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Westlake: Crocker Park

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"<ahttp://www.crockerpark.com/images/birdseye.jpg">

 

http://www.crockerpark.com/index.html

 

Now thats a lifestyle center. Which is rather ridiculous to build a downtown in a suburb. A reason why i dont think this will actually be a "downtown" is the fact that its being built to isolate itself from the community. This is like building a development/cul-de-sacs with retail and parking.

 

This right here is a product of segregated, landlocked major cities. I dont see things like this working because its going to end up either hurting downtown cleveland, hurting the suburbs around westlake, or become a flop and hurt westlake itself.

 

Give yourself the option of an uncomplicated lifestyle. Come to Crocker Park where downtown amenities abound in a tree-lined setting.

 

Your great-grandfather was right. To him, a commute was a sweet walk downstairs and around the corner to his sunny Main Street office. This is what R.L. Stark is recreating today in Crocker Park. A unique mixed-use community, Crocker Park in Westlake, Ohio, combines gracious living and modern office space with the convenience of your favorite shops and restaurants only a stroll away. It couldn’t be more traditional. It couldn’t be more modern.

 

A variety of choices. This includes apartments, condos, town homes, and single family homes.

 

hmm i dont know, it has a somewhat "Pleasantville" creepiness to it as well.

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crocker park has already had its impact upon downtown cleveland.

 

The closing of stores in the avenue such as J. Crew (date TBD) and Banana Republic (RIP 12/2003) are directly attributed to the securing of locations in this project

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Crocker shoppers will find few stores

Wednesday, October 27, 2004

Janet H. Cho

Plain Dealer Reporter

Shoppers who flock to Crocker Park, the Westlake fashion mecca opening on Thursday, won't find many places to spend their money this week.

 

The $480 million development at the southwest quadrant of Crocker and Detroit Roads is proceeding with plans to throw open its gates as scheduled, but only six of the center's planned 50 stores will be ready for business.

 

It won't welcome the majority of its retail tenants until its Nov. 18 grand opening.

 

"They're all moving in in stages," said Darryl Whitehead, director of marketing for Crocker Park developer Robert L. Stark Enterprises Inc. "Between the 28th and [Nov.] 18th is when they'll all start to come in here."

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Easton is a VERY nice place but i believe from what i see now at Crocker Park and what i know is on the way (additional stores, restraunts, residences, and office space) that Crocker Park is by far the best mall in Ohio! The way this is set up as a small town enviornment is just amazing. With the christmas tree and lights, ice skating rink, life-sized checker boards its something special. Just my thought though, i strongly reccomend everyone give it a visit (especially this holiday season), you wont be dissapointed!!

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LOL wtf?? downtown cleveland is so much better! maybe im not so into shopping, but i like the fact that its real, the amount of art galleries, the amount of places to eat. And by far if you're into christmas decorations, a damn mall christmas tree is crap compared to the stuff downtown.

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Crocker Park (which I got to tour recently on a visit with a design group) is an interesting concept and is, in theory, a nice development. Easton is still better overall in most categories but Crocker Park has residential above the retail while Easton sits it across the 8 lane boulevard.

 

But of course, it's essentially exactly The Continent (in Columbus) but up-to-date.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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"All this is so good for the west side suburbs."

 

Sorry it's good for Westlake's tax revenue but otherwise it's just more retail over-saturation with Avon Commons a few miles west, and Great Northern expanding a few miles to the south, and the redevelopment of Beachcliff Market Square in Rocky River, etc., etc.

 

"not to mention its so perfect looking.. cant wait till everything is open"

 

Honestly, most places look perfect after being open barely one month. In twenty years, I say it will be like the Continent in Columbus. Buildings that are in Crocker Park have a 20-30 year life span - buildings in a 'genuine' downtown have been around for 2 to 3 times that span.

 

Amenities like huge chessboards and water features are nice but now they're pretty much everywhere. There's absolutely NO pedestrian integration/storefront access from Crocker Road itself - yet this is supposed to be part of Westlake, not an 'island'?

 

The point is that the ONLY redeeming feature of Crocker Park is introducing retailers who haven't had a presence in Western Cuyahoga County. Otherwise, it's another inward-facing, dry-vit, faux-Main Street development that makes poor use of an enormous swath of land. This is more of the same unsustainable development that's going to further the 'doughnut' effect that's already happened to other cities. I don't disagree that it offers a quality mix of retailers - but I think as you learn more about how the built environment affects us, you might see where Crocker Park could be so much better.

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Could you imagine how nice it would be if the developer put that $500 million into revamping, say, lower Euclid Avenue?

 

 

what are you talking about Frank, money will only flow into downtown cleveland when the gov't (through subsidies or whatever) will kick in money to "unsafe" developments.

 

Everybody knows the only way for a business/project to survive in downtown cleveland is with tax abatement!

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OK, I'm a BIG fan of the last couple sentences of this article.  Still could care less about Crocker Park, but I'm glad to know that Stark is maintaining his big plans for Downtown Cleveland!

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this is a damn shame. i was looking at the valencia website and i recognized both the riverwalk and the santana row hotels. this is exactly the type of hotel that belongs downtown not in the freakin burbs. oh well, the riverwalk is kinda cheesy and santana row is a bonafide life-style mall too. so i guess it'll fit right in. also, they build'em real nice so that is something. ugh -- it's too bad for downtown!

 

check it out:

http://www.hotelvalencia.com/

 

sa_building.jpg

 

sj_street.gif

 

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Ineed I like this man and his plans for DT!  I am in accord with the above, it would be much better in the DT area but this guy seems commited so who knows?

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I can't imagine the type of "hip, cutting-edge" person that is the target market of these boutique hotels would be interested in staying in one in Westlake.  Oh well, once one gets built, we will see more.  Hopefully downtown.  And if Stark builds that relationship, so much the better.  Maybe we will see one as part of his downtown development.

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Oh well, once one gets built, we will see more. Hopefully downtown. And if Stark builds that relationship, so much the better. Maybe we will see one as part of his downtown development.

 

If Crocker Park wasn't built and owned by Stark I'd take these announcements with a grain of salt.  I suppose the fact that every new tenant that is announced for Crocker is another tenant that Stark has a professional relationship with is a good thing.  I sure wouldn't argue if Stark wanted to add places like Indigo Nation, Urban Outfitters and a Boutique Hotel downtown.  So while it's not the best to see a boutique hotel open up out at Crocker, I do agree with X that the upside is the professional relationship Stark is building with Valencia.

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I was on the Hotel Valencia website, and those two hotels are beautiful. I just don't understand what makes a hotel "hip" or "cutting edge". Can someone explain to me what these hotels have that is so much better than a Marriott? What kind of ego does a person have to think "I am too hip or cutting edge to stay in a certain hotel"? Either way I am excited that Stark has a "vision" for downtown, and like a lot of other people, I believe that it is important that he is building these professional relationships with major retailers.

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more valencia hotel in the flesh, from my recent san antonio thread:

 

it's the one in the middle

img14965gx.jpg

 

from the backside and down below on the riverwalk

img14995nv.jpg

 

on the right

img15009ss.jpg

 

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very nice...too bad we don't have a meandering river like that here in cleveland where developers could build hotels and housing and take advantage of opportunities for recreation/beauty...  if only there was some sort of bendy---no---crooked river to work with...

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Woolly- atmosphere.  That's what they have.  I don't think people stay at them to make a point about how hip they are, its just a question of staying somewhere funky and unique.  Granted, building a new one from scratch in a mall seems to defeat the purpose of that, but see my post above.

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In case anyone cares. From the 11/15/05 PD:

 

 

Westlake complex growing up to be success

Tuesday, November 15, 2005

Janet H. Cho

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

A year after Crocker Park opened with a lot of noise but only six stores, the Westlake lifestyle center boasts dozens of new retailers and restaurants, about 70,000 square feet of leased office space and more than 200 apartment residents.

 

On Saturday, when developer Robert Stark of Robert L. Stark Enterprises Inc. flips the switch to light the 50-foot Christmas tree and illuminate more than $750,000 in Christmas decorations, the region's first mixed-use shopping center will celebrate its first full year in business.

 

"Everything that's going on here is so exceeding my expectations," Stark said last week, striding through the development with arms outstretched like a little boy showing off his favorite toy. "This is my baby. This is seven years of birth right here."

 

Last year, few stores were open before the holiday shopping season. Many were not even leased.

 

READ MORE AT:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/1132050711295410.xml&coll=2

 

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Stark estimates that Crocker Park has drawn more than 18 million visitors its first year, including delegations from Israel, Canada and the former Soviet Union.

 

since when is this acceptable journalism? soviet union? are you kidding me? who calls them that?

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But then again, so does Cleveland...


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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this is from a peedee update. sounds great, but i'd rather it be pesht:

 

 

Crocker Park for-sale homes coming soon

 

4:49 p.m.

 

Westlake's Crocker Park, which wants to be a slice of the city in the heart of suburbia, is ready for its next big phase: for-sale residential. Crocker Park developer Bob Stark has turned to Beachwood's Coral Co., best known for its work in Cleveland and the inner-ring suburbs. Starting this March, Coral will build 116 for-sale housing units on 21 acres on the development's western edge. The $45 million project, dubbed Westhampton at Crocker Park, will take its cues from New Urbanist design principles and include townhomes and loft-style units.

 

 

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here is a graphic and complete article from today's PD:

http://www.cleveland.com/crockerpark/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/1138181784163710.xml&coll=2

 

01map25.gif

 

Crocker Park owners ready for next phase

March start planned for townhomes, lofts, houses

Wednesday, January 25, 2006

Christopher Montgomery

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Westlake's Crocker Park, which wants to be a slice of the city in the heart of suburbia, is ready for its next big phase: for-sale residential.

 

To maintain the urban flavor of the mixed-use retail project, Crocker Park developer Bob Stark has turned to Beachwood's Coral Co., best known for its work in Cleveland and the inner-ring suburbs.

 

Starting in March, Coral will build 116 for-sale housing units on 21 acres on the development's western edge. The $45 million project, dubbed Westhampton at Crocker Park, will take its cues from New Urbanist design principles and include townhomes, loft-style units and larger, attached homes.

 

 

READ MORE AT THE LINK ABOVE

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Great news! I am in the market for a new home at the moment. Now I can help kill the city of Cleveland and live a boring life with one singular purchase!

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Just look at how it connects (not) to the surrounding neighborhood! 

 

And notice the continued diligence in PD reporting on this, Bob Stark's ONLY development project in Cleveland!

 

I have still not been to the site and you all can chastise me for doing so, but I couldn't keep from laughing at this quote: "The architecture will evoke Dupont Circle in Washington and residential neighborhoods in parts of Manhattan and London." 

 

If by "evoke" you mean "fabricate something authentic in something nearly completely inauthentic," then I accept the statement.

 

Sadly, if there were a development in Cleveland right now that had the same said about it, I'd probably be peeing my pants right now. 

 

It's interesting, too, that all of these developers are working on, have worked on, or are proposing major projects in Cleveland.  How is it possible that they cannot see the connection between the failure of our inner city's retail market (our housing market isn't failing) and the proliferation of developments like this (a 180-acre development in North Royalton?!)?

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^nothing like a Cheesecake Factory in my front yard!  I am sure that I will live an interesting life with all the artsy folk that will become my neighbors.

 

On a serious note...I think my grandfather used to own land that is now part of Crocker Park. 

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I have a proposal. What about calling these places "Cheesecake Centers" instead of "Lifestyle Centers," to reflect:

 

1. The ubiquity of Cheesecake Factories at said centers;

2. Their utter cheesiness; and

3. Their propensity for contributing to heart disease -- the urban heart, that is.

 

Used in a sentence: "I can't believe they're building a new Cheesecake Center in North Royalton!"

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when cracker park first opened (there's aphoto thread somewhere).

 

I took photos, and attempted to run simple errands throughout the whole complex. They were: 1) Buy a cup of coffee 2) buy some clothes 3) Buy zippo fluid 4) go grocery shopping.

 

It was accomplished, but took well over an hour, and i had to jump over one brick wall, dodge traffic, traverse a large unfriendly parking lot, duck through back alleys, and look at directories numerous times. Here in cleveland heights i can do the same with a car/feet combo in far less time.

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im dreading that north royalton one... theres no two lane roads here, just one in each direction and if they think widening the ones around this development they still arent taking into account that basically the whole city already needs road widening pretty much everywhere on top of the lifestyle center s*** its just going to cause a whole lot more congestion. 

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when cracker park first opened (there's aphoto thread somewhere).

 

I took photos, and attempted to run simple errands throughout the whole complex. They were: 1) Buy a cup of coffee 2) buy some clothes 3) Buy zippo fluid 4) go grocery shopping.

 

It was accomplished, but took well over an hour, and i had to jump over one brick wall, dodge traffic, traverse a large unfriendly parking lot, duck through back alleys, and look at directories numerous times. Here in cleveland heights i can do the same with a car/feet combo in far less time.

 

Likewise over here on Shaker Square and my retail establishments have unique "soul", not mass market fed down your throat appeal!  Although secretly (well not anymore) I wouldnt mind these types of retail establishemtn lining streets like prospect, euclid & st. clair in downtown

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Whenever I read articles about developments like Crocker Park and Legacy Village being called "New Urbanist" projects, it makes me think that apparently the term must have been derived with the thinking that  "New" stands for  "Plow down or build miles away from any yucky old structures so we can build it all brand spanking new", and "urban-ist" meaning, "it's kinda like being like urban, except without the crime, poor people, minorities, history, culture or character."

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Stark must have gotten a lot of retail interest at the Vegas convention, because it has just been anounced that Puma, BCBG, Guess?, Sephora, Apple, Smith & Hawken, Chipotle, and Norwalk Furniture will come to Crocker Park. Some retailer (maybe independant) called Petite de Vie is going in a really fancy French-looking kiosk they are building. Other retailers coming soon but unknown to me, but coming soon also include Audio Visions, and Catherine's Chocolates.A Gold's Gym, Cold Stone Creamery, and Anthropologie have been known for quite some time, but they are also included in the "coming soon category".

 

http://www.crockerpark.com/shopping/retail.php

 

Westhampton - a for sale residential component on the periphery of Crocker Park and a collaboration with Coral company is also coming soon. The site plan appears to show over 100+ units. Interestingly, a good number of units will be attached to the rear of the existing parking garages.

 

http://www.thecoralcompany.com/westhampton-at-crocker.html

 

This development is far from "completed"

 

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