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Cleveland: Downtown: The Avenue District

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40 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Either as owner, developer, construction manager, property management or investor, Geis Companies is heavily involved in urban projects -- The 9 (tower, bank rotunda, Cuyahoga County Admin, 1010 Euclid, and they've added a 100-employee Cleveland office at The 9), May Co. renovation, Midtown tech park (built on spec for cash in the depth of the recession), Offices at The Agora, Western Reserve Building, Ohio Knitting Mills, most recently property management of the Avenue District 10-story building and townhomes, the development of the Phase II condo building, another condo building on East 9th, and probably some others I'm forgetting.

So @KJP it is Gris and Co and not Fred Geis developing the spag house project you have been hinting at?

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Yes. Fred is pretty much stepping away from his day-to-day involvement in the company. Wants to travel the world.

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15 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Does anyone know the plans for the lot that they are currently using for staging?  Is that for the next phase?

Yeah that is the next phase with a new and improved design for that phase. I believe the proposal was posted a few weeks ago in this thread.

Edited by WindyBuckeye
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I really like that each of the four blocks have different style townhouses. Definitely gives a more authentic and organic feel than if they were all planned and built all at once.

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Where is the new condo tower in this project (not the existing one at 12 & st. Clair)? Looking at the image, they all look like townhouses.

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There is no new condo tower in the Avenue District.

 

EDIT: there is a 5-story condo building proposed on the north side of the existing 10-story, 2008-built building at East 12th and St. Clair.

Edited by KJP
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Thanks KJP. on the Geis tower thread, people are saying the avenue district condos will be the test/pilot for site at the NY Spaghetti House. What condo tower are they they referring to?

 

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1 minute ago, Pugu said:

Thanks KJP. on the Geis tower thread, people are saying the avenue district condos will be the test/pilot for site at the NY Spaghetti House. What condo tower are they they referring to?

 

They are referring to these:

image.png.4fbb1a0a496a07fa4d78ab8fc025956d.png

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2 minutes ago, Pugu said:

Thanks KJP. on the Geis tower thread, people are saying the avenue district condos will be the test/pilot for site at the NY Spaghetti House. What condo tower are they they referring to?

 

 

The 5-story condo building in the Avenue District is the market test for a proposed, larger condo building a half-mile away at East 9th and Bolivar.

Edited by KJP
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6 hours ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Get these done quick and on to the next phase!

Id rather have quality over speed.  I just hope they can bury utilities. 

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2 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

Id rather have quality over speed.  I just hope they can bury utilities. 

Wasn’t saying they weren’t going to be good quality. Just like seeing the development building up quickly. 

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6 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Wasn’t saying they weren’t going to be good quality. Just like seeing the development building up quickly. 

No problem.  I just know what you wrote, not what you meant. 😉

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1 hour ago, MyTwoSense said:

Id rather have quality over speed.  I just hope they can bury utilities. 

I do believe the utilities will be underground.

Like the other townhouses.

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Web page for the new condo development has gone live. With the schematic designs approved last week, I'm told that construction will start as soon as Geis gets its building permit. Best part is, it doesn't even have to build a foundation for the condos. BTW the development seems to have the name "12th and Ave"...

 

https://www.12thandave.com/

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22 minutes ago, KJP said:

Web page for the new condo development has gone live. With the schematic designs approved last week, I'm told that construction will start as soon as Geis gets its building permit. Best part is, it doesn't even have to build a foundation for the condos. BTW the development seems to have the name "12th and Ave"...

 

https://www.12thandave.com/

Well this is gonna be awesome! Looking forward to the progress of 12th an Dave 😛

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27 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Well this is gonna be awesome! Looking forward to the progress of 12th an Dave 😛

 

I’m glad I’m not the only one who read 12th an Dave... renderings look good, but I hope they make the gym bigger. Pretty teeny gym from that photo for such a large condo complex. 

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31 minutes ago, Clevecane said:

 

I’m glad I’m not the only one who read 12th an Dave... renderings look good, but I hope they make the gym bigger. Pretty teeny gym from that photo for such a large condo complex. 

There is a really nice YMCA across the street.

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1 hour ago, simplythis said:

If Pre-Sales are strong is there any chance whatsoever that they increase the height to even out

with the apartment building

 

No. If pre-sales are strong, they will build the East 9th tower. 

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3 minutes ago, jjames0408 said:

One of my realtor friends thinks that 700 is very high for downtown. I'm eagerly awaiting seeing how this goes. 

Lets get those lawyers down the street and athletes that play downtown to buy them up ASAP.

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11 minutes ago, jjames0408 said:

One of my realtor friends thinks that 700 is very high for downtown. I'm eagerly awaiting seeing how this goes. 

 

The downtown condo market is so small right now that I'm not sure how someone can say that with confidence. My review of Zillow shows approximately 40 condos currently for sale in the CBD, most of which are under 2,000 sq. feet. That's for an area with a population over 15,000.

 

If downtown Cleveland can be what a lot of us on this forum believe it can be, then it ought to be able to support a few (or more) condos that aren't even $1 mil. There's certainly enough money in the metro area. Let's hope these units get eaten up!

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6 hours ago, jjames0408 said:

One of my realtor friends thinks that 700 is very high for downtown. I'm eagerly awaiting seeing how this goes. 

Actually considering that townhouses in some other areas of Cleveland that are outside of Downtown is going for $ 500,000.  Then $300,000 to

$ 700,000+ is in the right ball park for DOWNTOWN CONDOS.

IF they are high quality and good location.

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20 hours ago, KJP said:

 

No. If pre-sales are strong, they will build the East 9th tower. 

 

With construction expected to begin soon, and the website launched etc.  If pre-sales hit 50% by March(or sometime early in the year), how long are you hearing they'll wait until they start moving forward with the E. 9th tower? 

Also, from what you're hearing, would extremely good/quick sales impact the height of the E. 9th tower(ie.. if things go good would they build a taller tower with more units?)

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8 minutes ago, NR said:

 

With construction expected to begin soon, and the website launched etc.  If pre-sales hit 50% by March(or sometime early in the year), how long are you hearing they'll wait until they start moving forward with the E. 9th tower? 

Also, from what you're hearing, would extremely good/quick sales impact the height of the E. 9th tower(ie.. if things go good would they build a taller tower with more units?)

I would think they would stick with the initial plans of all goes well with the Avenue height.0

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9 minutes ago, NR said:

 

With construction expected to begin soon, and the website launched etc.  If pre-sales hit 50% by March(or sometime early in the year), how long are you hearing they'll wait until they start moving forward with the E. 9th tower? 

Also, from what you're hearing, would extremely good/quick sales impact the height of the E. 9th tower(ie.. if things go good would they build a taller tower with more units?)

 

I don't think they'll have to wait until March to know how well these condos are being received. Look at how fast Knez's townhouses are moving. I'm sure Geis thinks it will be offering a better product. Geis should have some good insights by the end of the year.

 

Geis has done a lot of work on the tower project. But a financier has asked Geis for a smaller "pro forma" condo project to demonstrate the viability of the CBD's new-construction condo market. Once they have the data from the Avenue District, Geis will go back to the financier. Depending on the data and the financier's reaction to it, it is possible the final form of the East 9th tower could be impacted by the sales at Avenue District. But if it's going to change, I don't expect it would be bigger. A 24-story condo tower is a big step up from a five-story condo building. If the sales come in more slowly than Geis hopes, the East 9th tower could be smaller or be put on hold for a longer period of time.

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23 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I don't think they'll have to wait until March to know how well these condos are being received. Look at how fast Knez's townhouses are moving. I'm sure Geis thinks it will be offering a better product. Geis should have some good insights by the end of the year.

 

Geis has done a lot of work on the tower project. But a financier has asked Geis for a smaller "pro forma" condo project to demonstrate the viability of the CBD's new-construction condo market. Once they have the data from the Avenue District, Geis will go back to the financier. Depending on the data and the financier's reaction to it, it is possible the final form of the East 9th tower could be impacted by the sales at Avenue District. But if it's going to change, I don't expect it would be bigger. A 24-story condo tower is a big step up from a five-story condo building. If the sales come in more slowly than Geis hopes, the East 9th tower could be smaller or be put on hold for a longer period of time.

How long can it be put on hold.  Don't they have to develop the property within five years of the date of demolition of the spag house (the date of which I don't recall).

 

By the way I don't trust the word of any "financier" as far as I can throw them.

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1 minute ago, Htsguy said:

How long can it be put on hold.  Don't they have to develop the property within five years of the date of demolition of the spag house (the date of which I don't recall).

 

By the way I don't trust the word of any "financier" as far as I can throw them.

 

Yes, Geis has to submit a development plan within five years of the NY Spaghetti House demolition which took place in 2015.

 

Some developers have fostered pretty good partnerships with their financiers.

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With just 31 condos to sale it should be plenty of people in the Greater Cleveland area, not to mention boomerangs and new people moving into the area to rather quickly FILL THE BUILDING!

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