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Thank God Laure is gone.

I think you're looking at the wrong deity. If God had been involved, Smithermn, Winburn & Sittenfeld would be gone.

Electing the Prince of Lies mayor seriously indicates other forces at work.

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^Your plan is pretty sound for self-financing, and more actionable that there are 4 year terms:  $150,000 in net profits, live on the $50,000 and save the $100,000 each year for a race every four.

 

So PG are you going to change your stance on the streetcar? and keep your promise of going with the will of the people? inquiring minds would like to know

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^The problem with my plan is that it takes almost an entire career on middle-class income to get to the point where you can have $100,000 in annual residual income.  So if I were to run on my own plan, the earliest I could do it is when I'm 60 or 65. 

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Thank God Laure is gone.

I think you're looking at the wrong deity. If God had been involved, Smithermn, Winburn & Sittenfeld would be gone.

Electing the Prince of Lies mayor seriously indicates other forces at work.

 

Nope, Laure was a joke and the worst member of council. It is good she is gone, my dog would do a better job than her on council

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A word of advice to everyone, let's not feed trolls. Combative, insulting language is not going to sway minds and you won't sway those peoples' minds.

 

It will be interesting to see if PG takes a slightly more progressive stance on issues now that there is increased pressure on him to do so. Also, since he likes to fight against the tide of most of council, he might naturally move in that direction.

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Thank God Laure is gone.

I think you're looking at the wrong deity. If God had been involved, Smithermn, Winburn & Sittenfeld would be gone.

Electing the Prince of Lies mayor seriously indicates other forces at work.

 

Nope, Laure was a joke and the worst member of council. It is good she is gone, my dog would do a better job than her on council

 

Worse than Smitherman? Pam Thomas? Hardly.

 

Sounds like you have a personal issue with Quinlivan.

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I really know nothing about Pam Thomas to make an opinion on her, she has only be there such a short time. While I disagree with Smitherman in many cases, he at least presents an argument from a financial perspective with numbers and figures. While I tend to disagree with his figures, at least I can see his logic and where it is coming from, you can at least debate that.

 

My problem with Laure is that she just seems like a flake to me, based on the interviews she has given. She is not someone I trust with my tax dollars. Everything is about art and beautification of the city, paint more murals, etc. While I agree with her on these issues, there are more important priorities that need to be taken care of before you can get to the "would nice to have" part of the list. She cannot quantify the return on any of her initiatives. For example, use Seelbach and the bathroom issue. He had a quantifiable number that he was able to project to the voters, whether you agree with him or not, he at least had facts to stand behind. Simpson is able to do the same thing (whether or not you agree with her numbers, she has them) Laure, cannot project these figures. If I am going to trust her with my tax dollars I want to hear something besides, "because it will look pretty, and it makes people feel good"

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I don't trust anyone who trusts Smitherman with anything. Yvette Simpson was on WLW the other day, and said that he put one motion in council. ONE MOTION! And it was for ethics training for city staff. He doesn't believe in anything and votes NO on just about anything. He doesn't show up to council debates, and abuses his power in other positions to gain popularity from the lowest information voters. Also, Pam Thomas has done pretty much nothing on council.

 

I remember Laure trying to get 1% of casino tax revenue to start a public art fund. Have you ever seen Laure Quinlivan talk during the budget discussions? She has so many numbers and figures about how much spending the city has cut from other departments, and yet police/fire budgets remain at the same level, untouched.

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While I agree with her on these issues, there are more important priorities that need to be taken care of before you can get to the "would nice to have" part of the list.

 

Like, say, right-sizing public safety spending? She is the only councilmember advocating for this, and it's the only logical way to get the city's financial house in order. This more than makes up for any flakiness.

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I can tell you from first-hand experience of seeing numerous city council candidates traipse through my workplace giving presentations--Laure had BY FAR the most detail regarding the financial condition of the city and what needed to be done.  I am sure that in her talk she went through more figures than every other candidate we saw combined. 

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While I agree with her on these issues, there are more important priorities that need to be taken care of before you can get to the "would nice to have" part of the list.

 

Like, say, right-sizing public safety spending? She is the only councilmember advocating for this, and it's the only logical way to get the city's financial house in order. This more than makes up for any flakiness.

 

This is why I supported Quinlivan.  She was the only one brave enough to fight this issue.  And it probably ultimately led to her not winning re-election this week.

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Brutus, you are not familiar enough with Laure Quinlivan to understand what her political strategy was.  Her "flakiness" was an act as much as is Sittenfeld's.  She was not reelected because she didn't raise enough money. 

 

Her greatest moment was the time when she left Bill Cunningham speechless.  She came right at him and said that she knew he was secretly a streetcar supporter and the airwaves of 700 went silent for a solid 3 seconds.  He was stunned that he called her out on it.  I've been listening to Bill Cunningham since about 1989 and it's the only time I've ever heard him at a loss for words. 

 

Her support of arts organizations turned out to be a failed political strategy.  I think she took the advice of someone who wanted her gone.  She became bogged down with her association with that stuff and her frontal attack on overspending on core services was ignored. 

 

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^Laure's flakiness was real, in that she hated campaigning.  She wasn't bad at it, but she hated doing it.  That's the main reason she wanted the four year terms.  And that's the problem with the liberal politicians in this town.  They really seem to think that going out there and talking to folks is beneath them.  Whereas the conservative ones (generally) think the people are beneath them but they like playing games so they are better at getting into that mindset.

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^Laure's flakiness was real, in that she hated campaigning.  She wasn't bad at it, but she hated doing it.  That's the main reason she wanted the four year terms.  And that's the problem with the liberal politicians in this town.  They really seem to think that going out there and talking to folks is beneath them.  Whereas the conservative ones (generally) think the people are beneath them but they like playing games so they are better at getting into that mindset.

 

I'm sorry.  This sounds like a ridiculous generalization.

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^Yeah, I'm pretty sure that PG is the only person who ENJOYS campaigning. Most probably despise it because you are constantly on your feet talking politics with people for extremely long days. Nothing about that sounds good

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^Laure's flakiness was real, in that she hated campaigning.  She wasn't bad at it, but she hated doing it.  That's the main reason she wanted the four year terms.  And that's the problem with the liberal politicians in this town.  They really seem to think that going out there and talking to folks is beneath them.  Whereas the conservative ones (generally) think the people are beneath them but they like playing games so they are better at getting into that mindset.

 

I'm sorry.  This sounds like a ridiculous generalization.

The part about Laure wasn't a generalization, as I mentioned her specifically.  My opinion about her and campaigning was based on my experiences with her; I can't remember if she outright said to me that she disliked it, but that was certainly how I took it.  While I understood the sentiment, I found it surprising, as I thought she was pretty good at it and I generally like doing things I'm good at.

 

The part about the liberal politicians was certainly a generalization, but given Qualls' & Mallory's performance in getting the streetcar to be more popular after nearly 4 years, I stand by it.  Same thing with the conservative politicians.  Cranley's statements that we can just shift the streetcar funding always were obvious bullshit.  Every argument marshalled against the streetcar can be used with equal validity against the MLK interchange.  If you don't demonstrate any intellectual integrity with your constituents, then you clearly don't have any respect for them, and consequently I argue you demonstrate you think they are beneath you.

 

Ridiculous?  Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion; only some bother to explain why they hold them.

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^Yeah, I'm pretty sure that PG is the only person who ENJOYS campaigning. Most probably despise it because you are constantly on your feet talking politics with people for extremely long days. Nothing about that sounds good

 

Ugh, having to hear people say ignorant things with facts completely wrong all day. Ignorant things and wrong facts that directly, negatively affect your personal livelihood and sense of self-worth.

 

It's sickening when constituents have to suffer because people conflated hand-kissing and baby-shaking skills with good decision-making ability.

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Ugh, having to hear people say ignorant things with facts completely wrong all day. Ignorant things and wrong facts that directly, negatively affect your personal livelihood and sense of self-worth.

 

It's sickening when constituents have to suffer because people conflated hand-kissing and baby-shaking skills with good decision-making ability.

Yeah--but, in the end, don't you just wanna hug PG?  After all, he's so young, handsome, well-heeled and connected.  Therefore, presto, right in front of your very eyes--the consummate "clown"!  He can be whomever or whatever he thinks you need/want him to be!  Really now, what's there not to like about PG?

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>Laure's flakiness was real, in that she hated campaigning.

 

I'm telling you right now, as someone who has known her personally since her TV days, that she is definitely and positively not a flake in real life and that was her attempt to appear inoffensive.  She benefited from name recognition and so she never had to campaign as hard as the others.  She was the *only* local politician since the financial crisis with the guts to suggest downsizing the police department.  In fact she was back on Cunningham's show early this week, even after having been knocked off, still calling for the police department budget to be hacked.  She's much more of a financial conservative than ANY of the so-called conservatives who now hold office, certainly including Cranley.

 

Qulinlivan, like Qualls, was a good person for at-large council elections but would not win in head-to-head county commissioner or congressional races.

 

 

>She wasn't bad at it, but she hated doing it.  That's the main reason she wanted the four year terms.  And that's the problem with the liberal politicians in this town.  They really seem to think that going out there and talking to folks is beneath them.  Whereas the conservative ones (generally) think the people are beneath them but they like playing games so they are better at getting into that mindset.

 

Look, campaigning truly SUCKS.  As someone just mentioned, you're having the same conversations over and over again with people who literally cannot understand how processes actually work.  They can't remember facts, dates, and have no concept of which governmental body does what.  They can be easily convinced that the city runs the county jail or that the city built the stadiums or that the city does dog licensing. 

 

The people who are effective politicians are those who love to campaign.  By all accounts John Cranley *loves* to campaign, and that's part of the reason why the Democrat party has been behind him for so long.  So what I'm saying is that Cranley loves to go around to community events, hear semi-educated people get emotional over something trivial (only one trash can!), then he identifies a boogeyman and frames that framing so as to cast himself as a voice of reason, as the one with common sense. 

 

 

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^Laure's flakiness was real, in that she hated campaigning.  She wasn't bad at it, but she hated doing it.  That's the main reason she wanted the four year terms.  And that's the problem with the liberal politicians in this town.  They really seem to think that going out there and talking to folks is beneath them.  Whereas the conservative ones (generally) think the people are beneath them but they like playing games so they are better at getting into that mindset.

 

I'm sorry.  This sounds like a ridiculous generalization.

The part about Laure wasn't a generalization, as I mentioned her specifically.  My opinion about her and campaigning was based on my experiences with her; I can't remember if she outright said to me that she disliked it, but that was certainly how I took it.  While I understood the sentiment, I found it surprising, as I thought she was pretty good at it and I generally like doing things I'm good at.

 

The part about the liberal politicians was certainly a generalization, but given Qualls' & Mallory's performance in getting the streetcar to be more popular after nearly 4 years, I stand by it.  Same thing with the conservative politicians.  Cranley's statements that we can just shift the streetcar funding always were obvious bullshit.  Every argument marshalled against the streetcar can be used with equal validity against the MLK interchange.  If you don't demonstrate any intellectual integrity with your constituents, then you clearly don't have any respect for them, and consequently I argue you demonstrate you think they are beneath you.

 

Ridiculous?  Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion; only some bother to explain why they hold them.

 

On second/third reading, I think I agree with you.  Retracting.  Thanks for the explanation.

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I generally agree with PAlexanders post.

 

Also, both Laure & Seelbach had adds playing on radio attacking them on the Buzz, the Whiz, and a country radio station. Plus a mail piece that went city wide attacking them too. If you're not campaigning hard to fight against those things you're in trouble.

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Seelbach campaigned harder but was also luckier to have won a seat in 2011. I think the republicans saw those two as easy targets for the very reason that they're not good at defending themselves.  Neither are particularly strong on talk radio.

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>Laure's flakiness was real, in that she hated campaigning.

 

I'm telling you right now, as someone who has known her personally since her TV days, that she is definitely and positively not a flake in real life and that was her attempt to appear inoffensive.  She benefited from name recognition and so she never had to campaign as hard as the others.  She was the *only* local politician since the financial crisis with the guts to suggest downsizing the police department.  In fact she was back on Cunningham's show early this week, even after having been knocked off, still calling for the police department budget to be hacked.  She's much more of a financial conservative than ANY of the so-called conservatives who now hold office, certainly including Cranley.

 

Qulinlivan, like Qualls, was a good person for at-large council elections but would not win in head-to-head county commissioner or congressional races.

 

 

>She wasn't bad at it, but she hated doing it.  That's the main reason she wanted the four year terms.  And that's the problem with the liberal politicians in this town.  They really seem to think that going out there and talking to folks is beneath them.  Whereas the conservative ones (generally) think the people are beneath them but they like playing games so they are better at getting into that mindset.

 

Look, campaigning truly SUCKS.  As someone just mentioned, you're having the same conversations over and over again with people who literally cannot understand how processes actually work.  They can't remember facts, dates, and have no concept of which governmental body does what.  They can be easily convinced that the city runs the county jail or that the city built the stadiums or that the city does dog licensing. 

 

The people who are effective politicians are those who love to campaign.  By all accounts John Cranley *loves* to campaign, and that's part of the reason why the Democrat party has been behind him for so long.  So what I'm saying is that Cranley loves to go around to community events, hear semi-educated people get emotional over something trivial (only one trash can!), then he identifies a boogeyman and frames that framing so as to cast himself as a voice of reason, as the one with common sense.

 

I've worked on both local and national political campaigns, so I'm familiar with how they can suck, and I'm familiar with the experience of voter interaction.  Heck, even if you haven't worked on campaigns one can have a pretty good understanding of how interacting with the average voter can be a frustrating ordeal.  I was in a bar prior to the election with a couple of friends and one asked how I was voting.  I said I was voting for Qualls because basically the streetcar was my only issue.  Immediately some dude at the bar started complaining about the streetcar project because some bus he was waiting for on Ridge Road didn't show up when he was expecting it and he had to walk several miles.  Of course, the response to that statement is that the isolated experience of an individual isn't the correct basis for policy, but even if you're not running for office, it's pretty obvious that someone telling you a story that is important to them isn't likely to be persuaded with a response like, "Uh, dude, your bus not showing up on time today doesn't have anything to do with anything."

 

As for "having the guts to cut the police department" that's a matter of opinion.  I never understood why the pro-streetcar people let the issue be characterized as a choice between streetcars and cops, particularly when it started to become an issue in 2009.  The fact is, the crime in OTR, and the type of crime in OTR, was bad when the streetcar was getting under way.  Also, there was a huge depression, a bunch of people were out of work, and you even the folks who saw the department as bloated could slowly accomplish their goals through retirement and attrition.  (I'm specifically referring to the situation in 2009, with the first charter amendment which started the process of turning the streetcar into a partisan issue.)  It never made any sense to me.

 

I liked Laure BECAUSE she proposed things like making sure we spend money on public art, and because she was unabashedly pro-streetcar.  But even you've said it, "The people who are effective politicians are those who love to campaign".  And that's been the liberal/progressive problem in this town- the people with the superior policy ideas seem to act as if campaigning is beneath them.  Qualls sure did.  So, to take your own prescription, if you want to be an effective politician, you have to force yourself to love campaigning.  Whining about it and proposing stupid things like four year terms has led us into this situation where we're stuck with a backward council for four freaking years.

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>And that's been the liberal/progressive problem in this town- the people with the superior policy ideas seem to act as if campaigning is beneath them.

 

They think a campaign is writing letters to the editor, knocking on some doors, raising money for ads, and sending out a bunch of peppy Facebook posts and tweets.  No, if you're going to put 1,000 hours into a campaign, put in another 500 the year before to MAKE SURE YOU WIN.  Politics is about WINNING. 

 

>Qualls sure did.  So, to take your own prescription, if you want to be an effective politician, you have to force yourself to love campaigning.

 

A big problem is that a lot of would-be politicians don't quite understand the media, and if you don't understand it I don't think you can ever be taught it.  They don't know how to build a relationship with these people and how to orchestrate active visuals for the cameras.  In Cincinnati you NEED to have a commanding presence on talk radio.  Roxanne Qualls supposedly stormed out of Bill Cunningham's studio back in the 90s and hasn't been back.  If you want to win in this town, you need Cunningham and the rest of the 700 guys and you need Lincoln Ware. 

 

 

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>mmediately some dude at the bar started complaining about the streetcar project because some bus he was waiting for on Ridge Road didn't show up when he was expecting it and he had to walk several miles. 

 

No, you never actually try to explain technical stuff to these guys.  Just make them like you personally and then they'll agree with your opinions.  What I do with these guys is move the conversation immediately to improved ADA features.  Suddenly make them the bad guy if they want to marginalize handicapped people. 

 

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>mmediately some dude at the bar started complaining about the streetcar project because some bus he was waiting for on Ridge Road didn't show up when he was expecting it and he had to walk several miles. 

 

No, you never actually try to explain technical stuff to these guys.  Just make them like you personally and then they'll agree with your opinions.  What I do with these guys is move the conversation immediately to improved ADA features.  Suddenly make them the bad guy if they want to marginalize handicapped people. 

 

Actually, the guy way out at the far end of a loop was probably making a good case or shorter loops.

But he'd never understand it...

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^One of the articles stated that a recount would have to wait until after 12/01.  Would that prevent the 9th council member from being able to vote on streetcar cancellation?  If so, it might be worth $60k to save $100M+...

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^One of the articles stated that a recount would have to wait until after 12/01.  Would that prevent the 9th council member from being able to vote on streetcar cancellation?  If so, it might be worth $60k to save $100M+...

 

That would be interesting

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