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I do know the sale of some of those vacant lots on w.38th between the red line and 90 (which belong to the land bank) was blocked by the local councilman due to some existing interest from developers (allegedly a hotel?).  I mentioned something here about a year ago when the sale was blocked.

Edited by tj111

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Revised plans for Harbor 44 at the South East corner of Lorain and W 44th, via the Feb. 27th Landmarks Commission Agenda:

 

Case 16-061: Lorain Avenue Historic District (Demo Approved 1/25/18; Tabled 1/25/18)
L44 (Harbor 44) 4315-29 Lorain Avenue
New Mixed-Use Construction
Ward 3: McCormack
Project Representatives: Tommy Hasson, Developer; Davison Smith Certo Architects

 

image.thumb.png.9496f66b6ef8e8d5b615f1ce577eebc0.png

 

image.thumb.png.b7ab64adc47438c2cd880466cd17da97.png

 

image.thumb.png.b423384fc01a94b4ed022a2aaa77536e.png

 

 

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I can understand the desire to integrate a development into the surrounding neighborhood, but this is the least attractive design I've ever seen, especially for a new build.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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3 hours ago, KJP said:

Fulton+area+developments-labeled.jpg

 

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2020

Fulton Road deadzone to be enlivened by trails, rails & housing

 

Between Cleveland's growing Ohio City and Clark-Fulton neighorhoods is a deadzone of railroad tracks, a 10-lane Interstate highway, scrap recycling businesses and two historic cemeteries. But efforts are gearing up to pump new life into this area.

Knez Homes is seeking approvals from the City of Cleveland to build one of its largest townhome developments in the city so far. As proposed, Fulton Row Townhomes would add 58 townhouses to vacant land the west side of Fulton Road, between the 180-year-old Willet Street Cemetery and the Norfolk Southern Corp. railroad tracks. Fulton's original name was Willet.

Through an affiliate Nascent Land Development, LLC, Knez bought 2.1 acres of land in 2017 for $135,000, according to county records. The low price reflects the decades-long lack of real estate activity in this tired-looking neighborhood of aging, modest wood-frame homes, underutilized light industries, vacant houses and empty lots.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/fulton-road-deadzone-to-be-enlivened-by.html

What's really nice about this project is not only having 58 new quality townhouses BUT also that this 2 acres was a ugly AUTO JUNKYARD up until about 10 years ago when it was closed and the land cleaned up!!

Edited by Larry1962
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2 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

Revised plans for Harbor 44 at the South East corner of Lorain and W 44th, via the Feb. 27th Landmarks Commission Agenda:

 

Case 16-061: Lorain Avenue Historic District (Demo Approved 1/25/18; Tabled 1/25/18)
L44 (Harbor 44) 4315-29 Lorain Avenue
New Mixed-Use Construction
Ward 3: McCormack
Project Representatives: Tommy Hasson, Developer; Davison Smith Certo Architects

 

image.thumb.png.9496f66b6ef8e8d5b615f1ce577eebc0.png

 

image.thumb.png.b7ab64adc47438c2cd880466cd17da97.png

 

image.thumb.png.b423384fc01a94b4ed022a2aaa77536e.png

 

 

So they’re  going to demo the existing building, to build a sh*tty version of it. I’m hoping by demo, they mean interior demo of the existing building.

Edited by marty15
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The existing building isn't particularly rehabbable. Viability-wise it doesn't make sense to gut based upon the floor plan as it is multiple buildings and additions put together. There are multiple structural issues including a collapsed roof. There is extensive mold throughout the building. This may not be as flashy as the previous proposal, it is more appropriate to the historic district as long as it looks of its time and doesn't try to be faux historic.

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But that's the problem, it looks like it's the cheapest possible version of "faux historic".  It's really sad how far the design has fallen from the original.

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1 hour ago, X said:

But that's the problem, it looks like it's the cheapest possible version of "faux historic".  It's really sad how far the design has fallen from the original.

Yeah. It looks like sh*t.

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2 hours ago, Old Not Obsolete said:

The existing building isn't particularly rehabbable. Viability-wise it doesn't make sense to gut based upon the floor plan as it is multiple buildings and additions put together. There are multiple structural issues including a collapsed roof. There is extensive mold throughout the building. This may not be as flashy as the previous proposal, it is more appropriate to the historic district as long as it looks of its time and doesn't try to be faux historic.

All easily remedied. I’ll take the existing moldy building over the new trash heap that’s proposed. Seriously, what’s wrong with people? This is garbage.

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It's actually back to the original, original design 🙃 but I feel it looks worse this time around

 

This was the render that came out before the modern one posted above.

spacer.png

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These must be "affordable" residences. If that's the intent so be it. I just can't imagine rents for this building being market rate.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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Not being sarcastic at all. It will be interesting to see the dynamic that occurs when they try to develop that parcel with the "My community is not your commodity" house/building only about 100 feet to the East. 

 

My wife and I try to walk to Platform/the Plum/ Xinji / Ohio City Provisions when the weather allows, and we've gotten some really nasty and downright weird comments targeting our socioeconomic situation going past that place on at least 4-5 different occasions 

 

Of note - we typically dress in sweat pants and crewnecks we bought at BJ's... so we're not walking the dog in fancy loafers and lululemon pullovers. 

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The site plan doesn’t look like there are residences at all. It lists Sherwin Williams as the major tenant on the first floor and unspecified tenants on the floor above. My guess is that Sherwin Williams is an anchor tenant and they can’t figure out a way to pencil out the rest of the development at the density and with the uses previously shown, so they are scaling back to make it work for Sherwin 

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18 minutes ago, CbusTransit said:

The site plan doesn’t look like there are residences at all. It lists Sherwin Williams as the major tenant on the first floor and unspecified tenants on the floor above. My guess is that Sherwin Williams is an anchor tenant and they can’t figure out a way to pencil out the rest of the development at the density and with the uses previously shown, so they are scaling back to make it work for Sherwin 

Sherwin Williams said we're a conservative company so we only will put our name on a conservative building! Take it or leave it!

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2 hours ago, viscomi said:

It's actually back to the original, original design 🙃 but I feel it looks worse this time around

 

This was the render that came out before the modern one posted above.

spacer.png

 

The first two proposed were the same Architect, I believe. And this new "design" is nothing like this one.

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That site has been an unsalvageable eyesore for 20+ years and is catty-corner from one of the most ghetto gas stations in Cleveland.  If someone is willing and able to build a modest brick building that perfectly suits the existing built environment I am all for it.  And I would love a walkable Sherwin Williams.

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16 hours ago, KJP said:

Fulton+area+developments-labeled.jpg

 

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2020

Fulton Road deadzone to be enlivened by trails, rails & housing

 

Between Cleveland's growing Ohio City and Clark-Fulton neighorhoods is a deadzone of railroad tracks, a 10-lane Interstate highway, scrap recycling businesses and two historic cemeteries. But efforts are gearing up to pump new life into this area.

Knez Homes is seeking approvals from the City of Cleveland to build one of its largest townhome developments in the city so far. As proposed, Fulton Row Townhomes would add 58 townhouses to vacant land the west side of Fulton Road, between the 180-year-old Willet Street Cemetery and the Norfolk Southern Corp. railroad tracks. Fulton's original name was Willet.

Through an affiliate Nascent Land Development, LLC, Knez bought 2.1 acres of land in 2017 for $135,000, according to county records. The low price reflects the decades-long lack of real estate activity in this tired-looking neighborhood of aging, modest wood-frame homes, underutilized light industries, vacant houses and empty lots.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/fulton-road-deadzone-to-be-enlivened-by.html

 

I've updated this article with a confirmation about NRP Group and a possible new rail station on the Red Line.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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3 hours ago, viscomi said:

It's actually back to the original, original design 🙃 but I feel it looks worse this time around

 

This was the render that came out before the modern one posted above.

spacer.png

 

"Existing condition" my posterior:

 

w44lorain.png

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7 minutes ago, gruver said:

That site has been an unsalvageable eyesore for 20+ years and is catty-corner from one of the most ghetto gas stations in Cleveland.  If someone is willing and able to build a modest brick building that perfectly suits the existing built environment I am all for it.  And I would love a walkable Sherwin Williams.

 

There's plenty of places in the city (Gas USA on Scranton for example, or any one of many on St. Clair east of 65th) that make that Sunoco look suburban.

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13 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

There's plenty of places in the city (Gas USA on Scranton for example, or any one of many on St. Clair east of 65th) that make that Sunoco look suburban.

Maybe I'm prejudiced because I've been robbed there twice.

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8 minutes ago, gruver said:

Maybe I'm prejudiced because I've been robbed there twice.

 

That'll do it.

 

But I forgot the all time champ, Hanini at E. 55th and Woodland.

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So how about that possible new rail station on Fulton and transit-supportive development! 😉 

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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8 minutes ago, KJP said:

So how about that possible new rail station on Fulton and transit-supportive development! 😉 

@KJP you mention in your article that Norman Krumholz once proposed a station and accompanying apartments. Could you provide a source? That sounds really cool and I would love to learn more about it.

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I have a clipping about it in my transit news articles I've collected. So I don't a link I can share. But if you talk to people at RTA who work in planning/real estate etc., they will confirm it for you.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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10 hours ago, marty15 said:

All easily remedied. I’ll take the existing moldy building over the new trash heap that’s proposed. Seriously, what’s wrong with people? This is garbage.

Seriously?! I’ll never understand this line of thinking. You’d rather choose vacancy over something that doesn’t match exactly what you want. 

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5 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Seriously?! I’ll never understand this line of thinking. You’d rather choose vacancy over something that doesn’t match exactly what you want. 

 

I do understand that line of thinking *sometimes*.  There are many buildings which have now been repurposed beautifully that could have been demolished for junk with this line of reasoning.  Imagine if in the 60s, the Schofield had been torn down and replaced with a brutalist pile of crap instead of just being sheathed in aluminum.

 

However, this building seems pretty far gone and it's not a gem to begin with, so I'm OK with it being torn down, even if the replacement isn't great.

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10 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

Seriously?! I’ll never understand this line of thinking. You’d rather choose vacancy over something that doesn’t match exactly what you want. 

My point is, it can be rehabbed. Mold can be killed ya know? 

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8 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

 

I do understand that line of thinking *sometimes*.  There are many buildings which have now been repurposed beautifully that could have been demolished for junk with this line of reasoning.  Imagine if in the 60s, the Schofield had been torn down and replaced with a brutalist pile of crap instead of just being sheathed in aluminum.

 

However, this building seems pretty far gone and it's not a gem to begin with, so I'm OK with it being torn down, even if the replacement isn't great.

No this isn’t an Architectural gem, nor very significant in terms of historicity. Of course there’s a difference between something like the Schofield and this. And the comparison is flawed anyway because you’re talking about the 60s, I’m talking about today. Meaning, we’ve had the “benefit” of seeing the effects (social, economic and other) of leaving buildings vacant and dilapidated for long periods of time. We know what it does to neighborhoods, to communities, to property values, we know that they tend to be magnets for crime, etc. We know this already. The current state of this building is awful. It’s probably one of the most dilapidated buildings left in Ohio city and it’s an important corner because it’s almost at the border of OC and the next neighborhood and you want that seamless transition, so that development can continue to stretch down. So for some to say “I’d rather this stay like it is if I can’t get what I want” is civically irresponsible. ESPECIALLY for a building in this condition. ESPECIALLY when we know in 2020 what these type of buildings can do to the area around it.  

Edited by inlovewithCLE
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1 hour ago, inlovewithCLE said:

No this isn’t an Architectural gem, nor very significant in terms of historicity. Of course there’s a difference between something like the Schofield and this. And the comparison is flawed anyway because you’re talking about the 60s, I’m talking about today. Meaning, we’ve had the “benefit” of seeing the effects (social, economic and other) of leaving buildings vacant and dilapidated for long periods of time. We know what it does to neighborhoods, to communities, to property values, we know that they tend to be magnets for crime, etc. We know this already. The current state of this building is awful. It’s probably one of the most dilapidated buildings left in Ohio city and it’s an important corner because it’s almost at the border of OC and the next neighborhood and you want that seamless transition, so that development can continue to stretch down. So for some to say “I’d rather this stay like it is if I can’t get what I want” is civically irresponsible. ESPECIALLY for a building in this condition. ESPECIALLY when we know in 2020 what these type of buildings can do to the area around it.  

 

Did you read the end of my post?  I am fine with this building being torn down.  I only said I understand that line of thinking *sometimes*, whereas you said you *never* understand it.

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1 hour ago, marty15 said:

My point is, it can be rehabbed. Mold can be killed ya know? 

 

Yeah, but between that and asbestos it can cost more than the rehabbed building is worth.

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6 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Not being sarcastic at all. It will be interesting to see the dynamic that occurs when they try to develop that parcel with the "My community is not your commodity" house/building only about 100 feet to the East. 

 

My wife and I try to walk to Platform/the Plum/ Xinji / Ohio City Provisions when the weather allows, and we've gotten some really nasty and downright weird comments targeting our socioeconomic situation going past that place on at least 4-5 different occasions 

 

Of note - we typically dress in sweat pants and crewnecks we bought at BJ's... so we're not walking the dog in fancy loafers and lululemon pullovers. 


C’mon @YABO713 we’ve all seen you walking down the street

A96668CC-1243-4DFE-A222-FA5D4D3836DD.gif

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35 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Yeah, but between that and asbestos it can cost more than the rehabbed building is worth.

The asbestos would have to be removed regardless, wouldn't it?

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2 hours ago, marty15 said:

My point is, it can be rehabbed. Mold can be killed ya know? 

 

I don't know what you're basing that assertion on, but I can tell you from having been in the building that a full renovation of this building would be extremely expensive and not worth the investment. There are major structural issues, including a partially collapsed roof that has been like that since the former furniture store was operational. That was close to 5 years ago so I can only imagine how awful its current condition is, not to mention the damage that has done to the floor beneath it. And, as others have noted, there are no architecturally significant portions of the building and it's a hodgepodge of additions that makes working with the existing floor plan difficult.

 

As for the the previous proposals, the original concept (2016) was with a different owner/developer. They then sold it to a new developer who used the same architect for the modern retail/office proposal from 2 years ago. Between those two proposals design review had made comments about "faux historic" elements so that might have been why they went in a different direction, to a more modern proposal, back then. However, it seems that they could not get that concept to work out and have since hired a new architect and scaled down the project.

Edited by andrew0816
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26 minutes ago, Enginerd said:


C’mon @YABO713 we’ve all seen you walking down the streetimageproxy.php?img=&key=ef9124ff39d0469a

A96668CC-1243-4DFE-A222-FA5D4D3836DD.gif

 

HAHA this is good. 

 

And my comment was for no other reason than to say that I'd kind of understanding catching sh** if we were dressed like the yuppies in National Lampoons Christmas Vacation

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2 hours ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Did you read the end of my post?  I am fine with this building being torn down.  I only said I understand that line of thinking *sometimes*, whereas you said you *never* understand it.

And I explained why I said that, because the example that you used doesn’t apply in most cases in 2020

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Added another paragraph to my Fulton Road story (near the end, includes two links embedded in the story)......

 

The ScrapCom property and the new Knez development aren't the only current/former scrapyards that may be destined for new uses. CBRE, the real estate broker for the Caraustar recycling facility on the south side of the tracks at 3400 Vega Ave., is calling for offers by March 6 to acquire the 5-acre property. Brick structures on site were built starting in 1873 for the Isaac Leisy & Co. Brewery.

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/fulton-road-deadzone-to-be-enlivened-by.html

 

That Leisy brewery was amazing. That appears to Vega Avenue across the front of the image.

 

L06.jpg?itok=L_b7RK0o

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8 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Not being sarcastic at all. It will be interesting to see the dynamic that occurs when they try to develop that parcel with the "My community is not your commodity" house/building only about 100 feet to the East. 

 

My wife and I try to walk to Platform/the Plum/ Xinji / Ohio City Provisions when the weather allows, and we've gotten some really nasty and downright weird comments targeting our socioeconomic situation going past that place on at least 4-5 different occasions 

 

Of note - we typically dress in sweat pants and crewnecks we bought at BJ's... so we're not walking the dog in fancy loafers and lululemon pullovers. 

 

Attacktivism rarely ends well for its practitioners, unless they live in an very "progressive" town such as SF, Portland,  or DeBlasio era NYC.   Which Cleveland decidedly isn't.  

 

Either the development goes around them like pedestrians avoiding a particular foul pile of dog turds,  or a TG type buys the property in question at a discount and deploys the less than ethical equivalent of a pooper scooper.  

 

In a town like this, the choices are "gentrification" or sprawl and the city powers that be know this.

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

Added another paragraph to my Fulton Road story (near the end, includes two links embedded in the story)......

 

The ScrapCom property and the new Knez development aren't the only current/former scrapyards that may be destined for new uses. CBRE, the real estate broker for the Caraustar recycling facility on the south side of the tracks at 3400 Vega Ave., is calling for offers by March 6 to acquire the 5-acre property. Brick structures on site were built starting in 1873 for the Isaac Leisy & Co. Brewery.

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/fulton-road-deadzone-to-be-enlivened-by.html

 

That Leisy brewery was amazing. That appears to Vega Avenue across the front of the image.

 

L06.jpg?itok=L_b7RK0o

 

It will be interesting to see how these two approaches pan out.  NRP is mixing in "affordable" units, let's see if those are targetted towards senior citizens as sometimes happens.  Knez is a pretty urbanist bunch but they are unapologeticly sticking to "market rate", and since this is basically an urban prairie at this point there's not even a question of "gentrification".

 

Hope they did their due diligence on the land, automotive junkyards can conceal some nasty surprises.   I suspect they did. 

Edited by E Rocc
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7 hours ago, yanni_gogolak said:

The first two proposed were the same Architect, I believe. And this new "design" is nothing like this one.

 

As far a being two story, "brick" along Lorain they are. The middle proposal was the realitve oddball. 

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

Added another paragraph to my Fulton Road story (near the end, includes two links embedded in the story)......

 

The ScrapCom property and the new Knez development aren't the only current/former scrapyards that may be destined for new uses. CBRE, the real estate broker for the Caraustar recycling facility on the south side of the tracks at 3400 Vega Ave., is calling for offers by March 6 to acquire the 5-acre property. Brick structures on site were built starting in 1873 for the Isaac Leisy & Co. Brewery.

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/fulton-road-deadzone-to-be-enlivened-by.html

 

That Leisy brewery was amazing. That appears to Vega Avenue across the front of the image.

 

L06.jpg?itok=L_b7RK0o

That stretch, with another rapid stop, could absolutely explode and start a major push into Clark Fulton.

Edited by tj111
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4 hours ago, KJP said:

Added another paragraph to my Fulton Road story (near the end, includes two links embedded in the story)......

 

The ScrapCom property and the new Knez development aren't the only current/former scrapyards that may be destined for new uses. CBRE, the real estate broker for the Caraustar recycling facility on the south side of the tracks at 3400 Vega Ave., is calling for offers by March 6 to acquire the 5-acre property. Brick structures on site were built starting in 1873 for the Isaac Leisy & Co. Brewery.

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/02/fulton-road-deadzone-to-be-enlivened-by.html

 

That Leisy brewery was amazing. That appears to Vega Avenue across the front of the image.

 

L06.jpg?itok=L_b7RK0o

Platform''s production facility was part of the Leisy complex. It's a shame that the more handsome buildings are long gone.

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17 hours ago, freefourur said:

Platform''s production facility was part of the Leisy complex. It's a shame that the more handsome buildings are long gone.

AND there was a total of something like ten to fifteen buildings at one point untiil most of them was demolished in the early 1900's.

SAD...

Edited by Larry1962
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2 hours ago, freefourur said:

Platform''s production facility was part of the Leisy complex. It's a shame that the more handsome buildings are long gone.

 

I just looked up the Sanborn Map of the area, and while they only give a point in time, it doesn't seem that the Leisy complex was actually laid out the way the picture shows.  The postcard looks much larger than the building ever seems to have been.  Perhaps this showed a planned expansion.

 

Also, it shows the Platform brewery building as being "Cleveland Fruit Juice Company" and "Hasek Glass Company".  Though an earlier Sanborn shows this as Leisy owned land, it only shows houses on site.  There is, of course, a large time gap.

 

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=ddb0ee6134d64de4adaaa3660308abfd

Edit- If you zoom out a bit, 1912's Sanborn pops up, and shows that the Platform Building was indeed part of the Leisy complex for a little while, at least.

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23 minutes ago, X said:

 

I just looked up the Sanborn Map of the area, and while they only give a point in time, it doesn't seem that the Leisy complex was actually laid out the way the picture shows.  The postcard looks much larger than the building ever seems to have been.  Perhaps this showed a planned expansion.

 

Also, it shows the Platform brewery building as being "Cleveland Fruit Juice Company" and "Hasek Glass Company".  Though an earlier Sanborn shows this as Leisy owned land, it only shows houses on site.  There is, of course, a large time gap.

 

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=ddb0ee6134d64de4adaaa3660308abfd

Edit- If you zoom out a bit, 1912's Sanborn pops up, and shows that the Platform Building was indeed part of the Leisy complex for a little while, at least.

There’s an old brick coach house that still exists on Vega. Usually has an American flag on it. Was that part of the complex? Maybe served the mansion? Man, it pains me to realize what this city has torn down. 

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18 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

AND there was a total of something ten to fifteen buildings at one point untiil most of them was demolished in the early 1900's.

SAD...

 

Go on streetview and check out the amazing stonework on what appears to be one of the original structures from the brewery. You can see a little bit of it from Fulton but you can see a lot more of the original stonework from Train Avenue.

 

21 minutes ago, X said:

 

I just looked up the Sanborn Map of the area, and while they only give a point in time, it doesn't seem that the Leisy complex was actually laid out the way the picture shows.  The postcard looks much larger than the building ever seems to have been.  Perhaps this showed a planned expansion.

 

I've noticed that a lot of artist's renderings of 19th century factories, ships, etc. tend to take some drastic license with the scale of them. In the image of the brewery, the tallest smokestack appears to be the one that's still standing. If so, it wasn't that big of a factory. But it sure had some architecturally interesting buildings that I'd love to still have around today.

 

BTW, I never realized that such a large and old Bavarian enclave existed in that neighborhood. The Jewish cemetery on Fulton was mostly Bavarian settlers from the 1840s and the Monroe Street Cemetery has some of Brooklyn Township's earliest settlers buried there. Some of them were Revolutionary War veterans from Connecticut finding land in the Western Reserve state 220+ years ago. 

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