Jump to content
KJP

Cleveland: Flats East Bank

Recommended Posts

Is the "groovy building" you speak of the one with the peace sign on top of it?

 

Also, what are the plans for the buildings along old river road?  Will these eventually be demoed as well or are they hoping for spinoff investment?  I would love to be able to buy the old Dick's last resort building and turn that into something.

 

 

Maybe a bit off topic but I saw a group of people walking around the old State Fish building a few days ago.  It appeared as if someone was showing a family around the building.  Could this have been a possible buyer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the "groovy building" you speak of the one with the peace sign on top of it?

 

Also, what are the plans for the buildings along old river road? Will these eventually be demoed as well or are they hoping for spinoff investment? I would love to be able to buy the old Dick's last resort building and turn that into something.

 

 

Maybe a bit off topic but I saw a group of people walking around the old State Fish building a few days ago. It appeared as if someone was showing a family around the building. Could this have been a possible buyer?

 

I believe Dick's is gone...demoed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm mistaken then (sorry just moved here), I meant the building right on the river where old river road crosses the rail line and across the street from where Buffalo Wild Wings used to be. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm mistaken then (sorry just moved here), I meant the building right on the river where old river road crosses the rail line and across the street from where Buffalo Wild Wings used to be.

 

Gotcha.  You may be thinking of what most recently was Calabria...or something like that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t claim to know much about construction; sheet pile, check, excavation, check, but for what? Is this for the foundation of a building or something else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont claim to know much about construction; sheet pile, check, excavation, check, but for what? Is this for the foundation of a building or something else?

 

Pretty much yes.  It is for protecting Main and the Parking lot on the East end of the site from "failing" or falling into the site during excavation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the "groovy building" you speak of the one with the peace sign on top of it?

 

I thought that was the old Have A Nice Day Cafe?

 

And it looks like they're starting the foundation work for either a garage or the E&Y building (or both) next to Main Avenue at West 10th. A 20-something story building (like what E&Y will be) would be constructed on a concrete pad perhaps 10 feet thick. Get much taller and caissons have to be used.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, what are the plans for the buildings along old river road? Will these eventually be demoed as well or are they hoping for spinoff investment? I would love to be able to buy the old Dick's last resort building and turn that into something.

 

I know the building you're referring to...its Yellow and currently has a beauty saloon in it and looks like there used to be a furniture store in there.  From the river, it looks like it might have been, at one point, a hotel b/c there are balconies off every window on every floor.

 

But I have thought the same thing...great spot for condos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes I think MayDay really doesn't have a job, and he just wanders around downtown, checking UO periodically.

 

I think the same thing... Or MayDay has a superman cape and flies through the sky from location to location...a cape with an UO logo on of course :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, what are the plans for the buildings along old river road?  Will these eventually be demoed as well or are they hoping for spinoff investment?  I would love to be able to buy the old Dick's last resort building and turn that into something.

 

I know the building you're referring to...its Yellow and currently has a beauty saloon in it and looks like there used to be a furniture store in there.  From the river, it looks like it might have been, at one point, a hotel b/c there are balconies off every window on every floor.

 

 

 

But I have thought the same thing...great spot for condos

 

Probably referring to Arhaus Furniture.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And it looks like they're starting the foundation work for either a garage or the E&Y building (or both) next to Main Avenue at West 10th. A 20-something story building (like what E&Y will be) would be constructed on a concrete pad perhaps 10 feet thick. Get much taller and caissons have to be used.

 

They are using a mat foundation for that building?  That can get expensive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, what are the plans for the buildings along old river road? Will these eventually be demoed as well or are they hoping for spinoff investment? I would love to be able to buy the old Dick's last resort building and turn that into something.

 

I know the building you're referring to...its Yellow and currently has a beauty saloon in it and looks like there used to be a furniture store in there. From the river, it looks like it might have been, at one point, a hotel b/c there are balconies off every window on every floor.

 

But I have thought the same thing...great spot for condos

 

That area, where the arhaus furniture store and watermark resaurant were, is currently being referred to by many as Sowo (south of wolstein) and EVERYONE is waiting to see what the current owners decide to do with the properties... (note currently none of those buildings are for sale)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought some of them were bought in the last few years by a guy who had an Italian last name beginning with S?


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, what are the plans for the buildings along old river road? Will these eventually be demoed as well or are they hoping for spinoff investment? I would love to be able to buy the old Dick's last resort building and turn that into something.

 

I know the building you're referring to...its Yellow and currently has a beauty saloon in it and looks like there used to be a furniture store in there. From the river, it looks like it might have been, at one point, a hotel b/c there are balconies off every window on every floor.

 

But I have thought the same thing...great spot for condos

 

That area, where the arhaus furniture store and watermark resaurant were, is currently being referred to by many as Sowo (south of wolstein) and EVERYONE is waiting to see what the current owners decide to do with the properties... (note currently none of those buildings are for sale)

 

I remember seeing something for sale in the past two weeks. It may have been that surface lot next to the Arhaus building.

 

I've heard discouraging things regarding that owner. I don't think that he really understands development or neighborhoods. I think he'd just like to put up some more restaurants and clubs--without any regard to quality or clientele.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought some of them were bought in the last few years by a guy who had an Italian last name beginning with S?

 

^^The Calabria building (the southern most one on that stretch) was sold two years ago for $800K and I think the same buyer also bought the northernmost bldg(s) on this stretch, just north of the old Watermark in 2005 out of foreclosure for $500K.  Maybe those are the purchases you're remembering (don't know the guy's name, just the entity's).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, what are the plans for the buildings along old river road? Will these eventually be demoed as well or are they hoping for spinoff investment? I would love to be able to buy the old Dick's last resort building and turn that into something.

 

I know the building you're referring to...its Yellow and currently has a beauty saloon in it and looks like there used to be a furniture store in there. From the river, it looks like it might have been, at one point, a hotel b/c there are balconies off every window on every floor.

 

But I have thought the same thing...great spot for condos

 

That area, where the arhaus furniture store and watermark resaurant were, is currently being referred to by many as Sowo (south of wolstein) and EVERYONE is waiting to see what the current owners decide to do with the properties... (note currently none of those buildings are for sale)

 

I remember seeing something for sale in the past two weeks. It may have been that surface lot next to the Arhaus building.

 

I've heard discouraging things regarding that owner. I don't think that he really understands development or neighborhoods. I think he'd just like to put up some more restaurants and clubs--without any regard to quality or clientele.

 

which is why everyone is watching and waiting. (and yes i did see the for sale sign on the empty lot at the walk a hound thing last weekend).  A lot of people are hoping he just tries to cash in by selling those places. Regardless it's going to be really interesting to see how it plays out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"That area, where the arhaus furniture store and watermark resaurant were, is currently being referred to by many as Sowo (south of wolstein) "

 

Geez. I already think these So/No-fill in the street name thing has run the course, but are we in such a gross corporate world that we now incorporate a developers name into a neighborhood name. Pardon me while I puke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Took a ride on the Goodtime III tonight for the happy hour cruise, and what do I see? Fagans demo has begun too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Arhaus Building is beautiful. I personally hope it does NOT become condos. How about some public areas?! I want to go in there. I think they should put a Dean & Deluca style restaurant market on the part of the ground floor with a Cleveland City History museum on the second and then you can put condos or offices on the top floor. I just think that a beautiful building like that should be experienced by everyone, especially since most of the others were knocked down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Arhaus Building is beautiful. I personally hope it does NOT become condos. How about some public areas?! I want to go in there. I think they should put a Dean & Deluca style restaurant market on the part of the ground floor with a Cleveland City History museum on the second and then you can put condos or offices on the top floor. I just think that a beautiful building like that should be experienced by everyone, especially since most of the others were knocked down.

 

Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a bit off topic but I saw a group of people walking around the old State Fish building a few days ago.  It appeared as if someone was showing a family around the building.  Could this have been a possible buyer?

 

I saw them doing some power washing on the building a couple days ago.

 

"That area, where the arhaus furniture store and watermark resaurant were, is currently being referred to by many as Sowo (south of wolstein) "

 

Geez. I already think these So/No-fill in the street name thing has run the course, but are we in such a gross corporate world that we now incorporate a developers name into a neighborhood name. Pardon me while I puke

 

I agree in principle, but I think they are being snarky, not serious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this and thought I'd post it.  It's written by Larry Durstin, who used to do the "Hearts & Minds" column when the Free Times was solid.  It's posted on Cleveland Current, an independent column-based website that seems to have come and gone and has come again.

---

 

Who Killed the Flats?

Larry Durstin 

 

Image In the summer of 1991, Bart Wolstein summoned then Cleveland City Councilman Bill Patmon to his corporate offices in Beachwood for a luncheon meeting to talk about various city projects. During the meeting, Wolstein led Patton to a large, scale model of the Flats East Bank, an exact and elaborate replica of the area as it was that summer.

 

Recalls Patmon: “While  I was admiring the model, Bart took the top layer off the replica and revealed a mixed use development almost identical to the current project that his son  is now  proposing. He said, ‘“This is the direction the Wolsteins  are going.’”

 

When Patmon had his meeting with Bart Wolstein, the East Bank was rolling and it was difficult to understand why anyone would want to redevelop such a gravy train. It was a nationally known party place, the second largest tourist attraction in the state of Ohio behind Cedar Point. The Flats was the downtown engine fueling Cleveland’s dramatic revival from its burning river image to designation as an All-American city. Cash registers were overflowing and many of the local business owners who had gone out on a financial limb over the previous decade to build this once dormant area into a boom town were reaping huge rewards. There appeared to be no end in sight to either the rampant revelry or the swelling profits.

 

But as we all know, there was an end to it. Within a dozen years, the bustling party haven became a virtual ghost town ready to be redeveloped in the near-exact image of Bart Wolstein’s 1991 vision. The question is: How and why did it happen?

 

If you listen to the conventional wisdom, there was a combination of factors which led to the demise of the East Bank. There was the infamous Riverfest of 1993 in which groups of roving young African-Americans allegedly descended on the scene, frightening the white families that made up the bulk of those attending, prompting the annual event to be cancelled. (It should be noted that the perception of the Flats in the African-American community at that time was that blacks were not welcome there — a perception that remained strong throughout the next decade).

 

Also, at that time the Warehouse District — just up the hill from the East Bank — was beginning to flourish, drawing a growing number of tourists and many locals who were put off by the rowdy atmosphere in some of the East Bank establishments. The Warehouse District became the place where the “adults” who had “outgrown” the Flats went to party downtown.

 

Yet, while its raucous image grew and the migration up the hill kept flowing, the East Bank was still producing a ton of money for the owners of its thriving establishments. And the biggest single owner of property on the East Bank was Bart Wolstein. Throughout the ‘90s, there was a constant buzz about the big ideas for the area being dreamed up by Wolstein. 

 

Bart was the pond’s biggest fish and he wanted the place to be more family friendly. He was going to bring in this or that national franchise and was going to change entire strips of land into something new and bold. Nary a week went by without whispers of those big plans for the wonderfully fresh entertainment district Wolstein would build to replace the still-thriving but obviously troublesome playground. Plans that were only being held back by the group of independent owners who were clinging to the status quo.

 

Mike White, Cleveland’s second-ever African-American mayor who served from 1990 to 2002, knew a thing or two about those independent owners and, it could be argued, had an axe to grind with a few them. White, who was viewed as being in the pocket of Forest City Enterprises Sam Miller, the city’s largest developer and a rival of Wolstein, reportedly was taking a lot of heat from the black community about blacks being unwelcome in the Flats and being under-represented in its work force.

 

So White decided to call a meeting with representatives of the Flats Oxbow Association, the area’s development group. According to the Association’s Executive Director, Tom Newman, here’s what happened:  “One day in early 2000 Joe Mazzola, then executive director of Flats Oxbow, and I were summoned to City Hall to see the Mayor. Two of his staff were in attendance. The Mayor zipped in, sat down and told us that he didn’t care if ‘shit piles up in the streets,’ he wasn’t about to do another thing for the Flats until he saw more black faces working in the Flats establishments . . .’and I mean the front of the house, not the back.’ This is restaurant lingo meaning hosts, hostesses, waiters, bartenders as opposed to dishwashers, sweepers and salad girls. The mayor then rose abruptly and scurried out as quickly as he had come in.”

 

With White already upset with the lack of blacks in “front of the house” positions in the Flats and the growing concern among the chamber of commerce types that the wild behavior on the East Bank was chipping away at the perception of Cleveland as an All-American town, the summer of 2000 provided the events that — many argue — sealed the area’s fate.

 

In that summer, five people drowned in the Cuyahoga River in the vicinity of the Flats. In response, White created the Flats Safety Task Force — made up of members from the city’s fire, police, building and housing departments — to address health and safety concerns in the area. To help accomplish this, the task force selected for inspections certain establishments it thought presented code enforcement violations and decided what course of action was appropriate.

 

According to White this was a strong and needed tactic to prevent more deaths and disturbances. To others, including some of the independent owners who had butted heads with White over the years, it was the unleashing of Gestapo tactics designed to drive them out of business and open the area for a big developer to swoop in and take over.

 

In February of 2001, PDU, Inc., owners of the club Heaven & Earth, negotiated to sell its club to Dazner, Inc. for $400,000 and planned on finalizing the purchase on March 5. However, at 11 pm on Friday, March 2, the Safety Task Force — led by its chairman, Robert Vilkas, Commissioner of Cleveland’s Division of Building and Housing — came to the East Bank club to inspect the premises, checked all of the patrons and found no underage violations. But Vilskas ordered Heaven & Earth immediately closed and summoned Cleveland carpenters, who had been waiting in a truck nearby, to board up the club.

 

On March 4, Danzer informed PDU that it was no longer interested in purchasing Heaven & Earth because of the raid. Due to a drastic slump in business, PDU was unable to pay its bills and eventually sold the club to Dazner in May, 2001, for the reduced price of $129,000. PDU ended up suing the city of Cleveland for its tactics and was awarded $345,000 in damages by a jury, a decision that was later appealed and overturned.

 

Several other independent clubs were subsequently raided and temporarily shut down by the task force, causing a number of these establishments to suffer severe financial hits and prompting others to abandon their businesses altogether. None of Wolstein’s properties were ever raided or boarded up. To many, the message was clear: Mike White was executing a selective campaign of harassment of the small businessmen on the East Bank.

 

By the time Jane Campbell took office in January, 2002, the East Bank was becoming a shadow of its once glorious self and the talk had already turned to what, if anything, could be done to revitalize it. Many in power agreed that it would take more than a band-aid to fix this particular development problem. The Plain Dealer editorialized against the independent owners, charging that they were slumlords, and suggesting that big ideas were needed if the East Bank was to be saved.

 

And it just so happened that the Wolsteins, though owning less than a third of the East Bank’s properties and way behind Forest City in influence with the new mayor, just happened to have a really big idea — one that is ready to come to fruition in he next few years, nearly two decades after it was put on the drawing board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... so it was really Big Bad Mike White who "killed" the Flats? ... and poor, underappreciated Jane Campbell saved them?... so much of this is rumor and hearsay.  This guy's obviously got an agenda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since this is Cleveland's oldest neighborhood, I bet as they excavate deep enough, they’re going to find some cool artifacts back from the first 100-150 years of the city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"What the blue trailers on site?  Diesel fuel tanks?"

 

Not quite sure, but this is their manufacturer:

http://www.rainforrent.com

 

"awww...where are the 2-3 pic composite panoramic shots?  those are way cool and give great persepctive"

 

They're excavating the site from west to east. Those pano shots are taken from the east, so basically you'd see nothing new except for some mounds of dirt. Oh, and this was on my lunch break, thankyouverymuch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed on wkyc.com its stated the flats development is building 2 buildings for Eaton Corp.  There wasn't an official announcement from Eaton was it, or did i just miss it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed on wkyc.com its stated the flats development is building 2 buildings for Eaton Corp.  There wasn't an official announcement from Eaton was it, or did i just miss it?

 

You know what might help a little? A link to the article....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^here's the link to that story  http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=94596

 

 

This is what gets me about the local tv news. They'll include a blip like that in their stories. That would be big news, but i don't think they get it. It is as if they don't understand the magnitude of what they are saying. If the Eaton thing is true, then that should be in the headline because it is news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any new design schemes for FEB overall? ... specfically re Eaton's campus?  (or has Eaton's failure to sign yet put a campus in question?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting back on the topic of the Flats East Bank project itself:

 

Lots and lots more earthmoving going on:

feb081208_1.jpg

 

The big "pipe" on the lower right is actually the top of a chain link fence:

feb081208_2.jpg

 

What about the big turquoise pipe sticking out of that block of concrete in the lower left of the first picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Flats: East Bank makeover well underway as former bars, clubs and restaurants cleared

 

Kim  Wendel    2 hrs ago

 

CLEVELAND -- If you blinked, you missed it. A large portion of the East Bank of the Flats is gone and the area is now well under construction for developer Scott Wolstein's $522 million project.

 

© 2008 WKYC-TV

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=94596&catid=3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, these are brilliant!!!

 

 

Missannx wrote:

The RTA stop is what lead to the downfall of the Flats. It made the place cheap and easy (just like Circus Circus) for drugs,robbery and murder (Oh my!)

8/12/2008 8:24 PM EDT on wkyc.com

 

 

deleon wrote:

Everyone is getting out of Cleveland as fast as they can so who is this going to serve? The people in the suburbs don't want any part of it and Cleveland is not now or will it ever be a destination for out of state tourism. Unfortunately, Cleveland has slipped too far to come back.

8/12/2008 6:19 PM EDT on wkyc.com

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Well people who have money to buy the condo's will take advantage. You probably can get a good deal since people ARE leaving Cleveland and the demand is low." 

 

Okay, Mr. Suburbanite.  You put your house on the market against a downtown condo and see which one sells first.  My money's on downtown :).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gone are places named Circus, Circus, Tangerine Farleys and the House of Brews.

 

Am I the only one who never realized we had a casino in the FEB?  :drunk: Has proofreading become extinct? A very informative article.  :roll:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...