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Cincinnati: Downtown: The Banks

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1 minute ago, taestell said:

So if we build the MEMI music venue at The Banks, the city will lose 105 jobs and $150,000/year in income taxes. Is it still worth it?

 

I mean city council were the ones who decided to put up fight because cranely got cranky that his favorite promoter wasnt picked. 

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11 minutes ago, taestell said:

So if we build the MEMI music venue at The Banks, the city will lose 105 jobs and $150,000/year in income taxes. Is it still worth it?

 

Thats if the Bengals don’t come to thier senses. They are the ones with the weakest/most absurd starting axiom in all this, that they need the stadium to be surrounded by surface lots for tailgating. This idea should be attacked and they should be shamed & embarrassed for their unreasonable demand. All they have to do is say “yes” to the venue

Edited by thebillshark

www.cincinnatiideas.com

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6 minutes ago, troeros said:

I mean city council were the ones who decided to put up fight because cranely got cranky that his favorite promoter wasnt picked. 

 

That's not really what happened. Both PromoWest (Cranley's preferred operator, and the one that should have been chosen) and MEMI (the one City Council selected) wanted to build their music venue at the same location. So in either case, we would be having the exact same fight about Bengals tailgating. Both Cranley and a supermajority of City Council are opposed to Hilltop moving to Queensgate or Lower Price Hill, so the county feels they are left with no choice but to move them out of the city.

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3 hours ago, thebillshark said:

All they have to do is say “yes” to the venue

 

Maybe we should ask Charlie Winburn to speak with them.

 

 

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6 hours ago, taestell said:

So if we build the MEMI music venue at The Banks, the city will lose 105 jobs and $150,000/year in income taxes. Is it still worth it?

Yes. Saying we lose jobs is a bit overstated. The jobs stay in the region and ate available to city residents. It's different than say moving to Cleveland.

 

The lost income taxes are minor in the grand scheme of things and worth it for a music venue plus moving an industrial facility off such prime location

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11 hours ago, Jakelley said:

I wonder if this piece of land could be a viable alternative for Hilltop? It's in an industrial area not too far from downtown (but is still in the city). It seems like they would be close enough to figure out a way to access the river. Not sure if rail access would matter but that would be there too. I think this is currently empty. If I recall from an article I read at some point, Peter Cremer was considering this land for future expansion.

 

If the rhetoric used in the council meeting on Wednesday is any indication, they'll use the same excuse of not wanting to dump another bad development on the west-side (I'm not sure what other bad development they could possibly be talking about).  Since when is Queensgate the "west-side?"  It hasn't had housing in it since the rail yard and 75 demolished Kenyon Barr.  This motion to not swap land was a really weird flex, seems like they just played themselves.

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1 hour ago, 10albersa said:

 

If the rhetoric used in the council meeting on Wednesday is any indication, they'll use the same excuse of not wanting to dump another bad development on the west-side (I'm not sure what other bad development they could possibly be talking about).  Since when is Queensgate the "west-side?"  It hasn't had housing in it since the rail yard and 75 demolished Kenyon Barr.  This motion to not swap land was a really weird flex, seems like they just played themselves.

 

Yes, while I thought the musical chair land swaps were complicated and ridiculous, the histrionic rhetoric about the West Side was annoying. It looked like the proposal was to put an industrial use in an industrial area to me. 


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19 hours ago, Jakelley said:

image.thumb.png.875e446464da75e4afb761d3e8a27f64.png

 

I wonder if this piece of land could be a viable alternative for Hilltop? It's in an industrial area not too far from downtown (but is still in the city). It seems like they would be close enough to figure out a way to access the river. Not sure if rail access would matter but that would be there too. I think this is currently empty. If I recall from an article I read at some point, Peter Cremer was considering this land for future expansion.

 

This property has already been developed by Neyer Properties.

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1 hour ago, thesenator said:

 

This property has already been developed by Neyer Properties.

 

Since when?  Yeah there's two new buildings which you can see off to the right, but that's only about 1/4 of the total buildable area.  

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53 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

 

Since when?  Yeah there's two new buildings which you can see off to the right, but that's only about 1/4 of the total buildable area.  

 

 

There is a giant new spec warehouse that takes up the right 1/3 of that circled are now. Just built over this last year or so.

 

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On 10/3/2019 at 1:40 PM, RJohnson said:

the music venue, Hilltop, soccer stadium, new coliseum: trending attitude all for things Cincinnati, move it to KY.

 

What? The soccer stadium is going in Cincinnati and always had a better shot of landing in the city limits anyways (even though Newport was an excellent location). 

 

Hilltop is not considering locations in KY.


The "coliseum" has had no serious discussions about "moving" to NKY, in fact, the only discussions they've had have been their brief moment of asking for a handout to renovate or rebuild on the existing site (and until they have a real primary tenant or offer up substantial amounts of their owner's own money, that privately owned facility will continue to sit and languish). 

And even if a new arena went to Northern Kentucky.... who cares? It's the same argument with the soccer stadium. It'd still be in a fantastic location and crossing the river border only seems to be a problem for those who still lament the banishment of Pete Rose.

Edited by Gordon Bombay

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Very frustrating that they are pushing so hard for this music venue when phase 3A sits there, ready for development, and nothing.  The proposal from the developers for more apartments seemed pretty spot on.  It is annoying we haven't heard anything on whether that proposal was outright rejected, or if they are waiting for something else.  Also, in addition to the music venue in Newport, the Casino is now also going to be adding a music venue on their second floor where they currently have a ballroom.  Feels like they are moving heaven and earth for a music venue that will likely be redundant when it is finally built.

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13 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

This Columbusite finds it strange that Hilltop is in The Bottoms

 

They have a large aggregate mine, in Kentucky up river. They excavate, load up barges and bring down to a couple of there plants. One being the downtown location, where the aggregate is pulled off the barges and then used for a number of different uses. The Steele family has been moved around multiple times along the river over the decades.  

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16 minutes ago, JoeHarmon said:

  Feels like they are moving heaven and earth for a music venue that will likely be redundant when it is finally built.

 

Nail on the head. 

And in the end—Poison, Motley Crue, and Def Leppard will still just continue to play out the remainder of their careers at PNC Pavillion or the Taste of Blue Ash. 

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1 hour ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

Nail on the head. 

And in the end—Poison, Motley Crue, and Def Leppard will still just continue to play out the remainder of their careers at PNC Pavillion or the Taste of Blue Ash. 

 

No, it's going to be very small and won't compete with either thing at Riverbend or the one under construction across the street in Newport.  A 1,500-seat facility does not compete with a 3,000-seat facility.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, JoeHarmon said:

Very frustrating that they are pushing so hard for this music venue when phase 3A sits there, ready for development, and nothing.  The proposal from the developers for more apartments seemed pretty spot on.  It is annoying we haven't heard anything on whether that proposal was outright rejected, or if they are waiting for something else.  Also, in addition to the music venue in Newport, the Casino is now also going to be adding a music venue on their second floor where they currently have a ballroom.  Feels like they are moving heaven and earth for a music venue that will likely be redundant when it is finally built.


 

I support the music venue at the banks, I’m happy it’s now being built and I think it will do just fine regardless of the Newport venue. Hard Rock Live is going to be small concerts maybe even some smaller size boxing matches and such plus it’s still going to be used as the casino’s private event space. BUT to be honest more than anything I’m just happy this thing is over! The Drama over what is actually a small project has given me a headache.

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4 minutes ago, Traveler Joe said:

Either way this opens up trail extension along the river to the westside.  Often ended up turning back before hilltop due to the massive dust cloud hanging around there.

 

They are just acquiring the area east of Clay Wade Bailey Bridge. Not the whole area along the river. So you will still be riding through dust cloud unfortunately. 

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County announces purchase price in Hilltop deal

 

hilltopcurrent*750xx1995-1122-1-0.jpg

 

Hamilton County will pay $29.75 million to acquire Hilltop Companies’ land and relocate it to an unknown site, according to an agreement passed unanimously on Tuesday by Hamilton County commissioners.

 

The deal should pave the way for the development of a music venue on Lot 27 of the Banks and an adjacent extension of Smale Riverfront Park and potentially end a lengthy battle between the city and the county over the immediate future of the riverfront.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/10/08/county-announces-purchase-price-in-hilltop-deal.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

What? The soccer stadium is going in Cincinnati and always had a better shot of landing in the city limits anyways (even though Newport was an excellent location). 

And even if a new arena went to Northern Kentucky.... who cares? It's the same argument with the soccer stadium. It'd still be in a fantastic location and crossing the river border only seems to be a problem for those who still lament the banishment of Pete Rose.

Thanks for all this info. My comment was directed toward people who want to fight over every nook and cranny on every project that comes down the river. And, I wasn't talking about Newport. I was talking about the IRS site as a location that could accommodate the combination of Convention Center, casino, convention hotel and why not through in a new arena and music venue. We would then have the best of all worlds no d*ckering about traffic, noise, foot traffic, parking, removal of streets, and views from the high-risers, historic buildings, and the list goes on. All these venues in the same place with a view of the skyline. Covington would reap all the benefits, but that would solve many of the issues. I wonder if Mr. Lindner, County Commissioners, our representatives, the Castellani's and other heavy investors would sign off on this. 

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25 minutes ago, RJohnson said:

Thanks for all this info. My comment was directed toward people who want to fight over every nook and cranny on every project that comes down the river. And, I wasn't talking about Newport. I was talking about the IRS site as a location that could accommodate the combination of Convention Center, casino, convention hotel and why not through in a new arena and music venue. We would then have the best of all worlds no d*ckering about traffic, noise, foot traffic, parking, removal of streets, and views from the high-risers, historic buildings, and the list goes on. All these venues in the same place with a view of the skyline. Covington would reap all the benefits, but that would solve many of the issues. I wonder if Mr. Lindner, County Commissioners, our representatives, the Castellani's and other heavy investors would sign off on this. 

Ovation has been empty for a decade. Any of those things (aside from perhaps a convention center expansion) could have gone there in that time. The fact they didn't probably means something. 

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5 minutes ago, snakebite said:

Will the music venue have any retail space or the like?

 

I know it will have a mini extension of the smale park...so some trees, landscaped gardens etc. 

 

Overall I think this is a win. Obviously this won't compete with the Ovation Music Venue and will be its own little thing. I'm not sure what acts they are aiming for, but I'm sure it will still increase foot traffic year round during this music events that are booked. 

 

I'm not necessarily sure if this will truly help the retail tenants/bars and restaurants at the banks but i do think it will help a little bit to some extent at least. 

 

At the very least I'm tried of River bend being the main go to music venue for Cincinnatians. It's so outdated and dingy at this point so I'm glad there is a new venue that is at a very nice location on the river. 

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I don't believe "d*ckering is a word (at least its meaning) that needs to be disguised or hidden. So, I looked it up. 

 

d*ckering (present participle)

engage in petty argument or bargaining.

"she advised him not to d*cker over the extra fee"

synonyms:

haggle · barter · negotiate · discuss terms · hold talks · deal ·

[more]

treat something casually or irresponsibly; toy with something.

"there was no d*ckering with the lyrics"

 

nope, nothing to do with anatomy.

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43 minutes ago, RJohnson said:

Thanks for all this info. My comment was directed toward people who want to fight over every nook and cranny on every project that comes down the river. And, I wasn't talking about Newport. I was talking about the IRS site as a location that could accommodate the combination of Convention Center, casino, convention hotel and why not through in a new arena and music venue. We would then have the best of all worlds no d*ckering about traffic, noise, foot traffic, parking, removal of streets, and views from the high-risers, historic buildings, and the list goes on. All these venues in the same place with a view of the skyline. Covington would reap all the benefits, but that would solve many of the issues. I wonder if Mr. Lindner, County Commissioners, our representatives, the Castellani's and other heavy investors would sign off on this. 

 

Even though northern KY is closer to downtown cincinnati than most people who live in cincy (like oakley, Hyde park, etc), there will always be division. Northern Kentucky will never consider themselves cincinnatians and vice versa.

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1 hour ago, thomasbw said:

Ovation has been empty for a decade. Any of those things (aside from perhaps a convention center expansion) could have gone there in that time. The fact they didn't probably means something. 

 

Access to the Ovation site is terrible.  Back in 1970 OKI did preliminary work on a DC Metro-scale rapid transit network.  That included a subway tunnel under the Ohio River to the Covington Riverfront, then a turn east under the Licking River to a terminal station at...Ovation.  

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1 hour ago, RJohnson said:

I don't believe "d*ckering is a word (at least its meaning) that needs to be disguised or hidden. So, I looked it up. 

 

d*ckering (present participle)

engage in petty argument or bargaining.

"she advised him not to d*cker over the extra fee"

synonyms:

haggle · barter · negotiate · discuss terms · hold talks · deal ·

[more]

treat something casually or irresponsibly; toy with something.

"there was no d*ckering with the lyrics"

 

nope, nothing to do with anatomy.

 

We apologize, the profanity filter can be a little aggressive sometimes.

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This could certainly over take the PNC pavilion, but the main stage at RiverBend can support 20,000 people with the lawn.  This proposed venue for the banks is what 9,000 with lawn included.  River Bend will still be the main venue for more popular bands.

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16 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Access to the Ovation site is terrible.  Back in 1970 OKI did preliminary work on a DC Metro-scale rapid transit network.  That included a subway tunnel under the Ohio River to the Covington Riverfront, then a turn east under the Licking River to a terminal station at...Ovation.  


Is this report online anywhere? Would love to read that. 

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1 hour ago, Gordon Bombay said:


Is this report online anywhere? Would love to read that. 

based on a cursory search, there's copies available at the downtown library. 

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20 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Even though northern KY is closer to downtown cincinnati than most people who live in cincy (like oakley, Hyde park, etc), there will always be division. Northern Kentucky will never consider themselves cincinnatians and vice versa.

 

Yes, you get to live closer to the CBD and mre cheaply but have to have McConnell represent you in Washington.

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1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Yes, you get to live closer to the CBD and mre cheaply but have to have McConnell represent you in Washington.

 

And Thomas Massie. 

 

Plus, you pay a higher state income tax. Aren't Republicans supposed to be about lower taxes? 

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