Cincinnati: Crime & Safety Discussion

[seicer]

Those who can afford the mortgages (or, who want to) or want to flee the apparent downturn of the inner city, especially if they have children. White flight has been documented by several economists, although it is still a fringe theory, and it begun with the rapid development of the suburbs post-World War II, the availability of cheap mortgages, the decline in investment in the inner-city in education, public works, etc., the advent of public housing projects, etc. Those with children were 65% more likely to move out in the 1960s and 1970s to subdivisions.

 

Of course, it stands to say that yes, those with money can afford to move further and further out, where home prices -- up until now -- were relatively unaffordable to those making a lower-middle and lower-income salary. The recent housing crisis should alleviate some of those woes and bring housing prices back to realistic levels.

 

Have you looked at inflation levels for houses in the suburbs from the 1960s to today? It's simply absurd!

[dmbfanatpsu]

I hope Deters read that article.

[jessehallum]

Speaking of Deters, I found this pretty interesting...

 

Deters' tough talk stirs debate

Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters' essay on what he believes is ailing Cincinnati, published in Cincinnati Gentlemen magazine, has created plenty of heated discussion this week.

 

Asked to comment on the failure of November’s jail-tax issue, Deters wrote that the city has become far less safe in recent years and will only deteriorate unless a jail is built and police receive more support, regardless of economic development. Current policies will mean more criminals on the street, and “the result of more criminals on the street is more crime.” And he called the current streetcar proposal a “bad idea.”

 

Some letters we received applauded Deters for focusing on what he called the city’s “spirit of lawlessness.” Others said his comments were misguided, self-serving or just plain wrong. And dozens posted comments to our online discussion board, where we posed the question, “Do harsh sentences and tough talk curb violence?” Some of these letters and responses appear below.

 

Deters said Tuesday that he’s a “little surprised” by the fuss. “I’ve been saying this for three years.” What’s he trying to get across? “Job One is securing your city. Violence is simply not acceptable. I believe Cincinnati leaders need to understand that safety is so critical for economic development to work.” Citing Rudy Giuliani’s anti-crime initiatives in New York City, Deters said the city must adopt an attitude of “nothing short of zero tolerance … (and) outrage” toward violent crime. He said he believes we’ll get there, with the help of business owners and a “great” police force. “I think the environment is changing,” he said, “(and) I am very optimistic it will happen.”

 

Yet some fear Deters’ essay could reinforce perceptions that help drive people away and keep new development from taking hold. Though they’re reluctant to criticize him, civic and political leaders, along with business-oriented groups such as Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC), which is coordinating major development projects in downtown and Over-the-Rhine, clearly were not pleased.

 

“The economic and civic investment that’s currently being made in downtown and Over-the-Rhine, especially by members of the business community, is unprecedented and vital to the success of our entire region,” said Kelly Leon, vice president of communications and community relations for 3CDC.

 

“People are choosing to move downtown and into Over-the-Rhine. Vacant buildings are being renovated into condos and new businesses. That’s what our community needs to hear about.”

 

What do you think the community needs to hear – and do? What’s the best approach to reducing crime and fostering economic growth? Join the discussion

 

SAMPLING OF READERS' OPINIONS

 

Thank you, Joe Deters, for saying exactly what so many of us have been thinking!

 

Downtown has become a fun place for an evening out with new restaurants, bars and activities on Fountain Square, but not until we feel "safe" will this wonderful city thrive again.

 

Deters mentioned City Council stepping aside and allowing Police Chief Tom Streicher to do his job. Better yet, how about a thank you from council and 100 percent backing?

Lynne Merk, Delhi Township

 

So, instead of actually trying to attract people to downtown we should just put armed checkpoints on Central Parkway, call the business district the green zone and treat Over-the-Rhine like Baghdad? That, of course, is the easy way out. There's no question that crime must be dealt with, but you do not help matters by instilling fear. The only way to make OTR safe is to revitalize it. The streetcar idea, though not perfect, is a step in the right direction. What ever happened to having a little hope?

Matt Hueneman, Mount Washington

 

Joe Deters may be a great prosecutor, but neither an economist nor sociologist is he. A streetcar can revitalize a community, and where economic and community growth exists crime is the natural victim. He is correct when he says that the community should "stay out of the way of him (Chief Streicher) and let him do his job." But, it is not necessarily a money issue for the police department. If the community would allow the talented and dedicated individuals on the police force to do the job they are very well trained to do without excess and unnecessary paper work, reviews and political interference, then we would be an even safer place to live and work.

Fred Newman, Over the Rhine

 

I don't think that his tactics will deter crime. Guns in the hands of the wrong people is way out of hand; we have laws now and they don't adhere to them. What needs to happen is that the gun laws are enforced and that parents, caregivers and community folks pray for this city and its youth, spend time with these young people and educate them.

Cameron Foster, College Hill

 

I've been told by assistant prosecutors that they are instructed not to plea bargain on crimes using a gun. Why not apply the same policy toward drug trafficking, illegal possession of a gun, and driving under a suspended license? They're all related. The answer is that the people do not want to support adequate jail and prison space nor intervention programs. Sleep well in the bed you make!

Tom Strothers, College Hill

 

It looks like the re-election campaign has begun. Cincinnati has a long history of law officials trying to influence areas not in their expertise. Sheriff Si Lies put Cincinnati on the art map. Now, we have honest Deters, as city planner, weighing into an arena with bravado. Joe wants to make his life easy, and he wants to do it by creating a military state in Cincinnati. Police and jails do not deter crime. Jobs, education and rehabilitation do. Isn't it time we solve this problem?

Robert Barone, Oakley

[UncleRando]

Serious crimes down at UC

BY CLIFF PEALE | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

January 26, 2008

 

UPTOWN - Crimes on the University of Cincinnati’s main campus declined 14 percent in 2007 and have declined three of the last four years.

 

UC said the category of the most serious offenses, including rape, robbery and assault, totaled 405 on the west campus and 55 on the east campus, which includes its medical and health operations. In 2006, crime reports on the two campuses totaled 448 and 87, a drop of 10 percent and 36 percent, respectively.

[Maximillian]

It's so much fun to rip Cincinnati even when the crime occurs in the burbs! :-P

 

Reported by: Deb Silverman

Photographed by: 9 News

Web produced by: Laura Hornsby

 

The bitter cold makes it tempting to leave your car running while you run a quick errand, but we have video from outside a local store that will show you why you want to turn off the engine.

Surveillance video from the Wal-Mart on Mason Montgomery Road in Deerfield Township shows how quickly it happens.

 

Anthony Carter of Loveland parks his truck with the plow fastened on the front in the first row of spots. He leaves his doors unlocked and the car running while he goes into the store to get some parts for the plow.

 

 

15 seconds later, a thief wanders over to the truck and takes off.

 

"He was hanging out around the Wal-Mart," said John Newsom, the major at the Warren County Sheriff's Office. "He just hung out and probably waited for someone," said Newsom.

 

Investigators say this is why you should never leave your doors unlocked and the engine running.

 

However, they say it's pretty common practice.

 

Especially, when the temperature is as low as it is right now.

 

We saw just how common it is when we started looking. Delivery workers and drivers left their engines running while they walked away at a Lebanon gas station.

 

It's a safe town, Lebanon's a safe town. I don't worry about that. If it was cincinnati or somewhere, yeah then I would worry," said Donielle Roberts.Others like Julie Drummond of Lebanon say they'd never risk it.

 

"I think that's just kinda weird and stupid," she said.

 

The stolen truck was found in Bond Hill.

 

The suspect has not been found. Detectives say the video gives us a clear picture of what their suspect looks like.

 

What they say we can all learn from this: there are criminals in every neighborhood.

 

"Deerfield Township is a very safe area. It's a wonderful place and this guy's gone that quickly. So it can happen to anyone. Just a victim of circumstance," said Newsom.

 

 

[thomasbw]

 

Investigators say this is why you should never leave your doors unlocked and the engine running.

 

 

 

oh thats why

[dmerkow]

Serious crimes down at UC

BY CLIFF PEALE | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER

January 26, 2008

 

UPTOWN - Crimes on the University of Cincinnati’s main campus declined 14 percent in 2007 and have declined three of the last four years.

 

“I feel a lot safer on campus now than I did when I was a freshman,” said James Radley, a Delhi native who is president of UC’s student body. “Being an urban university, public safety is one of the first things we hear about from students and their parents. As the university attracts a higher caliber of students year after year, it becomes a higher priority.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So basically what the pres of the student body is saying is that dumb (and poor) kids don't really need as much attention to safety as smart (read suburban) kids. Arrgh.

[Guest jmecklenborg]

>UC said the category of the most serious offenses, including rape, robbery and assault, totaled 405 on the

 

So intruders from the surrounding neighborhoods actually walked onto the UC campus bordered by Clifton, MLK, Calhoun, and Jefferson, at the rate of one per day, perpetrating these crimes?  Or does "West Campus" comprise a much larger area?  And how many UC students themselves were charged with these crimes?  When I was in college, there were many student-on-student thefts, fights, and sexual assaults. 

 

Let's not kid ourselves folks, by "unsafe" and "crime" they mean black dudes from surrounding neighborhoods jumping out from the bushes, something I'm certain hardly ever happens.  So in short these statistics are totally useless. 

[Flying Dutchman]

It's so much fun to rip Cincinnati even when the crime occurs in the burbs! :-P

 

 

It's a safe town, Lebanon's a safe town. I don't worry about that. If it was cincinnati or somewhere, yeah then I would worry," said Donielle Roberts.Others like Julie Drummond of Lebanon say they'd never risk it.

 

 

 

Hahah, is this a joke? Did you "photoshop" that quote in there?

[Weedrose]

Good portion happens on campus by students I've had to be in hearings dealing with this very thing (on the Judicial Affairs Committee)

[Guest jmecklenborg]

Brazil has a population estimated at 184 million versus our 300 million.  The most murders in any year in the U.S. was approximately 23,000 in 1980, currently it's below 20,000, yet Brazil has over 45,000.  To match Brazil's current rate, there would be almost 100,000 murders in the U.S. every year!  This is one of those stats that won't be trumpeted but would if it was help reduce the perception of U.S. cities as exceptionally violent places. 

 

 

Half million Brazilians seen killed in decade

Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:31pm EST 

 

Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page | Recommend (0)

 

 

 

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Nearly half a million Brazilians were murdered in the past decade but the homicide rate is gradually falling due to better social welfare, more policing and fewer firearms, a study said on Tuesday.

 

In the 10 years from 1996 to 2006, around 465,000 people were murdered, according to a study published by two aid groups and the federal government. The vast majority were shot.

[LesterLyles]

So guys, not to trivialize murders but what was the number for Cincy in january?  My count is 3 but I may be off.

[David]

Four if you count my room mate. He wasn't murdered though, he's just "missing" at this point.

[LesterLyles]

Four if you count my room mate. He wasn't murdered though, he's just "missing" at this point.

  Is he really missing? 

[UncleRando]

^David is just jesting...referring to a particular thread and issue with his roommate.

[David]

Exactly. I don't know anything about Pete missing. For all I know, he's in his room playing Warcraft as usual.

 

 

^David is just jesting...referring to a particular thread and issue with his roommate.

 

Are you saying I'm some sort of clown to you?!

[unusualfire]

Don't know if anyone noticed but Cincinnati is on pace for under 40 murders this year.

[thomasbw]

you can't just take jan and feb having 6 homicides and project for the rest of the year, as summer typically has more homicides than winter, but I would guess we are under 50 for the year

[unusualfire]

13 for the first 4 months of the year so far.

[LincolnKennedy]

Speaking of Deters, I found this pretty interesting...

 

Deters' tough talk stirs debate

Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters' essay on what he believes is ailing Cincinnati, published in Cincinnati Gentlemen magazine, has created plenty of heated discussion this week.

 

Asked to comment on the failure of November’s jail-tax issue, Deters wrote that the city has become far less safe in recent years and will only deteriorate unless a jail is built and police receive more support, regardless of economic development. Current policies will mean more criminals on the street, and “the result of more criminals on the street is more crime.” And he called the current streetcar proposal a “bad idea.”

 

Some letters we received applauded Deters for focusing on what he called the city’s “spirit of lawlessness.” Others said his comments were misguided, self-serving or just plain wrong. And dozens posted comments to our online discussion board, where we posed the question, “Do harsh sentences and tough talk curb violence?” Some of these letters and responses appear below.

 

Deters said Tuesday that he’s a “little surprised” by the fuss. “I’ve been saying this for three years.” What’s he trying to get across? “Job One is securing your city. Violence is simply not acceptable. I believe Cincinnati leaders need to understand that safety is so critical for economic development to work.” Citing Rudy Giuliani’s anti-crime initiatives in New York City, Deters said the city must adopt an attitude of “nothing short of zero tolerance … (and) outrage” toward violent crime. He said he believes we’ll get there, with the help of business owners and a “great” police force. “I think the environment is changing,” he said, “(and) I am very optimistic it will happen.”

 

It's been awhile to comment on this statement from Deters, but hasn't crime in Cincy decreased in recent years?  At least since the police slowdown ended?

 

It's interesting the military style language that Deters uses- "Job One is securing your City"; "nothing short of zero tolerance... and outrage".  Deters in the Prosecutor for Hamilton County.  He acts as plaintiff on behalf of the people of the County.  I find it hard to believe that violent crime takes up a majority of the casework of the county court system.

[Michael L. Redmond]

“Job One is securing your city. Violence is simply not acceptable. I believe Cincinnati leaders need to understand that safety is so critical for economic development to work.”

If I remember correctly he also said that he took the keys away from his son when he wanted to go to Main St..  A very public way of saying that the new bars that had just opened on Main St were unsafe to go to.  "Citing Rudy Giuliani’s anti-crime initiatives in New York City" Did Giuliani say that New York should be avoided until the problems were all solved?  We have a two pronged approach down here, enforcement and development.  Deters hurt us on the development side when he told perspective buyers and patrons that OTR was unsafe.  Giuliani he is not.

[UncleRando]

^You hit it right on the head there.  Deters is awfully crass and obnoxiously over-the-top.  He takes sensationalism to a FOX News sort of level.

[thomasbw]

deters didn't want his non drinking age son to go to bars, I don't think that is a negative reflection on the city; had he said otherwise, i think it is an negative reflection on his parenting.

[oakiehigh]

Don't know if anyone noticed but Cincinnati is on pace for under 40 murders this year.

 

We have to wait untill the dog days of summer.   Unfortunately Cincy heat and humidity brings out the worst in people.   Tempers are short.

[LincolnKennedy]

Did Giuliani say that New York should be avoided until the problems were all solved?  We have a two pronged approach down here, enforcement and development.  Deters hurt us on the development side when he told perspective buyers and patrons that OTR was unsafe.  Giuliani he is not.

 

Well Giuliani is a douchebag and Deters is a douchebag.  Both want to claim credit for things they had nothing to do with and blame their problems on others (per Deters- for some reason the county wide tax to fund the jail and other criminal justice programs is the fault of Cincinnati City Council and the streetcar).  I'm sure I just annoyed a bunch of people for talking shit about Giuliani, but one thing is for certain- Giuliani was the highest ranking government official for the largest city in the U.S., one of the largest cities on earth, a city spread over five counties, and a city that experienced enormous growth in its key local industries in the 1990s up until the present day.  Deters is Prosecuting Attorney of a single county, in Ohio, and he can't even get a 1/2 cent sales tax passed?

[Michael L. Redmond]

deters didn't want his non drinking age son to go to bars, I don't think that is a negative reflection on the city; had he said otherwise, i think it is an negative reflection on his parenting.

At the time I believe I put out a 'thank you' of sorts for not promoting underage drinking but somehow I do not believe that was his intended message.  Perhaps we could take out an add with MADD saying,

 

Deters doesn't want his underaged son going to Main Street and neither should you.  See you at 21!

Main Street Bar Association and Mothers against Drunk Driving.

[oakiehigh]

Enforcement blitz comes to Westwood

BY KURT BACKSCHEIDER | [email protected]

http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080425/NEWS01/804250453/1067/RSS1103

 

WESTWOOD - The city is launching a blitz strategy next month to address issues beleaguering the neighborhood like building code violations, crime and vacant lots.

 

Westwood is one of three communities in which the city is implementing the Neighborhood Enhancement Program this year. The other two neighborhoods are Evanston and Clifton Heights/University Heights/Fairview.

[oakiehigh]

Not to downplay the previous 16 murders so far this year, but why do you suppose these things tend to start happening more often when the weather begins to break?

 

 

This is the 4th one since April 22.         

 

This is a typical "Downer" thread, yet relevant to the city's pulse.   

 

 

 

 

Man shot dead in Corryville

THE ENQUIRER

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080430/NEWS01/304300057/

 

CORRYVILLE – Cincinnati police combed the area of Corry Street and Eden Avenue after a man was shot to death Wednesday evening.

 

The shooting was reported around 9:20 p.m.

 

[LesterLyles]

on pace for 51 murders this year.  Would still be way down.

[UncleRando]

^^Warmer weather.

[unusualfire]

Their seems to be a spike in robberies lately. I think it has more to do with high prices of gas than just the summer time.

[dmerkow]

Economic dislocation will tend to drive up money-oriented crime (with the side effect of muggings and murder). If things stay slow for awhile, I think you'll start seeing people setting their alarms again, keeping those subscriptions current and possibly installing new systems.

 

When you start seeing non-traditional criminals holding up banks and the like there has been a shift in the sort of crime that we are seeing.

[GetBackCincy]

OTR wary since deputies left

By Quan Truong • [email protected] • July 7, 2008

 

OVER-THE-RHINE – Some call them “renegade cops” who crossed the line and harassed over-scrutinized residents. Others praise them for helping turn around a neighborhood that seemed destined to remain the city’s worst crime spot.

 

Either way, when 19 Hamilton County sheriff’s deputies were yanked from Over-the-Rhine in December, it was clear their brief presence did not go unnoticed – although opinions vary on the effectiveness of their patrols.

[Maximillian]

Idiot's in the media need a map.

 

Since when is Forest Park a Cincinnati neighborhood??

 

LaRosa's Driver Seriously Injured During Attack

 

Last Update: 9:49 am 

 

(Google Images) Reported by: Lance Barry

Web produced by: Ian Preuth

 

Two teenagers are facing charges after police say they seriously injured a LaRosa's Pizza delivery driver in a Cincinnati neighborhood Monday night.

 

Forest Park police arrested 19-year-old Marcus Hooper and 18-year-old Jon Harris.

Investigators believe juveniles were also involved in the incident.

[seicer]

Boys charged in armed robbery

By Jennifer Baker, Cincinnati Enquirer,July 16, 2008

 

OVER-THE-RHINE – Two boys, ages 12 and 13, were arrested early today and charged with robbing two men at gunpoint, Cincinnati police said.

 

The children are held this morning on aggravated robbery charges at the Hamilton County Juvenile Detention Center.

 

They were taken into custody after police received a call about 12:15 a.m. that two men, 23 and 24, were robbed at gunpoint of their cell phones in the 1200 block of Main Street, police said.

 

The Enquirer will update this story as information develops.

[unusualfire]

The parents should be put in jail. How can they be so out of touch????

[Cincinnatus]

^ Yep!

 

 

[GetBackCincy]

lots of activity today.  not sure why.  Somebody got shot right outside today, great.

[seicer]

In the Gateway? No wonder I saw a lot of lights down the end of 12th today.

[Michael L. Redmond]

lots of activity today.  not sure why.  Somebody got shot right outside today, great.

A guy was shot in the back at 14th and Republic.  No real details yet.  Not life threating.

[GetBackCincy]

Yeah he stumbled to and was laying between 12th and 13th and republic.  Lovely site on the way back from the grocery store.  I guess I beat the cops and ambulance to the scene.

 

But in general, there were lots of loud outbursts and cop/fire/emt calls to the park and general area.  Just seemed like a lively day for crime all over cincinnati yesterday.

 

 

[unusualfire]

Don't know if anyone noticed but Cincinnati is on pace for under 40 murders this year.

 

We have to wait untill the dog days of summer.   Unfortunately Cincy heat and humidity brings out the worst in people.   Tempers are short.

I guess you were right.:(

[TheHemroid]

The majority of people loitering outside of kroger won't bother you.  They're actually quite funny when you get to talking to them.  Most of them don't work and are on welfare.  They hang there because they're bored stiff during the day. 

[Alabama ExPat]

Does anyone have any idea where they are talking about?  There's no UDF at the location downtown.  UDF doesn't show nay stores on a Broadway in Cincinnati.

 

 

DOWNTOWN -- A Fairfield man is being held in jail after robbing a downtown Cincinnati United Dairy Farmers store and sexually assaulting a UDF employee Friday, Cincinnati police said.

 

More information at

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080803/NEWS0107/808030397

[Haynesm007]

^It's "downtown" Fairfield.  The hacks at the Enquirer didn't bother to distinguish between the two.

[UncleRando]

Why would Cincinnati police be commenting on something in Fairfield?

[unusualfire]

And the Hamilton County Courthouse.

[oakiehigh]

Does anyone know what the REAL homicide number is after the shooting in Mt Auburn this morning.    The Enquirer is reporting 41 while 39 was mentioned on WLW???????????

[UncleRando]

If you go with the higher of the two numbers, and project out given the current rate, then Cincinnati is on tract for 65 homicides for 2008.

 

Homicide Totals

2005:  79

2006:  85

2007:  67

2008:  65 (projection that is on the high side given normal winter slow downs)

 

[UncleRando]

Does anyone know what the REAL homicide number is after the shooting in Mt Auburn this morning.

 

These numbers can fluctuate based on how these crimes are prosecuted and how they eventually work themselves out.  It is not unusal that a death is originally marked as a homicide, and then changed later.  The best source of data are the numbers reported by the CPD.  As of June 2008 the CPD reported 29 homicides.