D.C. with its members out on the sidewalks trying to coax passerbyers inside.   

 

While I don't necessarily have a problem with this "church in the city" and think that they seem to do some admirable things as well as help to promote and make downtown a livable place, I don't see peoples concerns as being "typically Cleveland negative". 

 

I understand the concern of "best use of a space" etc.. as has been the argument for the May Co. building (Cadillac Ranch), since it is such a high profile, visible space (and I would guess pricey) and I'm guessing most of us would have envisioned something other than this.  I think this is nothing more than the urban planner in us. 

 

Ultimately if this happens, and it is nothing more than a coffee house with good food and a nice atmosphere, then I think it could be a good thing, although I think it could certainly turn many people off if they use it as a source to recruit for this church though.  If thats the case, it ultimately could fail (or not, just wouldnt feel welcoming to everybody), and something else would go in.   

 

I don't really see it as the same as the Trinity commons coffeeshop in that I always got the sense that Trinity Commons coffee shop leases the space, which has the benefit of being part of the architecturally beautiful Trinity Cathedral, where this is a church leasing space for a church related venture. 

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mickey doesnt seem very religious  :-D

 

I'm VERY excited about this place. its a nice new cafe that you can go to. thats about as far as i see it. on sundays it closes for worship, but whats wrong with that?

 

i see this as a very great development that will certainly catch the attention of people. i am excited for them.

 

"Ultimately if this happens, and it is nothing more than a coffee house with good food and a nice atmosphere, then I think it could be a good thing, although I think it could certainly turn many people off if they use it as a source to recruit for this church though.  If thats the case, it ultimately could fail (or not, just wouldnt feel welcoming to everybody), and something else would go in."

 

exactly.

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I understand the concern of "best use of a space" etc.. as has been the argument for the May Co. building (Cadillac Ranch), since it is such a high profile, visible space (and I would guess pricey) and I'm guessing most of us would have envisioned something other than this. I think this is nothing more than the urban planner in us.

 

Now that's a much better argument than what's been being posted here.  I agree with RyanScav...for now.  We'll see what happens as more information comes out, but at this piont I don't see any indication that these people are starting a coffee house to tell their customers that they are all going to hell. 

 

I'm VERY excited about this place. its a nice new cafe that you can go to. thats about as far as i see it. on sundays it closes for worship, but whats wrong with that?

 

For the information that we have right now, that seems like a pretty good way to sum it up. 

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I don't know how I feel about this. I like Jamiec's viewpoints and I also like Cleveland Pride and Clevlndr's side. I just hope this place takes into account that it's one of the best corner storefronts in all of NE Ohio and Cleveland. Take advantage of that and tell yourself, "God has answered my prayers" because 515 Euclid should not be vacant, since circa 2006.

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Rule no. 1, please no automatic/press-one-button espresso machine!  I want someone to grind the beans, press them, and foam my milk for each drink! If that isn't the biggest turn-off, I don't know what is!

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Rule no. 1, please no automatic/press-one-button espresso machine!  I want someone to grind the beans, press them, and foam my milk for each drink! If that isn't the biggest turn-off, I don't know what is!

 

I'll second that! 

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I just don't trust them to pull off a good coffee shop. If the goal is to promote another agenda, it will be all too obvious. I've seen a couple of these in the south (but in strip malls of course) and they are just plain weird and sappy.

 

Could they really pull in enough money to pay such high rents?

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^Along the same lines...this whole discussion has been prompted by a self-produced on-line video and a promotional blog post, no?  To me this whole operation is in the "wishful thinking" box until I read something in the PD or hear something from McCleveland about lease negotiation rumors or something more newsy like that.

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Well, the good news is that if they don't pull off a good coffee shop, we will soon have a vacant storefront to fill again, and if they do pull off a good coffee shop, then we will have a good coffee shop.  I don't see the the need for the angst about this.

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Rule no. 1, please no automatic/press-one-button espresso machine!  I want someone to grind the beans, press them, and foam my milk for each drink! If that isn't the biggest turn-off, I don't know what is!

I'll second that! 

I'll third that, time to bring it out of a committee for a vote!

 

In my experience, its more the customers that make the experience remarkable/regrettable. If I walked into a coffee establishment packed full of showboating hallelujah people having a full on tent revival, I'd turn around and high tail it back to Latin Mass.

 

Hopefully that location will bring in all sorts of people from around the community, making it more than just a storefront-as-a-church-club.

 

Yes that building desperately needs something in it, being right there near E4th, it looks strange to see a shiny new parking garage with a completely empty ground floor retail space.

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Rule no. 1, please no automatic/press-one-button espresso machine!  I want someone to grind the beans, press them, and foam my milk for each drink! If that isn't the biggest turn-off, I don't know what is!

I'll second that! 

I'll third that, time to bring it out of a committee for a vote!

 

In my experience, its more the customers that make the experience remarkable/regrettable. If I walked into a coffee establishment packed full of showboating hallelujah people having a full on tent revival, I'd turn around and high tail it back to Latin Mass.

 

Hopefully that location will bring in all sorts of people from around the community, making it more than just a storefront-as-a-church-club.

 

Yes that building desperately needs something in it, being right there near E4th, it looks strange to see a shiny new parking garage with a completely empty ground floor retail space.

 

Well it cant be any worse than a pentecostal mass in latin - I attended one a few weeks ago - do not make the same mistake.  I've never seen so many people "catch the spirit"!

 

The empty ground level space is maddening.  I totally see a Crate & Barrel, William-Sonoma, West Elm, Ethan Allen or Pottery Barn in that space.

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Something is going on in one of the 515 spaces. I saw an electrical contractor in there this afternoon. I checked out the Gateway Church website gatewaycleveland.com and it said on February 5th they will be holding a fundraiser for Nexus (coffee shop proposed for 515). This might actually happen. I kind of laughed at it when I first heard about it, but I'll be happy to see one less empty space on Euclid.

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There was a theory last week that the church coffeehouse was moving forward.  Can't remember if it was confirmed.

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I checked out Nexuscleveland.com and it appears that the project isn't in 515. The video on the website shows the Hat Factory on West 6th as the location.

 

 

 

 

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Correct on nexus.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello,

    As some of you may or may not know I am part of an organization called Gateway

Church in downtown Cleveland. We have been in Cleveland for a almost 2 years and

our objective as an organization is to live in the community and service the

city of Cleveland.

 

On Thursday, February 5th we will be holding a Kick-off/ Fundraising event for the

Nexus Cafe and Coffeehouse. This is a coffeehouse we are trying to open on West 6th

in the Hat Factory. We are modeling this coffeehouse after Ebenezer's Coffeehouse in

Washington D.C. (http://ebenezerscoffeehouse.com/). Basically all profits from Nexus

will go towards supporting community outreach projects. We have teamed up with other

non-profit organizations such as WSEM and Downtown Cleveland Alliance, who have the

same goal as Nexus...improving downtown Cleveland through volunteerism. On February

5th, we will transform the West 6th location into what Nexus will look, taste and

feel.  Our business plan is complete, designs have been made, and some funds have

been raised. Therefore this event is not just a fundraiser but more importantly a

chance for residents, business professionals and people that love Cleveland, to

share their ideas and become involved in what will ultimately be a cafe run by the

community and for the community. If you can't tell... I am on the Marketing Team for

Nexus!

 

More information and the RSVP for this event is provided in the link below:

www.nexuscleveland.com.

 

I unfortunately will be out of town for the event. Please feel free to forward this

information onto others that would be interested in this unique community outreach

concept that will hopefully change Cleveland.

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Beatriz

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Interesting choice of location for a church group-- right on debauchery lane, right where they hold Rover-fest.  They might as well set up in the bathroom of a strip club. 

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Does anyone have any clues as to what is going into the large retail space in 515?  The crews are really moving along but there aren't any "coming soon" signs.  Food?  Retail?  Sales office for tower units?  Ok, pipe dream there but it'll be nice to see that space filled.

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i think people thought it was the spot for nexus... which you helped debunk.  I haven't heard anything yet, though I do have a call into someone who would definitely know. 

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The information posted here recently has led us to believe that the aforementioned coffee shop is headed to the WHD.  In addition to the opening of the Erie Island Coffee Company today, I was kind of hoping that it's something different...  In the past 15-18 months, we've seen 4 distinct coffee shops open downtown (Moko, 2 Phoenix, and Erie Island).

 

 

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I walk by this every day.  It looks like some V shaped thing is in the back, not sure if it is a doorway.  Also looks like track lighting in front right by the window.  So could be display for art.

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I walk by this every day.  It looks like some V shaped thing is in the back, not sure if it is a doorway.  Also looks like track lighting in front right by the window.  So could be display for art.

 

Welcome tedders55  :wave:

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^Thanks for the info.  Better than an empty storefront, but not exactly a big streetlife generator.  Funny that the landlord poo-pooed the furniture district idea when first presented...

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It looks like Environments 4 Business, office furniture dealership based out of Akron... primarily rep allsteel.

 

http://www.thinke4b.com/

 

 

 

Thats it!

 

Wow, their website is already updated with the new address info!

 

I like this place!  They've got a door I want!  :clap:

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It's certainly not traditional retail... but office furniture showrooms can be very active and vibrant ground level spaces.

 

Agree. Also, this will leave maybe 3 or 4 empty storefronts between Public Square and East 9th depending on what the Maron's already have planned for their two empties. This strip has come a long way.

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Euclid Avenue proves the right environment for this business

By STAN BULLARD

 

4:30 am, March 16, 2009

 

Lower Euclid Avenue in downtown Cleveland on April 1 will boast a new street-level tenant that is neither a bar nor a restaurant — typical for the area around the East Fourth Street Neighborhood.

 

That is when Akron-based “environments 4 business,” a provider of design, construction and turnkey services for workplaces, will open at 515 Euclid Ave. Its Cleveland operation is in two of the three storefront spaces that are part of a glass-fronted parking garage at the address.

 

Dubbed a resource center, the office will serve as a showroom for office furnishings and related items sold by the company, said president Harvey Schumacher. It also will be a work space for eight employees who will divide their time between downtown Cleveland and its Akron office.

 

Mr. Schumacher said the company is a dealer for office supplier Allsteel Inc., which mandated the downtown Cleveland location as part of an agreement for his company to serve 16 Ohio counties.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090316/SUB1/903139949/1004&Profile=1004

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