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Norwood: Development and News

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^If all 4 phases happen, that will be a significant boost to that neighborhood! I'm nervous though that the financing will struggle to find comparable condos in Norwood at price points high enough to justify the renovation costs.

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A source tells me that the tiny "skyscraper" in downtown Norwood -- the 6-story thing across from the Walgreen's, sustained significant water damage when its pipes burst while vacant.  Plus the owners foolishly sold off its back parking lot which inhibits their ability to get financing for a redevelopment.  So no telling what its future might be. 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1605186,-84.4571952,3a,75y,139.21h,109.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQzZcpdbIza3x6JE5YzOSkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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Get a look at Rookwood Exchange’s $15 million hotel

 

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The final piece of the more than $100 million mixed-use Rookwood Exchange development is open for business.

 

Residence Inn by Marriott, a 118-room hotel in Norwood, opened for business on Sept. 29. Developed by Jeffrey R. Anderson Real Estate Inc., Brandicorp and Lexington Management Corp., the hotel is expected to build on the success of the existing Courtyard by Marriott hotel at the property by catering to long-term business travelers.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/10/02/get-a-look-at-rookwood-exchange-s-15-million-hotel.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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^Are those car lifts just for style points?  Like, some sucker takes a photo of their car up on the lift, posts to Facebook, and everyone asks where he is?  THE RESIDENCE INN BY MARRIOT, duh. 

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^Are those car lifts just for style points?  Like, some sucker takes a photo of their car up on the lift, posts to Facebook, and everyone asks where he is?  THE RESIDENCE INN BY MARRIOT, duh.

 

Car lifts will be valet only, its how they were able to meet parking requirements. It would be great to see more of these in the future instead of massive parking lots.

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Get a look at planned office project along Norwood Lateral

 

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A local developer is preparing a nearly 5-acre site along the Norwood Lateral for a class A office project.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/12/11/exclusive-get-a-look-at-planned-office-project.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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^If all 4 phases happen, that will be a significant boost to that neighborhood! I'm nervous though that the financing will struggle to find comparable condos in Norwood at price points high enough to justify the renovation costs.

 

I take no joy in the fact that I anticipated this deal falling apart: http://www.norwoodstar.com/2018/04/02/legacy-lofts-on-courtland-development-is-not-happening/

 

That's too bad for Norwood as it would have been a good boost to the neighborhood.

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Was driving around the city before I had to go to work and looking for projects. Found this one at the corner of Montgomery and Waverly. It use to be a few older 2 story industrial buildings if I'm not mistaken. It was a nice little surprise to find.

 

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I've been spending more time in Rookwood commons, the big giant suburban strip mall with all the chain stores and whole foods, etc..

 

I've come to the conclusion that who ever approved this development is a massive idiot. 

 

Just why?

 

 

Don't get me started on why they choose to do a massive suburban strip mall instead of something more enclosed/urban minded. It's so close to the urban core, why did they want such a large suburban mall instead of something more fitting for it's surroundings? Blows my mind...this must have been during a time where "urban centric design" was considered a curse word and any development without 20 acres of surface parking was considered sin.

 

Next, the pedestrian safety, or lack thereof is disgusting. Walking from the parking lot to the chains you have cars bolting through the lanes of traffic. I almost got hit 3 times yesterday! No one looks, everyone is speeding. This area needs bump outs, 3D cross walks, larger and wider side walks, patrols. 

 

This development is so messed up. The design is stupid, out of place suburban worshipping, while being so near the urban core. Kenwood mall comes across as more urban than this crap.

 

Furthermore, this design was so focused on cars that nothing was designed for the pedestrian. It's disgusting and the city of Norwood should feel ashamed that this ugly thing was ever built.

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Maybe I'm thinking of something else, but didn't somebody buy Rookwood recently and started discussions about making changes?

 

Yes I agree, absolute mess.

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The main thing that bothers me about Rookwood is that there is no pedestrian (or car really) connection between the two halves. If you want to walk from Nordstrom Rack to the Gap, what should be 50 yards turns into walking all the way around the development and down a glorified alley with no sidewalks and cars wizzing by. It could be as easy as moving Talbots and Shoe Carnival to open up a pedestrian thruway across the buildings.

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The section near Edwards Rd. was built 10 years before the part closer to I-71.  To have built a connection in the middle would have meant breaking leases with absolutely no benefit to the bottom line.  

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Still they could have planned for a connection to be made after lease terms were up, but they blocked it on the new side too.  The Talbot's space looks to be sectioned off just right from above, with parapet walls on both sides, but they filled it in anyway.  The whole place really is a disaster, and the only reason it's successful I think is because of its proximity to Hyde Park and Oakley.  It has no inherent positive qualities, and even the driving experience is awful, especially from the Madison Road side.   

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Everyone calm down, Rookwood Commons and Pavilion will be connected. Its in the financial phase right now. The commons development will also be getting new development on the existing surface parking lots. Everything takes time. People also need to remember that both shopping centers when complete were a major gamble. No one would have developed something like that in the City of Cincinnati let alone outside Kenwood or Tri-County area (when it was hopping). There are successes and failures with anything. They brought in a lot of retailers and restaurants new to the market. They created a more convenient area to shop instead of the malls around the beltway. 

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The only big issue I have is with Rookwood (work a second job at one of the stores) is how much more parking there is on the Bed Bath and Beyond side opposed to the Nordstrom rack side. On any given summer Saturday or around the holidays it can be a pain to find any parking and they do not advertise very well that you can park in garage behind Potbelly’s. 

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^ Seems like most people are going to Joseph Beth, LongHorn, First Watch, or BW3, and that's where it's tightest.  It's also a tough haul from the garage to there with no sidewalks.

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Saw on Reddit today that West Elm is opening at Rookwood Commons (or pavilion, whichever one is to the west). They left Kenwood, and the Cincinnati market, in 2010. Glad to see them back, however, in other cities they are opening in more up and coming neighborhoods... Wonder why they didn't choose OTR? 

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35 minutes ago, 513to424 said:

Saw on Reddit today that West Elm is opening at Rookwood Commons (or pavilion, whichever one is to the west). They left Kenwood, and the Cincinnati market, in 2010. Glad to see them back, however, in other cities they are opening in more up and coming neighborhoods... Wonder why they didn't choose OTR? 

 

They did look in OTR for awhile, but couldnt find the sq. ft. numbers they were after. They are opening in the Commons next to REI. 

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I have a question...I just started working in Norwood and noticed their main business district has so many chain options:

 

Larosas

 

Frisches

 

Skyline Chilli

 

Taco Bell

 

McDonalds

 

KFC

 

Arby's

 

White Castle

 

Wendy's

 

Chipotle 

 

Subway

 

Jimmy John's

 

Lee's Fried Chicken

 

What's impressed me that all of these chains were probably less than a 5 minute walk from one another. 

 

How the heck did Norwood get so many fast food chains with half a block form each other, but areas of uptown and downtown can't sniff even a larosas downtown? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Downtown people don't eat as much fast food as suburbanites. Also, it's much tougher to make it without a drive-through and lots of activity through all dayparts in fast food today. Back in the '80s when Downtowns had a lot of fast food it was a totally different business environment for the companies internally.

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55 minutes ago, troeros said:

I have a question...I just started working in Norwood and noticed their main business district has so many chain options:

 

Larosas

 

Frisches

 

Skyline Chilli

 

Taco Bell

 

McDonalds

 

KFC

 

Arby's

 

White Castle

 

Wendy's

 

Chipotle 

 

Subway

 

Jimmy John's

 

Lee's Fried Chicken

 

What's impressed me that all of these chains were probably less than a 5 minute walk from one another. 

 

How the heck did Norwood get so many fast food chains with half a block form each other, but areas of uptown and downtown can't sniff even a larosas downtown? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because their "main business district" looks like this. Fast food chains select locations with out buildings, parking lots and drive thrus  

Screen Shot 2019-10-23 at 1.04.27 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-10-23 at 1.03.05 PM.png

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When I used to live in Norwood I would often walk from my house at Carter and Sherman to there. It's a 15 minute walk but gets pretty bleak once you get to the Walgreens due to all the surface parking and cars moving around like you are in the way. 

 

The main distinguishing factor here is zoning. Cincinnati has regulations preventing strip malls and drive-thru's in the CBD, Norwood doesn't and welcomes them. Fast food can tenant storefronts downtown but they have to play by the rules. Most of the real estate brokers these chains use don't understand urban and don't want to. Their corporate clients see massive profits with drive-thru's, free parking and the like. They are unwilling to experiment with urbanism so they avoid it or try to break the communities zoning code through variances and appeals.

 

On a macro decision scale, Cincinnati waged this fight 20 years ago when a McDonald's wanted to locate around where the casino is now and wanted a conventional store. Then again in the early 2000's when Kroger tried to demolish the Haile Justice Center for a new box to replace the one on Vine Street. The city fought these and our core is less compromised with automobile-oriented out-parcels because of it.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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1 hour ago, troeros said:

How the heck did Norwood get so many fast food chains with half a block form each other, but areas of uptown and downtown can't sniff even a larosas downtown?

 

LaRosa's specifically stated a few years ago that they had no interest in opening a location downtown. They said that downtown residents can place an order for delivery and it will be handled from their Queensgate location. It is disappointing that many of these iconic Cincinnati brands have no interest in having a signature location downtown, other than Frisch's. A flagship UDF would be perfect for The Banks IMO.

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1 minute ago, taestell said:

 

LaRosa's specifically stated a few years ago that they had no interest in opening a location downtown. They said that downtown residents can place an order for delivery and it will be handled from their Queensgate location. It is disappointing that many of these iconic Cincinnati brands have no interest in having a signature location downtown, other than Frisch's. A flagship UDF would be perfect for The Banks IMO.

 

I mean it's interesting because I've seen larosas in really shady areas. I didn't even know there was a larosas in roselawn for crying out loud! But not one in downtown? It's just so confusing... obviously they are comfortable with locating there stores in very poor areas so that can't be a reason. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, JYP said:

When I used to live in Norwood I would often walk from my house at Carter and Sherman to there. It's a 15 minute walk but gets pretty bleak once you get to the Walgreens due to all the surface parking and cars moving around like you are in the way. 

 

The main distinguishing factor here is zoning. Cincinnati has regulations preventing strip malls and drive-thru's in the CBD, Norwood doesn't and welcomes them. Fast food can tenant storefronts downtown but they have to play by the rules. Most of the real estate brokers these chains use don't understand urban and don't want to. Their corporate clients see massive profits with drive-thru's, free parking and the like. They are unwilling to experiment with urbanism so they avoid it or try to break the communities zoning code through variances and appeals.

 

On a macro decision scale, Cincinnati waged this fight 20 years ago when a McDonald's wanted to locate around where the casino is now and wanted a conventional store. Then again in the early 2000's when Kroger tried to demolish the Haile Justice Center for a new box to replace the one on Vine Street. The city fought these and our core is less compromised with automobile-oriented out-parcels because of it.

 

The Norwood Kroger and the mcdonalds/taco Bell/KFC on the same lot seem to somewhat shrink the size of the overall lot. 

 

In my opinion it's not that bad and kinda reminds me of the current uptown Kroger parking lot size. 

 

I'm just surprised that Norwood was able to get so many chains, plus a Marshalls as well. Norwood by and large is still a lower income neighborhood. I was always under the impression that franchise owners tend to want to avoid lower income areas because of theft/crime/residents that don't have spending power. 

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Norwood is going yuppie.  It's going to be a different place in 2030.  

 

The 2002 Metro Moves plan was going to put light rail right in this area.  Unfortunately Cincinnatians have been tricked by Cranley into blocking the low-cost ROW with a bike trail.  

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1 minute ago, jmecklenborg said:

Norwood is going yuppie.  It's going to be a different place in 2030.  

 

The 2002 Metro Moves plan was going to put light rail right in this area.  Unfortunately Cincinnatians have been tricked by Cranley into blocking the low-cost ROW with a bike trail.  

 

It has some really cool homes honestly. Especially up the hill. Small secluded streets, old historic homes, nice business district. I definitely see the charm of norwood. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, the area feels like it's Deer Park on steroids, but being so adjacent to Oakley/Hyde Park, it seems like a natural progression would be for Norwood to become absorbed into the gentrification pool as well 

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4 minutes ago, troeros said:

I'm just surprised that Norwood was able to get so many chains, plus a Marshalls as well.

 

Not sure what you mean by "get" ... these are the same chains that exist off of every highway exit in America. They are nothing special and are not a sign of vibrancy. Marshall's is a discount clothing store. I agree that it's unfortunate that Downtown does not have more cheap fast food and no clothing retailers except for a few expensive boutique type of places in OTR. But I don't look at Norwood and think, man they're really killing it there!

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Norwood's in the exact center of the metro, not DT Cincinnati.  It has great highway access and tons of homes on walkable streets, oriented around what is a fairly walkable business district, despite the big strip mall being discusses and the post-GM strip mall/business park.  

 

When/if this central area is redeveloped we'll see an even stronger push into Norwood than we're already seeing.  

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16 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

It has some really cool homes honestly. Especially up the hill. Small secluded streets, old historic homes, nice business district.

 

Where is this alleged nice business district?

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

How the heck did Norwood get so many fast food chains with half a block form each other, but areas of uptown and downtown can't sniff even a larosas downtown? 


Let's just review your list real quick....
 

  • Larosas (Uptown has one, Downtown closest is Queensgate)
  • Frisch's (Uptown closest is Central Parkway, Downtown has one)
  • Skyline (Several around Downtown and Uptown)
  • Taco Bell (Located in Downtown & Uptown)
  • McDonalds (Located Uptown, Downtown closest is Covington)
  • KFC (One uptown, also the closest one to Downtown)
  • Arby's (Closest is Bellevue, KY)
  • White Castle (Located uptown, closest to Downtown is Queensgate, Covington, or uptown)
  • Wendy's (Not uptown, formerly downtown, closest is Queensgate)
  • Chipotle (Both uptown and downtown)
  • Subway (Both uptown and downtown)
  • Jimmy John's (Both uptown and downtown)
  • Lee's Fried Chicken (closest is in Bellevue, KY)

So yeah, on top of all the other options in uptown and downtown (the one's that are local, quality, and not the usual sub par fast food fare), I'd say Downtown and Uptown are doing just fine when it comes to "getting" a collection of this amazing cuisine.
 

Although those neighborhoods really do lack the surface parking lot charm of Surrey Square. 

A good fast food/suburban development district is also always just a quick Southbank Shuttle ride away over to Covington. 

Edited by Gordon Bombay

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9 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Norwood's in the exact center of the metro, not DT Cincinnati.  It has great highway access and tons of homes on walkable streets, oriented around what is a fairly walkable business district, despite the big strip mall being discusses and the post-GM strip mall/business park.  

 

When/if this central area is redeveloped we'll see an even stronger push into Norwood than we're already seeing.  

 

Yeah, I think that Norwood has the potential to redevelop faster than other neighborhoods like Camp Washington or Fairmount that are closer to Downtown Cincinnati but less central in the region overall. Unfortunately I don't believe Norwood has made any effort to adopt a form-based code, improve walkability and bikeability, or calm traffic on Montgomery. The redo of Surry Square ~10 years ago kept the existing suburban big box format of the original. If they put a Liberty Center or Easton style development there, it would create a nice little "downtown" for Norwood and raise the value of the homes on all of the existing walkable residential streets nearby. Combine that with improvements to Metro Plus providing a frequent, fast connection to Downtown Cincinnati, and you've got a great TOD node.

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