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Cleveland: Ohio City: Development and Construction

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The Leisy Mansion. Seriously. Who decided this needed to come down? Imagine if past Cleveland city leaders were running Europe. Geezus. 

791C6481-76B4-404C-9171-8C4F4471F21B.jpeg

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Yeah, there's still a German bakery at Fulton/Clark.  It's interesting how those ethnic settlements can echo down through the ages.

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23 minutes ago, marty15 said:

There’s an old brick coach house that still exists on Vega. Usually has an American flag on it. Was that part of the complex? Maybe served the mansion? Man, it pains me to realize what this city has torn down. 

 

It doesn't appear to have been attached to the mansion- it was built on the property of another house, several down from the mansion. edit- looked again.  It and a new house were built between the 1881 and 1898 Sanborn's.  Appears to have been a fairly large house to go with it, but not as large as the Leisy mansion.

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I don’t understand the neglect and the inability to perform routine maintenance to these old buildings. If you can’t afford it, sell it. I doubt this building will last much longer. It’s in bad shape.

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39 minutes ago, marty15 said:

The Leisy Mansion. Seriously. Who decided this needed to come down? Imagine if past Cleveland city leaders were running Europe. Geezus. 

791C6481-76B4-404C-9171-8C4F4471F21B.jpeg

 

If only it was just Cleveland. It was the modernist movement. Anything with extra design frills was deemed unnecessarily extravagant and should be removed. Cleveland's stagnation during much of the modernist era allowed many buildings to survive that era. Friends from Toronto admire the many historic buildings that remain here, especially downtown. 

 

Anyway, I hope some of these historic buildings on Fulton can be saved and repurposed. 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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7 hours ago, X said:

Yeah, there's still a German bakery at Fulton/Clark.  It's interesting how those ethnic settlements can echo down through the ages.

Are you thinking of the Italian Bakery, Mazzone’s? That area of Fulton was pretty heavily Italian. The bakery is still there, along with Johnny’s, a couple pizza places, and St. Rocco’s. There was also a large Italian import store across from the bakery until I think the late 90s.

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31 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Are you thinking of the Italian Bakery, Mazzone’s? That area of Fulton was pretty heavily Italian. The bakery is still there, along with Johnny’s, a couple pizza places, and St. Rocco’s. There was also a large Italian import store across from the bakery until I think the late 90s.

 

FWIW, there's still a house near 65th and Herman where an elderly Italian lady sells 20-30 loaves of bread out of her garage daily. It's awesome

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8 hours ago, X said:

 

I just looked up the Sanborn Map of the area, and while they only give a point in time, it doesn't seem that the Leisy complex was actually laid out the way the picture shows.  The postcard looks much larger than the building ever seems to have been.  Perhaps this showed a planned expansion.

 

Also, it shows the Platform brewery building as being "Cleveland Fruit Juice Company" and "Hasek Glass Company".  Though an earlier Sanborn shows this as Leisy owned land, it only shows houses on site.  There is, of course, a large time gap.

 

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=ddb0ee6134d64de4adaaa3660308abfd

Edit- If you zoom out a bit, 1912's Sanborn pops up, and shows that the Platform Building was indeed part of the Leisy complex for a little while, at least.


Glad I wasn’t the only one who spent time last night trying to reconcile that drawing with old maps! Definitely a lot of artistic license. You can just about see some of the Byzantine (for want of a better expression) horizontal lines on the brick work of the Platform building on the Fulton side that are on the building on the left had side of the drawing, although the rest of the drawing clearly applies some grandiose scale that defies reality. 

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12 hours ago, marty15 said:

The Leisy Mansion. Seriously. Who decided this needed to come down? Imagine if past Cleveland city leaders were running Europe. Geezus. 

 

 

Like many of the Millionaires Row mansions, it was likely the family that made the decision.

 

"As was the case with many of Cleveland's huge, ornate Victorian mansions, its upkeep in later years was unaffordable, and once the last family member had moved out of the home in the 1940s, it was razed." - Brewing in Cleveland, Robert A. Musson

 

It was demolished in 1947.

 

985208625_LeisyWreck.thumb.JPG.9f53273dea051cec9fdddf71300fee3d.JPG

 

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6 hours ago, bumsquare said:

Are you thinking of the Italian Bakery, Mazzone’s? That area of Fulton was pretty heavily Italian. The bakery is still there, along with Johnny’s, a couple pizza places, and St. Rocco’s. There was also a large Italian import store across from the bakery until I think the late 90s.

 

Dammit, yes.  Wrong ethnicity!

 

edit- but isn't it interesting how sometimes instead of echoing down through the ages, ethnic enclaves simply vanish leaving little trace and no bakeries?

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16 minutes ago, X said:

 

Dammit, yes.  Wrong ethnicity!

 

edit- but isn't it interesting how sometimes instead of echoing down through the ages, ethnic enclaves simply vanish leaving little trace and no bakeries?

Although....St. Michael’s was a German catholic parish and the Sachsenheim isn’t too far away. 

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Isn't it interesting how ethnic enclaves can echo down through the ages, leaving traces of their existence, though sadly no bakeries?

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3 hours ago, Old Not Obsolete said:

 

Like many of the Millionaires Row mansions, it was likely the family that made the decision.

 

"As was the case with many of Cleveland's huge, ornate Victorian mansions, its upkeep in later years was unaffordable, and once the last family member had moved out of the home in the 1940s, it was razed." - Brewing in Cleveland, Robert A. Musson

 

It was demolished in 1947.

 

985208625_LeisyWreck.thumb.JPG.9f53273dea051cec9fdddf71300fee3d.JPG

 

"This was the largest brewery in Cleveland at its height"

"It was three times the size of Great Lakes (Brewery) right now. They were doing 600,000 barrels."

The 90,000-square-foot Leisy building, north of I-90 at Vega and Fulton, is a lingering remnant of a much larger operation. Launched in 1873 by brothers from Iowa, Isaac Leisy & Co. grew to encompass a handful of production and bottling buildings, a family mansion and a life-size statue of King Gambrinus, known as the patron saint of beer.

 

The 8-acre Leisy campus eventually was cleared to make way for Interstate 90 and other construction.

 

Per a 2015 Cleveland Plain Dealer article:

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2015/03/leisy_brewing_co_building_will.html&ved=2ahUKEwiuyJuG9u_nAhXDKewKHbBXD9gQFjAAegQIIhAB&usg=AOvVaw3DMX2mGSkTgQ_sJxzxb0uL

 

My question is with the Greif/Caraustar recycling facility being 5 acres, what is the Platform/Leisy building's number of acres? 

 

ANSWER: 

1.2 ACRES

Per Loopnet.com

 

Since the former Leisy campus was a TOTAL OF 8 ACRES...

 

EDIT:

 

AND from a 2014 Cleveland Plain Dealer article:

 

King Gambrinus, unofficial patron saint of beer, statue restoration plans under way

 

https://www.cleveland.com/drinks/2014/12/king_gambrinus_unofficial_patr.html

 

It would be REALLY NICE IF Platform Beer, Market Garden Brewery, Great Lakes Brewery, and other local brewers could MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

Edited by Larry1962
Typos and more details
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50 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

The 8-acre Leisy campus eventually was cleared to make way for Interstate 90 and other construction.

 

 

There was a part of the company on the south side of Vega where I-90 runs (Sorry for the quality of the photo)

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I hope a decent real estate developer responds to the offer on the Caraustar property. I would love to see a 10+ story building built there, just east of the remaining Leisy buildings. I hope NRP Group builds something of similar scale on the north side of the tracks on the ScrapCom property, although there's more of a neighborhood of potential NIMBYs remaining over there. If a new rail station at Fulton is to be viable, it's going to need all of the bodies it can get living and working near it. I also think it would be cool to be driving into Cleveland on Interstate 90 and see some new, decent-sized, transit-supportive buildings right along the highway.

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15 minutes ago, KJP said:

I hope a decent real estate developer responds to the offer on the Caraustar property. I would love to see a 10+ story building built there, just east of the remaining Leisy buildings. I hope NRP Group builds something of similar scale on the north side of the tracks on the ScrapCom property, although there's more of a neighborhood of potential NIMBYs remaining over there. If a new rail station at Fulton is to be viable, it's going to need all of the bodies it can get living and working near it. I also think it would be cool to be driving into Cleveland on Interstate 90 and see some new, decent-sized, transit-supportive buildings right along the highway.

 

Between the buffers of I-90, 7 sets of train tracks, 2 cemeteries, the general industry zoning, and the noise that accompanies the freight and heavy passenger rail and vehicular highway traffic, you'd think that among the existing neighborhood, even a vehement NIMBY with some sense would find some vertical residential would be a welcome sound buffer and an improvement over the unsightliness of scrap metal and recycling businesses and the public dumping and abandonment that occurs along train ave.

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35 minutes ago, KJP said:

I hope a decent real estate developer responds to the offer on the Caraustar property. I would love to see a 10+ story building built there, just east of the remaining Leisy buildings. I hope NRP Group builds something of similar scale on the north side of the tracks on the ScrapCom property, although there's more of a neighborhood of potential NIMBYs remaining over there. If a new rail station at Fulton is to be viable, it's going to need all of the bodies it can get living and working near it. I also think it would be cool to be driving into Cleveland on Interstate 90 and see some new, decent-sized, transit-supportive buildings right along the highway.

That part of Ohio City has a population that is generally much more supportive of density. 

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5 hours ago, KJP said:

I hope a decent real estate developer responds to the offer on the Caraustar property. I would love to see a 10+ story building built there, just east of the remaining Leisy buildings. I hope NRP Group builds something of similar scale on the north side of the tracks on the ScrapCom property, although there's more of a neighborhood of potential NIMBYs remaining over there. If a new rail station at Fulton is to be viable, it's going to need all of the bodies it can get living and working near it. I also think it would be cool to be driving into Cleveland on Interstate 90 and see some new, decent-sized, transit-supportive buildings right along the highway.

 There is only two nondescript houses plus a empty lot next to a nice historical livery building thats set back about 75' from Vega Avenue that sits between the Caraustar property and West 32 Street.  And therefore IF a developer buys the Caraustar property and also buys those three properties.  And then demos the two houses, they will have a total of approximately 6+ acres to REDEVELOP with townhouses, perhaps a apartment building, and also renovate the livery building as a community meeting space.  And still have enough land to provide nice landscaping and minimal amount of parking required by the city.

 

Edited by Larry1962
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15 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

 There is only two nondescript houses plus a empty lot next to a nice historical livery building thats set back about 75' from Vega Avenue that sits between the Caraustar property and West 32 Street.  And therefore IF a developer buys the Caraustar property and also buys those three properties.  And then demos the two houses, they will have a total of approximately 6+ acres to redevelope with townhouses, perhaps a apartment building, and also renovate the livery building as a community meeting space.  And still have enough land to provide nice landscaping and mimamal amount of parking required by the city.

 

I’m afraid that livery building won’t be standing much longer. Drove by it the other day. It’s about to fall down.

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2 hours ago, marty15 said:

I’m afraid that livery building won’t be standing much longer. Drove by it the other day. It’s about to fall down.

I've lived in this area for the last 8 years and from what I've seen of it, IT WILL REQUIRE a lot of reinforcements BUT it's doable...

 

Now if it historic enough to justify the expense?

 

BUT what a wonderfully community asset to save!

Edited by Larry1962
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1 minute ago, Larry1962 said:

I've lived in this area for the last 8 years and from what I've seen of it, WILL REQUIRE a lot of reinforcements BUT it's do able... 

Now if it historic enough to justify the expense?

 

BUT what a wonderfully community asset to save!

Agree. For many years I’ve passed by it and always admired it. Sad that it hasn’t been taken care of. 

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Hopefully this property gets an offer from a well-heeled developer with an interest in taking the property in a residential or at least mixed-use direction.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

Hopefully this property gets an offer from a well-heeled developer with an interest in taking the property in a residential or at least mixed-use direction.

 

With I-90 right there this would surely be the ideal prominent location for a developer to really show off. 

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But I'm fearful that someone who wants to keep it as a scrapyard, recycling center or perhaps a light-industry use will win the offer.

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Demolition permit filed today for the building where Harbor 44 will go.

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19 minutes ago, tykaps said:

Demolition permit filed today for the building where Harbor 44 will go.

More like a-bore 44! Got em

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It's amazing to see the Urban streetscape evolve at that section of Detroit. I'll never forget over 10 years ago seeing a picture of that corner from the 1960's and wondering what happened to the density. Safe to say we've found it. 

I also love the brick crosswalks, never noticed that. It's truly a great time to be a Clevelander/development enthusiast. 

Edited by ArtDecoSquirrel
Minor grammatical inconsistency
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4 hours ago, tykaps said:

Demolition permit filed today for the building where Harbor 44 will go.

Oh they are actually serious about building that design? D*mn!

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6 hours ago, marty15 said:

Fourth floor up.

D5823A94-B313-4CA7-93DD-1C6FCE5A285D.jpeg

Incredible what Snavely has done to transform that neighborhood. Someone there had a great vision.

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What's interesting is with these HUGE apartments taking up one half of a block (sometimes an entire block) going up all over the city in addition to the high-rise apartments. It seems Cleveland is building for a million again lol. I remember a study being done that stated Cleveland should focus on building for 500K people. Seems like developers are just going for the gusto instead of playing it safe. We are replacing older buildings on main thoroughfares that housed maybe 10-20 people above storefronts with apartments with 80-150 Units. I forgot where I saw the quote but they said in an article in development "Cleveland was built for 1 million people, we have a lot of room to grow" or something along those lines. I like that energy lol. Long story short, keep buildings like these coming!

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slightly off topic but still related, does anyone here know a timeline for getting FULTON put back together?  It's a mess between Lorain & Franklin.  Only southbound traffic.   Yesterday Franklin was closed at the intersection.  I'm just wondering if it will get even more torn up with utility work before eventually being repaved? 

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^Knez is doing some great stuff for this city. I know there have been some likes and dislikes with their designs, but I actually have to admit that they are growing on me. With seemingly all other developers of infill housing going with the modern look, it is nice to have a mix of more traditional infill housing to go along with the current historic stock. And the price point allows younger families to afford the city's more popular areas. I approve. Keep em coming!

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13 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

slightly off topic but still related, does anyone here know a timeline for getting FULTON put back together?  It's a mess between Lorain & Franklin.  Only southbound traffic.   Yesterday Franklin was closed at the intersection.  I'm just wondering if it will get even more torn up with utility work before eventually being repaved? 

 

You can find road repair information on the city of Cleveland web site. Fulton will be done in October.

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/10.01.2019FultonRoad

Edited by Clefan98
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30 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said:

^Knez is doing some great stuff for this city. I know there have been some likes and dislikes with their designs, but I actually have to admit that they are growing on me. With seemingly all other developers of infill housing going with the modern look, it is nice to have a mix of more traditional infill housing to go along with the current historic stock. And the price point allows younger families to afford the city's more popular areas. I approve. Keep em coming!

 

One of their developments that's still yet to be announced might be one of my favorites, due to location. It won't be in Ohio City, though. 😉 

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I've been so impressed by Knez. I like some designs more than others, but they strive to develop their buildings with the surrounding neighborhood in mind. Also, while they could be using less expensive materials, it's good to see them using DuPont branded Tyvek.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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2 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I've been so impressed by Knez. I like some designs more than others, but they strive to develop their buildings with the surrounding neighborhood in mind. Also, while they could be using less expensive materials, it's good to see them using DuPont branded Tyvek.

And they’re so under the radar. They don’t seek publicity. They just go to work. And doing some of the best in town, patching neighborhoods back together.

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^ For those who question, Knez Homes is what visionary leadership looks like.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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So can anyone cue me in on when Franklin will be open again? Unfortunately, the handful of places I have to drive to regularly all have Franklin as the most convenient route, and it's getting mildly annoying, especially considering the construction near Church and State limiting road access as well. 

 

I'm sure it's all for the good of the order, I'm just wondering. 

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14 hours ago, marty15 said:

Bo Knez is a champ

 

Feels like Cambridge, MA style density - and I like it!

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1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

So can anyone cue me in on when Franklin will be open again? Unfortunately, the handful of places I have to drive to regularly all have Franklin as the most convenient route, and it's getting mildly annoying, especially considering the construction near Church and State limiting road access as well. 

 

I'm sure it's all for the good of the order, I'm just wondering. 


Through June.

 

D01ED25F-379C-4D12-8999-26872EA8216C.png

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2 hours ago, YABO713 said:

So can anyone cue me in on when Franklin will be open again? Unfortunately, the handful of places I have to drive to regularly all have Franklin as the most convenient route, and it's getting mildly annoying, especially considering the construction near Church and State limiting road access as well. 

 

I'm sure it's all for the good of the order, I'm just wondering. 

Try living there... I can barely get out of my parking lot most days because everything is either closed or one-way. The streets are narrow as hell to begin with. Add in the one-ways, construction barriers (both literal  jersey barriers as well as massive machinery blocking the roads), gigantic potholes, and constantly changing traffic patterns... It has become a nightmare.

 

I know it will all be worth it and I can't complain too much because I am loving the progress and investment in my neighborhood. However, it is immensely frustrating that construction teams for Dexter, Church & State, and Snavely all work through rain, sleet, shine, etc. while the city's street rehab crews haven't been around in months.

Edited by BJBaes
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Construction permits submitted today for the redevelopment of the corner at Lorain and Randall where Old Fashioned Hot Dogs is closing down. I'm assuming this means demolition should start in April or May.

And an image reminder of the plan:

3928_Lorain_IMG_06.thumb.jpg.76f3371f3fec537e71d3f5dffc5d660f.jpg

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9 hours ago, tykaps said:

Construction permits submitted today for the redevelopment of the corner at Lorain and Randall where Old Fashioned Hot Dogs is closing down. I'm assuming this means demolition should start in April or May.

And an image reminder of the plan:

3928_Lorain_IMG_06.thumb.jpg.76f3371f3fec537e71d3f5dffc5d660f.jpg

I love the simplicity of this and how it fits with the surrounding buildings so well. Timeless, I'd take these over the ultra modern designs we get so often. 

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