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Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations

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1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

If NYC developers can build Hudson Yards on top of the Hudson River rail yards, why can't developers build above the current lakefront railroad tracks and shoreway in Cleveland?

 

 Because only passenger trains go underneath the Hudson Yards. More than 70 freight trains per day, some carrying large quantities of inhalable toxic materials, travel the Norfolk Southern tracks through downtown Cleveland.  The railroads, who own their rights of way and the air rights above them, would prefer not to have newly built structures covering long stretches of their rights of way. I am very curious as to how Chicago's McCormick Place got Canadian National's approval.

Edited by KJP
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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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13 hours ago, jmblec2 said:

Do the Haslems really have this much cash laying around? I'm not sure of their net worth, but they just spent $150m on the crew and are building a $200m stadium. 

As I mentioned up thread, Berkshire Hathaway bought a 38.6% stake in PFJ pretty recently, and that stake will increase to 80% in 2023 - likely freeing up billions, so yes they have the cash. 

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16 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 Because only passenger trains go underneath the Hudson Yards. More than 70 freight trains per day, some carrying large quantities of inhalable toxic materials, travel the Norfolk Southern tracks through downtown Cleveland.  The railroads, who own their rights of way and the air rights above them, would prefer not to have newly built structures covering long stretches of their rights of way. I am very curious as to how Chicago's McCormick Place got Canadian National's approval.

Eminent domain?

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1 hour ago, ydard said:

Eminent domain?

 

Good luck with that. Eminent domain doesn't mean taking property. It means acquiring private property for public good when no other reasonable alternative exists, then paying them fair value for their property. You cannot move a railroad out of the way without first providing them with an alternative right of way that is no more impactful to the natural and built environments at their proposed locations vs. their current location.

 

BTW, railroads have their eminent domain capabilities. They are one of the very few private enterprises in the USA who can undertake an eminent domain proceeding without the involvement of public sector sponsor.


"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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I'm very well familiar with eminent domain.  I was simply suggesting, in response to your curiosity, that -- if Canadian National was not a willing seller -- the convention authority could have used eminent domain to acquire air rights to build McCormick Place.

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18 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 Because only passenger trains go underneath the Hudson Yards. More than 70 freight trains per day, some carrying large quantities of inhalable toxic materials, travel the Norfolk Southern tracks through downtown Cleveland.  The railroads, who own their rights of way and the air rights above them, would prefer not to have newly built structures covering long stretches of their rights of way. I am very curious as to how Chicago's McCormick Place got Canadian National's approval.


In my experience the railroads aren’t very helpful or accommodating.

 

Once in a meeting when asked to do something they didn’t like, they responded with “we took out the buffalo and the indians; if we need to, we’ll take out you too.”

 

Or something to that effect 🙃

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Their significance continues to diminish with tremendous corporate consolidation over the years and various rail alternatives.  As we all know, that has been one of the great mistakes that has haunted the region since the decline in the steel industry.

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On 11/13/2019 at 1:37 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

North Station in Boston (Commuter and Regional Rail) is under TD Garden (home arena for Celtics and Bruins). 

 

This is a better example as the orange line and green lines are altered, and a reconstructed station was built.  However, the train waiting area, are HORRIBLE before, during and after any event as the train station and Garden have shared space.  It one of the worst places to see an event.  I know why Boston fans are so damn angry!

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Cleveland isn't the only city battling the railroads for control of precious land resources. Charlotte and Greensboro, NC have similar desires, but success with the railroads is not an impossibility. It does however require the will, perseverence and careful negotiation.

 

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/186266/220-acre-version-of-new-york-citys-central-park-proposed-for-a-longstanding-north-charlotte-rail-yard/

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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