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With Eaton's presence in Ireland, I wonder if there's enough travel from Cleveland to Dublin or Shannon to warrant a nonstop. I've flown through both airports in Ireland and while Dublin has more European connections, I love the US Customs pre-clearance at Shannon.

 

I don't think Eaton has much of a presence at all in Ireland.  It's a shell.  The Cooper acquisition allowed them to incorporate the combined operations in Ireland because I believe Cooper's European operations were headquartered there, but Cooper's primary corporate offices have always been located in Chicago.  In fact, they were incorporated in Ohio until 2002 when they reincorporated in Bermuda, for tax purposes of course.  Anyway, I doubt the demand from Eaton would be there to justify non-stop service to Ireland.

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I don't think Eaton has much of a presence at all in Ireland.  It's a shell.  The Cooper acquisition allowed them to incorporate the combined operations in Ireland because I believe Cooper's European operations were headquartered there, but Cooper's primary corporate offices have always been located in Chicago.  In fact, they were incorporated in Ohio until 2002 when they reincorporated in Bermuda, for tax purposes of course.  Anyway, I doubt the demand from Eaton would be there to justify non-stop service to Ireland.

 

The last few times I've flown to/from Europe, I was surrounded by passengers going to/from Ireland including sitting next to me on the plane or in the boarding areas of airports. And ALL were coming to/from Cleveland to do business with Eaton. Most were contractors, subcontractors, subsidiaries, suppliers, etc. etc. of Eaton. Now that could have been coincidence. But I'd be surprised if it was. I'll check with a friends in Ireland and in the Irish Network-Cleveland to get their feedback on the market for a direct flight to Ireland.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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With Eaton's presence in Ireland, I wonder if there's enough travel from Cleveland to Dublin or Shannon to warrant a nonstop. I've flown through both airports in Ireland and while Dublin has more European connections, I love the US Customs pre-clearance at Shannon.

 

DUB also has preclearance to USA.

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DUB also has preclearance to USA.

 

I didn't know that! In May we flew into Dublin and returned via Shannon.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Southwest Airlines jumps into Cleveland-Phoenix nonstop market

 

By Alison Grant, The Plain Dealer

on August 11, 2014 at 5:41 PM, updated August 11, 2014 at 6:11 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The competition for nonstop service between Cleveland and Phoenix is heating up.

 

Southwest Airlines said today that it will begin year-round nonstop service to Phoenix from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport starting Nov. 2.

 

It's the third airline to launch nonstop service from Cleveland to Phoenix's Sky Harbor International Airport in the wake of deep cuts at Hopkins this spring by United Airlines.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/08/southwest_airlines_jumps_into.html#incart_m-rpt-1

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Southwest Airlines did announce a new daily non stop from CLE to Phoenix earlier this summer. That flight begins this December (a few months after the flight to PHX that the newly merged American Airlines also announced they'll be starting). I don't think the new Southwest flight was mentioned many places but it's available for booking on Southwest's website.

 

Southwest Airlines jumps into Cleveland-Phoenix nonstop market

 

By Alison Grant, The Plain Dealer

on August 11, 2014 at 5:41 PM, updated August 11, 2014 at 6:11 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The competition for nonstop service between Cleveland and Phoenix is heating up.

 

Southwest Airlines said today that it will begin year-round nonstop service to Phoenix from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport starting Nov. 2.

 

It's the third airline to launch nonstop service from Cleveland to Phoenix's Sky Harbor International Airport in the wake of deep cuts at Hopkins this spring by United Airlines.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/08/southwest_airlines_jumps_into.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

Does Cleveland.com save these stories for slow news days? This was announced a long time ago and has been available for booking for over a month! Not sure why it's suddenly newsworthy today.

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So if United claimed 7x/week didn't work - so dropped CLE-PHX - how do 3 other airlines think the route - and 17x/week - will work?

 

Or should we believe - as many do - that CLE was working just fine for UAL - and this flight was just one of the sacrifices?

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So if United claimed 7x/week didn't work - so dropped CLE-PHX - how do 3 other airlines think the route - and 17x/week - will work?

 

Or should we believe - as many do - that CLE was working just fine for UAL - and this flight was just one of the sacrifices?

 

The article mentions they may be adding flights to squeeze out frontier.

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^My guess would be Cancun given the large snow bird (Florida) market for Ohio. Mexico City would be an nice "world city" destination for CLE. Probably need a large Mexican immigrant population for that though which I don't think Cleveland has.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

"Southwest's first approach to international service came on April 19, 2012 when it signed a contract with the Amadeus IT Group which will initiate in 2014. This contract will give the airline the capability to begin flying to destinations outside of the United States. Before this contract was signed, Southwest's reservation system did not have the ability to serve international destinations.[78] Southwest debuted the international reservation system on January 27, 2014 followed by the first international flights which began on July 1, 2014 to Aruba (AUA), Montego Bay, Jamaica (MBJ) and Nassau, Bahamas (NAS).

 

Through the integration of AirTran, by the end of 2014, Southwest will add service to Aruba (AUA), Cancun, Mexico (CUN), Mexico City, Mexico (MEX), Montego Bay, Jamaica (MBJ), Nassau, Bahamas (NAS), Punta Cana, Dominican Republic (PUJ) and San Jose Cabo, Mexico (SJD).

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So if United claimed 7x/week didn't work - so dropped CLE-PHX - how do 3 other airlines think the route - and 17x/week - will work?

 

Or should we believe - as many do - that CLE was working just fine for UAL - and this flight was just one of the sacrifices?

 

The article mentions they may be adding flights to squeeze out frontier.

 

More likely this is squeeze on American than Frontier since both will offer daily service. It's an attempt to keep American's pricing closer to what Southwest would need to make it work.

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Frontier is adding more flights to Cleveland this fall and winter.

 

Frontier will now operate a flight from Cleveland to Las Vegas 7 days per week instead of 2, they will also increase service to Orlando two times per day instead of 1, increase service to Fort Myers to every day of the week instead of 4, and increase service to Phoenix to 4 times per week instead of 2.

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Southwest.com announced on its website there will be an international destination out of CLE beginning October 5th, does anyone know where?

 

That's just the date that you'll be able to book connecting flights to international destinations. It doesn't mean that Southwest will be operating direct, international flights from CLE.

 

If you go to http://www.southwest.com/html/air/intl/booking-travel/index.html#interactive_map you can chose any city that they currently fly to, and it tells you what day connecting flights are available from. Cleveland and Akron are October 7th, Columbus is September 16th, Pittsburgh was July 1st, etc. They're simply phasing them in across their network.

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Frontier is adding more flights to Cleveland this fall and winter.

 

Frontier will now operate a flight from Cleveland to Las Vegas 7 days per week instead of 2, they will also increase service to Orlando two times per day instead of 1, increase service to Fort Myers to every day of the week instead of 4, and increase service to Phoenix to 4 times per week instead of 2.

 

Its the winter change over.  Flights from the NE and Great Lakes regions to Florida and the Caribbean increase between October and Easter/Spring Break.  In addtion place like LA, San Diego and Phoenix will see increased service.

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So if United claimed 7x/week didn't work - so dropped CLE-PHX - how do 3 other airlines think the route - and 17x/week - will work?

 

Or should we believe - as many do - that CLE was working just fine for UAL - and this flight was just one of the sacrifices?

 

The article mentions they may be adding flights to squeeze out frontier.

 

They might also be adding PHX to run a PHX-CLE-LHR.  The latest rumours are that AA and or BA (they codeshare - very close) are looking to add one of SLC, CLE, CMH, STL or BNA.  A PHX trip would add some feed.  CAL used to operate its LGW and LHR flight LAX-CLE-LHR

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^I don't know why I click on this thread.  I never know what the hell you  people are talking about.  :?

 

I got that American Airlines and British Airways way be adding the Cleveland leg so there is enough capacity to add a potential Flight to England. Did I get that right?

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^I don't know why I click on this thread.  I never know what the hell you  people are talking about.  :?

 

I got that American Airlines and British Airways way be adding the Cleveland leg so there is enough capacity to add a potential Flight to England. Did I get that right?

 

Yes

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Where did you hear that SLC is in the running or that they will be adding a stop from a PHX origin flight? I've only heard that IND, CMH, CLE, and STL are in the running.

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Apparently Nashville in the running too. I found about a half dozen Aug/Sept articles in various news papers and biz papers (Dispatch, Tennessean, etc...) noting the cities and that British Airways was hoping to fly a 787 on route. Columbus sent a delegation to London to pitch. Where are Ricky and Frank (and the PD story about the route?)

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Apparently Nashville in the running too. I found about a half dozen Aug/Sept articles in various news papers and biz papers (Dispatch, Tennessean, etc...) noting the cities and that British Airways was hoping to fly a 787 on route. Columbus sent a delegation to London to pitch. Where are Ricky and Frank (and the PD story about the route?)

 

I would think BA would demand a new FIS?  Do we even have one anymore?  It used to be on Concourse A, but I can't remember going through it in the last 10 years.

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^Yes, the FIS is still under "A", though needs a lot of work. Its a top priority, in my opinion for the city, as it is critical to attract a new int'l route, but the city doesn't care. or has other priorities. The Department of Port Control spent some $85 MILLION on two parking lots in Brook Park where the cost of a new FIS would have been far less and have a much bigger impact on the airport and air service in the region. (Under the deal with parking lots, the same folks who worked there and ran them get to stay AND the city pays the former owner a bunch of money as a fee on top of what he pays his employees to 'run' the lots.) Extremely shady or just incompetent?

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Where did you hear that SLC is in the running or that they will be adding a stop from a PHX origin flight? I've only heard that IND, CMH, CLE, and STL are in the running.

 

BA recently met with the Mormon Church in SLC.  Whoever (and it could be more than one between BA and AA) gets these LHR routes will probably be the one that can guaranty corporate customers buying the premium seats on a daily basis

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Apparently Nashville in the running too. I found about a half dozen Aug/Sept articles in various news papers and biz papers (Dispatch, Tennessean, etc...) noting the cities and that British Airways was hoping to fly a 787 on route. Columbus sent a delegation to London to pitch. Where are Ricky and Frank (and the PD story about the route?)

 

I would think BA would demand a new FIS?  Do we even have one anymore?  It used to be on Concourse A, but I can't remember going through it in the last 10 years.

 

I think the city has long ago pitched BA for an LHR route.  Remember, out of all the cities mentioned, only STL and CLE have had recent London service.  So there is an actual metric to use for both when it comes to evaluation.  I don't know that a new FIS is really that important for a one daily flight at the beginning.  As long as PAX are processed through quickly enough a new facility can wait a bit to see if the service sticks

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Bloomberg is reporting last night that UAL will trim its schedule between 6 and 7 per cent. this winter.  NRT (Tokyo) by 17 per cent and IAD (Dulles) by almost 15 per cent.  DEN (Denver) and IAH (Houston) each 7 per cent.  I would imagine that there could be a few flights affected at CLE.  In fact I believe that some have already occurred for the period January-February

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Apparently Nashville in the running too. I found about a half dozen Aug/Sept articles in various news papers and biz papers (Dispatch, Tennessean, etc...) noting the cities and that British Airways was hoping to fly a 787 on route. Columbus sent a delegation to London to pitch. Where are Ricky and Frank (and the PD story about the route?)

 

I would think BA would demand a new FIS?  Do we even have one anymore?  It used to be on Concourse A, but I can't remember going through it in the last 10 years.

 

I think the city has long ago pitched BA for an LHR route.  Remember, out of all the cities mentioned, only STL and CLE have had recent London service.  So there is an actual metric to use for both when it comes to evaluation.  I don't know that a new FIS is really that important for a one daily flight at the beginning.  As long as PAX are processed through quickly enough a new facility can wait a bit to see if the service sticks

 

I don't remember BA.  IIRC LH, AM, AF & V3 were interested in Cleveland.  LO may have also been interested.

 

I still think, that this is the perfect time for the terminal to be renovated.  Move airlines to D, while each of the concourses is upgraded and renovated.

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I still think, that this is the perfect time for the terminal to be renovated.  Move airlines to D, while each of the concourses is upgraded and renovated.

I agree, while costly, it would help attract new flights both lost domestic United flights and new international flights.  If "The Globe" turns into the international draw that some are talking of this is going to be key.

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I still think, that this is the perfect time for the terminal to be renovated.  Move airlines to D, while each of the concourses is upgraded and renovated.

I agree, while costly, it would help attract new flights both lost domestic United flights and new international flights.  If "The Globe" turns into the international draw that some are talking of this is going to be key.

 

You have to spend some money to make some money and it's easy to shift airlines around with an empty concourse than it would be if it were filled.  Then we can market the entire airport to airlines not here and international airlines.

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I still think, that this is the perfect time for the terminal to be renovated.  Move airlines to D, while each of the concourses is upgraded and renovated.

I agree, while costly, it would help attract new flights both lost domestic United flights and new international flights.  If "The Globe" turns into the international draw that some are talking of this is going to be key.

 

No...Not renovated but demolished.  Everybody could be accommodated at C and D while A and B are torn down.  A wider linear concourse could be constructed.  When finished, use that section and tear down C, replacing it with a like section.  You will now have a wider, airier, state of the art terminal with gates on both sides.  Keep D and use it for future growth or FIS

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I still think, that this is the perfect time for the terminal to be renovated.  Move airlines to D, while each of the concourses is upgraded and renovated.

I agree, while costly, it would help attract new flights both lost domestic United flights and new international flights.  If "The Globe" turns into the international draw that some are talking of this is going to be key.

 

No...Not renovated but demolished.  Everybody could be accommodated at C and D while A and B are torn down.  A wider linear concourse could be constructed.  When finished, use that section and tear down C, replacing it with a like section.  You will now have a wider, airier, state of the art terminal with gates on both sides.  Keep D and use it for future growth or FIS

 

That could work also, but D would need direct access to the terminal.

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Spirit Airlines takes flight at CLE

 

CLEVELAND -- Spirit Airlines is taking off at Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport.

 

Service with Spirit begins early next year with flights to multiple locations including Orlando, Fort Myers, Los Angeles.

 

Tickets go on sale Thursday.

 

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/09/24/cle-to-make-major-carrier-announcement/16146985/

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"@GoingPlacesCLE: Major Air Service announcement coming in 15 minutes.... stay tuned!"

 

"@GoingPlacesCLE: Mark Kopczak, VP, Network Planning with @SpiritAirlines ''We're taking our talents to Cleveland!''"

 

"@GoingPlacesCLE: Mayor Frank Jackson: They are now a valued citizen of Cleveland."

 

"@GoingPlacesCLE: Jackson: They see an opportunity here in Cleveland."

 

The only news coverage I've fund thus far.....

 

Spirit Airlines will add nonstop flights to Cleveland from Myrtle Beach

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/09/24/4494815/spirit-airlines-will-add-nonstop.html?sp=/99/101/748/


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^here's some more coverage

 


 

Spirit Airlines coming to Cleveland Hopkins Airport

 

By Joey Morona, Northeast Ohio Media Group

on September 24, 2014 at 11:37 AM, updated September 24, 2014 at 11:49 AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Another low-cost airline is coming to Cleveland Hopkins Airport.

 

Spirit Airlines will begin flying out of Cleveland starting in January, WKYC.com reported.

 

Spirit will fly to several destinations including Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Orlando, Myrtle Beach and Fort Myers.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/09/spirit_airlines_coming_to_clev.html#incart_river

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Cleveland Hopkins ‏@GoingPlacesCLE  now

Check out our pics on Facebook from this morning's press conference for @SpiritAirlines !

http://on.fb.me/1ohZwPK


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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With these Spirit additions, CLE has recovered approximately 66 per cent. of the capacity that was cut when United de-hubbed.  Granted, a lot of previous city pairs are gone, but the available seats are recovering nicely - and in only six-months. 

 

Frontier and Spirit should stimulate demand.  Due to somewhat lower fares, more discretionary travelers will be able to afford to fly.  United of course will still have a "premium product" and will retain those it already has. 

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MD88: you think Southwest has to make a move at CLE to stay relevant? And what about their future at CAK? Nothing I would love more than them pulling up stakes there. CAK has stolen enough business from CLE the last decade with its discount focus - and time for it to return to the convenient choice for  travelers in that area versus being a regional draw.

 

With regards to the capacity increase after the United cuts, United itself seems to be using larger equipment more frequently than before (to ORD). I haven't been on an ERJ 135/145 in months on that route and not hard to avoid flying them at times I want to fly. B737s/A319s/E175s, etc. CLE-ORD now seem more the norm than in recent years.

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MD88: you think Southwest has to make a move at CLE to stay relevant? And what about their future at CAK? Nothing I would love more than them pulling up stakes there. CAK has stolen enough business from CLE the last decade with its discount focus - and time for it to return to the convenient choice for  travelers in that area versus being a regional draw.

 

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it, the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. 

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With these Spirit additions, CLE has recovered approximately 66 per cent. of the capacity that was cut when United de-hubbed.  Granted, a lot of previous city pairs are gone, but the available seats are recovering nicely - and in only six-months. 

 

Frontier and Spirit should stimulate demand.  Due to somewhat lower fares, more discretionary travelers will be able to afford to fly.  United of course will still have a "premium product" and will retain those it already has. 

 

I still think this is a Non Factor considering JetBlue and Virgin are not in our market.  In addition, United nor any of the majors made additional changes.  Delta is a cannibal and when they see openings they generally test something.  Still no non stops every West Coast destination or State Capitol.

 

The Analysts are laughing at United and still saying, "How in the world was CLE losing money?".

 

 

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MD88: you think Southwest has to make a move at CLE to stay relevant? And what about their future at CAK? Nothing I would love more than them pulling up stakes there. CAK has stolen enough business from CLE the last decade with its discount focus - and time for it to return to the convenient choice for  travelers in that area versus being a regional draw.

 

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it, the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub.

 

Exactly.  The CAK area is populous enough to warrant the flights that they have.  SWA in Cleveland is pretty much right where they want to be.  They certainly didn't challenge UAL during the hub days.  They fly from CLE to their non-hub hubs.  And for my money SAW ain't all that.  No interline agreements, etc.  And their prices are pretty much where the legacy airlines are.

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CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it' date=' the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. [/quote']

 

I disagree. A lot of people who were not connecting somewhere drove to CAK for a flight. Even I did it once though I said I wouldn't do so. But I had to go to NY with a few days notice---flights out of CLE (UA/DL/AA) were $800 and CAK (AirTran) was $200. So if someone was very opposed to it did it, think about all the thousands that couldn't care less, but just wanted a cheaper fare (and by 75%! in this case). Furthermore, stealing pax from CLE was an active strategy of CAK. They even had billboards in Downtown CLE about being the 'easier' or 'cheaper' or something airport referring to it as a comparison to Hopkins.

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With these Spirit additions, CLE has recovered approximately 66 per cent. of the capacity that was cut when United de-hubbed.  Granted, a lot of previous city pairs are gone, but the available seats are recovering nicely - and in only six-months. 

 

Frontier and Spirit should stimulate demand.  Due to somewhat lower fares, more discretionary travelers will be able to afford to fly.  United of course will still have a "premium product" and will retain those it already has. 

 

I still think this is a Non Factor considering JetBlue and Virgin are not in our market.  In addition, United nor any of the majors made additional changes.  Delta is a cannibal and when they see openings they generally test something.  Still no non stops every West Coast destination or State Capitol.

 

The Analysts are laughing at United and still saying, "How in the world was CLE losing money?".

 

 

 

What would jetBlue or Virgin bring to the CLE market that it doesn't already have?  They are hardly a superior product.

 

I agree with your last statement.  The real reason UAL killed CLE was because of ROI (Return on Investment) not because of poor O&D or losing money.  Last January (I think) on the investor conference call, UAL said it was evaluating items based on ROI.  Now, for a hub to have a good ROI you have to push lots of flights and people through it.  At 200 flights per day, CLE's days were numbered.  The fixed costs are pretty much the same whether there are 200 or 400 or 600 flights per day.  The less there are the lower ROI.

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CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it' date=' the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. [/quote']

 

I disagree. A lot of people who were not connecting somewhere drove to CAK for a flight. Even I did it once though I said I wouldn't do so. But I had to go to NY with a few days notice---flights out of CLE (UA/DL/AA) were $800 and CAK (AirTran) was $200. So if someone was very opposed to it did it, think about all the thousands that couldn't care less, but just wanted a cheaper fare (and by 75%! in this case). Furthermore, stealing pax from CLE was an active strategy of CAK. They even had billboards in Downtown CLE about being the 'easier' or 'cheaper' or something airport referring to it as a comparison to Hopkins.

Yes, but the majority of people going to CAK were LLC travelers, not those already in the Continental/United ecosystem.  The low fare doesn't always equal overall greater value or savings.

 

Spirit surprises me because they have such bad service.  Also the majority of flights are going to already served "leisure" / "vacation" destinations.  Dallas and LA will help but we need more.  We lack middle America and the West Coast.

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CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it, the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. 

 

CAK enplanements have risen more than 120 percent since 2000 while CLE's has fallen before UAL dehubbed CLE. Of course CAK has stolen from CLE, and from PIT too.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it' date=' the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. [/quote']

 

I disagree. A lot of people who were not connecting somewhere drove to CAK for a flight. Even I did it once though I said I wouldn't do so. But I had to go to NY with a few days notice---flights out of CLE (UA/DL/AA) were $800 and CAK (AirTran) was $200. So if someone was very opposed to it did it, think about all the thousands that couldn't care less, but just wanted a cheaper fare (and by 75%! in this case). Furthermore, stealing pax from CLE was an active strategy of CAK. They even had billboards in Downtown CLE about being the 'easier' or 'cheaper' or something airport referring to it as a comparison to Hopkins.

Yes, but the majority of people going to CAK were LLC travelers, not those already in the Continental/United ecosystem.  The low fare doesn't always equal overall greater value or savings.

 

Spirit surprises me because they have such bad service.  Also the majority of flights are going to already served "leisure" / "vacation" destinations.  Dallas and LA will help but we need more.  We lack middle America and the West Coast.

 

Exactly:  Demand was created via low fares.  Just because one airline of airport lowers fares doesn't mean the others suffer.  remember People Express in 1981?  They took a hardly used airport (EWR) and turned it into a mega hub.  LGA and JFK didn't suffer.  PEX created demand.  Frontier and Spirit will too. 

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With regards to the capacity increase after the United cuts' date=' United itself seems to be using larger equipment more frequently than before (to ORD). I haven't been on an ERJ 135/145 in months on that route and not hard to avoid flying them at times I want to fly. B737s/A319s/E175s, etc. CLE-ORD now seem more the norm than in recent years.[/quote']

 

That's because UA wants all of CLE to go to ORD and connect to where they're going. Personally, if I'm going to connect, I'm definitely not flying UA--I'll fly DL or AA and transfer in one of their hubs. Since their dehub announcement, I haven't stepped on a single UA flight - even though I have silver or gold status on them.

 

I still think this is a Non Factor considering JetBlue and Virgin are not in our market.  In addition' date=' United nor any of the majors made additional changes.  Delta is a cannibal and when they see openings they generally test something.  Still no non stops every West Coast destination or State Capitol.[/quote']

 

 

I agree. I'd like more legacy (DL, AA) service to other business locations, as well as some flights to LHR, AMS, and FRA by any carrier. For the record, DL did add some flights--to IND and BDL. AA upgauged some equipment on existing routes.

 

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