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Cincinnati: Downtown: Convention Center / Hotel

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13 hours ago, RJohnson said:

To a particular age group, mid-century modern is ugly ugly. Yet these days its having quite the comeback. Maybe keep the look of the convention center for 40 years more or so. Maybe people will love the look then. They can look at it from their flying cars.

 

As advocates for urbanity and the built environment (big assumption about the people here on UO) we can either perpetuate the cycle of buildings thought to be ugly by a vocal group of people connected to the power of the bulldozer, or we could have an attitude that architecture tells a story of a time and a place and for that reason alone, respecting styles from the past is an important ethic to uphold. The opposing view to this is that society didn't really care too too much about historic architecture until the advent of the museum so why should we be active in preserving anything. The museumification of places certainly creates new conflicts that humans haven't really prioritized up until the last 400 years. This isn't my position... I'd rather live in a world that continues to build and repair over time as needed in a sort of urban wabi sabi way. 

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5 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

@savadams13 is right, I was refering to the Convention Center in my post... meant to say Elm and 5th. Whoops! Corrected.

 

Ok that makes more sense. I was wondering why 5th and Race, a “billboard” on the west side (don’t think of the Cincinnati sign as a billboard), and the old, brutalist design of the convention center were being grouped in one post! 

 

As for the convention center’s entrance at 5th and Elm, I do not think it’s very attractive but I do kind of enjoy that interior lobby space. The outside is is pretty hideous, and that dull brown color of the walls feels dated and gross. I think it’d be great if the entrance could be redone, perhaps with more glass and a little more grandeur and openness to the corner. It doesn’t have the whimsy that I associate with post modern buildings- just seems cheaply done with a tacky sign out front. 

Edited by edale

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Cleveland will host the 2021 NFL draft, Kansas City 2023.

 

I've come to the conclusion it's not a city image issue..it's that our convention situation and surrounding hotel suck. 

 

Crappy arena, crappy convention center that's small, crappy millennium hotel....how did city leaders let it get this bad.

 

For a city that's on the rise, we can't be held back on things like this. It kills our ability to bring tourists and large convention goers. This crap needs to be fixed. 

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We do have a major convention issue, but we didn't miss out on the draft because of that.  It's usually hosted in outdoor venues and we have plenty of hotels to accommodate out-of-towners.

 

1. We probably didn't have a group together lobbying the NFL for it

2. Looking at Nashville, I'm not sure we currently have a good street to hold all of those people.  If the stage was set up in front of PBS on Freedom Way, the road may be too skinny and we need the garages there capped.  The best potential spot would be a capped FWW if that ever happens, it could hold a ton of people trying to watch.

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1 minute ago, 10albersa said:

We do have a major convention issue, but we didn't miss out on the draft because of that.  It's usually hosted in outdoor venues and we have plenty of hotels to accommodate out-of-towners.

 

1. We probably didn't have a group together lobbying the NFL for it

2. Looking at Nashville, I'm not sure we currently have a good street to hold all of those people.  If the stage was set up in front of PBS on Freedom Way, the road may be too skinny and we need the garages there capped.  The best potential spot would be a capped FWW if that ever happens, it could hold a ton of people trying to watch.

Smale Park or Washington Park would be a perfect backdrop to host the draft.

 

I am surprised they cant make it happen. Is the Brown family the problem here? Otherwise, I can see it coming. Cleveland makes sense in 2021 as the 75th anniversary (err 72nd if you count the 3 years the Clowns were gone). KC has paid their dues too.

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Just comparing to Philly's draft or Nashville's, I don't think we have the raw space to accommodate that many people in a way that could allow views of the stage.  Smale is cut by the bridge and other permanent fixtures.

Washington Park wouldn't have any room to view, the stage and team desks would cover the entire grassy area.

 

It would have to be on the west end of Freedom Way, with PBS as the backdrop and the home base for NFL draft day operations and the waiting room for the top prospects waiting to get chosen. The banks has all your basic tourist accommodations to boot. The riverfront parks, the levee, and OTR will be plenty busy with spillover and the Roebling should be kept ped only for the weekend.

 

Another option may be the Newport music venue with the skyline as the backdrop and the Levee as the main tourist accommodation space, but the powers that be wont let it go to Newport.

Edited by 10albersa
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50 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

Just comparing to Philly's draft or Nashville's, I don't think we have the raw space to accommodate that many people in a way that could allow views of the stage.  Smale is cut by the bridge and other permanent fixtures.

Washington Park wouldn't have any room to view, the stage and team desks would cover the entire grassy area.

 

It would have to be on the west end of Freedom Way, with PBS as the backdrop and the home base for NFL draft day operations and the waiting room for the top prospects waiting to get chosen. The banks has all your basic tourist accommodations to boot. The riverfront parks, the levee, and OTR will be plenty busy with spillover and the Roebling should be kept ped only for the weekend.

 

Another option may be the Newport music venue with the skyline as the backdrop and the Levee as the main tourist accommodation space, but the powers that be wont let it go to Newport.

 

Philly closed the Ben Franklin Parkway for it. We're closing 2nd Street for American Ninja Warrior. 2nd Street could accommodate the draft.

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Cincinnati is never gonna get the NFL Draft and that has nothing to do with space, venue, or city momentum. It's because we have a below average team with below average ownership leading to below average market support. It would be like the MLB hosting the AllStar game in Tampa Bay. Nothing wrong with that city, but it isn't an MLB priority because the market doesn't make MLB a priority. 

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Just now, Pdrome513 said:

Cincinnati is never gonna get the NFL Draft and that has nothing to do with space, venue, or city momentum. It's because we have a below average team with below average ownership leading to below average market support. It would be like the MLB hosting the AllStar game in Tampa Bay. Nothing wrong with that city, but it isn't an MLB priority because the market doesn't make MLB a priority. 

Cincy will get the draft at some point if they express interest in it.  It just went to Nashville which has a mediocre team and fanbase and it's going to Las Vegas next year which has no fanbase.  The NFL is rotating the draft around to each teams city so it's just a matter of how bad you lobby to get it.  It will come here eventually. 

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Plans for new downtown Cincinnati hotel moving forward - https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/plans-for-new-downtown-cincinnati-hotel-moving-forwardPlans for new downtown Cincinnati hotel moving forward - https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/plans-for-new-downtown-cincinnati-hotel-moving-forward

 

New convention hotel will officially be revealed by the end of the year. City wants to fast track this, so hopefully we can see construction similar to the pace of the Kroger building and begin spring of 2020. 

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3 hours ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Another plot of nearby land becomes available for development (thank goodness). If you look on google maps this place has had tarps on various parts of it's roof for years. https://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/convention-place-property-poised-for-redevelopment

 

Thank god. Such an eyesore.

 

Now the question becomes, will 3cdc use this additional land for the new convention hotel and expand the footprint of the hotel or will it be used for a different development entirely?

 

I would definitely be supportive of some type of mixed use attraction that could cater to convention folks. 

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

Thank god. Such an eyesore.

 

Now the question becomes, will 3cdc use this additional land for the new convention hotel and expand the footprint of the hotel or will it be used for a different development entirely?

 

I would definitely be supportive of some type of mixed use attraction that could cater to convention folks. 

 

If you look at this Friday's Planning Commission packet, the city is asking to establish an air lot above the garage ramp for the adjoining garage (Item 8 ).

 

There could either be an overbuild on just that parcel keeping or demolishing the existing building or it could be an expansion of the neighboring lot. 

 

I'm ambivalent as to whether Convention Place should continue to exist. It has a weird 1970's-esque vibe that the city does not have a lot of. On the other hand, its ugly and forgettable. 


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Kansas City and Indianapolis are planning or building 800 room convention hotels in their downtown markets. KC is planning a Lowes Hyatt $310 million 20 to 22 story hotel tower and Indy is building I believe 2 hotels in one 38 story Signia Hilton tower. I really hope Cincinnati goes with the Indianapolis format on this project with the height at least. The west end of our skyline really needs something tall and special. But knowing Cincinnati they will propose I'm guessing something on the lines what KC is planning

kccch_view_from_baltimore_april_2017.jpg

Signia_Hilton_Indianapolis_600px.jpg

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6 hours ago, cin614 said:

Kansas City and Indianapolis are planning or building 800 room convention hotels in their downtown markets. KC is planning a Lowes Hyatt $310 million 20 to 22 story hotel tower and Indy is building I believe 2 hotels in one 38 story Signia Hilton tower. I really hope Cincinnati goes with the Indianapolis format on this project with the height at least. The west end of our skyline really needs something tall and special. But knowing Cincinnati they will propose I'm guessing something on the lines what KC is planning

kccch_view_from_baltimore_april_2017.jpg

Signia_Hilton_Indianapolis_600px.jpg

I think the signia hotel would look  well in our skyline and would balance it out   Nicely. The plot of land that the Kc hotel is in looks pretty large. I’m assuming that the Cincinnati lot is much smaller and would be more around the Indianapolis size.

Edited by Ucgrad2015
Typos

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If you take the footprint of the Indy hotel and then look at 4th/5th > Plum/Home footprint they are about the same size.

 

Edit: KC is bigger 250'x435' approx.

Edited by Rabbit Hash

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18 hours ago, JYP said:

 

If you look at this Friday's Planning Commission packet, the city is asking to establish an air lot above the garage ramp for the adjoining garage (Item 8 ).

 

There could either be an overbuild on just that parcel keeping or demolishing the existing building or it could be an expansion of the neighboring lot. 

 

I'm ambivalent as to whether Convention Place should continue to exist. It has a weird 1970's-esque vibe that the city does not have a lot of. On the other hand, its ugly and forgettable. 

 

The Convention Place building is actually good urbanism. Mixed use, street facing retail with sidewalk awnings. It’s definitely not the worst thing in the western half of downtown (the worst thing would be the old gym structure on the NE corner of Sixth and Elm that has an oversized skywalk across Sixth to the Millenial. And because sixth street doglegs there it feels like a tunnel and a barrier to pedestrians on Sixth.) I think Convention Place could fit well into a revitalized area if they wanted to save some millions reusing it instead of demoing. 

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Alot of this will come down to the brand flag selected for the project. I dont forsee any additional Marriott brands in the city. The two largest operators in the city did not respond to the RFP and they have a tight relationship with Marriott to put there foot down on competition in there backyard. We recently talked with Hyatt and they feel they have enough brand presence in the market. It will be Omni, Loews, Intercontinental or possibly a Hilton Signia (brand designed for convention centers).

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5 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

 

The Convention Place building is actually good urbanism. Mixed use, street facing retail with sidewalk awnings. It’s definitely not the worst thing in the western half of downtown (the worst thing would be the old gym structure on the NE corner of Sixth and Elm that has an oversized skywalk across Sixth to the Millenial. And because sixth street doglegs there it feels like a tunnel and a barrier to pedestrians on Sixth.) I think Convention Place could fit well into a revitalized area if they wanted to save some millions reusing it instead of demoing. 

 

 

True, my initial impression of it was based entirely on the lack of maintenance. Things like the water leaks, rust and falling soffits can be fixed as long as the current owner is out of the picture.  

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37 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

 

The Convention Place building is actually good urbanism. Mixed use, street facing retail with sidewalk awnings. It’s definitely not the worst thing in the western half of downtown (the worst thing would be the old gym structure on the NE corner of Sixth and Elm that has an oversized skywalk across Sixth to the Millenial. And because sixth street doglegs there it feels like a tunnel and a barrier to pedestrians on Sixth.) I think Convention Place could fit well into a revitalized area if they wanted to save some millions reusing it instead of demoing. 

 

It's wayyy undersized for a prominent location in the CBD. Definitely not even approaching the highest and best use of the land. 

 

I think it should be demolished, and the site should be included in with the parking lot slated for the convention center hotel. That would give some more frontage to the hotel, and could potentially screen the ugly garage from public view on 5th. 

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City to sell Convention Place building for redevelopment

By Mitchell Parton  – Intern, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jun 7, 2019, 2:23pm EDT

 

 

The Cincinnati Planning Commission voted unanimously Friday morning to sell a 95,000-square-foot building at Elm and Fifth streets next to the Duke Energy Convention Center. 

The Hamilton County Land Reutilization Corporation will remediate and redevelop the eight-story building at 435 Elm St., also known as the Convention Place building. It will then transfer the property to the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority. 

 

MORE

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Hamilton County, city resolve hotel tax dispute

 

diversitydukeenergycenter*600xx500-333-0

 

Hamilton County officials confirmed that a deal has been reached with the city of Cincinnati to amend their convention center cooperative agreement, WVXU reports.

 

Hamilton County commissioners approved the agreement Thursday. Cincinnati City Council is next in line to vote on a change to the transient occupancy tax. Commissioners and City Council need to approve a plan allowing the city to use money from the hotel/motel tax to meet the financial obligations it made to the FC Cincinnati stadium project.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/07/hamilton-county-city-resolve-hotel-tax-dispute.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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3CDC pauses plan to find developer for new convention center hotel

 

A plan to find a developer to build a new headquarters hotel south of the Duke Energy Convention Center has been put on hold while Hamilton County works with a local developer to redevelop the Millennium Hotel, downtown’s current convention center hotel.

 

“(We) understand that the county is pursuing an acquisition of the Millennium Hotel with a local developer,” said Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. CEO Steve Leeper, whose organization was leading the search. “As this is a significant event that would ultimately affect our ability to issue and complete a successful RFP, we have decided to pause our activity until there is additional clarity on the project.”

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1 minute ago, taestell said:

3CDC pauses plan to find developer for new convention center hotel

 

A plan to find a developer to build a new headquarters hotel south of the Duke Energy Convention Center has been put on hold while Hamilton County works with a local developer to redevelop the Millennium Hotel, downtown’s current convention center hotel.

 

“(We) understand that the county is pursuing an acquisition of the Millennium Hotel with a local developer,” said Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. CEO Steve Leeper, whose organization was leading the search. “As this is a significant event that would ultimately affect our ability to issue and complete a successful RFP, we have decided to pause our activity until there is additional clarity on the project.”

 

I know from a couple sources this came out of nowhere on the county and a developer trying to purchase the Millennium. There was alot of momentum from April til now and then this just sort of hit the brakes on the new hotel. In my opinion, we need a new hotel that has larger room, higher ceilings, bigger bathrooms. More up to date with the expected standards of todays travelers. The millennium is a much older property limited by what they can do even for a major renovation. 

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So what will become of the empty lots across the convention center?

 

Would this mean that the millennium property gets redeveloped and the surround lot becomes some sort of mixed use development?

 

I really hope 3cdc has something planned, that entire stretch of ugly parking garages and empty parking lot craters is such an eyesore for first time visitors to witness.

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I assume this would not actually derail plans for the lot, but part of the pitch 3CDC made to hotel operators likely included “and BTW look how shitty your competition is over here.” Well, if it turns out the competition *isn’t* that shitty, that would be something the operators would want to know. Likewise if the Millennium is up for a conversion into residential. I read this as 3CDC just wanting to make sure the RFP is completely fair so there’s no delay on the back end of it. 

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This doesn't necessarily mean that a new hotel or something else won't be built on the vacant lot south of the convention center at some point. Just that 3CDC is going to step back and not get in Hamilton County's way while they pursue a rehab of the Millennium. It's not a bad thing IMO.

 

It's not like the Millennium was going to be imploded after the new 3CDC hotel opens. Millennium would just sit there deteriorating and declining into a "budget" hotel. They might as well rehab it now and make it semi-nice. After the convention center expansion, there may be demand for an upper tier hotel (Conrad/JW Marriott/Park Hyatt) in the vacant lot.

 

<why_not_both.gif>

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23 minutes ago, taestell said:

This doesn't necessarily mean that a new hotel or something else won't be built on the vacant lot south of the convention center at some point. Just that 3CDC is going to step back and not get in Hamilton County's way while they pursue a rehab of the Millennium. It's not a bad thing IMO.

 

It's not like the Millennium was going to be imploded after the new 3CDC hotel opens. Millennium would just sit there deteriorating and declining into a "budget" hotel. They might as well rehab it now and make it semi-nice. After the convention center expansion, there may be demand for an upper tier hotel (Conrad/JW Marriott/Park Hyatt) in the vacant lot.

 

<why_not_both.gif>

I would assume that whatever happens, 3CDC will still pursue some hotel on that parcel, the study that was done did say that the city could handle over 600 new rooms.  

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Why did the County not coordinate with the City and 3CDC before they issued an RFP? Given the reputation Cincinnati has with out of town developers, a stunt like this- calling off an RFP after a much publicized release- just reinforces the idea that Cincinnati is a poor place to build projects. 

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2 hours ago, edale said:

Why did the County not coordinate with the City and 3CDC before they issued an RFP? Given the reputation Cincinnati has with out of town developers, a stunt like this- calling off an RFP after a much publicized release- just reinforces the idea that Cincinnati is a poor place to build projects. 

 

Same reason why it took one attorney, Mr. Gableman to get communication and meetings going between all parties to make The Banks a reality. The local powers that be, never communicate with each other until its too late or when the golden opportunity has passed. 

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18 minutes ago, taestell said:

Oh, this is interesting: Potential developer of Millennium Hotel identified

 

This is a paywalled article, so I don't want to give too much away, but this sentence is important:

 

The existing hotel will be demolished as a part of any redevelopment plan.

So...why dont they say that in the headline? It seemed like it was going to be renovated, but this will be huge

Edited by seaswan

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Probably because at this time, nothing has been officially announced. All we knew this morning is that 3CDC put their plans for a new hotel on hold, and then several readers contacted the Business Courier to anonymously share details about the Millennium project so they published a second article with that information. But Business Courier (probably) hasn't seen renderings yet and doesn't have any detailed information about the project.

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I am a bit torn on this. 1) If they tear it down, there is a big hole in hotel rooms in the area for 2+ years until the new one is built and could hurt traffic during that time , whereas a new facility opening would not cause any interference with convention traffic.

2) The footprint seems small for a convention level hotel by today's standards and would they be able to support the convention center with additional meeting space in this footprint

 

On the flip side, if they don't build on the new lot, it gives a perfect spot for future convention center expansion in the coming years

but, is that really a great spot for convention center expansion (it would kill off anything west of that block from a street level standpoint (which makes a hotel a much better development for that spot)

 

Personally, I was all for building a new hotel in the lot, leaving the Millennium as a low price option in the city, and having a good 5* option on the west side of downtown. Also, giving people a reason to travel to that part of downtown beyond the residents who live there. and spurring development on that lot.

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Tearing it down lets them expand the convention center across Elm St.  A city employee told me about five years ago that they had already explored the idea's feasibility and done preliminary design.  

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28 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Tearing it down lets them expand the convention center across Elm St.  A city employee told me about five years ago that they had already explored the idea's feasibility and done preliminary design.  

 

Seems more likely they will go through with this terrible plan now. 


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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