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Cincinnati: Downtown: Convention Center

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9 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

 

If we are looking to compete with Indy or Nashville for major nationwide conventions, I highly doubt we can do that given the constraints of the current set-up. 

 

I don't know much about conventions, but it would be prudent during this expansion to try and develop with a niche or two in mind, something those other two can't offer and lock it in that way.

 

If we actually worked as a cohesive region, the best idea would be to expand the Covington convention center into the IRS lot, at which point, we could create a better convention center than Indy or Nashville, but it is KY, so nah.

 

Regional Convention Center breakdown 

 

Chicago* - 1.2 million sq/ft contiguous exhibit space

Indianapolis* - 566,000 sq/ft contiguous exhibit space

Columbus* - 373,000 sq/ft contiguous exhibit space

Nashville - 353,000 sq/ft contiguous exhibit space

Cleveland - 225,000 sq/ft contiguous exhibit space

Louisville - 200,000 sq/ft contiguous exhibit space

Cincinnati - 195,000 sq/ft contiguous exhibit space 

 

* Indicates Convention Centers with connected 1,000+ room hotel

 

I also think the IRS site is the best choice because it gives the space and is a clean slate, but yeah, Kentucky. 

 

 

 

 

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In a perfect world we would just build a giant new Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Convention Center on the IRS site. There is a ton of space there, so you can build a massive, continuous show floor without having to demolish any historic structures or mess up the street grid any more than it already is. Expand the Southbank Shuttle into something more frequent with higher capacity to connect conventioneers with Downtown Cincinnati, Mainstrasse, Newport, etc. Demolish the existing Duke Energy Center, reconnect Plum Street, and fill in those blocks with new mixed-use infill.

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4 minutes ago, taestell said:

In a perfect world we would just build a giant new Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Convention Center on the IRS site. There is a ton of space there, so you can build a massive, continuous show floor without having to demolish any historic structures or mess up the street grid any more than it already is. Expand the Southbank Shuttle into something more frequent with higher capacity to connect conventioneers with Downtown Cincinnati, Mainstrasse, Newport, etc. Demolish the existing Duke Energy Center, reconnect Plum Street, and fill in those block with new mixed-use infill.

 

The amount of heads that would roll if this ever happened. Truly showing we arent a region but secular areas the way politicians work around here. 

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7 minutes ago, taestell said:

In a perfect world...

 

...we'd build a new convention center over the spaghetti bowl of I-75, fronting onto Central Avenue and with all the loading docks and crap on the Queensgate side. 

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I think the future will regret tearing this building down and not renovating or restoring it. I say this, first, as someone who thinks architecture tells a story of humanity, second, not as a preservationist but as an environmentalist. It is incredibly wasteful to tear down a 51 year old building.

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13 minutes ago, taestell said:

In a perfect world we would just build a giant new Greater Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Convention Center on the IRS site. There is a ton of space there, so you can build a massive, continuous show floor without having to demolish any historic structures or mess up the street grid any more than it already is. Expand the Southbank Shuttle into something more frequent with higher capacity to connect conventioneers with Downtown Cincinnati, Mainstrasse, Newport, etc. Demolish the existing Duke Energy Center, reconnect Plum Street, and fill in those block with new mixed-use infill.

 

 

Not a chance this will ever happen. It would cost 1 Billion+ dollars or so to build a new convention center from scratch and another 250+ Million dollars to build a convention center hotel (the new center would have to have at least 1 large hotel connected at the IRS site) therefore KY can’t pay that price tag by itself and would require Cincinnati, Hamilton County, State of Ohio ETC to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a building that’s in a entirely different state and that they wouldn’t even own or get tax dollars from. All the while Downtown Cincinnati Hotels freak out over the convention center moving across the river.

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20 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I think the future will regret tearing this building down and not renovating or restoring it. I say this, first, as someone who thinks architecture tells a story of humanity, second, not as a preservationist but as an environmentalist. It is incredibly wasteful to tear down a 51 year old building.

I completely agree with this. A new skin and some paint would do wonders. a new skin could cover the edge slab condition helping the insulation and would make the building look brand new. The floor to floor heights aren't terrible for hotel space. If nothing else it would save tons of waste on demolition, concrete and steel. I hate how much waste is construction and how flippantly people are willing to demolish buildings that took tons of time, money and materials to construct.

 

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1 hour ago, 646empire said:

 

 

Not a chance this will ever happen. It would cost 1 Billion+ dollars or so to build a new convention center from scratch and another 250+ Million dollars to build a convention center hotel (the new center would have to have at least 1 large hotel connected at the IRS site) therefore KY can’t pay that price tag by itself and would require Cincinnati, Hamilton County, State of Ohio ETC to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a building that’s in a entirely different state and that they wouldn’t even own or get tax dollars from. All the while Downtown Cincinnati Hotels freak out over the convention center moving across the river.

 

They would have to form a bistate agency through an act of Congress (like the Port Authority of NY/NJ) that would be able to sell bonds and collect hotel taxes from both sides of the river.  

 

Also, there is no reason why the Duke Energy Center couldn't remain as-is in such a scenario.  Nashville has the huge Opryland Hotel convention space along with the huge new downtown convention center.  They had a smaller downtown convention center from the 1980s (probably smaller than the Duke Energy Center is now) and that was torn down about 4 years ago and it's currently the site of a big 2-tower development.  But that piece of land was much more central (right on Broadway) as compared to the Duke Energy Center.  

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, 646empire said:

 

 

Not a chance this will ever happen. It would cost 1 Billion+ dollars or so to build a new convention center from scratch and another 250+ Million dollars to build a convention center hotel (the new center would have to have at least 1 large hotel connected at the IRS site) therefore KY can’t pay that price tag by itself and would require Cincinnati, Hamilton County, State of Ohio ETC to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a building that’s in a entirely different state and that they wouldn’t even own or get tax dollars from. All the while Downtown Cincinnati Hotels freak out over the convention center moving across the river.

 The floor height is an issue as the real problem it creates is with the bathrooms and plumbing. You cant quite build the modern bathroom people want now a days.

 

The hotel reminds me a lot of the SHeraton in downtown Indy near Monument Circle. They are similar aged hotels. On the outside it looks fine, but you go inside, and there are so many structural limitations that keep it from really being a much more modern hotel. If you are going to build a world class convention hotel, you need to do it right. Otherwise, you are just putting lipstick on a pig. New skin is an upgrade but will never make it a world class hotel.

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19 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Otherwise, you are just putting lipstick on a pig. New skin is an upgrade but will never make it a world class hotel.

Agreed, but this is me assuming that it stays and becomes a 'good' hotel while a new fancier Conrad, JW or something else gets built brand new. I just don't like the idea of demolishing buildings, or the even the idea of removing 800 rooms from the market for 2+ years. If we build the new hotel and then renovate Millennium after it opens, we will never be down the 800 rooms and it will all just be an add. 

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On 4/25/2019 at 7:50 PM, SleepyLeroy said:

For those that don't remember, this was a floated 'what if' render not too long ago where part of the front building was demolished and the remaining reclad and repurposed. If the bones are good, it can easily be turned into almost anything with enough money. image.thumb.png.2970f04c4ce375a7532b630a82cd1181.png

Remember this? Anyone?

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“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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18 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Agreed, but this is me assuming that it stays and becomes a 'good' hotel while a new fancier Conrad, JW or something else gets built brand new. I just don't like the idea of demolishing buildings, or the even the idea of removing 800 rooms from the market for 2+ years. If we build the new hotel and then renovate Millennium after it opens, we will never be down the 800 rooms and it will all just be an add. 

I would tear down the smaller tower. I think that is in worse shape than the bigger tower. Build a new 600-800 room hotel on the other site. Remodel the taller tower. add a ballroom /meeting space over the smaller tower footprint.

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1 hour ago, JYP said:

Remember this? Anyone?


There was also this Marriott proposal which I'm not sure was ever leaked or shown anywhere. I got this from someone I know that worked at the city doing something tourism related. I was told not to share it and kinda forgot about it until just now haha.

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1 hour ago, jmicha said:


There was also this Marriott proposal which I'm not sure was ever leaked or shown anywhere. I got this from someone I know that worked at the city doing something tourism related. I was told not to share it and kinda forgot about it until just now haha.

12283263_10205359061202238_234236886_n.jpg

When is this from?

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2 hours ago, jmicha said:


There was also this Marriott proposal which I'm not sure was ever leaked or shown anywhere. I got this from someone I know that worked at the city doing something tourism related. I was told not to share it and kinda forgot about it until just now haha.

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This was when Columbia Sussex had interest in the Millennium, gave up after trying to buy it and went ahead with the Renassiance on 4th Street

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If Hamilton County is involved in this project too, what are the odds they can keep their eye on the ball for 180 Walnut and the rest of the Banks at the same time?

 

(Spoiler: IMO not very good) 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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28 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

If Hamilton County is involved in this project too, what are the odds they can keep their eye on the ball for 180 Walnut and the rest of the Banks at the same time?

 

(Spoiler: IMO not very good) 

Once the county agrees to incentives or tax breaks, its all up to Gableman and the Banks Steering Committee. Because the lot is already built up and ready to go. So county's hand should be done with it quickly in the beginning stages. 

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Convention hotel bid gets closed-door consideration

By Chris Wetterich  – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The Convention Facilities Authority, which may be asked to help with a developer’s bid to purchase and redevelop the Millennium Hotel downtown, went into executive session on Tuesday night to discuss it.

The obscure panel, which is filled with high-power appointees of Hamilton County and the city of Cincinnati, may be asked to issue bonds to help finance Vandercar Holdings’ purchase and redevelopment of the Millennium Hotel.

 

MORE

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I'm still trying to comprehend how they will manage the lack of supply in hotel rooms once the millennium is demolished. It will take years for the site to be fully redeveloped. 

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48 minutes ago, troeros said:

I'm still trying to comprehend how they will manage the lack of supply in hotel rooms once the millennium is demolished. It will take years for the site to be fully redeveloped. 

 

Especially being connected directly to the convention center.

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16 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said:

 

Especially being connected directly to the convention center.

I would think that they may let 3cdc continue their new convention center hotel then after that’s complete do whatever they are going to do to the millenium.  But knowing how the city works they’ll prolly just tear it down then let it sit vacant with no hotel for a couple years. 

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Interesting, fingers crossed that this is a good sign and that it will remain a parking lot for a temporary period of time. 

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So, as far as I am aware, the city/county now own a pretty significant swath of land adjacent to the convention center. Thoughts on how they expand this thing?

 

convention.thumb.PNG.037e810a90a6b32da87aebbe62ed60fb.PNG

Edited by 10albersa

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4 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

So, as far as I am aware, the city/county now own a pretty significant swath of land adjacent to the convention center. Thoughts on how they expand this thing?

 

convention.thumb.PNG.037e810a90a6b32da87aebbe62ed60fb.PNG

 

That's alot of land wow!

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32 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

So, as far as I am aware, the city/county now own a pretty significant swath of land adjacent to the convention center. Thoughts on how they expand this thing?

 

convention.thumb.PNG.037e810a90a6b32da87aebbe62ed60fb.PNG

 

 

Question:

Does the city own Whex garage? I was wondering will they tear it down or keep it if they own it. I work for building management at the Textile Building and the owners are in thought of using it for parking for the Textile Building renovations into Condos/Apartments in the next year or so

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The south lot is the worst spot for convention center expansion.  They need continuous space in convention centers, so only being able to partly expand south isn't very helpful. 

 

I think expanding west is the best option but would probably be the most expensive having to go over the highway.  Plus the Brent Spence confusion will likely prevent that from happening. 

 

Expanding north would give them the most new space but you'd have to replace all that parking (or you could not replace them, because we already have plenty of parking.  Expanding east isn't giving you much new space.  I think south is best for a brand new convention center hotel while the Millennium can be upgraded but stay as a mid tier hotel.  Knocking the Millennium down and building a new hotel in it's place doesn't do anything to help the shortage of hotel rooms we currently have.  

Edited by Cincy513

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Also the Greater Cincinnati Foundation building right across the street from the Textile building and right next door to Whex garage is completely vacant as of last week

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/convention-place-building-to-be-demolished-converted-to-parking-lot/ar-AAFQLDp?fbclid=IwAR2iR9Tv1q6A2AEr5_glCxqqXt0z3NCxirvZFzB7EyLyG1p5WyeLrASF54I

 

I wonder what they will be planning for this site. Says temporarily, but how construction goes in Cincinnati, we prolly won’t be seeing anything for 5-10 years.

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Just now, Ucgrad2015 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/convention-place-building-to-be-demolished-converted-to-parking-lot/ar-AAFQLDp?fbclid=IwAR2iR9Tv1q6A2AEr5_glCxqqXt0z3NCxirvZFzB7EyLyG1p5WyeLrASF54I

 

I wonder what they will be planning for this site. Says temporarily, but how construction goes in Cincinnati, we prolly won’t be seeing anything for 5-10 years.

 

I'd have less confidence if this was not associated with the convention overhaul plans..being that it probably is, we will probably see that site developed fairly quickly. 

 

In my mind, assuming millennium is redeveloped, I imagine any type of movement with that lot will probably occur after 4th and Race is done...which is probably another year or so...

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https://www.wvxu.org/post/multi-story-downtown-building-coming-down-what-remains-be-seen#stream/0

 

Thr commentary by the port CEO is interesting about future development plans for that lot...."Botique Hotel, apartments, and retail."

 

It would make the most sense for this botique Hotel to be constructed first by 3cdc as a way to gap the loss of hotel rooms by the millennium and then refocus towards building the new convention hotel. 

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I know it's about twenty years too late to do this now, but what about building a new convention center next to the casino? You would have to rebuild or accommodate the existing parking garage and Greyhound station, but Eggleston to the Liberty St. ramps is about 2000 linear feet. There's already a large network of bars and restaurants nearby, and some pockets of land to support new development. The project would also make it easier to justify other game-changing infrastructure projects like expanding the subway or building a rail line along 71.

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https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2019/08/22/millennium-backs-new-replacement-hotel-plan-local-developer/2007722001/

 

"Smyjunas said Hilton would bring to Cincinnati one of its new meetings-and-events-focused, Signia brand hotels, which have a minimum of 500 rooms. The planned Signia Hilton Indianapolis, for example, will have 800 guest rooms and 80,000 square feet of meeting space with an executive roof deck, restaurant, and bar when the hotel is expected to be completed in 2023."

 

 

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I don't really like the plan of knocking down the millennium to then build a new hotel in it's place.  That would probably take 3-4 years and would cause a real shortage of hotel rooms in downtown.  

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18 minutes ago, troeros said:

Cranleys comment near the end of the article hinted that it would an expansion of the convention center and hotel. 

 

How would you be able to accomplish both? Just build the hotel on top of the convention center? 

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