Jump to content
Guest zaceman

Cleveland: Wind Turbine Construction News

Recommended Posts

I think that is a little too cautious. I’m ok with having it off at night during the 2-3 weeks of migrations in Spring and Fall. The only birds that are flying at night that i know of are sea gulls, which should be pretty aware of those turbines. I can’t see bats flying that far out for insects. Besides the turbine will be slapping insects away if they are there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to attend an "informational" meeting on the project at a local yacht club last week.  It turned out to be a hatchet job by a group of NIMBY climate deniers.  They have a plan hatching to swamp the City Hall July 19, 6pm meeting with negative outrage to try to stall the project.

 

(The boating community seems split best I can tell.  Some consider it an eyesore, others "something to look at and sail to")

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They have a plan hatching to swamp the City Hall July 19, 6pm meeting with negative outrage to try to stall the project.

 

This type of garbage really kills me. It looks like they want to push the same BS that was used to kill the Cape Wind project off of Martha's Vineyard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have a plan hatching to swamp the City Hall July 19, 6pm meeting with negative outrage to try to stall the project.

 

This type of garbage really kills me. It looks like they want to push the same BS that was used to kill the Cape Wind project off of Martha's Vineyard.

 

 

That's exactly right. Their legal consultants are actually from the same groups that opposed Cape Wind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder who's paying their legal fees?

 

I don't have anything definitive, but my sense of it was that at this point it was chummy rich guys who know each other.  "My buddy is on the board of XXX and knows the chief counsel from YYY"

 

I would guess that for now the folk from Cape Wind are providing just a bit of guidance and an early playbook. ... and probably gently encouraging legal action while positioning themselves to take the case should it end up in the courts .... for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my tally of testimonials from the public meeting last night.

 

Speakers:

Cleveland residents: 8

Non-Cleveland, suburban residents: 30

Out of state residents: 3

Non-US residents (Canadian): 1

And one person whose address I didn't hear.

 

Spoke in support: 28

Spoke against: 11

Did not want to support the project without further research and data: 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good stats.  Are these public meetings televised on local access TV anywhere?  Especially anywhere with a video archive?  (How well-attended was the meeting overall?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But won't wind energy put coal miners out of jobs?

 

Hopefully. And I say that even though my grandfather James was President of Susquehanna Collieries. He also worked in the mines as an 11 year old. As an adult, he woke up from nightmares screaming "Run for your lives." Coal mining is an awful job.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to attend an "informational" meeting on the project at a local yacht club last week.  It turned out to be a hatchet job by a group of NIMBY climate deniers.  They have a plan hatching to swamp the City Hall July 19, 6pm meeting with negative outrage to try to stall the project.

 

(The boating community seems split best I can tell.  Some consider it an eyesore, others "something to look at and sail to")

 

I'm one of the biggest "climate change" skeptics around, but I don't see the overlap. The more ways we can generate energy, the better.  Especially once the storage issues are resolved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The more ways we can generate energy, the better.  Especially once the storage issues are resolved.

 

So, it's good to see CWRU in the forefront of energy storage research; I hope they can parlay that seed into something like Oak Ridge. 

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20180709/news/167701/case-western-reserve-receive-more-10-million-energy-research-center

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to attend an "informational" meeting on the project at a local yacht club last week.  It turned out to be a hatchet job by a group of NIMBY climate deniers.  They have a plan hatching to swamp the City Hall July 19, 6pm meeting with negative outrage to try to stall the project.

 

(The boating community seems split best I can tell.  Some consider it an eyesore, others "something to look at and sail to")

 

I'm one of the biggest "climate change" skeptics around, but I don't see the overlap. The more ways we can generate energy, the better.  Especially once the storage issues are resolved.

 

We're basically on the same page, especially considering how cheap wind power has gotten.  The market is shifting and should be allowed to shift.  Not to mention that no one can embargo the wind and sun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to attend an "informational" meeting on the project at a local yacht club last week.  It turned out to be a hatchet job by a group of NIMBY climate deniers.  They have a plan hatching to swamp the City Hall July 19, 6pm meeting with negative outrage to try to stall the project.

 

(The boating community seems split best I can tell.  Some consider it an eyesore, others "something to look at and sail to")

 

I'm one of the biggest "climate change" skeptics around, but I don't see the overlap. The more ways we can generate energy, the better.  Especially once the storage issues are resolved.

 

How anyone can be a climate change skeptic at this point is beyond me.  Even east Florida Republicans in beach front towns are changing their tune about climate change because they see the reality of it with every new storm. Not to mention the rising ocean levels.  They are starting to prepare for the future even if the Repub party line is deny, deny, deny (i.e. continue to take coal and oil company lobbyist money).  Even the holy scripture of Republicans-the free market- wants to let coal die because it's inefficient and outdated, but they are willing to go against free market principles for a few short term lobbyist bucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The market is shifting and should be allowed to shift.

 

It's amazing how the context of this comment has been flipped on its head over the past decade. Now it's crappy coal plants eagerly seeking public subsidies and fossil fuels that enjoy the momentum of regulatory advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thanks for that link.

 

 

This time, the supporters again held the majority of the nearly 200 people in attendance, although more of the opponents opted to take turns at the microphone. Many appeared on behalf of the Cleveland Yacht Club and the Black Swamp Bird Observatory.

 

The hearing was peppered with applause and shouted comments, requiring a siting board officer to occasionally chastise the offenders.

 

Sounds like the CYC group was just as classy as they were at the club meeting a couple of weeks ago.    ::)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to be one of those people who always ask where is this at or why havent I heard anything in the past 6 months kind of ordeal, but seeing as this project is more than necessary, I haven't heard a lick of tongue or literature on this project in a long while.

Are there still birdwatchers, city/state, or NOAA related officials that may be holding this project back? I think this project is NEEDco. from LEEDco. My electric is over the top right now.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Company receives key approval for wind turbines on Lake Erie near downtown Cleveland

 

A wind energy project proposed off the coast of downtown Cleveland has received a key approval on the way to getting turbines installed

 

The Icebreaker Wind project received approval of a construction permit from the Army Corps of Engineers.

 

The Army Corps oversees the Rivers and Harbors and the Clean Water Act.

 

“The issuance of the permit represents a big step forward for this thoroughly reviewed project,” said Lorry Wagner, President of the Cleveland-based Lake Erie Energy Development Corporation, which is developing Icebreaker Wind.

 

https://fox8.com/2019/03/25/company-receives-key-approval-for-wind-turbines-on-lake-erie-near-downtown-cleveland/

  • Like 2
  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Offshore windpower cost advantage comes from increasing the size of the turbines. Here is Siemens 10 MW turbines being installed in Europe without subsidy. Blade diameter is 193 m (~ 600 feet). That's almost 3x the power per turbine column than the LEEDCo planned 3.5 MW sizes. For context, installing 100 of these Siemens turbines would be about the same nameplate power capacity as the Perry Powerplant that our state government just tossed $150 million at today.

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/15/siemens-gamesa-10-megawatt-turbine-set-for-worlds-first-zero-subsidy-offshore-wind-farm/

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the status of the Lake Erie Wind Turbine project? As the first project on the Great Lakes, does it provide an opportunity for development of supporting industry and infrastructure? This project could put Cleveland at the forefront of the technology. What's taking them so long?

Edited by Frmr CLEder
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m sorry, this “project” is the potential biggest waste of money one could think of. You could put up 20x more for the same price out in Ashtabula County, on dirt cheap land. The continual service costs of water based turbines here would just be stupid. 

Edited by marty15
  • Dislike 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

   ^You don’t think that these turbines will be massive?  I don’t think that most turbines are this large. I would agree if all turbines are the same size whether on land or sea this should not be done in lake erie.   I don’t think land needs to be bought in Lake erie to place these. And no one is going to sue them for being unsightly or too loud. No variances need to be sought. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, marty15 said:

I’m sorry, this “project” is the potential biggest waste of money one could think of. You could put up 20x more for the same price out in Ashtabula County, on dirt cheap land. The continual service costs of water based turbines here would just be stupid. 


Ya—you can’t site turbines this big on land... with renewables quickly becoming the cheapest solution for new generation, I’m not sure how this is a waste of money.

 

To answer the question, LEEDCo is giving a project update December 3 at Lakewood Park Woman’s Club Pavilion. 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/23/2019 at 1:00 AM, marty15 said:

I’m sorry, this “project” is the potential biggest waste of money one could think of. You could put up 20x more for the same price out in Ashtabula County, on dirt cheap land. The continual service costs of water based turbines here would just be stupid. 

 

Wind power is more efficient over bodies of water. Additionally, the freshwater environment is considerably less volatile than saltwater. That's why we still have such a considerable amount of older ships in the Great Lakes fleet.

  • Like 4
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So me and another student at CSU in technical writing had a final project a few years ago. We decided to write up an RFP and semi-feasibility study to lace the Cleveland breakwaters with water turbines. Take a gander, because I think it really goes in place with green energy regarding these wind turbines. It's our first RFP, so please look past formatting issues and anything out of the norm.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qnpzKVE2tszwa0SsSUqTIBc_DVcn8EbNf9lF_T01ZGQ/edit?usp=sharing

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, tastybunns said:

So me and another student at CSU in technical writing had a final project a few years ago. We decided to write up an RFP and semi-feasibility study to lace the Cleveland breakwaters with water turbines. Take a gander, because I think it really goes in place with green energy regarding these wind turbines. It's our first RFP, so please look past formatting issues and anything out of the norm.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qnpzKVE2tszwa0SsSUqTIBc_DVcn8EbNf9lF_T01ZGQ/edit?usp=sharing

 

Thanks for sharing this - just an FYI not sure if it was intentional or not, but the redaction areas aren't totally redacted (you can highlight and see the text). 

 

Similarly when I was in undergrad, we did a GIS viewshed analysis for wind turbines off of Erie, PA-  that project has long disappeared but essentially it showed that for all the complaining people do about wind turbines in the lake, a very, very small number of people would be able to see them, if at all. It'd be a fun(?) project to recreate one of these days.  

Edited by GISguy
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

Thanks for sharing this - just an FYI not sure if it was intentional or not, but the redaction areas aren't totally redacted (you can highlight and see the text). 

 

Similarly when I was in undergrad, we did a GIS viewshed analysis for wind turbines off of Erie, PA-  that project has long disappeared but essentially it showed that for all the complaining people do about wind turbines in the lake, a very, very small number of people would be able to see them, if at all. It'd be a fun(?) project to recreate one of these days.  

Thanks for the note, i will fix the redactions, I completely overestimated the power of black highlighter. (U.S. Gov't please dont take notes)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Project Icebreaker would be at its nearest the size of a dime on the horizon. Making certain it doesn’t visually impair the horizon is part of the reason they chose the site they chose. 
 

At the same time, it’s close to the CPP station so it reduces transmission cabling needed. 
 

They did do their homework—promise!

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WhatUp said:

Channel 3 article from May 15th project still moving along.

 

I never really thought of the size of these turbines with each having the wingspan of a football field.

 

turb.thumb.png.c721299349b2cf4c801e3a4d44338bbf.png

The location of that inset map really bothers me #GIScommentaryOut 🥴

 

But this is great news, hopefully it sparks a larger farm in the future

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the OH Power Siting Board says they can't operate at night during migratory bird season. Is this a valid environmental concern or is this a political ploy veiled in concern for the environment? 

 

In my environmental courses I was always told turbines weren't as bad as folks assume- birds eventually change their flight patterns based on objects, and actual bird strikes are pretty low statistically. Typing on my phone but I can post some verification...

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/05/lake-erie-wind-turbines-approved-but-cant-operate-at-night-which-could-sink-project.html

Screenshot_20200521-204658.png

  • Sad 1
  • Poison 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOW can we secede?? 

  • Like 5
  • Love 2
  • Haha 1

"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The opposition to this project and ridiculous number of hoops they've had to jump through are utter bullcrap.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I have no basis to speak on the technical or regulatory aspects of this ruling, I’ve been following this project for a long time and wholeheartedly believe in its potential benefit for the region and our environment. 
 

That being said, it seems that LEEDCo’s disappointment  in this outcome is only exceeded by the disappointment of the various groups that are organized AGAINST it. While it would have preferable for the board to produce a full-throated endorsement, a result that gave neither side completely what it wanted doesn’t, to me, seem like it is necessarily a death sentence. Even more, it seems to leave LEEDCo with room to appeal and/or further refine the engineering to the parameters the board outlined. Something tells me that LEEDCo’s protests in response to this could be part strategic. 

Edited by brtshrcegr
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a state EPA Board? I do know that Lake Erie now has a Bill of Rights now meaning that Lake Erie is the only self governing body of water in the entire united states if not the world. Which may put it outside Ohio's Jurisdiction. So tell me, how in the world does a small 8-mile dotted line kill every bird that crosses Lake Erie at night?

Edited by tastybunns
  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

This is a state EPA Board? I do know that Lake Erie now has a Bill of Rights now meaning that Lake Erie is the only self governing body of water in the entire united states if not the world. Which may put it outside Ohio's Jurisdiction. So tell me, how in the world does a small 8-mile dotted line kill every bird that crosses Lake Erie at night?

 

Do you have a link to this Bill of Rights/self-governing piece?


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@KJP Here's the draft of LEBOR giving Lake Erie Person-hood like rights originated in Toledo offices and resident special elections.

 

https://beyondpesticides.org/assets/media/documents/LakeErieBillofRights.pdf

 

HOWEVER:

This happened as well...

https://www.jurist.org/news/2020/02/federal-judge-rules-lake-erie-bill-of-rights-unconstitutional/

 

If i never knew its ruling I never would have said it that has autonomous rights. But as it's basically step one equivalent to first draft, I'm sure the movement will grow as algal blooms creep across Lake Erie.

 

VOX also did a piece on LEBOR, it's definitely a good watch...

 

I think we should start a new topic on this, because it doesn't really pertain to LEEDCO's wind turbines, but it's basically Ohio law and district stipulation.

Edited by tastybunns
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Killed

 

“CLEVELAND -- When it comes to energy in Ohio, there’s always a whiff of wrongdoing in the air. And the smell can almost always be traced to the vicinity of Broad and High streets in Columbus, where various state officials have for decades cared more about serving electricity and coal interests than the citizens of Ohio.” 
 

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2020/05/ohio-siting-boards-poison-pill-to-kill-pioneering-lake-erie-wind-project-shows-a-state-in-thrall-to-major-energy-interests.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, PAZUZU said:

Killed

 

“CLEVELAND -- When it comes to energy in Ohio, there’s always a whiff of wrongdoing in the air. And the smell can almost always be traced to the vicinity of Broad and High streets in Columbus, where various state officials have for decades cared more about serving electricity and coal interests than the citizens of Ohio.” 
 

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2020/05/ohio-siting-boards-poison-pill-to-kill-pioneering-lake-erie-wind-project-shows-a-state-in-thrall-to-major-energy-interests.html

 

State corruption is exactly why I moved out of Ohio. I work in renewables (actually for LEEDCo back in 2010) and every time I read something like this it effectively comes across as "you aren't wanted here." Good, at least now there's no question. 

 

Save Greater Cleveland and a handful of cities, Ohio unfortunately deserves its rightful place at the bottom rung of US states. What an absolute mess.

 

 

Edited by ASP1984
  • Love 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People in oil and gas need to pull their heads out of their asses before my industry hands it to them. This just makes me want to work harder.

Edited by ASP1984
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...