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Cleveland: Downtown: The Avenue District

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-Grasscat, I could not find an earlier thread, if one exists please combine them.

 

-Anyone have a subscription to Crains, so we can see the whole article.

 

-More good housing news??  :clap:

 

 

 

 

 

City megaproject talks revive

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

Long-quiet plans are stirring to replace a series of city-owned parking lots with a $100 million downtown neighborhood of condominiums and townhouses along parts of East 12th and 13th streets from St. Clair to Superior avenues.

Chris Ronayne, Mayor Jane Campbell's chief of staff, said the Campbell administration and home builder Zaremba Inc. of Cleveland hope by the end of March to reach terms of a development agreement covering the parking lots. He said plans call for selling the first parcel to the developer by November.

 

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com

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I remember reading this a while back.  I thought one of the buildings was actually going to be retirement living.

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How many times have I looked at this part of Downtown Cleveland's periphery and envisioned this sort of thing???  I can't even begin to count!

 

This would be spectacular and I only hope it can progress positively.  I've seen large-scale residential developments of this type developed very well...namely the Hoyt Street Yards project in Portland, OR (see http://www.hoytstreetproperties.com) and I desperately wanted the same to come to Cleveland. 

 

That's something I never got, by the way...Portland has had the nation's worst unemployment rate since I graduated in 2000.  I moved there that year...so I should know.  However, there is this unprecedented building boom all over town!  It's crazy how much housing has been built there over the past 10 years.  Which begs the question that I've seen on this site several times before..."If we build it, will they come?"  Which comes first...the jobs or the people?

 

I feel like there are so many people like myself out there who are just itching to return to Cleveland.  But the chief thing holding us back is that we feel like the city would disappoint us upon our return.  If we put a message out there, as Portland has done, that we're optimistic, we're growing, we're exciting...people will come back!

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This project would turn E. 12th street into the high end, "park avenue" district of Cleveland.  Parties in Warehouse Dist., Live entertainment over on 4th St., and high end, quieter living on 12th.  Cleveland is growing up!!! 

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hot!

 

There's a nice stretch of E. 12th street that already exists, so I can already envision the types of growth that could occur. 

 

Wasn't there a planned redevelopment of Perk Park that I believe sits adjacent to this site?  That could add to this development nicely!

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I have SCREAMED about the street from 12 street upto 26 street for awhile!

 

It has the best views in the city.  Hamilton, Marginal and Lakeside are just ripe for highrise condos and Hotel towers (easy to walk to the heart of the civic center, playhouse sq., and other downtown districts and an easy commute to other near downtown 'hoods).  The views of the lake and the City will be second to none.

 

Let hope they build STREET LEVEL retail that enhances the projects and the neighborhood as well as EXTENDING the waterfront right thru the middle of this.  I am interested in knowing if RTA has any participation in this project. :? :? :?

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Yes, MGD, there is a planned redevelopment of Perk Plaza.  Rendering are here: http://www.parkworks.org/dgreen.html

 

This will also tie in nicely with the Superior Ave Streetscape and the hoped for loft conversions, as well as CSU's master plan for housing north of campus.  The quadrangle will be an exciting place in a few years, I hope.

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Herre is the developer's proposed site plan (to under go numerous iterations, i'm sure...)  Just to spur a little discussion. 

avenue_district.jpg

Thanks for the assistance, MayDay!   

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Not much detail, but it's just so exciting to picture all of this!  It also appears that there are a lot more options for future development sites around these ones.  Man, I've been dreaming this up for years...I guess I'm in the right field!

 

If anyone hasn't checked out the Park Works link above for the redesign of Perk Park, you should...pretty cool.  I think it'll make a nice change for the residents and workers in the neighborhood. 

 

If anyone has any more pics/plans for either project...put 'em up!

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It looks a little more disjointed than I had imagined, but I think once in place it could develop some additional activity east of 13th.

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Yeah, I guess I agree with Punch...I'd like to see more of a neighborhood...maybe with narrowed avenues and such.  Problem is that we'd get a bottleneck entering Downtown.  Although, that's not such a bad thing.  I wouldn't mind a little traffic slow-down as people entered this residential node of Downtown.

 

I know they talked about significant investment in streetscape improvements, so maybe the connections and neighborhood feel would come from that.

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When I read the article, I felt that it would look better than it really does.  You would need some pioneers who would want to move into that area.  Seems very incomplete as a neighborhood.  Hopefully it could stretch out to the Tower Press building and form an area with more energy.  Nonetheless, it is a great step forward for downtown. Hope that it happens.

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Tower Press is to the right. A bit too far away to show up in the diagram.  I lilke Site 3 the best.  It has a few corridors carved into the block that can make for an interesting little enclave. 

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Tower pess is between E.19 and E.21. The whole setup seems alot more disconnected now that I see a picture of it. That being said I like the site #3, it just seems more nitch-like.  It would be kinda nice to see the residential development creep along superior-payne area up to the cleveland-PD/tower press/that-church-on-payne..... and in the long run connect up with cleveland state university master plan residential development in the payne area

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i'd also like to see the development go "east-west" on superior and payne (to connect w/CSU) but hell this is a start.

 

I would like to see the WFL moved up to Lakeside.  A station at 12/13 street would be nice addition to the neighborhood, instead of ending in a fricken parking lot!!!  :x  :x  Granted these are first drafts but if you're going to build and urban neighborhood and reshape the city from its core...why not do it right??

 

Don't the Jacob's on the property East  & North East of site no. 1 as well?

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Yes, the possibilities for connectivity are wonderful...especially if we see this project built well and it succeeds.  With new housing at CSU and the market pushing more along the avenues from Lakeside to Prospect, this could really be amazing.

 

I don't know how this will look on here, but this is the neighborhood with the relationship between the E. 12th project and Tower Press.

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So far I like what I'm seeing. Anything that will induce some traffic calming on East 12th will be a good thing. I really like the "enclave" that wimwar pointed out in the Superior Block portion.

 

I think I'd like to see models or renderings before I can say anything about the other portions. Fortunately City Architecture is pretty well known for designing quality projects in urban settings (Villa Carabelli, anyone?).

 

That said, I'd like to see some enhancements to the neighborhood - specifically the demolition of the North Point Inn. I don't know if it really is a flophouse but good god it sure looks like one and does nothing but detract from the area. I also think the developers would be wise to address some basic concerns about some of the area's institutions - Cosgrove Center, Greyhound Station, the Social Services Center (can't remember the name offhand). They aren't problematic in and of themselves but there is a perception issue with them.

 

And no, if I remember correctly, the Jacobs Group no longer owns ANY of the property in the area.

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The building on Rockwell is a massive warehouse/factory.  Its actually kind of interesting because its very agglomerative.  Different parts of it look like they came from all sorts of different eras.

 

It doesn't seem that this will make too much of a neighborhood in and of itself, but it will complement the housing that is already present in Erieview, so I am happy.  It will actually make that area quite a significant residential node, imo.

 

Hopefully they'll keep taking the development east on Superior.

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The project is certainly better than all those wasteland parking lots, where downtown ends abruptly like a cliff! But I recall seeing some absolutely stunning plans for a massive redevelopment of that area, proposed by Forest City Enterprises, that was bounded by the railroad tracks at Davenport Bluffs, East 12th, East 18th area, and Payne on the south. It included building a new north-south street to be called East 15th that included an extension of the Waterfront Line, and intersected with St. Clair using a traffic circle. It was an incredibly visionary plan, and an expensive one, costing more than $1 billion.

 

I got to see detailed plans for it while I waiting for a meeting with Hunter Morrison in the mid-1990s, in a conference room in the planning department. While I waited for about 10 minutes with an associate of mine, we were left alone to sift through all these documents that showed hundreds of townhouses on the side streets, mid-rise buildings on the main thoroughfares, and 15-25 story high-rises at the west end of the development that transitioned to the skyscrapers west of East 12th.

 

When I saw the Crain's article on the "megaproject" and its price tag, I was hoping for a smaller version of the Forest City plan. Perhaps my disappointment was due to my getting spoiled from seeing what Forest City had envisioned. After the crap that happened between Mike White/Sam Miller and Kassouf over Davenport Bluffs, sometimes I wonder how much of the political mischief that goes on in this town is behind what Forest City considers to be a poor market for development?

 

Here's another example... After a planning, zoning and design review board meeting a couple years ago, in which a developer and his plan were put through the ringer by the board members, I overheard this brief interplay between the developer and then-Planning Director Chris Ronayne:

 

Developer: "You like me, don't you?"

Ronayne: "Of course I do."

Developer: "Then how do you treat the people you don't like?"

 

KJP

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Man, this really burns me up...

 

I worked for the City Planning Commission for 3 months as a planning intern in 1998 and I was thrilled to be surrounded by shelves and cupboards of archived (buried) plans from years past.  However, as the summer went on, I found the plans to be very exciting, but the discourse about them to be non-existent!  Some were two years old and had already been discarded.  Literally BOOKS of master plans.  To think about how much vision and research and production had to go into these plans, just to have them die on paper...I often wonder if I can handle coming back to Cleveland to be a planner! 

 

Presently, I have no idea where the blame should be placed, but I've heard the lot...economy, steel prices, tax law, greed, political mishaps, egos, city, state, federal...and on and on...  I want to know what makes these projects happen.  I want to know how vision becomes reality.    And I wonder how many people in our town really do care.  I know I do!

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East 15th St.? How very original.

 

I think the name later got changed in the plans to Miller Boulevard, Ratner Road, or maybe it was White Way. I can't remember.

 

KJP

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East 15th St.? How very original.

 

I think the name later got changed in the plans to Miller Boulevard, Ratner Road, or maybe it was White Way. I can't remember.

 

KJP

 

KJP, are you being sarcastic?

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Daveport Bluffs is one of biggest disappointments of 1990's city planning.  There are numerious reasons why Davenport Bluffs fell apart and, without knowing all the details, one thing to keep in mind is that when Mayor White had his heart set on a project, it almost always happens.  The Davenport Bluffs project fell apart.  Two lots on Lakeside, those lots that should have been the cream de cream lots became the CHANNEL 3 BUILDING, and the ugliest building in town, the FBI HEADQUARTERS.  The 12th street lots (the Erieview renewal lots) were sold to Jacobs (who I think owned the Tower at Erieview at the time) to become office buildings.  The City took those lots back in 2000 or 2001.  This is, to some level, at least a chance to reclaim that land. 

 

The other nice thing about that project is the already substantial presence of  residential on 12th street, with the Chesterfield, Researve Square Apartments, and Statler Arms.  Plus, word on the street is that Parkview Apts. are being converted from Section 8 to market rate condos. 

 

avedistrictresidential.jpg

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Thanks for the updated image Strangebrew...it helps pull the neighborhood together. 

 

Any word on who owns the other "potential development" sites?

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^my bad, i haven't gauged your humor just yet.......michael white blvd would have been hilarious though.....

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come on guys!  I'm stranded here in NYC and I need the goods!  I need pictures and drawings and other goodies!

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Here are some photos of the neighborhood, circa March 10th, 2005!  The location of each photo should be apparent by the file name...

 

It is SO clear that this neighborhood wants some action!!!

 

North Side of St. Clair & 12th, looking east:

NorthSideofSt.jpg

St. Clair & 12th, looking southeast:

StClair12thLookingSE.jpg

Another from that intersection:

StClair12thLookingSE2.jpg

Superior & 12th, looking southeast:

Superior12thLookingSoutheast2.jpg

Another from that intersection, featuring the Reserve Square Embassy Suites

Superior12thLookingSoutheast.jpg

Across the street from Reserve Square: the soon-to-be rehabbed Perk Park:

PerkPark2.jpg

Another view of Perk Park:

PerkPark1.jpg

Chester & 12th, looking north:

Chester12thLookingNorth.jpg

Chester & 12th, looking south towards Euclid:

Chester12thLookingSouth.jpg

Attractive building on the southwest corner of Chester & 12th:

SWCornerofChester12th.jpg

Chester & 13th, looking northeast:

Chester13thLookingNortheast.jpg

Lot not listed as "potential development site" on the southeast corner of Chester & 13th:

SECornerChester13th.jpg

 

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I guess I’m happy to see any new high-density housing development in Cleveland, PARTICULARLY DOWNTOWN, but I must be a fly in this good-news ointment because:

 

1st -- can we just finish off one neighborhood before jumping to a new one?

As KJP correctly notes, any aerial shot of the WHD, alone, shows that there is a lot more sq footage of empty surface parking than there are buildings.  And what about that huge and ugly diagonal building-less/surface lot hole extending from the corner if W. 6th & St. Clair all the way to the NW quadrant of Public Sq., 4 blocks away!  And THIS IN OUR PREMEIRE DOWNTOWN RESIDENTIAL/COMMERCIAL/ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT!!.  Excuse me, but our collective urban attention spans are about 2 minutes long.  And for all our praise of the Warehouse Dist as THE hotspot, there are only 2 new high density developments --- the Pinnacle and Crittenden Court (and THAT was built nearly 10 years ago!).  And now with the apparent demise of the Marous Bros' massive, promising District Park complex, the WHD seems in limbo right now particularly with all the new found interest in Gateway (and if a spanking new apt/condo high-rise is built on the now-a building 515 Euclid parking garage/ground retail building as is planned, it will signal (I think) a complete shift away from the WHD, which can’t be good.

 

2nd.  This development is a shadow of what the old Davenport Bluffs development would have been.  Remember Davenport?  You know, the one that was proposed under Mike White which was fought (by the Miller/Ratners I believe) and was allowed to die before we effectively walled off the lakefront from ANY attractive, high-density residential development we've always complained we lack on the lakefront at this location with those huge, ugly, people-unfriendly FBI and Channel 3 HQs?  Isn't this sooooo Cleveland???? 

 

I mean, we are so damned quick to start planning the 'next thing' (which, itself, will probably never materialize but while its flash and dash helps divert attention from all we AREN’T DOING) when our biggest obstacles to downtown sit unaddressed.  Things like: 1) the aforementioned unfinished downtown neighborhoods and the lack of plans for their development, 2) the lack of a coherent plan to lure companies and/or jobs to downtown (or Cleveland, generally), 3) the lack of a major downtown department store, 4) the stalling of the mayor's nice-but-short-on-details amorphous, long term (and I mean REALLY long term, as in  decades; a half century, even) Lakefront Redevelopment plan, 5) no cogent plan for a downtown convention center, 6) ditto, for a major new hotel which we're told can only come with #5, the lack of diversification in restaurant/entertainment downtown (like say a people-generating mega Borders/Barnes & Noble) other than bar/restaurants with lots of blue jeans, booming rock music, fried food and elevated, big-screen TV's tuned into ESPN all the time...

 

I could go on, and I’m sorry to seem so negative, but..... so, as you can see, I'm not doing back flips over this new "exciting" plan... I guess you can see why... whoopee!

 

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Thanks for the pics Mister Good Day.  It's amazing just how massive and handsome the 33-year-old Park Centre-now Reserve Sq/Embassy Suites complex is.  With the recent, once elegant Chesterfield apts across the street, we were on our way to really creating a vertical, dense Chicago-style ritzy neighborhood.  And unlike the admirable adaptive reuse of what was left in the WHD, these were all new buildings!!!!.. Now close your eyes and imagine how great this area, along w/ Playhouse Square next door would have been if we HADN'T ALLOWED Albert S. Porter to kill off the Rapid/subway extension/loop to this important downtown neighborhood that the voters had already approved.  Amazing and sad, isn't it?  It just one of many examples of how, unlike places like Chicago, Boston and Toronto, we’ve been so tremendously ill served by our “leaders” over such along period.  And the current crop shows this trend isn’t letting up.  The most reason example?  How about the most recent Whisky Island fight btw Jane and the County Commissioners (aka the 3 Stooges – the same trio swayed by the aforementioned Bert Porter to kill off the aforementioned downtown subway loop) which seems so pointless and is stalling development.

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Welcome to the forum, clvlndr.

 

I agree with some of your sentiment, but I have to respectfully disagree with some of your points.

 

"And what about that huge and ugly diagonal building-less/surface lot hole extending from the corner if W. 6th & St. Clair all the way to the NW quadrant of Public Sq., 4 blocks away"

 

Unfortunately, until we get an administration bold enough to start a 'land tax' and make it less profitable to run a parking empire, the parking lots aren't going anywhere. Besides, other than being floated as a potential site for the Federal Courts tower, I don't know of any *recent* proposals to do anything noteworthy with that site. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see something happen but without legislation, I don't see it happening.

 

"And now with the apparent demise of the Marous Bros' massive, promising District Park complex,"

 

From what I understand, it's being redesigned - if it truly has been scrapped then I might be inclined to agree. Again, this seems like a case of a lot of things working against Marous at the same time (steel prices, other projects, etc.)

 

"it will signal (I think) a complete shift away from the WHD, which can’t be good."

 

I disagree - I see the WHD as being fine along with the new interest in Gateway. The residents of each area DO cross-pollinate, so to speak. And the nice thing about East 4th and West 6th is that they're in reasonable walking (or stumbling) distance of each other. Look at the clientele of the Warehouse District - you have high-end restaurants, casual spots, nightclubs, and bars. It's a great mix and a healthy mix. It's not my first choice of nightspots but it is for just about everyone. It's healthy enough and I think it's getting stronger.

 

"Remember Davenport?"

 

Sure do - and I remember how White tried to strong-arm parts of the site away from Kassouf. It was a public relations disaster even though the White plan was far better than the Micro-tel that Kassouf suggested. Again, it's not just a matter of Zaremba saying "we want to plunk down our project on such and such site". Land acquisition is a b!tch in this town - speaking of, I've heard that the Public Square site was shopped to the committee planning the Federal Courts tower and the cost of that site was almost as expensive as the entire cost of the tower itself!!! 

 

"I'm not doing back flips over this new "exciting" plan"

 

When someone offers criticism (and thank you for keeping it constructive and informative) - I'm not asking you to do back flips, but I will ask - what are you doing?   :wink:

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Good points, MayDay, and thanks for the welcome.  I've eyed this board for a couple months now and have been attracted by the higher level of urban discussion here but haven't had time until a day off today -- so I finally decided to weigh in (btw, if I could figure out how to transfer/post my digital pictures – I’m a techno-phobe, I admit it), I've got some nice ones of Chicago from this past weekend).

 

A couple things: I know the Marous' (whom I have the utmost of confidence in) said what you said: that Dist Pk is being redeveloped b/c of construction costs; that they had robust enough presales to kick-start the project -- if it had been anyone else, I'd be more skeptical... let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

As to your point about the WHD, somewhere on an urban discussions thread I noted the history of downtown compared to where we are now (if I recall, the tread was about "critical mass" for a healthy downtown population), and that downtown living for Cleveland, since it became a major city, is brand new in our history; so anything's a plus.  Unfortunately, I take some issue w/ your slant about not being worried about the WHD.  Yes, it's the best thing we've got going downtown.  But our history of doing one thing at a time (which only under Mike White were we able to move on several projects at once), I think if we focus on Gateway, WHD will suffer.  I HOPE I'M WRONG, DEFINITELY, but...

 

Let's see.  It seems counterintuitive to think that developing one part of downtown could in any way be adverse to another part, but we are going through bad economic and political times right now (and yes, I mean Jane), and all our building projects are stagnating except for a very, very few -- like the magnificent Stonebridge on the Flats' West Bank – with its nifty, elegant little Italian restaurant overlooking the Flats – I can’t wait till warm weather when they open the bridge to alfresco dining.  I will all be watching closely to see if a condo tower can go up at 515 Euclid because that could be the linchpin in REALLY helping Gateway take off.

 

And despite the total incompetency of Miller/Ratner at Tower City -- who, I understand from Crain's is quietly hinting at getting out of TC and Cleveland RE all together --  Tower City is humming w/ the best and most diverse set of restaurants in downtown right now, and it's getting very little notice. 

 

... and what am I doing?  I write, I call and, most importantly, I patronize what's here...

 

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Mike White was able to get a lot of things done, as long as Sam Miller and FCE profited.

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The real trick is land aquasition.  The reason the Avenue District makes sense is a) existing residential density (the already mentioned complexes of Reser. Sq., Chesterfield, etc.) and b)the fact that you have a willing seller in the City of Cleveland, who needs to unload that land.  Cities issues bonds to pay for acquaistion of property (amongst other things), and when those bonds come due, they either unload the land/items to pay off bonds or renew the bonds and incure more debt.  In this case, the City probably wants to pay off the bonds on the parking lots behind Erieview and float a new bond to purchase another parking lot (say...in the gateway dist.), and start all over again.  It's backwards, but it IS the only way you are going to wrestle property away from parking lot owners. 

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"A couple things: I know the Marous' (whom I have the utmost of confidence in) ... I'd be more skeptical... let's keep our fingers crossed."

 

To be honest, I acknowledge that they have done (and continue to do) some incredible work in Cleveland. I absolutely wish them the best with all of their projects. However, I have to say it's a little disconcerting to know that the following projects are on hold (for whatever reasons): Districk Park, Battery Park, and the Rockwell Condominiums. I want them to succeed and I hope they can get those projects rolling again.

 

"But our history of doing one thing at a time (which only under Mike White were we able to move on several projects at once), I think if we focus on Gateway, WHD will suffer."

 

I see what you're saying but I think if you're worried about West 6th becoming the new East bank of the Flats, I don't see that happening. Could the Warehouse District decline? Perhaps but I think the fact that it's downtown's largest concentration of residential units will keep it from becoming a ghost town like Old River Road. Remember, what happened to the Flats happened because of a lack of mixed-uses - it was all about drinking. A LOT of drinking. Another thing, Gateway and the Warehouse District are different enough (imho) to play well off each other. Gateway is more "experience" entertainment (a la Gateway stadia, Pickwick and HOB) and residential living whereas the Warehouse District is more for club/bar hopping, dining and residential living. The Avenue District plans by themselves may not seem to work - but when you consider (as StrangeBrew pointed out) that in that same stretch you have the Statler, Chesterfield, and Reserve Square... I think that the Avenue District would add vibrancy to an area that's attempted to have a residential component but thus far has lacked.

 

"It seems counterintuitive to think that developing one part of downtown could in any way be adverse to another part, but we are going through bad economic and political times right now (and yes, I mean Jane)"

I'm not her biggest fan, but I will say that Jane is like the teacher who walks into a room full of screaming kids. She's done a good job of getting everyone to settle down enough to communicate. Unfortunately she doesn't inspire those who have communicated to get motivated to do things. And I truly think she needs to drop the niceness - it comes off as patronizing, especially when it comes to volatile situations. In other words, she needs to stop being afraid of being labeled a b!tch.

 

 

"I will all be watching closely to see if a condo tower can go up at 515 Euclid because that could be the linchpin in REALLY helping Gateway take off."

I think a lot of people are keeping their fingers crossed for that one.

 

And despite the total incompetency of Miller/Ratner at Tower City -- who, I understand from Crain's is quietly hinting at getting out of TC and Cleveland RE all together --  Tower City is humming w/ the best and most diverse set of restaurants in downtown right now, and it's getting very little notice."

My take is that Tower City was never meant to be the ultra-luxury place that it was when it first opened. However, it's ridiculous that it can't maintain mid-market status (i.e. chains that you'd find at say, Great Northern). And when I read the retail manager of Tower City Center say that J. Crew wouldn't close in spite of a location at Crocker Park? Incompetence is a diplomatic way to put it.

 

 

"... and what am I doing?  I write, I call and, most importantly, I patronize what's here..."

 

Awesome. Keep it up. And imagine the possibilities if half of the population of Greater Cleveland would follow your example  :-)

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Wow!  A lot of talk here since yesterday afternoon!  I'm glad to see it and I, of course, have lots to say in response...

 

Fortunately, I'm not the only one here who has things to say, so a lot of my points have already been made, which should make this quicker!

 

On the subject of concentration of development in one part of town hurting another part...I believe that a new building on E. 12th makes a new building on W. 6th more attractive.  And as MayDay and StrangeBrew pointed out, this E. 12th project may be possible because the land aquisition problem has been dealt with.  There's been a LOT of talk on here about the parking lots that separate the WHD from Public Square and we have all had to admit, however frustrated, that there are engrained finance issues that will need to be dealt with before a developer will be able to build on those sites.  We've all seen the pretty drawings of what the outcome would look like, but it's just sitting flat right now...so, we move on to where development is realistic at present.  And we find that we DO have a hot Downtown market that people want to build in and buy in and rent in. 

 

More on the subject...I spent two days walking around downtown last week, considering it as a place to live and go to school, and I came away with the feeling that we have several distinct and separate pockets of activity such as the Flats (east and west), WHD, Gateway, E.12th, Playhouse Square, and increasingly Cleveland State and the E. 20s by the Plain Dealer offices and Tower Press.  However, they are not contiguous!  With a development here and another there, we can sew these together to create a fabulous inner city that stretches from West 25th to the Inner Belt (East 25th or so)!  That's 50 blocks of dense urban activity...throw in a river and some bridges and a lake and hoo boy!  We've got ourselves a city!

 

The Warehouse District is not going to suffer from disinvestment.  Pinnacle, District Park (stalled, not canned!) and other proposals over there prove that.  Plus, we've got a project in the works directly adjacent to the district on the East Bank of the Flats that involves over $100 million of investment, new amenities, extended street grid and more connections to the river. 

 

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I'm incredibly optimistic...

 

And my brother, the mechanical engineer, tells me that the steel price thing will work itself out over the next couple years...I could speak to this more, but it would be stretching the subject of this thread a little too far!

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