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Dayton: Ghetto Dec 04'

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This is a tour of some of Dayton's more "downtrodden" neighborhoods.  Enjoy!

 

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Dayton View

 

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Five Oaks-Riverdale

 

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That world famous chicken baby!

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MacFarlane

 

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Princeton Heights

 

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Roosevelt

 

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University Row

 

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Wright-Dunbar

 

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Westwood

 

GOTTA love that BBQ!

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^You can see those bitches from Cincinnati

 

 

Skyline

 

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"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Very nice...and I have to say, if Dayton View and Princeton Heights and Roosevelt represent the 'to in Dayton, then Dayton's got it pretty damn good...though Wright-Dunbar and MacFarlane are pretty run-down.  Are all these locations right near downtown?

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wow, very sharp photos and nice shots. yay dayton yes! this was a great job. what camera do you use?

 

for editorial:  i have to echo the others, where is the ghetto? i think that term is liberally applied on this website sometimes. most of those houses and apts were pretty sweet. it made me see again that dayton sure has a lot of nice solid old housing stock.

 

for personal:  my spouse was born and raised in five oaks. a ways closer to downtown from your first shot of that nabe, on kenilworth. i never took it for a ghetto or hood, its all nice large old homes. also, its still a racially mixed neighborhood, a rarity for dayton. so did you happen to drive thru there off main street and catch the brick gates up blocking off the streets and alleys?  it's to keep the hotrodders and drug dealers out. not pretty, but thats life and i sure don't think that makes it ghetto either.

 

 

 

 

 

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Ahem.

 

The camera is an Olympus C-720.  Though some of the neighborhoods don't look bad, that doesn't mean they are not "high in crime."  Granted, University Row is just fine (typically) but neighborhoods like Princeton Heights and Roosevelt, which may not "look" bad, ARE bad in terms of high crime rates.  Sometimes the most beautiful neighborhoods can be the most ghetto, sadly.  Re: Over-The-Rhine.

 

Secondly, there are many racially mixed neighborhoods in the city besides Five Oaks.  The entire north and south sides are racially mixed while portions of the east side are racially mixed.  It is just the west side which is predominantly black.  I used to live in Five Oaks and went to school there so I know all about Five Oaks, Kenilworth, etc.  The initial response with the gates and landscaped medians (re: dead ends) with Five Oaks and Mt. Vernon neighborhoods in the city wasn't becasuse of drug chases but literal drunk driving.  It became a drug issue when several incidents happened along Deleware Avenue (which ironically has no gates, that I know of).  While Five Oaks overall is healthier than the other neighborhoods I've shown (minus Univeristy Row), it still has portions of "ghetto" areas that are quite blighted, sadly.

 

Remember, ghetto doesn't always equate with "rundown homes."


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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well to me ghetto means blight and crime combined, not just not high crime. heck, if crime were the only criteria wall street would be usa ghetto number one. so i still think yours is a rather liberal use of the term, but thanks for clarifying our difference of opinion.

 

i did not know the five oaks gates began with a drunk driving incident, i thought someone said hotrodders and then drug dealing, but that makes sense. it's an interesting way to deal with car-related troubles and its great how the community took real visible action. many neighborhoods do not, often people just do nothing, not enough or just move out. my wife's family is friends (old neighbors) of the lady who got the gates going, i forget their names, so i'm sure they could fill me in more. i know there was a big newsweek article we read about it too when they did it.

 

as to many neighborhoods of dayton being racially mixed, i dont see that and from what people say i think its quite a problem. i dk that for sure of course that is my impression over the years and from friends and inlaws, but since you live there and are younger maybe its not really true or is changing for the better? sounds like it is. regardless, it would help if the city got some new blood and immigration as its pretty black and white. funny, thats the only negative i have about the place, otherwise i like dayton a lot.

 

also, i was looking at olympus cameras. instead i went with a mini canon sd300 elph which i just got on new years eve, so i cant wait to get that pup broken in. it's sharp and seems easy to use, but its tiny as a credit card and i dk if that is as good an idea as i thought it was!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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While Five Oaks overall is healthier than the other neighborhoods I've shown (minus Univeristy Row), it still has portions of "ghetto" areas that are quite blighted, sadly.

 

I recently helped a freind move from Five Oaks (he was relocating to Hartford, Connecticut), and got a closer look at the area after a few years (since the gates went up, mostly). 

 

Its almost a case of "good block/bad block"...some blocks or streets are in pretty good shape still, like Belmonte Park and Squirrel Avenue., are pretty nice.  The way its looking if Five Oaks is that individual units become vacant, or decline, while neighborhing houses are still kept up.

 

++++++++++++

 

Some of the other neighborhoods in those pix, like McFarlane and Wright-Dunbar, pretty much are bottoming out and you are seeing more abandonments, vacant land, and demolitions.  Though I bum-rap the Dayton area about its conservatism I have to say the City of Dayton has done some really heroic efforts in trying to arrest decline, and even rebuild a neigborhood, like they are doing at Wright-Dunbar (you can see some of the new construction in the pix) and starting to do in Lower Dayton View.

 

++++++

 

The sad thing is whats happening to the neighborhood retail buildings.  Theres' already a thread here about that spanish revival commercial block at Wayne & Wyoming.  Another one that i can see under threat in the future is the pix of that corner building with the small tower at the corner of Forest and Main, in the Riverside neighborhood.  Its one of those urban set-pieces, local landmarks, that give a character to a city and a neigborhood.  The building in the pix looks to be pretty vacant, and some interesting old apartments or rowhouses on Forest next door where demo'd  (they formed this need zig-zag facade pattern).

 

Dayton has a good example of a "save" of a neighborhood commercial landmark on a busy corner at Salem and Grand, where a fire damaged building was rebuilt as a post office, I think, but the original facade was kept.

 

++++++++

 

Yet, you can see some of the great housing stock thats still in the city. 

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In fact, I've been on house tours of those first two mansions in the Unveristiy Row heading.  They are as impressive inside as outside.

 

The second one, the sort of French Neoclassical one with the huge hip roof, has a ballroom under the roof, that I was told was once used as a dance studio. 

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It was once a dance studio for the Ohio Players, in fact.

 

Mrnyc, my definition was vague but in essence, my point was that even the most beautiful neighborhoods can be the most ghetto (go to Los Angeles).  Even the most gritty neighborhoods can be the most yuppie (see Tremont in Cleveland or Olde Town East in Columbus).  So appearance can mean something to some areas yet mean nothing at all to other areas.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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thanks yes i've been to los angeles ghetto and tremont. let me clarify, i'm not suggesting it's either/or. it's the combination of both that makes the classic ghetto. to me it takes both bleak blight and high crime to make a ghetto. not just one but both.

 

as i said, wall street and wealthy areas have loads of crime, but i would never lable them ghettos. ditto many obviously poor areas have low crime, such as rural areas. also not ghetto. imo it takes both to be ghetto, at least in the classic "1960's" sense of the term which is what i'm using.

 

also, i think from that you can see "ghetto" is certainly not limited to racial issues either. i'm reminded of actor wally shawn's comment to uber-clevelander harvey pekar when our man harvey took him on a driving tour of the city and they drove thru slavic village in the 1970's -- wally shawn remarked, "now here's something you don't see everyday, a white ghetto!"

 

see? that's why wally and harvey are two of america's most observant and funniest guys -- ha!

 

 

 

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Ghetto, to me, is a subjective definition for everyone and for me, "ghetto" is "ghetto."  It can be the most beautiful Second Empire houses in the world, if the neighborhood is "hood," it's "hood."  It isn't racial at all (as a matter of fact, one of Columbus' most "ghetto" areas is parts of Hilltop, a "white ghetto").  But oh well :).


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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historically the term and the reality of a ghetto was what i said above and was sadly crystal clear in the 60's when it came into use, but it has become much more subjective recently as the word has become very popularized (mostly via pop culture and music) and has slid into the common slang.

 

to me it will always be the 60's tag-team combo of blight and crime, not just one of them. however, i acknowledge your point cdm and the modern use of the term.

 

 

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I totally agree that the term "ghetto" isn't about race at all. One of my friends is actually from the "white ghetto" of Columbus. Toledo is the same way. We're a city with far more white people than our counterparts Detroit and Cleveland. Toledo's mix is about 25% Black, 10% Arab or Middle Eastern descent (estimated by mosque figures since the census classifies Arabs as Caucasian), 6% Hispanic, and the rest is pretty much White. The East Side is what many refer to when they speak of Toledo's ghetto. That whole part of the city is rundown and does have high crime, but it is mostly Hungarian, Irish, and German. Almost everyone west of the river talks shit about the 'Siders. I agree that the term "ghetto" gets thrown around without much detail. If you ever spend any time in the hood, you'll notice that every ghetto has a nickname that its residents call it. Sometimes this name is what the original housing development was called when the city was originally built and other times it doesn't make sense at all. Toledo's Vistula Hood north of downtown Toledo's Cherry Street got the name from the original name of Toledo. Hollywood, Toledo's ghetto west of Detroit Ave. in southwest and southcentral Toledo, got its name from God knows what. La Viva (means "The Alive One") makes a little more sense since it's the Mexican barrio of Toledo surrounding Browdway south of downtown.

 

Either way, I feel ghetto usually means a low income urban neighborhood. It doesn't always have to be high crime or extremely blighted (although that surely helps). It seems most people out in the burbs view the ghetto as this terrifying place with pushers and hustlaz on every block and a place where they'll be robbed or hassled just for setting foot in a place they don't belong. As many of us know, it's not always like that. Even some high crime hoods are filled with very friendly people just trying get by. Still, there are a lot of Americans (cough, cough, kids at OU) who view the ghetto as this urban place with a lot of black people sitting on porches, drinking 40's, and eating BBQ chicken. I swear it's because of movies like "Boyz in the Hood" and "Menace 2 Society." And about the drug dealing. I know a few people who sell yayo (coke) in the inner city, and I can't blame them. There's a lot of demand, mainly in the suburbs. I do think the inner cities are where the drug distribution is centered, but the suburbs are the main consumers of them. How many people in low income areas can really manage to pay for yay? Drugs are kind of one of America's quiet epidemics (along with STDs)  that affects a ton of people, but few people are looking to fix the problem realistically.

 

btw, there are some good pics in there.

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lol!


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Parkside is being destroyed; some of those pics are near DeSoto Bass; and Residence Park, bitch please ;)


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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No.  Detroit is a bigger Dayton ;).


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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"Where I was born ev`rything was dull and dingy

I lived in a place they called "The Inner City"

Getting ahead was strictly a no no

'Cause nobody cares what happens to the folks

That live in the ghetto

Thousands of lives wasting away

People living from day to day

It`s a challenge just staying alive

`Cause in the ghetto only the strong survive

 

Money I ain`t got none, job can`t find one

The streets raised me from a baby, ooh

Thousands of lives wasting away

People living from day to day

It`s a challenge just staying alive

`Cause in the ghetto only the strong survive

 

Broken down homes, kids strung out

They don`t even know what life`s all about

Stealin` cars, robbin` bars

Mugging, drugs, rat infested

And no one`s interested

 

Kids dodging cars for recreation

Only adds to a mother`s frustration

Break-ins, folks comin` home

And finding all their possessions gone

Oh it`s an ev`ry day thing - well well - in the ghetto

Oh it`s an ev`ry day thing in the ghetto"

 

 

 

Temptations, from the bad old days ...

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