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Cleveland: Retail News

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Love the shot of 's Boardwalk there.. One of my faves... with that said - the argument that will be made on boardwalk shopping is that in bad/cold CLE winter weather, no one will come. But if front side of boardwalk stores faced water/boardwalk - and backside of boardwalk stores were also accessible via indoor passage (from casino or Tower City, etc...) then you might have something that pleases both...

 

Sure the winter season is a concern, but certainly Crocker Park has the same issues.

 

I do like your idea for both outdoor and indoor entrance options. Larger stores at every indoor mall are set up with multiple entrances so I don't see a problem there. Would make for a very nice setup. Access for smaller retail may be tricky.

 

 

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Makes you wonder.  Clearly they are willing to invest some $$$ in the place (considering their history and the bargain price they bought at), and yes the intent is to add apartments, but would they really turn the retail space 's in to rooms or apartments as well? 

I was really hoping they would come up with a concept to attract more retailers to the retail area. 

 

I can't imagine that they would or could turn the retail spaces into hotel rooms or apartments.  For one thing, they don't have any windows!

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The bigger problem is securing the access to the rooms.  Even just on the 1st floor of the Euclid side. 

 

I would imagine that this is being done more with the intent of bringing in some larger tenants to those spaces.  On the west side there are 3-5 continuous storefronts that are now empty.  Opening that space up, along with a dedicated apartment base, could entice a tenant to open shop.

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I sitting having dinner outside at Tasa when he walked by so it was a brief conversation. He said he was going on vacation today and he said to come see him when he gets back and he would give me more details.

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I can't believe nobody has said it yet!  Tiffany & Co. is coming, as expected, to the Berger location in Eaton.  I think we pretty much had established this happening but still, official word has arrived.

 

http://fox8.com/2012/07/24/tiffany-co-to-open-store-in-northeast-ohio/

 

Unfortunately I believe this means it will be a Tiffany 'lite' so to speak...

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Tiffany's new prototype store is in the 3,500-4,000 sq ft range approx, so while this 3,400 sq ft Berger space is 1/3+ smaller than Columbus, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, it is the new norm (they say due to better use of space/better inventory flow) and is supposed to have full line of goods, not the lite (non-engagement ring, etc...) version they were building a few years back in the 2,000-2,500 sq ft range.  Will require a total transformation of exterior/interior - so this will take awhile - late Summer/early Fall 2013.. They often have announced stores 9-12 months out - and no announcement yet...  Also, I'm betting that that the B Spot signage on the awning over one of Berger & Silver's windows will now have to go...

 

As it relates to the Fox8 story - Tiffany still didn't specifically confirm a store at Eton in the Fox8 comment - this is not the normal press release they send out for store announcements, which usually say something about the city, the existing customer based supporting them there, the great location they'll be in and how it will be perfect for Tiffany, etc... - and Fox8 didn't talk to the Stark folks who own the center. So this wasn't the offical Tiffany/Stark announcement, obviously - someone tipped them off and they had to say something...

 

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I was just about to post on this. In my personal opinion the clothes at Dreggers Union were too highly priced and not of high enough quality to support such prices.

 

Living downtown, I can also tell you that Dreggers had not updated their clothes much at all between the seasons (last time I went in they were still selling winter coats). There was more than one occasion when I went in looking to buy an they just didn't have what I was looking for. 

 

It is unfortunate to see them go undoubtedly, but I am still very hopeful for Downtown and E.4th in particular.

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I agree they were very pricy especially considering their demographic. I am definitely heading up there to see what they have on sale though!

 

I don't think this will affect E. 4th too terribly. I'm sure they'll have something new in there in no time.

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I was just about to post on this. In my personal opinion the clothes at Dreggers Union were too highly priced and not of high enough quality to support such prices.

 

Living downtown, I can also tell you that Dreggers had not updated their clothes much at all between the seasons (last time I went in they were still selling winter coats). There was more than one occasion when I went in looking to buy an they just didn't have what I was looking for. 

 

It is unfortunate to see them go undoubtedly, but I am still very hopeful for Downtown and E.4th in particular.

 

I agree hubz, I'm just worried that the "This proves downtown cle retail still can't work" talk will start... Not necessarily from people on this board, but others within the city. I truly hope that another non-restaurant retail option can fill that space and be successful.

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They were just too overpriced. Selling a product for double of what you can buy it for on the products website isnt right.

 

I actually hope this space is filled with a restaurant. I think Dredgers Union created somewhat of a dead space on East 4th, and I would like to see a patio take that sidewalk space instead of the awkward gap. I think Prospect and Euclid is where the retail belong. East 4th is cool as a food street, and should remain a food street IMO.

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I stopped in once. Prices were too high, selection wasn't broad enough. I'm sure a retail score could survive there. But it has to know its market and be able to adapt. I'm sure a store (Chain or not) similar to Hollister would do well there.

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To me this is really sad and pathetic. This shop was in no way over priced especially compared to shopping in any city considering much of the clothes were all designed and made in the U.S.! If this store can't survive then nothing even close will do better. It's Target or Walmart, how sad and telling for the area. Downtown is light years away from anything even remotely nice.

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I liked the clothes there, but they weren't cut for anything but the most slender and lanky of guys.  I'm not even talking about my gut, I couldn't get my slightly more than mid sized shoulders into anything on that sales floor.

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I agree its sad and pathetic.  Does everyone know why many of us here hate Crocker?  It enables folks to just chill at home and get the shoppiing done there.  Why go downtown to shop?  It makes no sense.  This was a strong store, an anchor for that neighborhood.  East 4th has to figure this one out.

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Personally I don't think it was that strong, the product mix bleh, especially in an area that has lots of young professional s living there. The product range wasn't deep enough. On top of that the article from the PD suggests the population is just too small to support this type of store just yet.

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^ Right but how expansive can they get as a start-up?  They cant roll out Banana Republic on Michigan Avenue right off the bat.  They relied on the downtown crowd and the restaurant goers to pick them up and they were failed.  Honestly, you could probably put the best retail store in the world there and it wouldnt make it...one retail shop is like an island...nobody is going downtown for one retail shop...there needs to be clusters of them to build off each other.  And wouldnt you know it, the guy associated with this place is a local fashion designer and he is lookin for work in other cities.

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I know this isnt the retail thread so I'll try to keep it to E4. It just bothers me the perceptions some have of downtown retail... Whether it be not wanting to pay to park, come downtown, etc... And It really bugs me that places such as Cincinnati and Pittsburgh (nothing wrong with those places) have the retail that they do downtown without the downtown population we do, yet experts keep claiming we need a "critical mass of 20k-25k". You would think that the E4 area would be the place to do retail at this point downtown because of the energy and foot traffic it receives. Maybe it was just Dredgers and the type of store it was. I don't know. I just hope this isn't foreshadowing for the future of downtown retail.

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Cleveland.com Link:

 

Dredgers Union store closing on East 4th Street, after year of testing retail in downtown Cleveland

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Fourteen months after opening a clothing store on East Fourth Street, two local entrepreneurs have decided to shut the doors at Dredgers Union, their attempt to revive downtown Cleveland's retail scene.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/08/dredgers_union_store_closing_o.html#incart_river_default

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Disappointing but not surprised. It seemed that though in an obvious place, DU was hidden. Most people probably didn't even know it existed. Even when E 4th was busy I never saw anyone inside. Maybe just my perception, but it just didn't seem to draw people in. I wonder if the prices were too high for "non name brand/designer" clothing. People will pay thru the roof for things even in Cleveland... But those things need a name on them. Just a thought. Still sad to see it go

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I know this isnt the retail thread so I'll try to keep it to E4. It just bothers me the perceptions some have of downtown retail... Whether it be not wanting to pay to park, come downtown, etc... And It really bugs me that places such as Cincinnati and Pittsburgh (nothing wrong with those places) have the retail that they do downtown without the downtown population we do, yet experts keep claiming we need a "critical mass of 20k-25k". You would think that the E4 area would be the place to do retail at this point downtown because of the energy and foot traffic it receives. Maybe it was just Dredgers and the type of store it was. I don't know. I just hope this isn't foreshadowing for the future of downtown retail.

 

:wtf:

 

http://www.downtownaustin.com/business/retail/

 

"Downtown Austin is booming, and retail plays a big role. Brooks Brothers 9,300 sq. ft. flagship store is located on Congress Avenue at 6th Street; Whole Foods' 80,000 sq ft. store and corporate headquarters are located at 6th Street and Lamar; the Second Street Retail District has 54 retail stores and restaurants, and the office and housing markets are on the rise. Currently 117, 425 people work in downtown. There are 9,500 residents who live downtown and 363,000 who live within a 10-minute drive time to downtown. Twelve million tourists visit the city on an annual basis. Downtown Austin has a bright future."

 

For comparison, Downtown Cleveland has 100,000 people who work Downtown, 10,500 residents and 525,000 within a 30 min commute.

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I know this isnt the retail thread so I'll try to keep it to E4. It just bothers me the perceptions some have of downtown retail... Whether it be not wanting to pay to park, come downtown, etc... And It really bugs me that places such as Cincinnati and Pittsburgh (nothing wrong with those places) have the retail that they do downtown without the downtown population we do, yet experts keep claiming we need a "critical mass of 20k-25k". You would think that the E4 area would be the place to do retail at this point downtown because of the energy and foot traffic it receives. Maybe it was just Dredgers and the type of store it was. I don't know. I just hope this isn't foreshadowing for the future of downtown retail.

 

:wtf:

 

http://www.downtownaustin.com/business/retail/

 

"Downtown Austin is booming, and retail plays a big role. Brooks Brothers 9,300 sq. ft. flagship store is located on Congress Avenue at 6th Street; Whole Foods' 80,000 sq ft. store and corporate headquarters are located at 6th Street and Lamar; the Second Street Retail District has 54 retail stores and restaurants, and the office and housing markets are on the rise. Currently 117, 425 people work in downtown. There are 9,500 residents who live downtown and 363,000 who live within a 10-minute drive time to downtown. Twelve million tourists visit the city on an annual basis. Downtown Austin has a bright future."

 

For comparison, Downtown Cleveland has 100,000 people who work Downtown, 10,500 residents and 525,000 within a 30 min commute.

 

^i'd be willing to bet that those 363k in Austin have a higher average income than the 500k in CLE's 10 minute radius.

 

Just a shame really that other cities figure it out and we haven't yet. I truly thought (and still do think) that E4 and the area surrounding it is the perfect place to spring up retail in the City. And I think the warehouse district is perfect for a Whole Foods with a condo/apartment tower on top >:) but that's for another thread :)

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I know this isnt the retail thread so I'll try to keep it to E4. It just bothers me the perceptions some have of downtown retail... Whether it be not wanting to pay to park, come downtown, etc... And It really bugs me that places such as Cincinnati and Pittsburgh (nothing wrong with those places) have the retail that they do downtown without the downtown population we do, yet experts keep claiming we need a "critical mass of 20k-25k". You would think that the E4 area would be the place to do retail at this point downtown because of the energy and foot traffic it receives. Maybe it was just Dredgers and the type of store it was. I don't know. I just hope this isn't foreshadowing for the future of downtown retail.

 

:wtf:

 

http://www.downtownaustin.com/business/retail/

 

"Downtown Austin is booming, and retail plays a big role. Brooks Brothers 9,300 sq. ft. flagship store is located on Congress Avenue at 6th Street; Whole Foods' 80,000 sq ft. store and corporate headquarters are located at 6th Street and Lamar; the Second Street Retail District has 54 retail stores and restaurants, and the office and housing markets are on the rise. Currently 117, 425 people work in downtown. There are 9,500 residents who live downtown and 363,000 who live within a 10-minute drive time to downtown. Twelve million tourists visit the city on an annual basis. Downtown Austin has a bright future."

 

For comparison, Downtown Cleveland has 100,000 people who work Downtown, 10,500 residents and 525,000 within a 30 min commute.

 

^i'd be willing to bet that those 363k in Austin have a higher average income than the 500k in CLE's 10 minute radius.

 

Just a shame really that other cities figure it out and we haven't yet. I truly thought (and still do think) that E4 and the area surrounding it is the perfect place to spring up retail in the City. And I think the warehouse district is perfect for a Whole Foods with a condo/apartment tower on top >:) but that's for another thread :)

 

I dont know Austin, but do they have Legacy Village/Crcker type "neighborhoods" that would suck people from their downtown?

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Clothing retail at this point is so risky downtown.  We can't lie, were not quite there yet for this type of store, but that doesn't mean we can't support some type of clothing retail.  The T-shirt place at the corner seems to do fairly well, and I will say my wife and I have bought stuff there.  We need to continue to build off of that, and offer fun stores that if anything at least get people inside to window shop.

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Ugh. This is NOT good. As one person said, it gives credence to the naysayers that say retail doesn't work in downtown CLE.

 

This is a damn shame. Its going to be restaurant developments as far as the eye can see for now. One person said that its basically Target or Wal-Mart for downtown. That would be an UPGRADE on our current state of affairs.

 

I think all of the reasons you guys have mentioned (high priced, too narrow of a demo, no name brand) are correct. I think all of those things had a part in why this thing didn't work.

 

Its clear to me now that if we want any meaningful retail in downtown Cleveland its going to either have to be a) retail outlet stores (something that's different than what's available in the suburbs) or b) regular retail stores that we're going to have to subsidize the hell out of in order to get and keep them downtown (a la Pittsburgh).

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I think the biggest issue was that Dredgers Union would be an amazing addition to a retail neighborhood that was already established and strong. If we had 6 or 7 fairly well known shops somewhere on Euclid or on prospect, (or in the new casino, tower city, or the Arcade!) it would get more business.

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Yes.  It seems whenever we get clothing retail downtown, it is all by itself.  Think of the stores that have come and gone in the warehouse district over the years, most recently the jeans/lounge place. 

 

I really do hope that a district emerges where these places have a chance, but likely it would need to start with places that have more mass appeal than D.U. had. 

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One of the posts on Cleve.com was correct. They NEVER had smalls.  I have many items from there only because I was one of the first to buy the two they would put out. There wasn't much turnover/newer styles either. CLE seems to be doing VERY well though, so maybe a lesser expensive store would do well there.  I really do not want to see yet another restaurant on E4th, but if that's all that can be supported for now, so be it.

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I keep wondering what you are all defining as "name brand."  What, a local boutique store is going to sell Ralph Lauren or Calvin Klien?  A place downtown tried that already and it didn't work.  It was called Higbee's/Dillards.

DU had lines that are really pretty well known by anyone that goes outside the realm of regional indoor malls, in addition to their own line that was designed here in Cleveland and produced in the US that was lauded in magazines like Details and Dwell.

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@w28th, saying that's why Higbee's/Dillards didn't work is a stretch, no?

 

Yes, like it or not, its going to take name brands to have retail work downtown. Like, REAL name brands. Brands that regular people know.

 

AND, let's be honest, most people obviously didn't give a damn about that the clothes were designed in CLE and made in America. Not enough people cared in numbers large enough to matter. Obviously. That's indisputable now.

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As I have said before, I think we need to start with retail around CSU before anywhere else.  College students spend money that they don't even have unfortunately.  And also, they seem to have more spare time then anyone else w/o kids to corral every 5 minutes. 

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Ok, I really, really hate to say I told you so, because I hate to see a local business close, but all those people who were poo-pooing me as out of touch fashion-wise, too fat to wear the clothes, too cheap to buy the clothes, anti-Cleveland and whatever else was said for me saying I thought Dredger's Union was not going to work long-term, I think perhaps those folks owe me an apology:

 

Dredgers Union store closing on East 4th Street, after year of testing retail in downtown Cleveland

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Fourteen months after opening a clothing store on East Fourth Street, two local entrepreneurs have decided to shut the doors at Dredgers Union, their attempt to revive downtown Cleveland's retail scene.

 

Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/08/dredgers_union_store_closing_o.html

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