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Cleveland: Global Center for Health Innovation & Convention Center

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I don't want to venture off topic about Scranton Peninsula but perhaps one could build a new 'IX center' space to consolidate NEOs convention activities.  Yeah...  Not that Hopkins-or any airport for that matter could/should plan for a $5 billion expansion but it'd be nice to have that building out of the way.

 

I really hope the powers that be encourage an international competition for the design of this complex.  It's as much a gateway to the city as Gateway and it must be more/do more for physical/psychological image of Cleveland than hold some conventions.  With a handful of buildings designed by high-profile architects in University Circle, we're forming a nice collection that can tap into another tourism demographic.

 

The late 2009 groundbreaking??? is pushing it, no?

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Just some brilliant excerpts from the comments on cleveland.com:

 

"Does this mean they will tear down The Ritz-Carlton (also owned by FCE) as well? Anyone know if they will replace it if it does come down?"

 

Nah, they'll probably have to take down the Terminal Tower as well. :roll:

 

"As for loading docks, they can be placed along the access road that runs behind the Willard Park Garage. That road presently only serves City of Cleveland employees who have private access to the road. It feeds right into the back of the Convention Center."

 

Um, no. That road serves a public parking garage which is open to anyone willing to pay the fee. City of Cleveland employees having private access? What a hoot! That space is also too narrow to use as a marshalling yard. NEXT!

 

"The site is incredibly bad, with inconvenient parking, especially for old timers."

 

And we all know how that's the core focus of a good convention center. :roll:

 

 

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A person flies from X to Cleveland, takes the rapid straight to Tower City in 15-20 minutes, goes straight to the Convention Center to check out the Med Mart, then walks outside to the Health Line which takes him directly to the University Circle hospitals.

 

Call me crazy but that sounds pretty good to me.  It...fits

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Actually, the TC site appears to be larger than some other successful centers, so with the right design, this could be a pretty good investment.

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A person flies from X to Cleveland, takes the rapid straight to Tower City in 15-20 minutes, goes straight to the Convention Center to check out the Med Mart, then walks outside to the Health Line which takes him directly to the University Circle hospitals.

 

Call me crazy but that sounds pretty good to me.  It...fits

 

You forgot to check in at the hotel then go to the convention center but other than that it fits.

 

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While TC is efficient, it would be nice if the center served the interests of citizens of the city as well.  Read the text that wraps the existing CC...

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Read the text that wraps the existing CC

 

A monument conceived as a tribute to the ideals of Cleveland ~ Builded by her citizens and dedicated to social progress, industrial achievement and civic interest ~ Patriotism Progress Culture

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O.K. so ive been watching this project since day 1.. and i am worried. I think they chose a good site.. i mean the consensus around here was that it was the second best site.. lets just say hey at least its not on E 55 or the warehouse district! SO now we got this extremely visible huge building going in downtown. my question is.. who is going to design it? who is the architect? do they know yet? is there room in the budget for anyone.. decent?

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Here is a question on hotels for those of you more in the know.  Since the center will be built behind TC, since there is little land there, and since there are two hotels already attached to TC, will a new hotel be built as part of the CC?  Everyone seemed to assume that if the CC was built at the old site, there would have been new hotels built nearby.  Is this off the board given the hotels are already attached to TC?

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I still dont understand if the Tower City estimate includes the $40 million the county would have to pay for the site (I dont believe it does)?  If not, why?

 

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Read the text that wraps the existing CC

 

A monument conceived as a tribute to the ideals of Cleveland ~ Builded by her citizens and dedicated to social progress, industrial achievement and civic interest ~ Patriotism Progress Culture

 

 

I think that is on Public Hall, not the CC... but I could be mistaken.

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I still dont understand if the Tower City estimate includes the $40 million the county would have to pay for the site (I dont believe it does)?  If not, why?

 

 

It does not, which would have actually made it more expensive than the current site.

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I still don't understand if the Tower City estimate includes the $40 million the county would have to pay for the site (I dint believe it does)?  If not, why?

 

Yes it does Willyboy. According to the GCP report acquisition estimates are as follows: TC site $40 million for 12 acres, CC site $17 million for 3 acres.

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BETTER ACCESS TO DOWNTOWN's ASSETS?

 

What assets are those?

 

I personally like the current location for it's access to downtown assets, like Public Hall, Music Hall and the Little Theatres, Browns Stadium, the Great Lakes Science Center and OUR SIGNATURE TOURIST ATTRACTION--THE ROCK HALL OF FAME.

 

Now what assets are available near Tower City?

 

 

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This may be a crazy idea, but why not build the convention center on the Scranton peninsula?  Then, connect it with a skyway over the Cuyahoga river to a new convention hotel behind Tower City?  The skyway could have movable walkways like they have at the airport. 

 

At this site, there would be more land (I think) to put the convention center on.  Also, the Scranton peninsula would be developed.

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BETTER ACCESS TO DOWNTOWN's ASSETS?

 

What assets are those?

 

I personally like the current location for it's access to downtown assets, like Public Hall, Music Hall and the Little Theatres, Browns Stadium, the Great Lakes Science Center and OUR SIGNATURE TOURIST ATTRACTION--THE ROCK HALL OF FAME.

 

Now what assets are available near Tower City?

 

 

^To answer your question: The Q (i.e. Lebron), The Jake, Tower City, the attached hotels, the Med Mart, and 4th St. For the record, I supported the current site to be chosen.

 

Now, to address concerns over the future of the mall site if/when the TC site gets developed: this site would be perfect for a potential Amtrak/Ohio Hub/Commuter rail/Greyhound/RTA terminal due to it's proximity to rail lines, the shoreway, and major downtown thoroughfares. I think it makes perfect sense. It could be Cleveland's true intermodal hub of the future. I don't have stats, facts or figures; I don't expect this to happen anytime soon (next 5 yrs), but does anyone think that this couldn't work/is a bad idea?

 

 

 

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Musky, Public Hall is part of the current convention center, along with the Music Hall.  (Wait, is music hall the right name?)

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Musky, Public Hall is part of the current convention center, along with the Music Hall.  (Wait, is music hall the right name?)

 

Yes, I know that. But there was no CC there when Public Hall was built.

 

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BETTER ACCESS TO DOWNTOWN's ASSETS?

 

What assets are those?

 

I personally like the current location for it's access to downtown assets, like Public Hall, Music Hall and the Little Theatres, Browns Stadium, the Great Lakes Science Center and OUR SIGNATURE TOURIST ATTRACTION--THE ROCK HALL OF FAME.

 

Now what assets are available near Tower City?

 

Well, namely, Tower City. And I'm really hoping all this new construction around it will help the mall since it's struggling so hard right now.

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WTAM had an interview with Fred Nance today:

http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=WillsSnyder.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/30263/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30263/1263/richmedia/8-8-Fred_Nance_1.mp3?CCOMRRMID=17926554&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=CLEVELAND-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&NG_ID=wtam1100am&OR_NEWSFORMAT=News/Talk&OWNER=1263&SERVER_NAME=www.wtam.com&SITE_ID=1263&STATION_ID=WTAM-AM&TRACK=fn1

 

Besides the promoting the easy rail access ("you could come to a convention and not even need a coat"), one thing Nance mentioned in this interview that I hadn't heard mentioned before is the speed of getting the Med Mart up in running.  The committee felt they could open the Med Mart a lot faster at the TC site since they Higbee bldg is already there and has had some upgrading.  At the CC site they'd have to design and erect the bldg from scratch which would take longer (or cost a bunch more to get done quickly).  Seems like a reasonable point.  Also implies that the MM would likely open separately from the new CC. 

 

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BETTER ACCESS TO DOWNTOWN's ASSETS?

 

What assets are those?

 

I personally like the current location for it's access to downtown assets, like Public Hall, Music Hall and the Little Theatres, Browns Stadium, the Great Lakes Science Center and OUR SIGNATURE TOURIST ATTRACTION--THE ROCK HALL OF FAME.

 

Now what assets are available near Tower City?

 

 

 

ah...yeah, you might start with Tower City, itself which is more of an attraction than Public Hall... Then, you might consider our (indoor-connected) Gateway sports complex; I'm sure the Q will serve many MM/CC-related functions.  Then, there's Public Square, hub and front door of the City.  You might have also opened your eyes and seen E. 4th Street 2 blocks to the East, and the Warehouse District, 2 blocks to the West, our 2 major hubs of downtown living, eating and nightlife.  And across the street from E.4th's entrance, is the historic and beautiful, must-see Arcade... And as for that leading Rock Hall you mentioned, Tower City has the Waterfront Line Rapid running from its basement connecting to the Rock Hall/N.Coast Harbor -- as well as stopping at the rising, potential packed Flats East Bank... (and for that matter, short Rapid hops to Ohio City/WSM, Shaker Square and Univ. Circle...

 

Hope that answers your Q. Cleburger.

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Besides the promoting the easy rail access ("you could come to a convention and not even need a coat"), one thing Nance mentioned in this interview that I hadn't heard mentioned before is the speed of getting the Med Mart up in running. The committee felt they could open the Med Mart a lot faster at the TC site since they Higbee bldg is already there and has had some upgrading. At the CC site they'd have to design and erect the bldg from scratch which would take longer (or cost a bunch more to get done quickly).   Seems like a reasonable point. Also implies that the MM would likely open separately from the new CC.

 

 

Myself and other TC advocates have been saying this from the beginning and is possibly THE best reason for TC.

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Current CC's site is just as central to all those things.  But we're rehashing the same old argument here. 

 

I wonder how much it will cost to redevelop the current Mall site.  And what is going to happen to the Music Hall?  These are big questions left unanswered by the TC proposal.

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A couple of points in response:

 

1.  Is East 4th and the Warehouse District really any further away from the existing site than a site behind Tower City? 

 

2.  Convention-goers do not use light rail.  Have a look at the cab stand outside of McCormick Place.  The train line may appeal to a few convention goers, but mainly for employees.  Attendees are usually on expense accounts and hop a cab for the quick trip to the airport.

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The more I read these, the more I realize that your average concerned citizen (like the posters on this board) are as in the dark as our politicians on the tickings of the convention business.

 

What was the last convention you attended that utilized a NBA arena as a part of its show floor?  It rarely happens due to availability of these buildings and cost-square footage ratios.  A convention that could afford the rent would not be able to find an open window of availability large enough to let them have the arena for unrestricted access without interference from a team tenant or other event.

 

What are the biggest "tourist" draws and site of many corporate parties ALREADY going on downtown?  The Rock Hall and Great Lakes Science Center ALREADY host many corporate functions and events.  It would be a natural extension to have a pedestrian tunnel/bridge and hotel complex near these venues where convention planners are going to gravitate towards anyway.  Ever drive by the Rock Hall late at night and wonder what the party going on is?  Chances are it's some boring corporate rental and not your favorite rock star hanging out.... 

 

And for those of you who insist rail access has anything at all to do with convention site selection (which it doesn't), couldn't we just drop our convention-goers out the back door to the waterfront line if we made use of the existing site?

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Convention center and medical mart at Tower City is no cause for rejoicing

Posted by Steven Litt/Plain Dealer Architecture Critic

August 08, 2008 17:21PM

 

The proposal to locate a new convention center along the Cuyahoga River, connected to a medical mart inside Tower City Center, appears to settle one of the biggest city-planning questions Cleveland has faced in decades.

 

That's good because it finally clears the way to action. If the city and county are going to build the new facilities, they should do it soon. But the Tower City location would create as many problems as it solves. It's no cause for rejoicing...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2008/08/the_proposal_to_locate_a.html

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^^ I'm going to play devil's advocate to one part of Litt's article.

 

Wouldn't the functions of the skywalks promote conventions in Cleveland in the winter...kinda like Minneapolis' many, many skywalks in their downtown protect people from the cold winds there. I know Cleveland dosen't get nearly as cold as Minneapolis in the winter, but it is certainly sees a lot of snow compared to most other American cities and it can be difficult to walk even a few blocks when the lake effect is in full gear.

 

I'm not promoting the skywalks idea (I think it's a street life killer as well), I'm just thinking FC and the county or whoever supports this blueprint will probably use the argument to promote that part of the plan.

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Medical mart's cost jumps $136 million, tax revenue estimate rises $90 million

 

Posted by Joe Guillen August 08, 2008 22:44PM

Categories: Business, Business Impact, Impact, Medical Mart, News Impact

 

Cleveland's new medical mart and convention center will cost $136 million more than advertised, and last year's sales tax increase to pay for the project will generate -- all of a sudden -- $90 million more than expected.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/medical/wide/index.ssf?/medical/wide/080908_medmart.htm

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There's still a lot of hidden infrastructure costs involved in the Tower city plan. 

 

Will the city/county need to build additional parking garages?  What are the costs of altering access roads and is the costs associated with the various tubes and tunnels part of this plan?

 

  The energy costs of a wide open exposed CC sprawling all over the place are surely higher than the energy costs of one sunk into the ground.

 

What is the life expectancy of a high rise tower?  As this CC gets tacked onto the monolithic TC will there need to be some buildings in the complex brought down in the next 20 years or so?  Are high-rises designed in the 1920s and built in the 1930s expected to last beyond 100 years? 

 

 

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^I'm no engineer but I believe with proper maintenance those buildings can last centuries.

 

 

I'm getting a little confused on who the developer would be on this project. Is it MMPI, FCE, or the county which I highly doubt?

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god i hope we never build walkways. look at charlotte. THEY KILL A CITY!

 

i think a few is ok.. kind of like subways but without the trains haha maybe if we build a mini london tube-esque system of magnetically powered people movers... :)

 

anyways im glad we dont have too many walkways. its cold in the winter.. wear a coat.

 

1. im mad forest city is not doing anything with scranton

 

2. they havent chosen a designer/architect yet. that scares me.

 

3. if this is done right its going to be a huge success for the city of cleveland. dont screw it up guys! im gonna keep my eye on this one

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1. can you blame them? The site prep and the environmental clean up costs must be huge for Scranton Peninsula. The density and price points necessary to make a profit on a SP project are probably not realistic at this point. When downtown begins to lose its surface lots to new residential, then you'll see such a project make economic sense for a developer. Too many people think that FCE is some sort of non-profit that should do whatever the public wishes. Corporations don't work that way. The directors would get sued and they'd all lose their jobs.

 

2. this is the second time that you said that it scares you that an architect has not been hired yet. Do you think that one should have been hired at this point? I think that it is premature. Once the site is finalized, then they'll going to start on design work.

 

3. amen

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That's a nightmarish thought. Take one of the city's most beautiful buildings and poke a gerbil tube into its facade

OH HELL NO!

 

Chicago has much worse weather.  If this is the plan, I hope it never gets built.

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^The walkways would never happen. What the h*ll are those guys thinking?? Some of it doesn't even make sense--connect TC to E.4th over Euclid??? Not going to happen. Spend those millions on finding a better use for the current convention center site.

 

I wish that he'd release more images of FCE's designs of the CC. The main convention space is spread out over two floors--that is the worst part of this plan.

 

Too many details are left undescribed at this point. HQ hotel?

 

I'm glad that TCE will not be increasing its retail offerings. We don't need more retail buried in this mall. Improve what you have and then let the excess demand spill into the WHD and onto Euclid and Prospect.

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