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Keep an eye on Aer Lingus—they typically release their upcoming spring/summer schedule in mid-September and there’s a good chance CLE could be their newest spoke from Dublin in a few weeks’ time.

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4 hours ago, Boxtruffles said:

Keep an eye on Aer Lingus—they typically release their upcoming spring/summer schedule in mid-September and there’s a good chance CLE could be their newest spoke from Dublin in a few weeks’ time.

 

This is making more and more sense now that they are partnering with Air Canada and United (though not members of *Alliance that I can tell)

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On 8/26/2019 at 8:46 PM, avtcle said:

There’s talk across other forums and sites that British Airways will be announcing its 2020 TATL routes this week. Will Cleveland finally score? 

I'm an outsider with this stuff, but I feel like to attract BA to CLE there'd have to be huge incentives and subsidization. I'm only speaking from experience from when I lived in Pittsburgh but a lot of their European routes were pretty heavily subsidized. 

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1 hour ago, GISguy said:

I'm an outsider with this stuff, but I feel like to attract BA to CLE there'd have to be huge incentives and subsidization. I'm only speaking from experience from when I lived in Pittsburgh but a lot of their European routes were pretty heavily subsidized. 

BA is a huge long shot. They already fly 787s into PIT year-round. Almost any carrier other than BA is likelier (think Aer Lingus, Norwegian, maybe a US or EU mainline considering large subsidies).

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From what I've heard from airport people, it doesn't sound like any significant subsidy/incentive package for a transatlantic flight has been organized by the regional interests that would need to be involved. So I wouldn't expect any EU mainline carrier to add CLE in the foreseeable future unless that changes.  There is some hope for Aer Lingus though, and I think their visit earlier this year is a promising sign.  Fingers crossed 

 

 

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^Are you saying there is no subsidy/incentive package for Aer Lingus?  Also, is the region only putting up subsidies for BA/AA, DL/KL/AF, and UA/LH--just the big legacy carriers?

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I have no info specifically about Aer Lingus, but it was indicated that there was not an incentive package available at the level that would be required to get a flight into Heathrow, Paris, Frankfurt, etc, on the big legacy carriers.  

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i recently spoke with someone who works for Frontier.  They are planning on purchasing a huge fleet of planes that have range to Europe in the next couple of years.  He expects Frontier to use that range from CLE to more unique European destinations and he does believe there will be nice growth in CLE

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6 hours ago, BelievelandD1 said:

i recently spoke with someone who works for Frontier.  They are planning on purchasing a huge fleet of planes that have range to Europe in the next couple of years.  He expects Frontier to use that range from CLE to more unique European destinations and he does believe there will be nice growth in CLE

Frontier will be adding 18 of the A321XLR. That's not a huge fleet but the plane should be able to reach Europe from CLE, CMH, or CVG. I don't expect them to announce a big expansion to Europe with those planes as they will also be using that aircraft on other market segments such as Hawaii and Alaska.

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On 8/28/2019 at 10:41 AM, Boxtruffles said:

Keep an eye on Aer Lingus—they typically release their upcoming spring/summer schedule in mid-September and there’s a good chance CLE could be their newest spoke from Dublin in a few weeks’ time.

 

 

i saw norwegian is in a battle with aer lingus for cheap usa routes. unfortunately they rely on the 737 max or whatever that plane is that is having problems. whenever that is resolved maybe they will try again. 

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Cleveland Hopkins will keep shuttle drop off at north end of terminal; improvements planned

Link: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/09/cleveland-hopkins-will-keep-shuttle-drop-off-at-north-end-of-terminal-improvements-planned.html 

 

" Cleveland Hopkins plans to keep the shuttle bus pick-up and drop-off location where it is now, at the north end of the terminal, and will invest $3 million to improve the site and make it more passenger-friendly." 

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18 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said:

Cleveland Hopkins will keep shuttle drop off at north end of terminal; improvements planned

Link: https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/09/cleveland-hopkins-will-keep-shuttle-drop-off-at-north-end-of-terminal-improvements-planned.html 

 

" Cleveland Hopkins plans to keep the shuttle bus pick-up and drop-off location where it is now, at the north end of the terminal, and will invest $3 million to improve the site and make it more passenger-friendly." 

The pickup area was SO much better in the central/former location across bridge - no matter how temporary feeling. It beat standing out on an island in the middle of the road, as in prior years, no matter how relatively close to the terminal. 

 

The current location leads the bus users past the outdoor smoking area, which is always a great thing, and is considerably further from the United concourse where so many travelers begin are starting/ending their trip. But whatever ..

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Moody’s again raising its bond rating for Cleveland Hopkins International Airport

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Moody’s Investors Service, one of the three major bond rating services, has announced it will upgrade Cleveland Hopkins International Airport’s bond rating for a second time in 13 months, according to the airport.

 

The upgrade from A3 to A2 was attributed to Cleveland’s success in transitioning to an origination and destination airport since losing hub status in 2014. Moody’s noted passenger traffic has increased month over month for nearly two and a half years.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019/09/moodys-again-raising-its-bond-rating-for-cleveland-hopkins-international-airport.html

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^This is good news.  And the other day Fitch Ratings assigned an A- rating to CLE's series 2019A-C airport revenue refunding bonds. Good news on both fronts.

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Airlines to reap benefits from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport’s improved bond rating

 

"Lowering the cost of borrowing money for capital improvements (and refinancing existing debt) also lowers the tab for the airlines. Kennedy expects the airlines will begin to save about $2.6 million a year, beginning next year. ... In exchange, the airlines are expected to invest more at Hopkins with more flights and bigger planes."

 

Link: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/09/airlines-to-reap-benefits-from-cleveland-hopkins-international-airports-improved-bond-rating.html

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Can we please transfer ownership and management to the Cleveland Cuyahoga County Port Authority??

 

Cleveland Hopkins is second-worst medium-sized airport in North America, according to J.D. Power

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/09/cleveland-hopkins-is-second-worst-medium-sized-airport-in-north-america-according-to-jd-power.html

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^The suburbs have been salivating for years to get their hands on the last big city of Cleveland asset. If you want to take something from Cleveland, take the schools and then we'll talk about the airport.

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23 minutes ago, KJP said:

Can we please transfer ownership and management to the Cleveland Cuyahoga County Port Authority??

 

Cleveland Hopkins is second-worst medium-sized airport in North America, according to J.D. Power

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/09/cleveland-hopkins-is-second-worst-medium-sized-airport-in-north-america-according-to-jd-power.html

 

Cleveland's airport isn't good but it's certainly better than Hartford-Bradley.  Ugh, so many bad memories...


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1 hour ago, Pugu said:

^The suburbs have been salivating for years to get their hands on the last big city of Cleveland asset. If you want to take something from Cleveland, take the schools and then we'll talk about the airport.

 

I don't know about what the suburbs are after (except perhaps the city's water department). But the City of Cleveland has mismanaged the airport for years. There's no creativity there and no marketing aggressiveness. The port authority, on the other hand, does a good job running the lake port and its development programs. It's also why I'm scared to death of the city of Cleveland pursuing development  of the downtown multimodal hub. I'd rather the port authority do that.

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While I agree that the airport could be managed better, and that the Port would be a good candidate to do so, I think "2nd worst in its class" is a little harsh.  I have consistently decent experiences at CLE, and think the general "Woe is CLE" attitude in this region probably bleeds into these survey results.

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17 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Can we please transfer ownership and management to the Cleveland Cuyahoga County Port Authority??

 

 

17 hours ago, KJP said:
18 hours ago, Pugu said:

^The suburbs have been salivating for years to get their hands on the last big city of Cleveland asset. If you want to take something from Cleveland, take the schools and then we'll talk about the airport.

 

Quote

I don't know about what the suburbs are after (except perhaps the city's water department). But the City of Cleveland has mismanaged the airport for years. There's no creativity there and no marketing aggressiveness. The port authority, on the other hand, does a good job running the lake port and its development programs. It's also why I'm scared to death of the city of Cleveland pursuing development  of the downtown multimodal hub. I'd rather the port authority do that.

 

I don't disagree with you that the current airport administration is less than competent--no service to Europe while smaller and Cle-competitor cities are getting it, ridiculous handling of ground transportation (making old people with luggage walk 1/2 mile to a taxi in the garage while taking away parking spaces), insane handling of passengers that need to go through CPB (having to then wait 1-2 hrs in line at no-pre-check available TSA screening) when there are other options (build a secure corridor or put passengers on buses after clearing customs which was the case a few years ago).  The solution? Get a better airport director. And if the mayor appoints only duds, get a new mayor. But don't give away the airport to another entity. The city has so few major assets left. The suburbs try to steamroll the city all the time and happily steal jobs from it. The airport (and water) are the last big items the city has in showing its weight. The suburbs were dying to control the Port as well. So, the port may be doing some good things, but that's no reason further hurt the city.  Remember the Board of the port has 9 members---6 of which are appointed by the Mayor and 3 by the county (which we can say are the suburbs here as they seem to have control of the county). The port only exists cause Cleveland exists. But the suburbs wanted more. So they said THEY should have 6 members on the board and the city should only have 3. That was a few years ago and luckily that never came to be. The greedy suburban nonsense was put to bed.  So, yes, we need much better leadership at the airport, but never at the price of giving the airport away.

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4 minutes ago, Pugu said:

Can we please transfer ownership and management to the Cleveland Cuyahoga County Port Authority??

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you that the current airport administration is less than competent--no service to Europe while smaller and Cle-competitor cities are getting it, ridiculous handling of ground transportation (making old people with luggage walk 1/2 mile to a taxi in the garage while taking away parking spaces), insane handling of passengers that need to go through CPB (having to then wait 1-2 hrs in line at no-pre-check available TSA screening) when there are other options (build a secure corridor or put passengers on buses after clearing customs which was the case a few years ago).  The solution? Get a better airport director. And if the mayor appoints only duds, get a new mayor. But don't give away the airport to another entity. The city has so few major assets left. The suburbs try to steamroll the city all the time and happily steal jobs from it. The airport (and water) are the last big items the city has in showing its weight. The suburbs were dying to control the Port as well. So, the port may be doing some good things, but that's no reason further hurt the city.  Remember the Board of the port has 9 members---6 of which are appointed by the Mayor and 3 by the county (which we can say are the suburbs here as they seem to have control of the county). The port only exists cause Cleveland exists. But the suburbs wanted more. So they said THEY should have 6 members on the board and the city should only have 3. That was a few years ago and luckily that never came to be. The greedy suburban nonsense was put to bed.  So, yes, we need much better leadership at the airport, but never at the price of giving the airport away.

Smaller metros have gotten service due to generous incentives and in the case of cities like Raleigh, Nashville and Austin actual demand with decent yields- from both sides of the Pond. Austin will add Amsterdam in spring 2020. Frequently we cite demand from X city to Europe but fail to take the demand from Europe to X City into account. Plus there is the Premium factor. Fares will be higher and if you are flying to Dusseldorf which will require a connection in any event, you'll probably choose the lower fare connecting in NY.

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^I know how airlines and routings work. My point was that if other cities that are smaller than Cleveland can get service, then the largest US metro (4M) without service should be able to figure it out as well. That falls on the Airport Director who can't figure it out or doesn't care to. It may that he doesn't care. Remember, Kennedy tried to quit, but Jackson wouldn't let him--it would have looked bad for the election. So perhaps he's just sitting around collecting a paycheck. https://www.cleveland.com/naymik/2017/10/cleveland_hopkins_airport_chie.html

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13 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

Smaller metros have gotten service due to generous incentives and in the case of cities like Raleigh, Nashville and Austin actual demand with decent yields- from both sides of the Pond. Austin will add Amsterdam in spring 2020. Frequently we cite demand from X city to Europe but fail to take the demand from Europe to X City into account. Plus there is the Premium factor. Fares will be higher and if you are flying to Dusseldorf which will require a connection in any event, you'll probably choose the lower fare connecting in NY.

Can airlines not run direct one way, and not direct on the return? I have no idea how routings work.

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^Yes, and there are many example of that. Jat used to fly westbound:  BEG-DTW-CLE and eastbound: CLE-BEG.

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^JAT also flew this in the mid-80s at 1x weekly:

 

JU566 Belgrade – Ljubljana – Cleveland – Chicago
JU569 Chicago – Cleveland – Ljubljana – Belgrade

 

Its not different cities per direction, but it shows a stop en route. Not sure of what the rules were back then (I think they were the same as they are now), but if this were operated today, all Chicago-bound passengers would have to deplane in Cleveland and clear immigration/customs, before re-boarding and continuing on to Chicago. (They could not carry new passengers picked up in CLE and brought to Chicago.)

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Agreed. On top of that, people should take this into consideration

 

Quote

Cleveland’s poor ranking comes in contrast to recent improving marks from the Airports Council International, an industry trade group. Hopkins was named the “most improved” airport in North America in 2017, and results continued to increase in 2018.

 

ACI surveys are conducted at the airport and ask travelers about security, “finding your way,” check-in, airport facilities, airport environment and overall satisfaction.

J.D. Power surveys are conducted online, and include responses from 32,276 U.S. or Canadian residents who traveled through at least one U.S. or Canadian airport during the past three months. The study was conducted from October 2018 through September 2019

It contradicts the governing agency and was conducted online.

 

Does the airport need massive change? ,Yes.  Should this "ranking" be taken seriously?  HELL NO

 

SW (the city and county) could work with carriers for additional flights.  This isn't uncommon for a company to contact carriers for more flights w/gaurantees.  We know United handicapped the airport on purpose.  I believe we have the NEED for more O&D flights or the LCCs wouldn't be here.  Alaska should be in CLE.  American and Delta could ad more direct flights to targeted business destinations.  United could add more domestic flights and flights to European hubs, instead of cramming more flights into EWR, ORD and IAD.

 

Do we need to realign the concourses and runways, Yes.  Do we need to add a independent international (five/six gates) terminal, Yes.  Do we need to move the rental car facility?  Yes.  

 

Having said all that, that JD Power report is 🐎💩

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This city can't run an airport anymore than it can a fresh food market.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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4 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

Agreed. On top of that, people should take this into consideration

 

It contradicts the governing agency and was conducted online.

 

Does the airport need massive change? ,Yes.  Should this "ranking" be taken seriously?  HELL NO

 

SW (the city and county) could work with carriers for additional flights.  This isn't uncommon for a company to contact carriers for more flights w/gaurantees.  We know United handicapped the airport on purpose.  I believe we have the NEED for more O&D flights or the LCCs wouldn't be here.  Alaska should be in CLE.  American and Delta could ad more direct flights to targeted business destinations.  United could add more domestic flights and flights to European hubs, instead of cramming more flights into EWR, ORD and IAD.

 

Do we need to realign the concourses and runways, Yes.  Do we need to add a independent international (five/six gates) terminal, Yes.  Do we need to move the rental car facility?  Yes.  

 

Having said all that, that JD Power report is 🐎💩

 

Don't forget restrooms.  We need bigger and roomier restrooms....

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^I don't have an issue with the alignment of the runways or the location of the rental car facility. Before the consolidation, we had lots of little buses running around--avis, budget, hertz, etc....  I'm okay with the consolidation and would rather the space be used for either offices, hotels, more terminal, or more airfield, rather than surface parking for rental cars.  We need modern terminals, better immigration processing (and process--no post CBP TSA), and BETTER AIR SERVICE. CLE-SFO is horribly under capacity, e.g., as are other key business cities, some of which have no service at all, and as we all know, CLE-Europe to a useful hub is non-existent.

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7 hours ago, Pugu said:

^I don't have an issue with the alignment of the runways or the location of the rental car facility. Before the consolidation, we had lots of little buses running around--avis, budget, hertz, etc....  I'm okay with the consolidation and would rather the space be used for either offices, hotels, more terminal, or more airfield, rather than surface parking for rental cars.  We need modern terminals, better immigration processing (and process--no post CBP TSA), and BETTER AIR SERVICE. CLE-SFO is horribly under capacity, e.g., as are other key business cities, some of which have no service at all, and as we all know, CLE-Europe to a useful hub is non-existent.

Yes consolidating the car rental facility to brookpark would be better with an inter modal connection would a necessity.

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Rental cars should have been on the bottom 2 floors of the short term parking garage, with a new long-term garage behind it.  Instead, we have the awful off-site facility and more surface lots around the airport (what our leadership knows best).  

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In another part of the galaxy Pugu said:

 

"The city will take a year (or maybe two) to solicit a master contractor to build the recommendation"   No. The city HAS to do a plan. So it doesn't mean it wants to or is doing so in earnest because it wants to make things better. Its required to do a plan. And it is not required to implement any of it. Look at the giant new terminal and hotel built after the last master plan. I know there were changes like the economy and UA dehubbing, but there's no indication the airport was really going to do anything anyway. Even things they didn't even need a master plan to show---like cramped terminal conditions, poor FIS location, etc.--they didn't bother improving.

 

My reply:

You are correct that the city has to do a plan and that the city doesn't then have to do anything with it. However, if the city didn't WANT to do something, they could have simply updated the existing plan to show current and projected traffic and Concourse D mothballed. They wouldn't have needed a consultant for that. I think the airport has pretty clearly shown they want to do something major.  If all they expected to do was a buff up of existing facilities, they (City Council approved the RFQ) wouldn't have allowed the bidders 10-11 months to prepae their submissions.

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^I hope the city is earnest with undertaking the master plan and really want to make improvements and really does invest in those improvements. 

 

Regarding this statement, "If all they expected to do was a buff up of existing facilities, they (City Council approved the RFQ) wouldn't have allowed the bidders 10-11 months to prepare their submissions."  Sure they would--esp. if necessary to "prove" their commitment to the process. Happens all the time.

 

However, the city didn't give vendors 10-11 months to prepare a bid that takes a month to prepare.  RFQ was released on  Jan 18, 2019 and they were due on March 1, 2019. Were there no qualified bidders? Its been 7 months. Sounds like a severe lack of urgency or care. Either that or incompetence to properly assess the bids and/or negotiate a contract. I don't think the airport director gives a #$#&* anymore and doesn't care about legacy. We see that in airport improvements and we see that in cities served by the airlines. And inaction Jackson himself doesn't give a crap enough to replace him.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Pugu said:

 I don't think the airport director gives a #$#&* anymore and doesn't care about legacy. We see that in airport improvements and we see that in cities served by the airlines. And inaction Jackson himself doesn't give a crap enough to replace him.

 

Ouch.  Maybe my optimism is misplaced.  I hope you're wrong about Kennedy. 

 

The Mayor should probably resign "to spend more time with his family" as they say. In this case it would be true.  He's not young any more; and his wife has to need more attention than the city is getting lately.

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