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Cleveland: Retail News

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I dont think that there is any room for insults here, but basic voice of opinion as it pertains to the stark contrasts of the cities should be discussed.  Like it or not, Columbus is definitely the outcast between the 3 C's.  They have built up this megatropolis of suburban living with outdoor malls within the city limits  and the basic Ohioan who has never been out of Ohio thinks that this is what a city should look like.  That is fine if that is what is desired, but it the success of Easton definitely inspired Legacy and Crocker.  Obviously, we all wish that this went down differently.

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"Voicing an opinion" can bring consequences positively or negatively.  Believe it or not (no pun intended), there are ways to compare cities without "digging" on them.  For example, in this thread discussing retail, one could say "I notice in Columbus/Pittsburgh/Indianapolis/Charlotte/Bakersfield, CA that they have _____ and I feel that we could write to ____ in order to get a store like that in Shaker Square/Larchmere/W 25th/Peninsula.  Or, "In Pittsburgh, they have this thing called Southside Works which is _____ and is a good model for something in _____."  Blah blah blah, you get the point.  That's positive, constructive comparisons.

 

Where it gets negative is when people start saying:

 

Like it or not, Columbus is definitely the outcast between the 3 C's.  They have built up this megatropolis of suburban living with outdoor malls within the city limits  and the basic Ohioan who has never been out of Ohio thinks that this is what a city should look like.

 

...which is a comment that could easily be deconstructed but "not going there" is the point to begin with.

 

Again, it is natural to compare cities and that's perfectly fine.  Start down a road of "like it or not..." and it starts to get murky.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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I know you don't.  :)

 

I'm just helping folks understand that even with opinions they have to be careful on what they say.  Believe me, what you say can be taken negatively even if you don't mean it.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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The Viking Store in Legacy Village is closing

 

Awww.  That place is in the wrong place.  That store should have been a part of a showroom series of store NOT located in a retail center. 

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Suprised Viking made it through the housing crisis and closes now once people are begining to spend money on their homes again.

 

Lots of turnover at Legacy it seems, although they do fill any vacancies fairly quickly. I would gather to say that maybe 60-75% of the original tenants have since closed or been rebranded at some point.

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Suprised Viking made it through the housing crisis and closes now once people are begining to spend money on their homes again.

 

Lots of turnover at Legacy it seems, although they do fill any vacancies fairly quickly. I would gather to say that maybe 60-75% of the original tenants have since closed or been rebranded at some point.

 

The whole thing can close if you want my opinion!

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I find it comical how on Wikipedia's list of leading shopping streets you'll find Cedar. Granted I think if the stores near cedar were lining the street like Michigan Ave, there could be some conversation about adding it to that list.

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Other than their cooking school,  Viking Store is very gadget, cookware and small appliance focused, like nearby Williams-Sonoma. That I am sure made it tough to compete. Though they do show Viking appliances, and I think now sell them, for the first several years there, they I believe couldn't sell them, just show them and refer consumers to a distributor.

 

Legacy Village has had it tough... at least 1 space has never been occupied in the nearly 9 years since opening, others have taken years, including the 3+ years vacant Talbots Men's space and very visible 1.5 yr old Joseph-Beth space..

 

Much turnover.... However, not all has to do with Legacy-specific results. At one time several years ago, I do remember counting that something 12-15 original or not long after opening tenants had corporately gone out of business, shut all stores or shut huge chunks of stores.  EXPO, Old Thyme Herbs, Galyans, Z Galleries, Bombay, Bombay Kids,  Talbots Men's, Talbots Kids, Norwalk, Acorn,Sigrid Olsen, Oshkosh, Ritz Camera,  etc.... are all examples...

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^"Old Thyme Herbs"?  I want to met the banker who OK'ed that business plan. :wink:

 

I believe it was financed by Dawes Tomes Mousley Grubbs Fidelity Fiduciary Bank

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Other than their cooking school,  Viking Store is very gadget, cookware and small appliance focused, like nearby Williams-Sonoma. That I am sure made it tough to compete. Though they do show Viking appliances, and I think now sell them, for the first several years there, they I believe couldn't sell them, just show them and refer consumers to a distributor.

 

Legacy Village has had it tough... at least 1 space has never been occupied in the nearly 9 years since opening, others have taken years, including the 3+ years vacant Talbots Men's space and very visible 1.5 yr old Joseph-Beth space..

 

Much turnover.... However, not all has to do with Legacy-specific results. At one time several years ago, I do remember counting that something 12-15 original or not long after opening tenants had corporately gone out of business, shut all stores or shut huge chunks of stores.  EXPO, Old Thyme Herbs, Galyans, Z Galleries, Bombay, Bombay Kids,  Talbots Men's, Talbots Kids, Norwalk, Acorn,Sigrid Olsen, Oshkosh, Ritz Camera,  etc.... are all examples...

 

Many of these retailers are around.    I personally think the "lifestyle center" has a bad product mix.

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^^Add a few more smaller clothing stores to that list as well as the restaurant that was where Bar Louie is now and you're getting there. Heather's Heat + Flavor closed in January as well.

 

A major factor in the large turnover numbers at Legacy was this: when Legacy opened, Americans were still spending freely and building new homes, etc. Retailers were eagerly bringing new concepts to the market anxious to increase sales and profits (Home Depot's EXPO & Talbot's Men's, for example). This obviously ended pretty quickly and these new concepts had to shut their doors.

 

Also, several of the retailers at Legacy went through BK or closed lots of locations nationwide, so it wasn't anything wrong with Legacy itself (Bombay, Ritz, Galyan's acquired by Dick's, etc)

 

Even still, it has one of the only Apple stores in NEOH and is located in a one of the wealthiest areas of the state, so it will be fine.

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^^Add a few more smaller clothing stores to that list as well as the restaurant that was where Bar Louie is now and you're getting there. Heather's Heat + Flavor closed in January as well.

 

A major factor in the large turnover numbers at Legacy was this: when Legacy opened, Americans were still spending freely and building new homes, etc. Retailers were eagerly bringing new concepts to the market anxious to increase sales and profits (Home Depot's EXPO & Talbot's Men's, for example). This obviously ended pretty quickly and these new concepts had to shut their doors.

 

Also, several of the retailers at Legacy went through BK or closed lots of locations nationwide, so it wasn't anything wrong with Legacy itself (Bombay, Ritz, Galyan's acquired by Dick's, etc)

 

Even still, it has the only Apple store in NEOH and is located in a one of the wealthiest areas of the state, so it will be fine.

 

EXPO wasn't a new concept, they were trying to grow it.  Nor was Talbot's men (or baby).  Talbots went away from their core market and tried to emulate the GAP as one of the GAPs Sr. execs went there.

 

I would be happy if C&B and Apple store moved downtown.  I'm just sayin'!

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^"Old Thyme Herbs"?  I want to met the banker who OK'ed that business plan. :wink:

 

I believe it was financed by Dawes Tomes Mousley Grubbs Fidelity Fiduciary Bank

 

Funny.  We actually thought the same about Penzy's Spices, but there seem to be several now, so must be doing ok... 

* I have not actually been in one yet.

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MyTwoSense - you are right about those stores currently operating in some cases - but I did note some chains closed "large chunks of stores" - with Legacy being part of that... (not just Legacy-specific)... Here's some background:

 

- Z Gallerie closed all 4 Ohio stores (along with 21 others, 1/3 of their total stores at time) in Feb 2009

 

- Sept 2008 - Norwalk closed all company-owned stores - and then new owner came in and took over.Tthere are now some Norwalk stores open again.

 

- Oshkosh - all non-outlet "lifestyle" stores like those at Legacy were announced to close by end of 2005 when new owner Carter's took over and these didn't fit with their mix. There may now be Oshkosh stores again.

 

- Ritz Camera - 300 of 700 stors nationwise were close April 2009 - including Legacy

 

and I forgot Joseph-Beth... 5(?) of 8 J-B stores were closed in 2010 and 2011 when company went bankrupt (Charlotte and Nashville  have already been turned into Container Stores, FYI - Conatiner Store originally announced for Legacy but never built - and Legacy Joseph-Beth remains vacant)

 

-

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MyTwoSense - you are right about those stores currently operating in some cases - but I did note some chains closed "large chunks of stores" - with Legacy being part of that... (not just Legacy-specific)... Here's some background:

 

- Z Gallerie closed all 4 Ohio stores (along with 21 others, 1/3 of their total stores at time) in Feb 2009

 

- Sept 2008 - Norwalk closed all company-owned stores - and then new owner came in and took over.Tthere are now some Norwalk stores open again.

 

- Oshkosh - all non-outlet "lifestyle" stores like those at Legacy were announced to close by end of 2005 when new owner Carter's took over and these didn't fit with their mix. There may now be Oshkosh stores again.

 

- Ritz Camera - 300 of 700 stors nationwise were close April 2009 - including Legacy

 

and I forgot Joseph-Beth... 5(?) of 8 J-B stores were closed in 2010 and 2011 when company went bankrupt (Charlotte and Nashville  have already been turned into Container Stores, FYI - Conatiner Store originally announced for Legacy but never built - and Legacy Joseph-Beth remains vacant)

 

-

 

I know all that lol.  Trust me, I'm a retail whore! :wink2:

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Old Thyme Herbs was a natural fragrance/soap type store - not Penzey's/cooking type store...

 

Legacy's issue has been that, with Beachwood Place nearby, many of the big draws - like abercrombie, J Crew, Banana Republic, Pottery Barn, W=S. etc  were already across the street - and secondary retailers, retailers with many locations (Jos Bank) - or upscale retailers with strong followers, but limited interest from most consumers -(( Lilly Pulitzer) were the ones left.  This was never going to be a draw like Crocker is to the west side.

 

Couple that with all the closings noted due to chains going out of biz or closing large groupings of stores - and you're left with basically a home goods/furniture and restaurant destination now. This does not bring browsing crowds or hang out crowds like Crocker Park. But with so many retailer skipping NEO - as I outlined last week - it would seem there are many opportunities.  Just needs to happen before more retailers go... I think I can guess which ones are next.

 

Always thought Legacy would be perfect place for an upscale (Cine Arts, etc...) movie theater... as there is no east burbs cineplex of note at this point (like Valley View or Crocker Park)... Great combo with the many restaurants - they'd feed off each other.

 

don't know what they do now... They'll say they are 90% leased, etc.. - but that's total space, not storefronts... Empty storefronts hurt/deter...

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MyTwoSense - you are right about those stores currently operating in some cases - but I did note some chains closed "large chunks of stores" - with Legacy being part of that... (not just Legacy-specific)... Here's some background:

 

- Z Gallerie closed all 4 Ohio stores (along with 21 others, 1/3 of their total stores at time) in Feb 2009

 

- Sept 2008 - Norwalk closed all company-owned stores - and then new owner came in and took over.Tthere are now some Norwalk stores open again.

 

- Oshkosh - all non-outlet "lifestyle" stores like those at Legacy were announced to close by end of 2005 when new owner Carter's took over and these didn't fit with their mix. There may now be Oshkosh stores again.

 

- Ritz Camera - 300 of 700 stors nationwise were close April 2009 - including Legacy

 

and I forgot Joseph-Beth... 5(?) of 8 J-B stores were closed in 2010 and 2011 when company went bankrupt (Charlotte and Nashville  have already been turned into Container Stores, FYI - Conatiner Store originally announced for Legacy but never built - and Legacy Joseph-Beth remains vacant)

 

-

 

I know all that lol.  Trust me, I'm a retail whore! :wink2:

 

Yes we know  :roll:

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MyTwoSense - you are right about those stores currently operating in some cases - but I did note some chains closed "large chunks of stores" - with Legacy being part of that... (not just Legacy-specific)... Here's some background:

 

- Z Gallerie closed all 4 Ohio stores (along with 21 others, 1/3 of their total stores at time) in Feb 2009

 

- Sept 2008 - Norwalk closed all company-owned stores - and then new owner came in and took over.Tthere are now some Norwalk stores open again.

 

- Oshkosh - all non-outlet "lifestyle" stores like those at Legacy were announced to close by end of 2005 when new owner Carter's took over and these didn't fit with their mix. There may now be Oshkosh stores again.

 

- Ritz Camera - 300 of 700 stors nationwise were close April 2009 - including Legacy

 

and I forgot Joseph-Beth... 5(?) of 8 J-B stores were closed in 2010 and 2011 when company went bankrupt (Charlotte and Nashville  have already been turned into Container Stores, FYI - Conatiner Store originally announced for Legacy but never built - and Legacy Joseph-Beth remains vacant)

 

-

 

I know all that lol.  Trust me, I'm a retail whore! :wink2:

 

Yes we know  ::)

698491ae-1-1.jpg

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By far the coolest Cleveland retail idea I've seen in a long while was someone in this thread (or the Tower City thread) suggesting an LL Bean in the back of Tower City with actual river frontage for kayak sales.  That would be amazing and, I'd guess, a bit of a regional draw for the novelty alone.

 

 

now there is one outstanding, doable and unique idea -- bean or rei. it would be a definate instant draw.

 

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By far the coolest Cleveland retail idea I've seen in a long while was someone in this thread (or the Tower City thread) suggesting an LL Bean in the back of Tower City with actual river frontage for kayak sales.  That would be amazing and, I'd guess, a bit of a regional draw for the novelty alone.

 

 

now there is one outstanding, doable and unique idea -- bean or rei. it would be a definate instant draw.

 

Add in a man made rapids run and you really have a draw!

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If there has to be some kind of Cineplex, why not update TOWER CITY CINEMAS!  I would think the success of the film festival and the other attractions downtown would be reasons to do this.

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A megaplex has its kind of movies and its kind of customers and the Cedar-Lee has theirs.  The kind of upscale 5-6 screen theaters w/food delivered to seats, etc... - showing popular films - not generally the Cedar Lee variety film - is something missing here, but doing well elsewhere. Why not one on the east side.  Not sure why the east side can't have its version of Crocker Park or Valley View theaters - to see The Avengers, Batman, etc... (not Cedar Lee type movies) in stadium seating/comfort. On the east side,we're stuck with blah old-fashioned (not in a good or historic way) theaters - most owned by the Cedar-Lee folks (Cleveland Cinemas) like ours here in Chagrin Falls, or Solon, or the Phoenix on the back side of Eastgate, etc... Yuck. 

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Richmond/Severance - interesting in that the rest of the shopping/dining focus on the east side is focused quite a bit S/SE of those - in movieless void. Megaplex at Harvard/271 was rumored.. I'd take it..

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Speaking of Harvard/271- the last restaurant pad in retail center with Bed Bath & Beyond, DSW - is announced - a (yuck) Buffalo Wild Wings... Unfortunate, as a Roy's was originally announced for that spot pre-9/11,  Fingers crossed for an REI in old Filene's Bsmnt.

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  The kind of upscale 5-6 screen theaters w/food delivered to seats, etc... - showing popular films - not generally the Cedar Lee variety film - is something missing here, but doing well elsewhere.

 

Been waiting for one of these to pop up ever since discovering the Alamo Drafthouse www.drafthouse.com/.  Seems like the perfect venture for the Pickwick and Frolic people.  It's just something that people could pull off terribly very easily.

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I didn't know Heather's Heat & Flavor had closed but I'm not surprised. I went out there a few months ago with my Mom specifically to purchase a gift to send to an out of state friend and they couldn't have been less interested in providing any customer service to us, even when we asked questions.

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This came over from the The Perfect Vacation to Cleveland, Ohio....What Would You Suggest? Thread

 

What Cleveland needs is a trendy shopping district like Soho where you can get goods from national chains as well as NYC warehouse style places where you can get goods for cheap. have the district interlaced with restaurants, and souvenir shops. The area along Payne and Superior Avenue between 17th and I-90 could be a good place for that. That could be a huge regional draw.

 

I know that none of you will believe I'm typing this, but I completely disagree! As much as I want high end retail, that isn't going to work.....today.

 

We do not need a "district" just because NYC or some other city/place has one.  We need good urban planning and mixed use spaces similar to what has taken place in Center City Philadelphia (look at Chestnut, Samson & Walnut Sts between 13 & 18 streets).  High, Huron, Prospect, Euclid, West 3, West 6 & West 9 are all prime for various types of everyday to luxury boutiques.  Tower City is the perfect anchor to all of that.

 

We must have the basics covered before trying to create artificial shopping districts that would only cater to a small segment of the population and I suspect would be tourist driven.

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This came over from the The Perfect Vacation to Cleveland, Ohio....What Would You Suggest? Thread

 

What Cleveland needs is a trendy shopping district like Soho where you can get goods from national chains as well as NYC warehouse style places where you can get goods for cheap. have the district interlaced with restaurants, and souvenir shops. The area along Payne and Superior Avenue between 17th and I-90 could be a good place for that. That could be a huge regional draw.

 

I know that none of you will believe I'm typing this, but I completely disagree! As much as I want high end retail, that isn't going to work.....today.

 

We do not need a "district" just because NYC or some other city/place has one.  We need good urban planning and mixed use spaces similar to what has taken place in Center City Philadelphia (look at Chestnut, Samson & Walnut Sts between 13 & 18 streets).  High, Huron, Prospect, Euclid, West 3, West 6 & West 9 are all prime for various types of everyday to luxury boutiques.  Tower City is the perfect anchor to all of that.

 

We must have the basics covered before trying to create artificial shopping districts that would only cater to a small segment of the population and I suspect would be tourist driven.

 

Someone call the police!!!! Someone call the police!!!!

 

MTS has just been murdered and an impostor is running around in his place, posting messages! Call 911!!


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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I think a district would be tough, because Forest City despite MTS' claims of incompetence would always be pulling tenants towards TC.

 

This is why I specifically stay we need street level retail and give a great example of how a mix of stores have been brought to main streets in Philadelphia, despite having The Shops at Liberty Place in sight.

 

Use google street view to view the streets I mention above.

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and let me just clarify I didn't mean luxury retail mecessarily, just retail in general, and restaurants/bars along with the souvenir shops. Things that would give people another destination to visit in the city if they wanted to people watch, eat or do some shopping. That's the main thing I think the city lacks today, a place where you can go when the weather is nice where you can sit and just watch all the people walking around going about their business on ANY given day that is not a Life style center.

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