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Cleveland Hopkins International Airport

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In my ideal plan for the airport, they would get rid of all the parking adjacent the airport and build a couple of massive parking garages and hotels next to the Brookpark rapid station (or to a  new rapid station south of the airport) and make the rapid cheap or fee from there into the terminal.  Move the "curbside" drop-off, taxi services, shuttles, etc. to that station and make the airport rapid station into a more welcoming gateway for all passengers and employees coming into the airport.

 

 

That would immediately free up land around the terminal.  Extend the building over the current roadway and put the ticket counters there,  and reconfigure the security checkpoints to something more user-friendly in place of the current ticket counter lineup.

 

Going further, how about a regional passenger train station connection near the airport as well, drawing potential customers to the airport from Pittsburgh and Columbus -- and a quality rail network to every major urban center within 200 miles.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know. 🙄

 

 

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On 10/1/2019 at 1:48 PM, Foraker said:

Going further, how about a regional passenger train station connection near the airport as well, drawing potential customers to the airport from Pittsburgh and Columbus -- and a quality rail network to every major urban center within 200 miles.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know. 🙄

 

 

 

A regional passenger rail station was included in one of the conceptual designs by the consultant.

Hopkins Airport masterplan sketch 2019.jpg

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Icelandair just dropped SFO and Kansas City. There was talk earlier that they wanted to swap KC (on a 757) and CLE (on a Max8). Might this be the beginning of the swap assuming more delays in the Max8? Or does it just reflect other issues going on at Icelandair? Not sure.

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Spirit Airlines will fly new Cleveland-to-Cancun route, starting in February

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Spirit Airlines is adding its first international destination from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, flying between Cleveland and Cancun, Mexico, starting in February.

The route will operate year-round four days per week — Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday, starting Feb. 14.

Spirit will have some competition on the route. Frontier Airlines, another low-cost carrier, flies between Cleveland and Cancun, three times per week.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/10/spirit-airlines-will-fly-new-cleveland-to-cancun-route-starting-in-february.html

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^i understand the numbers, i just dont understand the human patterns. We have three airlines now that go to Cancun?  Are there really no other destinations that have demand for a flight?  People from our region really go to Cancun enough to support three airlines with non-stops, but no other places like Nassau, San Juan, Jamaica, i could go on.  Its just weird...i have like no desire to go to Cancun and i love to travel and i love warm weather.

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8 hours ago, BelievelandD1 said:

^i understand the numbers, i just dont understand the human patterns. We have three airlines now that go to Cancun?  Are there really no other destinations that have demand for a flight?  People from our region really go to Cancun enough to support three airlines with non-stops, but no other places like Nassau, San Juan, Jamaica, i could go on.  Its just weird...i have like no desire to go to Cancun and i love to travel and i love warm weather.

Cancun seems to be very popular O&D.  I'm surprised San Juan, Panama City, St Thomas, the Bahamas and Mexico City aren't more popular.

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I think it has to do with the large resorts. I went to Tulum on the direct Frontier flight and almost everyone on the plane was going to the same resort in Cancun. All of the announcements, etc. were geared towards those passengers.

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9 hours ago, bumsquare said:

I think it has to do with the large resorts. I went to Tulum on the direct Frontier flight and almost everyone on the plane was going to the same resort in Cancun. All of the announcements, etc. were geared towards those passengers.

 

Yes lots of resorts competing with each other (i.e. "cheap") 

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21 hours ago, bumsquare said:

I think it has to do with the large resorts. I went to Tulum on the direct Frontier flight and almost everyone on the plane was going to the same resort in Cancun. All of the announcements, etc. were geared towards those passengers.

 

Tulum is awesome.  The cool spots are by the beach, but even the dusty old town has some gems such as the best mojito spot I've ever been to.  To keep this on topic: planes!

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I vote brand new terminal. It’s encouraging that the airlines are paying for it. I can only assume what route they’ll wanna take. It’s time.

 

https://trib.al/8MzgTGp

 

 

“The plan will likely include several possibilities for remaking the aging airport, both short- and long-term, modest to major. A new terminal, at a cost of more than $1 billion, is one probable option.”

 

“The company will be paid $4.5 million for the plan, funded by the airlines that do business in Cleveland.”

 

 

Edited by marty15
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6 hours ago, marty15 said:

I vote brand new terminal. It’s encouraging that the airlines are paying for it. I can only assume what route they’ll wanna take. It’s time.

 

https://trib.al/8MzgTGp

 

 

“The plan will likely include several possibilities for remaking the aging airport, both short- and long-term, modest to major. A new terminal, at a cost of more than $1 billion, is one probable option.”

 

“The company will be paid $4.5 million for the plan, funded by the airlines that do business in Cleveland.”

 

 

..........................and in turn passed on to consumers in fares or "fees".

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On 10/22/2019 at 8:19 PM, Sapper Daddy said:

I would think even with a new terminal they would look to retain concourse C, no?  

Why would it?  or do you mean Concourse D?

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I hope D can be retained, although I'm not sure how it will should even fit into the plan--A/B, the FIS, and the main terminal must go though. Pittsburgh just got a brand new $1 billion terminal so something similar does sound appealing, but CLE is pretty landlocked and I'm sure the financial picture varies between us and Pittsburgh.


"We each pay a fabulous price
  for our visions of paradise."
     - ????, ???????

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2 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

Why would it?  or do you mean Concourse D?

I don’t know why it would.. maybe both could be salvaged.  I guess I’m proposing that based solely on personal preference.  C feels like any major city airport to me.  Having said that I don’t care a whole lot for United.

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19 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

I don’t know why it would.. maybe both could be salvaged.  I guess I’m proposing that based solely on personal preference.  C feels like any major city airport to me.  Having said that I don’t care a whole lot for United.

Concourse D is not connected to the other parts of the airport.  D is newer and could be incorporated into any new design.

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3 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

Concourse D is not connected to the other parts of the airport.  D is newer and could be incorporated into any new design.

Correct, but C and D are connected through an underground tunnel.  

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5 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Correct, but C and D are connected through an underground tunnel.  

Things I learned today ^

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5 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Correct, but C and D are connected through an underground tunnel.  

 

1 minute ago, GISguy said:

Things I learned today ^

 

How did you think people got to terminal D?  Hopefully I don’t come across as snippy, but this comment genuinely confused me. It isn’t connected to anything except via the tunnel to C. 

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11 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

How did you think people got to terminal D?  Hopefully I don’t come across as snippy, but this comment genuinely confused me. It isn’t connected to anything except via the tunnel to C. 

I'm a relative newby to Cle, and never saw the terminal functional, I'm an idiot and never even thought of that lol. If anything, I could see them using busses or something, it just seems so isolated where it is (even with a tunnel).

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1 hour ago, GISguy said:

I'm a relative newby to Cle, and never saw the terminal functional, I'm an idiot and never even thought of that lol. If anything, I could see them using busses or something, it just seems so isolated where it is (even with a tunnel).

 

That makes sense. Yes, D is isolated. When you are walking down C, right next to Great Lakes Brewery, there is a big Cleveland script sign - that sign is covering the escalators to the tunnel. D is actually a very nice terminal for the commuter jets (ERJs and the like) - perfect for a hub airport. Not so great for an Origin & Destination airport as CLE has become. 

 

I keep thinking that a new Arrivals and Baggage Hall along the southern exit road might work and could tie directly to a renovated D (and C and the existing Arr/ Drop off / pick up area). Then rebuild each existing concourse, one at a time. It would almost certainly be less expensive than a new terminal at the IX center site and it would utilize the existing infrastructure, specifically the parking garage and the RTA station. 

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That would be a great opportunity to repurpose D, in order to allow the new concourses to be rebuilt one at a time without gate loss. Hope that’s possible.

 

I don’t see any point in keeping C. Compared to new terminals out there it’s still small, dark and narrow.

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For those who don't know and / or are new to Cleveland.  Concourse D was intended to be connected to the main Terminal.  Initially there was to be a Security access point on the southside of the terminal.  The terminal would wrap around to connect with D above for Security and below directly to baggage claim.

 

The terminal was built to accommodate Regional Jets and Boeing 737 or airbus 320 planes.  However, most of the planes that used the terminal were ERJ 135/145s

 

This is why I think the concourse should be kept if a new airport is built as it can be used while the airport is transitioning.

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If Cleveland had a world class airport. Does everyone feel that would be the number one driver in turning around Cleveland in attracting population and jobs? You know, "build it they will come" scenario. Is it possible? Denver did it. Would there still be risk in failure? Do super airports only get built on geographic locations or population that already exist?

 

Edited by Mildtraumatic

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8 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

If Cleveland had a world class airport. Does everyone feel that would be the number one driver in turning around Cleveland in attracting population and jobs? You know, "build it they will come" scenario. Is it possible? Denver did it. Would there still be risk in failure?

 

No

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9 hours ago, surfohio said:

^ I thought there was a huge underground connector to D. Am I confused in my old age? 

 

Lawd.  Did I say or imply there was not? That question is not sarcasm.

 

INITIALLY concourse D was planned to be connected to the main terminal AND have the underground connection we have today.

 

The Terminal connection was dropped and we were left with just the underground connection we have today.  

 

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48 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

If Cleveland had a world class airport. Does everyone feel that would be the number one driver in turning around Cleveland in attracting population and jobs? You know, "build it they will come" scenario. Is it possible? Denver did it. Would there still be risk in failure? Do super airports only get built on geographic locations or population that already exist?

 

snl season 44 GIF by Saturday Night Live

 

What do you mean, "Denver did it"??

Edited by MyTwoSense
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49 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

If Cleveland had a world class airport. Does everyone feel that would be the number one driver in turning around Cleveland in attracting population and jobs? You know, "build it they will come" scenario. Is it possible? Denver did it. Would there still be risk in failure? Do super airports only get built on geographic locations or population that already exist?

 

 

Denver has been attracting a lot of jobs due to its economic diversification and an investment in its infrastructure (beyond just the airport).  I agree that investment in the airport in Cleveland could result in increase some economic opportunities.  It definitely would not be the number one driver, though.  

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4 minutes ago, plinth857 said:

 

Denver has been attracting a lot of jobs due to its economic diversification and an investment in its infrastructure (beyond just the airport).  I agree that investment in the airport in Cleveland could result in increase some economic opportunities.  It definitely would not be the number one driver, though.  

Denver was a hub airport for decades.  However, due to location it's a regional hub for business.  There are a lot of variables, so just to write, "Denver did it", is very very misleading and offers no context.

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2 hours ago, Mildtraumatic said:

If Cleveland had a world class airport. Does everyone feel that would be the number one driver in turning around Cleveland in attracting population and jobs? You know, "build it they will come" scenario. Is it possible? Denver did it. Would there still be risk in failure? Do super airports only get built on geographic locations or population that already exist?

 

 

I am interested in the new airport master plan. I hope we aggressively pursue either substantial renovation (e.g. replacing or dramatically expanding each concourse) or a new terminal on the site of the IX Center, whichever the current studies find to be more cost effective. (I fully expect the former, but I suppose the latter is possible.) It would certainly have a positive impact on the local economy. 

 

All that said, here are several other projects that I’m confident would have a more substantial economic impact per dollar spent:

- 3C intercity rail to Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati , starting w 3 round trips a day, adding more as ridership increases. 

- Relocation of I-90 East to the south of Gordon Park to create an “East Side Edgewater” and bring new residents and investment to St Clair / Superior. 

- Increased investment in Tri C, including expansion of vocational tracks. 

- County support and/or increased state support of CSU. They’ve made tremendous progress; let’s make it a flagship university 

- Successful CityBlock entrepreneurial incubator. 

- Downtown intermodal (rail/bus) transit center at Amtrak location / land bridge over railroad tracks and Shoreway. (Directly connected to convention center and  East 9th Waterfront Line station)

- Full roll out of Ohio Hub intercity rail plan. Imagine trains every hour or two to Chicago, Detroit, Pittsburgh, upstate New York, complementing the previously established 3C to Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati. 

- Proper Commuter Rail roll out - connect people to jobs. Lorain to downtown CLE to Solon, Elyria to Hopkins airport to downtown to Lake County, and Hopkins to downtown to Akron to Canton. Think about the nice little downtowns that Hudson and Cuyahoga Falls have created and how much they could benefit w direct public transit to downtown Cle, downtown Akron and BOTH airports. (Also note that this would create regular train service direct from the convention center and the transit center to both airports)

- Completion of the Waterfront Line as a downtown loop, which makes all of the existing and above proposed infrastructure that much more useful. 

- City Target. 😂

 

The airport has the advantage of a funding mechanism for its renovation or replacement - specifically, the fees the airlines pay to it. And I support investment in the airport. I just think there are a bunch of other things that would have s bigger impact per dollar spent. 

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48 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

I am interested in the new airport master plan. I hope we aggressively pursue either substantial renovation (e.g. replacing or dramatically expanding each concourse) or a new terminal on the site of the IX Center, whichever the current studies find to be more cost effective. (I fully expect the former, but I suppose the latter is possible.) It would certainly have a positive impact on the local economy. 

 

The airport has the advantage of a funding mechanism for its renovation or replacement - specifically, the fees the airlines pay to it. And I support investment in the airport. I just think there are a bunch of other things that would have s bigger impact per dollar spent. 

 

With all due respect lets just discuss the airport in this thread/forum. 

 

The airport is captive to those who want leases. If we cannot attract larger airlines that want O/D passengers, rebuilding/building a new airport doesn't solely work. 

 

As a frequent user of Cleveland's airport, we have a large airport in terms of gates.75 gates is nothing to laugh at.  The problem with expansion is we do not have an international terminal.  That is needed, to ensure more European, Asian and Caribbean/S. American passengers.  Along with that we need a MUCH better mass transit system and tri-fold marketing campaign.  One for locals/NE Ohio.  (example how many people know we have a ChinaTown/Asian Village?), Ohio/Touch States and National in Coastal and targeting those that are music fans, dinners/foodies, etc. (but these things are for other threads)

 

Whatever happens, I hope the city uses Concourse D as a place to move airlines while things are being constructed or built.  We'll also need to partner with company's like AMEX to put in lounge.  International-ize local businesses within in the airport. I think the Sheraton should be torn down.  Whatever onsite hotel is built needs to have direct access to the terminal.

 

Our airport needs to make sure they we have representation by ALL domestic carriers, something we currently do not have.  I would love to see Alaska and Hawaiian set up shop here.  Frontier has been successful at building up a leisure passenger base that they designated Cleveland as a Focus City.  IIRC, it's the airlines 5th largest operation.   While Southwest did nothing.  Jet Blue flies to two cities, thats nothing.  Also note, United has increased service to  some routes that it initially cut.  Yet it gave up on Boston.  Now CLE-BOS is served by JetBlue, Delta and soon American.  If JB can take away a route like that from United, they can do better here.  Also Delta on the low increased direct flights from CLE even though DTW is hub and CIN a focus city.  Alaska cut back in Bigger hubs like Dallas, Houston to concentrate on the West Coast, a place we dont have a lot of connections.  Some Alaska or United shuttle flights from Cleveland to Portland, San Jose, San Diego, Seattle and LA., business and leisure travelers would have options. 

 

I would love to fly to San Juan, St. John, St. Croix  or Honolulu.  Internationally Panama city, Bahamas, Dom Rep, Kingston, Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec C., Calgary, London, Frankfort, Berlin, Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai, Tokyo, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, San Salvador, Guatemala City, just to name a few places

 

There are a lot of things need to create and maintain a functional, profitable airport. but we need to get the basics right.  A new master plan is a start, but only a start.

 

IF it were up to me, I'd be working with the city/state/county/federal officials to bury 480 and extend all three runways toward North.  I would then building a new terminal south of the current.  I would then move the car rental facility a top the Brookpark train station or create a multi-modal station on the snow road lots.

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6 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

^American is picking BOS-CLE?  Is that off the record?

 

I heard some rumblings. However, the person is only about 50% accurate in information passed.  But even when wrong, there is a bit of truth later on down the line.  It appears American wants in on some of the O&D at competitors hubs.  They can turn planes.  I expect fares to the NE to fall.  They also indicated increase in seats to , which I took as larger planes but not increases in frequencies.  They also indicated more STL, MIA, and NoLa

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58 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

With all due respect lets just discuss the airport in this thread/forum. 

 

The airport is captive to those who want leases. If we cannot attract larger airlines that want O/D passengers, rebuilding/building a new airport doesn't solely work. 

 

As a frequent user of Cleveland's airport, we have a large airport in terms of gates.75 gates is nothing to laugh at.  The problem with expansion is we do not have an international terminal.  That is needed, to ensure more European, Asian and Caribbean/S. American passengers.  Along with that we need a MUCH better mass transit system and tri-fold marketing campaign.  One for locals/NE Ohio.  (example how many people know we have a ChinaTown/Asian Village?), Ohio/Touch States and National in Coastal and targeting those that are music fans, dinners/foodies, etc. (but these things are for other threads)

 

Whatever happens, I hope the city uses Concourse D as a place to move airlines while things are being constructed or built.  We'll also need to partner with company's like AMEX to put in lounge.  International-ize local businesses within in the airport. I think the Sheraton should be torn down.  Whatever onsite hotel is built needs to have direct access to the terminal.

 

Our airport needs to make sure they we have representation by ALL domestic carriers, something we currently do not have.  I would love to see Alaska and Hawaiian set up shop here.  Frontier has been successful at building up a leisure passenger base that they designated Cleveland as a Focus City.  IIRC, it's the airlines 5th largest operation.   While Southwest did nothing.  Jet Blue flies to two cities, thats nothing.  Also note, United has increased service to  some routes that it initially cut.  Yet it gave up on Boston.  Now CLE-BOS is served by JetBlue, Delta and soon American.  If JB can take away a route like that from United, they can do better here.  Also Delta on the low increased direct flights from CLE even though DTW is hub and CIN a focus city.  Alaska cut back in Bigger hubs like Dallas, Houston to concentrate on the West Coast, a place we dont have a lot of connections.  Some Alaska or United shuttle flights from Cleveland to Portland, San Jose, San Diego, Seattle and LA., business and leisure travelers would have options. 

 

I would love to fly to San Juan, St. John, St. Croix  or Honolulu.  Internationally Panama city, Bahamas, Dom Rep, Kingston, Vancouver, Montreal, Quebec C., Calgary, London, Frankfort, Berlin, Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai, Tokyo, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, San Salvador, Guatemala City, just to name a few places

 

There are a lot of things need to create and maintain a functional, profitable airport. but we need to get the basics right.  A new master plan is a start, but only a start.

 

IF it were up to me, I'd be working with the city/state/county/federal officials to bury 480 and extend all three runways toward North.  I would then building a new terminal south of the current.  I would then move the car rental facility a top the Brookpark train station or create a multi-modal station on the snow road lots.

 

I fully agree with burying 480 and extending the runways. I have thought about this a lot - I always thought it was strange that they located the rental car facility where it is, because the runways should go there. I also fully agree with the need for an international terminal, or at least a proper international area. 

 

I think all of this can be done at the current location. Once the United lease on D is up there’s a lot of flexibility for more substantial rebuilds of the concourses. I prefer the current location because it already has the Red Line, the parking garage, and the proximity to rail lines for a future station. This would be VERY expensive to recreate at the IX Center location. 

 

I also agree with getting an airport hotel w direct terminal access. 

 

It would be great to see Alaska or Delta fly direct to Seattle. San Juan, Frankfort, and London would all be great. I don’t know how your other requests would come anywhere close to filling airplanes, but I’m all for wishful thinking. 

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There isn’t a reason we shouldn’t have direct Seattle in Alaska and direct Montreal on Air Canada.  Both of those are large markets and hubs for each airlines. Confusing what Alaska sees in Columbus and Pittsburgh but not Hopkins 

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1 hour ago, B767PILOT said:

They see and get subsidies

 

The flights have also been pretty full out of Columbus as far as I know. There’s no reason they wouldn’t see the same level of demand in Cleveland though. 

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