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Cincinnati: Clifton: Development and News

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I didn't realize the CCAC was moving into this development.  That will bring a whole lot of activity to this building.

 

Discussions are ongoing. That part of the plan is still up in the air.

 

CCAC reported out at the last CTM meeting that they are also looking at a potential Burnett Woods location as well. CCAC plans to have their decision on their move by the end of summer.

 

This is clearly an important project for the Ludlow Avenue Business District and an institution like the CCAC would be a fantastic addition to it.

 

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At this point, I'm not sure if anyone knows except for the parks department and CCAC. At the meeting, there was an announcement of a new Burnett Woods visioning session scheduled for the next few weeks (I will post update when i find my notes from the meeting). Leslie Mooney (CCAC Director) made it seem like there may be an announcement or discussion on this topic at that meeting.

 

She said all options that they are looking at for their relocation are new builds, so they will be utilizing space throughout the uptown community for their classes and programs while they are without a permanent home starting in August, when CPS takes over control of the building.

 

I for one would love to see a plan to revitalize the area around the lake/picnic area/trailside nature center. I would not be opposed to see that include a 25-30k sq. ft. building for the CCAC. Though my number 1 choice would be as a part of the Howell development.

 

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^That is great to hear. Burnet Woods has a ton of potential, so I'm glad that there is talk about bringing more activity to the park. The proposed space in the Howell development seems flexible enough that it could be used for a number of types of uses, so I don't think it would hurt the Howell project badly if the CCAC decided it made more sense for them to go to Burnet Woods.

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I would think CCAC would be a great anchor on Ludlow. Maybe throw a satellite classroom in Burnet Woods or something but Ludlow would be much better.

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I would think CCAC would be a great anchor on Ludlow. Maybe throw a satellite classroom in Burnet Woods or something but Ludlow would be much better.

 

Even more Beatles cover bands for the plaza.  Competition for that flute guy in front of Graeter's. 

 

 

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I would think CCAC would be a great anchor on Ludlow. Maybe throw a satellite classroom in Burnet Woods or something but Ludlow would be much better.

 

Even more Beatles cover bands for the plaza.  Competition for that flute guy in front of Graeter's.

 

He is my favorite of all the buskers in the city. I hope any new development in the neighborhood remembers to include him!

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"One plan, from the Clifton Cultural Arts Center, would place a 25,000 square-foot arts center in the park. The other, from the Camping and Education Foundation, would mean a smaller building occupying a few thousand square feet and renovations to other park facilities."

 

https://www.citybeat.com/news/blog/21006475/ccac-facility-nature-education-center-outlined-as-possible-additions-to-cincinnatis-burnet-woods

 

I think the CCAC could definitely activate part of the fairly large park. Not sure what to think of the camping and Education Foundation, as I have never heard of them and not sure what their programming might entail - I did hear that the renovation of the nature center, refreshment stand, and lake area are within the plan currently, just not sure on the details of that.

 

There will be much blowback if they try and disturb some of the more untouched areas of the park. I would agree that one of the positives for the park is that there are still areas that feel "natural" and you forget you are in the city for a moment. I would hope any plan encourages that and doesn't remove that contrast. 

 

It sounds like there will be a decision by the park board, possibly at late june meeting.

 

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I did hear that the renovation of the nature center, refreshment stand, and lake area are within the plan currently, just not sure on the details of that.

 

I would so love it if all the parks with refreshment stands were able to reopen them. I remember asking my dad about them when we'd visit parks as a kid. It might have been my first understanding that Cincinnati had a brighter past.

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I did hear that the renovation of the nature center, refreshment stand, and lake area are within the plan currently, just not sure on the details of that.

 

I would so love it if all the parks with refreshment stands were able to reopen them. I remember asking my dad about them when we'd visit parks as a kid. It might have been my first understanding that Cincinnati had a brighter past.

 

Burnet Woods is made to intentionally underperform to keep the kids from Avondale out.  I rented the shelter in Burnet Woods last year and it was unbelievably expensive and could only be paid with a cashier's check.  That's designed to keep black family reunions out of Burnet Woods. 

 

 

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That's strange because I used to do some part time work at Lunken/Playfield Lane for the CRC and used to process the orders for the tennis center and the playfield and also the rentals of gazebos/shelters.  The shelters were almost always just paid for by check or by credit card, I don't think I ever saw a cashier's check, maybe a couple over two years.

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Also, the only bathrooms in Burnet are in the base of the bandstand.  Any event at that shelter is 1. startlingly expensive (I now recall that I had to get a "special event" permit) and 2. guests must walk through the woods and up several dozen steps to get to the bathroom.  Also, that shelter itself is not ADA accessible...there is a staircase (the one with the concrete slide) or a VERY steep drive that old people can't walk up or down.  Also, no electricity on site to discourage loud music.  It all adds up to a very obvious effort to keep events out of Burnett Woods.   

 

I attached a photo of the shelter.  You can see the concrete slide to the right. 

burnet-1.jpg.647cd450be621fa3d7fa16cfe5340c5a.jpg

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update from enquirer: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/05/24/burnet-woods-lease-clifton-cultural-arts-center-urban-wilderness-center/637665002/

 

"

More about each proposal...

 

Camping and Education Foundation

 

Want: 2,500 square foot Urban Wilderness Center for urban youth programming

Cost: $625,0000, paid for and built by the nonprofit

Offering: To restore the Trailside Nature Center, which is underutilized in the park and needs maintenance work. Help clean up the park and bring added security.

 

Details: This organization, which was formed 50 years ago, operates camps in the Northwoods of Minnesota on the Canadian border. But more recently it has become interested in expanding its reach and be more accessible to urban youth. The proposed Urban Wilderness Center would welcome Cincinnati youth, and youth from other cities, to spend time in nature and learn the lessons it can teach, like leadership, teamwork and confidence.  The foundation is partnering with UC to create a minor in experiential leadership in the outdoors. Students in the program would help run the program there. CEF wants to build south of Burnet Lake.

 

 

Clifton Cultural Arts Center

 

Want: 25,000-30,000 square foot facility with a performance space, galleries and meeting spaces for the community

Cost: $6.5 million to $9.2 million

 

Offering: The creation of a center for Uptown neighborhoods, where they can gather around arts, culture and diversity. Improvements of play and picnic space in the parks.

Details: This regional arts center has been operating out of historic Clifton School for the last 15 years but Cincinnati Public Schools recently decided to turn it into an elementary school, so the group is looking for a new home. The center has been open six days a week, offering all sorts of classes, yoga and summer camps, art exhibitions and more. CCAC wants to build a performance space for plays and speakers. Classrooms for dance, visual art, wellness, music, writing classes. It would utilize indoor and outdoor spaces and wants to build north of the Trailside Nature Center."

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^Jake, as per the enquirer information, it looks like this would be the area that the CCAC would like to develop. They specifically call out improving the picnic areas, though I would doubt it would decrease costs, but we shall see.

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Also, the only bathrooms in Burnet are in the base of the bandstand.

There are also restrooms in the Nature Center and at the picnic area down by Clifton Ave.

http://www.cincinnatiparks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Burnet-Map-11x17.pdf

 

They're not open when the nature center isn't open.  Which means there are no nearby restrooms on the weekends. 

 

It came back to me...renting this shelter requires a "special event" permit, as does the Bellevue Park shelter.  They told me that they do open the bathrooms at Bellevue during your "special event", but renting that shelter is also very expensive, around $100/hr.  So renting one of these shelters for the entire day costs upwards of $1,000. 

 

 

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Does the CCAC have the financial ability to build such an expensive ($6.5 - $9.2 million) facility?

 

From what I can tell, it will be a stretch but a doable goal for them.

 

They will be receiving nearly $2 million from CPS on the improvements they made to the school building.

 

They have a great reputation in the community and have put together a great "advisory council" for their move that has some pretty big hitters on it. https://www.cliftonculturalarts.org/about/advisory-council/

 

Seems to me that they can be successful at raising funds. This will be a transformational project whether in Burnet Woods or in the new Howell Development and people will want to support it.

 

 

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Nonprofit arts group eyes Burnet Woods for new home

 

potentialccacsites*750xx1033-582-0-84.png

 

The Clifton Cultural Arts Center is looking to build a new home, and it is focused for now on Burnet Woods, a Cincinnati park that sometimes has been at the center of controversy when it comes to plans to make changes to it.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/18/nonprofit-arts-group-eyes-burnet-woods-for-new.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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^The big, flat, empty space at the corner of MLK/Clifton makes sense to build on. Aside from the occasional trapeze school (which could go any number of other places), that space is completely underutilized. As "park" space, it has little recreational or environmental value due to being right next to the busy streets and simply being mowed grass. For parking, to avoid an excessively large surface lot, they should make the most of 35' wide Brookline, possibly adding angled parking spots.

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^ I find that orientation much more confusing for some reason.

Did you go to Miami University? All of their campus maps show North to the right and I have a pet theory that it has skewed all of their students away from the typical North-is-up mindset.

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^ I find that orientation much more confusing for some reason.

Did you go to Miami University? All of their campus maps show North to the right and I have a pet theory that it has skewed all of their students away from the typical North-is-up mindset.

 

No I did not. The first orientation of the map just aligns more with my mental map of the park. Probably because I’ve always lived east of 71, and my approach to Clifton and Burnet Woods usually was from the east. Plus, the Ludlow side of the park is the “front” of the park, so having it at the “back” in the north pointing map is disorienting for me.

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^Yeah, the whole problem with the park has been the way in which Ludlow was the historic entrance, Clifton Ave. has always been a bit of an afterthought, and then MLK is just a mess.  It is not inviting, really, from any direction.  The staircase entrance from Bishop near Nixon looks like a good place to go if you want to get mugged. 

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I would like to see them tastefully build around the fountain at Clifton & Ludlow. IMO, that corner could use something more to activate it. Since it's an arts center, they could make the fountain plaza in front of their building something of a canvas for artwork. Make a story-high tunnel through the building to connect to the path into the park; make the arts center a gateway.

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A rooftop bar/restaurant is a great idea there but I wonder if there will be pushback from the neighborhood over noise concerns. I mean, even Quan Hapa's proposed rooftop bar in OTR got cancelled due to noise concerns.

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A rooftop bar/restaurant is a great idea there but I wonder if there will be pushback from the neighborhood over noise concerns. I mean, even Quan Hapa's proposed rooftop bar in OTR got cancelled due to noise concerns.

 

The project has already been cleared through zoning and has received a full building permit, not just building shell.  The new roof was a result of push back from the zoning department regarding a new guardrail for the roof deck that would be visible from the street.  Instead, the owner chose to lower the entire roof and use the existing parapet as the guard rail.

 

Another fun fact: the project is slated to include nana-wall style accordion windows at its storefront.

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The Clifton Market closed unexpectedly tonight at 7pm.  A worker closing the doors blurted out "the store isn't doing well". 

 

Hopefully this isn't a permanent change to a 7pm closing time. 

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I wouldn't be surprised if students are having nearly every single meal consumed at home delivered. So they're just keeping basic snacks around and that's it. Mall food courts used to have a base level of traffic just from the fact that hundreds of people are working in the malls at any given time but even that's gone because of food delivery.

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Yeah I'd bet that many people are graduating from UC without having heard of the Clifton Market or having set foot on the Ludlow strip.  And the old Cliftonites coudln't be happier with that arrangement. 

 

When you work in food delivery, the number of people who order food who are on the same block as the restaurant is always shocking.  They're just in their apartment getting high and playing video games, all funded by mommy & daddy.  Like, you literally walk the food to them.  Then these bums end up getting better jobs then you. 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

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