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ZGallerie at Legacy Village is closing once again this is the second time they have been at Legacy Village they just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection again on March 11, They will close 17 of their stores under restructuring

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CLEVELAND WANTS TO BAN DOLLAR STORES FROM CITY

Lawmakers say the stores have little selection of fresh foods and pay workers lower wages than grocery stores

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-wants-to-ban-dollar-stores-from-city/95-11b81231-e022-4c21-80ba-45a54985b717


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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I would be curious to see how this legislation is written.  I can't imagine something like this standing in court.

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On 4/3/2019 at 10:48 PM, X said:

I would be curious to see how this legislation is written.  I can't imagine something like this standing in court.

I searched the meeting agendas for this but couldn't find it. Maybe someone with better city council searching mojo could find it.

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35 minutes ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

I searched the meeting agendas for this but couldn't find it. Maybe someone with better city council searching mojo could find it.

You can put a cap on types of uses. The city I work for have a cap on gas stations and we have enforced it. Im sure it's been challenged in court as most cities have this. 

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You can put a cap on types of uses.  But I can't imagine that "dollar store" is going to hold up as a special type beyond general convenience retail.

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4 minutes ago, X said:

You can put a cap on types of uses.  But I can't imagine that "dollar store" is going to hold up as a special type beyond general convenience retail.

Unsure, but we did do it for loan and title stores. However said stores got around it by getting called something else in state legistlation. Money talks. 

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You can restrict activities, but those restrictions have to apply equally to businesses.  So are we going to restrict selling assorted goods for a dollar?

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While I don't know what the city's ordinance says, in order for it to pass legal muster, it can require that all stores with permits to sell grocery items must offer at least X percent of their retail display area to consumables with at least X percent nutritional value, or something like that. I don't see how the city could legally block stores from operating based on their corporate names or that they seek to offer retail items at very low prices.


"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -- Lady Liberty

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Dollar Tree and Dollar General are not even the same concept! I have never been in Family Dollar so I’m not too familiar with them. This ban makes no sense. These stores aren’t putting grocery stores out of business, they are filling a retail need that was not being fulfilled previously. Are they fine with convenient stores and drug stores selling similar products at inflated prices?

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A good (relatively short) podcast about dollar stores, and how Dollar Tree and Dollar General have decided to go in different strategic directions. 

 

 

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Speaking of Dollar General they are rolling out a new concept called DGX which is geared toward downtown urban residents. And according to design review one is slated for Reserve Square. It is a signage request from December. Does anyone know if this has opened. I don't see it listed on a location search. I mean it's not a City Target, but if Target doesn't believe in us maybe DG does. 

 

Here is a story about DGX.

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2018-jan-dollar-general-investing-in-cities-with-dgx-concept

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Not Cleveland-specific, but general context for the city:

 

"While a new report by investment firm USB estimates 75,000 more U.S. stores could close by 2026 as the shift to online shopping expands, it appears that the grocery sector continues bucking that trend."

 

https://www.nreionline.com/retail/despite-retail-apocalypse-us-grocery-store-openings-jumped-30-percent-2018

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On 4/3/2019 at 10:14 PM, KJP said:

CLEVELAND WANTS TO BAN DOLLAR STORES FROM CITY

Lawmakers say the stores have little selection of fresh foods and pay workers lower wages than grocery stores

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/cleveland-wants-to-ban-dollar-stores-from-city/95-11b81231-e022-4c21-80ba-45a54985b717

 

Dumbest idea ever.  I recall Forbes railing against the mom and pop stores on the Triv show around 2000 or so, and being tempted to call to suggest that with the clout he and his colleagues had they could start their own stores that wouldn't face the challenges the small independents do.  The dollar stores, to a degree, have managed this.

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43 minutes ago, Pugu said:

Not Cleveland-specific, but general context for the city:

 

"While a new report by investment firm USB estimates 75,000 more U.S. stores could close by 2026 as the shift to online shopping expands, it appears that the grocery sector continues bucking that trend."

 

https://www.nreionline.com/retail/despite-retail-apocalypse-us-grocery-store-openings-jumped-30-percent-2018

 

Perishability is still a factor holding back online shopping.   But also, the grocery stores have been a hell of a lot more proactive about recognizing the disdain a significant part of their customer base has for in-person shopping, especially during crowded periods.    Late hours, delivery services, pickup arrangements, and even self-checkouts are the result.

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Noticed that Sephora is going to be opening next to pottery barn at Pinecrest I assume it will be leaving Beachwood Place then.

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On 4/27/2019 at 9:48 PM, osu87 said:

Noticed that Sephora is going to be opening next to pottery barn at Pinecrest I assume it will be leaving Beachwood Place then.

 Who knows.  Sephora is like Starbucks and The Gap, they love to over-saturate a market.

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5 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I'd like a Marshalls as a worker downtown.  It'd be nice to do some shopping during lunch.


Moving the discussion here– if cities like Minneapolis can have a Target, Marshalls, Pac Sun, etc. downtown, Cleveland should be able to.

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6 minutes ago, downtownjoe said:

 


Moving the discussion here– if cities like Minneapolis can have a Target, Marshalls, Pac Sun, etc. downtown, Cleveland should be able to.

Minneapolis is the HQ of target, so I hope that they have one downtown. It would be real helpful if we had an anchor store downtown. Once we have that other retail will show up.

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Dollar General quietly moved into a storefront location at Reserve Square.

 

More info about DGX concepts.

 

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/retail/after-cautious-start-dollar-general-poised-to-invade-cities-with-its-dgx-concept-94558#ath

 

As of Fall 2018, there were only 3 in existence. Nice to see big chains investing in downtown! 

 

2609662A-EF58-4777-877E-9B8BE844B812.jpeg

Edited by downtownjoe
More info
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I for one, will accept full credit for when Target opens a store downtown 🙂 

 


 

Edited by smimes
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^ lol that is excellent -- i'll do the same -- that earns you former of the week award!

 

and that is cool news about dgx in reserve square because seriously downtown needs 99 cent stores and the like in the mix too.

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On 6/14/2019 at 10:36 AM, KFM44107 said:

Minneapolis is the HQ of target, so I hope that they have one downtown. It would be real helpful if we had an anchor store downtown. Once we have that other retail will show up.

They do--its on Nicollet Mall

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1 minute ago, YO to the CLE said:

^^Please direct Target to the old Huntington building. Or better yet, the first two floors of Sherwin Williams' fancy new tower 😜

 

A city Target, with its large low cost grocery section, in downtown CLE would take a real toll on Heinen's now.  Let alone in the Huntington Bldg.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Oxford19 said:

 

A city Target, with its large low cost grocery section, in downtown CLE would take a real toll on Heinen's now.  Let alone in the Huntington Bldg.

  

 


If your logic is correct, Dollar General X will do a number on Heinen's– we'll see. I'll be headed to Heinen's for anything meat/vegetable/fruit/prepared food related. Anything else, I'll use DGX.

Target and Heinen's have different uses. I won't abandoned Heinen's because I can buy lesser quality meat and frozen meals at Target. Anyone who already shops and spends significant amounts per week at Heinen's shops there for a reason or else they'd drive out to the OHC/Midtown for Dave's or Aldi's.

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13 minutes ago, downtownjoe said:


If your logic is correct, Dollar General X will do a number on Heinen's– we'll see. I'll be headed to Heinen's for anything meat/vegetable/fruit/prepared food related. Anything else, I'll use DGX.

Target and Heinen's have different uses. I won't abandoned Heinen's because I can buy lesser quality meat and frozen meals at Target. Anyone who already shops and spends significant amounts per week at Heinen's shops there for a reason or else they'd drive out to the OHC/Midtown for Dave's or Aldi's.

Didn't realize Dollar Stores have low cost grocery sections.  Of course some people will stay with Heinen's for meats etc but for many other items, cross the street to Target in the Huntington Bldg for pretty much anything else.

 

So downtown Cleveland is ready to add a low cost grocery store in its core, let alone across the street from Heinen's.  I'm sure Heinen's welcomes the direct competition then, since according to you, a downtown Target won't change Heinen's current competition existing in midtown, OC.  The more options the better!

 

Guess it's time to directly undercut downtown Heinen's.

Edited by Oxford19

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23 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

^just to note that the presence of a Target probably will have no effect on Heinen's. As part of the redeveloping Lower East Side in New York there's a Target and a Trader Joe's in the same building--

 

 48081602632_9f1a34248c_b.jpg 

Downtown Cleveland isn’t the lower east side. We’re not even sure if Heinens is profitable yet. Any competition or duplication of services will probably hurt. If Target was actually a possibility I’d take it any day over Heinens. Ideally both would be able to survive though. 

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Just now, JSC216 said:

Downtown Cleveland isn’t the lower east side. We’re not even sure if Heinens is profitable yet. Any competition or duplication of services will probably hurt. If Target was actually a possibility I’d take it any day over Heinens. Ideally both would be able to survive though. 

Right, cuz Heinen's took a big risk coming into downtown Cleveland and all I'm stating is that I don't know if competing with a Target is even fair to them at this point.  Currently it will take a toll on Heinen's.

 

Ideally, both would be able to survive...down the road as downtown Cleveland attracts more and more residents, visitors, and workers.

 

A Marshall's or something similar to it would work currently, provided the market is established enough for these types of retailers.

 

It's all coming in (hopefully) eventually though in the end.

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I have no idea how reliable this is, but someone told me Heinen's pulled the trigger when they thought they could earn back their investment within 2 years. In reality, it only took them 6 months. I think the downtown Heinen's is doing just fine. 

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17 hours ago, JSC216 said:

Downtown Cleveland isn’t the lower east side. We’re not even sure if Heinens is profitable yet. Any competition or duplication of services will probably hurt. If Target was actually a possibility I’d take it any day over Heinens. Ideally both would be able to survive though. 

There's a Kroger and an urban-format Target a couple blocks from each other near UC in Cincy.

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I think urban core population density is key for any type of retail, especially retail that would be in competition with one another. 

 

NYC is able to make a trader Joe and target work in the same building because NYC population density plus the amount of tourists are insane.

 

Competition in retail isn't inheritently bad. It's good for the consumers and at times for the business themselves. That's why you can drive to any wealthy suburb and see a target next to a Walmart next to a Kroger next to an Aldi. 

 

Increasing residential density and adding an influx of wealthy residents is key for urban retail. Retail wants two things: Consistent foot traffic, and shoppers with spending power. Like it or not, they don't want to cater to the mom, with 3 kids who is living off social welfare and is making $10.00 an hour at the Wendy's across the street. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, smimes said:

I have no idea how reliable this is, but someone told me Heinen's pulled the trigger when they thought they could earn back their investment within 2 years. In reality, it only took them 6 months. I think the downtown Heinen's is doing just fine. 

 

Not entirely spot on but close...

 

They budgeted for spending two years in the red... and they are profitable right now. However, the purely "grocery" section of the store is not, as of yet. Rather, the prepared foods sections essentially subsidize the rest of Heinen's for the time being, though the grocery has done incrementally better every quarter. 

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6 hours ago, Robuu said:

There's a Kroger and an urban-format Target a couple blocks from each other near UC in Cincy.

The discussion is downtown Cleveland so the comparison to UC-Clifton area of Cincy is misplaced.   

 

Is there a Kroger and City Target in downtown Cincy?   Please keep an answer to ''downtown'' Cincy and not that Greater Downtown Cincy stuff.

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4 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

Not entirely spot on but close...

 

They budgeted for spending two years in the red... and they are profitable right now. However, the purely "grocery" section of the store is not, as of yet. Rather, the prepared foods sections essentially subsidize the rest of Heinen's for the time being, though the grocery has done incrementally better every quarter. 

and Heinen's downtown has been open over 4 years now...and the ''grocery'' section of the store is not profitable, though it is improving. 

 

Without even knowing this profit info, I thought a downtown City Target, especially in the Huntington Bldg, would undercut Heinen's. A City Target would derail any potential profits for Heinen's grocery section, thereby placing more pressure on its ''prepared food'' sections to subsidize the whole location.

 

It's not a good time for a low cost grocer (Target) to open downtown at this time.  Heinen's grocery sales would tank pretty much immediately.

 

Edited by Oxford19

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