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Cleveland: FirstEnergy Stadium renovations

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There is a lot of revenue sharing in the NFL, so the primary levers teams can use to grow their business are Premium (Suite + Club-level) Sales,  Parking, and Sponsorship.  The gravy is when a stadium can be leveraged into a bigger real estate play with surrounding land.  

 

In the current situation, the Browns lose out on Parking revenue because they don't own the big lots.  They also feel that Premium Sales are limited because the C-Suite doesn't like the parking setup and traffic difficulties on gameday. Finally, stadium sponsorship deals are always worth less $ for older buildings, especially those that don't "debut" with a sponsor name.

 

I think a best case scenario is that the Browns exercise some of their leverage to drive political will for reshaping the lakefront to be more accessible.  In turn I'd expect that to open up opportunities for them to position a renovated (or new) stadium alongside a larger real estate development and better parking access for the Premium folks.  

 

However that's obviously a big undertaking, and I'm sure there are people at the Browns who recognize that a much easier path would be to start "fresh" in one of the many suburbs that would happily throw money and land at them. (Hello, Bedford Hts Browns?)  

  

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15 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Been there, did that. Remember Municipal Stadium which the Indians and Browns shared?

Yes. I worked there lol. No I mean a venue that is more amenable to year round usage, like Lucas Oil in Indy. The current stadium has made some decent strides with their event space, but not enough of the stadium is usable. A retractable roof is almost a necessity. 

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8 minutes ago, surfohio said:

Yes. I worked there lol. No I mean a venue that is more amenable to year round usage, like Lucas Oil in Indy. The current stadium has made some decent strides with their event space, but not enough of the stadium is usable. A retractable roof is almost a necessity. 

 

Have a look at the current Lucas Oil Field schedule.   http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/upcoming-events.aspx   More than half the currently listed events are less than 10,000 people.  Some are only 150 (anyone up for an Indy road trip for some wedding crashing!)

 

I'm not saying I'd be 100% opposed to a retractable roof if the numbers worked out (sure a Final Four or even Big 10 championship in Cleveland would be great), but I feel like that ship has sailed until we get yet another new stadium.    In the absence of this, the best lipstick on our pig lies on renovating the surroundings of the stadium.   Build on mixed-use additions.   A clever site plan could incorporate many of the bridge-from-downtown plans floating around these forums, and add in further restaurant, retail and meeting places, along with the much needed premium parking access. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

A clever site plan could incorporate many of the bridge-from-downtown plans floating around these forums, and add in further restaurant, retail and meeting places, along with the much needed premium parking access. 

Agree. And I think that's what Dee Haslem is all about. 

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59 minutes ago, ML11 said:

I think a best case scenario is that the Browns exercise some of their leverage to drive political will for reshaping the lakefront to be more accessible.  In turn I'd expect that to open up opportunities for them to position a renovated (or new) stadium alongside a larger real estate development and better parking access for the Premium folks.   

Here's hoping for the best case scenario!

 

I am a little intrigued about their parking concerns. Like, how much is motivated by revenues and how much is motivated by altruism, e.g. fans game day experience. Virtually every tailgate lot is in some danger of being developed, and rightfully so. 

Edited by surfohio
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I'm hearing four sites are being looked at right now....

Edited by KJP
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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3 hours ago, Htsguy said:

So does this mean that the Haslam's are no longer interested in partnering on lakefront redevelopment?

 

Existing stadium is one of the four. I hope to write about this when I get home this evening. I started writing about it but stopped when I realized it would make a better article. Sorry. 😄

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40 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Existing stadium is one of the four. I hope to write about this when I get home this evening. I started writing about it but stopped when I realized it would make a better article. Sorry. 😄

The best case IMHO is an renovated and upgraded existing stadium with a DOME added so that it could provide year round events.  Like a SUPER BOWL, concerts, and if the Convention Center is extended over the train tracks then it could be connected and help to attract bigger conventions too.

 

And it would make sense for the Browns, Science Center, Rock Hall, and PACE to be partners in his new LAKEFRONT DEVELOPMENT!

 

So that whole area is improved and it will provide new housing, new offices, new retail, better parking ect.  with a corresponding 

increase in attendance in all attractions in that area too.

 

And it would be A LOT CHEAPER TO UPGRADE the existing stadium then having to build a brand new one in 10-20 years!

Edited by Larry1962
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Just now, Larry1962 said:

The best case IMHO is an renovated and upgraded existing stadium with a DOME added so that it could provide year round events.  Like a SUPER BOWL, concerts, and if the Convention Center is extended over the trains then it could be connected and help to attract bigger conventions too.

Couldn't the money it will cost for a brand new stadium literally pay for ALL of this. Seeing that stadiums cost upwards of 5 billion dollars. A much more beneficial option imo.

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31 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Couldn't the money it will cost for a brand new stadium literally pay for ALL of this. Seeing that stadiums cost upwards of 5 billion dollars. A much more beneficial option imo.

The Browns aren’t spending money on a development without a new/renovated stadium somewhere. So it’s a false choice. That $5 billion as you say will either be spent on a new/renovated stadium (AND development hopefully) or nothing

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Stadiums are expensive but they don't cost $5B.  The most recently built stadium was Mercedes-Benz stadium in Atlanta which cost $1.6B in 2017.  The Niners stadium opened in  2014 and cost $1.3B while Minnesota built one that opened in 2016 for a little over $1B. AT&T stadium in Dallas was $1.2B back in 2009.

 

Point is, stadium costs are crazy enough - you don't need to exaggerate by tripling them.

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35 minutes ago, Potamus said:

Stadiums are expensive but they don't cost $5B.  The most recently built stadium was Mercedes-Benz stadium in Atlanta which cost $1.6B in 2017.  The Niners stadium opened in  2014 and cost $1.3B while Minnesota built one that opened in 2016 for a little over $1B. AT&T stadium in Dallas was $1.2B back in 2009.

 

Point is, stadium costs are crazy enough - you don't need to exaggerate by tripling them.

Isn't the Raiders new stadium in Las Vegas supposed to cost well over 2B

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41 minutes ago, Potamus said:

Stadiums are expensive but they don't cost $5B.  The most recently built stadium was Mercedes-Benz stadium in Atlanta which cost $1.6B in 2017.  The Niners stadium opened in  2014 and cost $1.3B while Minnesota built one that opened in 2016 for a little over $1B. AT&T stadium in Dallas was $1.2B back in 2009.

 

Point is, stadium costs are crazy enough - you don't need to exaggerate by tripling them.

For the most part that's true. The new Stadium development in LA however, is about 5 billion. 1 billion is about the average these days.

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1 hour ago, Mov2Ohio said:

For the most part that's true. The new Stadium development in LA however, is about 5 billion. 1 billion is about the average these days.

The stadium in LA is 2.4 Billion to build and the surrounding area (Housing, retail and commercial space) is 2.6 billion. 

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2 minutes ago, zbaris87 said:

The stadium in LA is 2.4 Billion to build and the surrounding area (Housing, retail and commercial space) is 2.6 billion. 

Exactly. 5 billion. Hence why I said stadium development.

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2 hours ago, simplythis said:

Isn't the Raiders new stadium in Las Vegas supposed to cost well over 2B

1.8 billion was the projected cost. 65,000 seats including lots of luxury boxes/seats and a dome; because tomorrows forecast high is 102. 

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Cleveland has the enviable position of having all sports venues within easy walking distance of one another. Few cities can make that claim.

 

The stadium should stay put, add a dome and develop around it, consistent with Richard Pace's growing development. Another, less favorable option, would be to build a new stadium along the Opportunity Corridor project or in some of the brownfields on the eastside. That eliminates the advantages of option 1.

 

Lol. Tried entering D.I.C.K. Pace, but editor kept replacing with d*ck. I know the guy.  We went to high school together in Hunting Valley.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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The reason why the new Raiders stadium costs so much is because Vegas wouldn't allow them to build a new stadium unless they built a prison underneath. Yet the stadium isn't supposed to be any more special than FES. So it took a while with the drafts and eventually the excavating just puts the icing on the cake as it's been under construction for just about 3 going on 4 years. An entirely subterranean prison, underneath the Raiders stadium.

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1 minute ago, tastybunns said:

The reason why the new Raiders stadium costs so much is because Vegas wouldn't allow them to build a new stadium unless they built a prison underneath. Yet the stadium isn't supposed to be any more special than FES. So it took a while with the drafts and eventually the excavating just puts the icing on the cake as it's been under construction for just about 3 going on 4 years. An entirely subterranean prison, underneath the Raiders stadium.

A prison? Yikes.

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23 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

The reason why the new Raiders stadium costs so much is because Vegas wouldn't allow them to build a new stadium unless they built a prison underneath. Yet the stadium isn't supposed to be any more special than FES. So it took a while with the drafts and eventually the excavating just puts the icing on the cake as it's been under construction for just about 3 going on 4 years. An entirely subterranean prison, underneath the Raiders stadium.

I'm afraid you have some bad information. The rumor was a small holding facility for unruly fans but this was only a rumor and is not being built. The stadium has only been under construction for a little over two years and will be ready for the 2020 season. 

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There wasn't anything ruling these plans out, according to many sources they haven't deviated from the original concept, with holding cells and a courthouse right underneath turf.

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40 minutes ago, tastybunns said:

There wasn't anything ruling these plans out, according to many sources they haven't deviated from the original concept, with holding cells and a courthouse right underneath turf.

They were unconfirmed sources and according to the stadium authority untrue but I believe we have ventured off topic. Here's an article on it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbaker/2018/08/23/las-vegas-raiders-stadium-jail-court/#52dee4f7597b

 

From the article:  Reached for comment, the Las Vegas Stadium Authority said in a statement: “There will NOT be a jail or a courthouse at the Las Vegas Raiders Stadium." 

Who knows, after all we have Area 51. 

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Sorry for the delay. Life often intrudes......

 

Minneapolis-RyanCos-stadiumsiteplan1.JPG

 

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2019

Stadium sites are as much about development

 

It's still early in the game, but a few sites in downtown Cleveland are being considered by the Haslam family, owners of the Cleveland Browns, for a large, stadium-oriented development zone. The planning process is just getting underway with an eye toward 2029 -- the year the team's lease ends with the city for use of First Energy Stadium.

While the record of sports stadiums producing spin-off economic development has been uneven, much of it is due to the fact that the stadiums were often considered the end product. Most stadiums were sponsored by public agencies and any spin-off development was often not part of a coherent plan, let alone part of the sponsoring agencies' organizational missions.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/stadium-sites-are-as-much-about.html

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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22 minutes ago, KJP said:

Sorry for the delay. Life often intrudes......

 

Minneapolis-RyanCos-stadiumsiteplan1.JPG

 

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 16, 2019

Stadium sites are as much about development

 

It's still early in the game, but a few sites in downtown Cleveland are being considered by the Haslam family, owners of the Cleveland Browns, for a large, stadium-oriented development zone. The planning process is just getting underway with an eye toward 2029 -- the year the team's lease ends with the city for use of First Energy Stadium.

While the record of sports stadiums producing spin-off economic development has been uneven, much of it is due to the fact that the stadiums were often considered the end product. Most stadiums were sponsored by public agencies and any spin-off development was often not part of a coherent plan, let alone part of the sponsoring agencies' organizational missions.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/stadium-sites-are-as-much-about.html

KJ - you mentioned the intermodal yards as option 3. Does that mean that the Force/USL Stadium deal is falling apart? What do you know on that?

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I don't think it means anything except that no sports user, nor anyone on their behalf, has bought the property yet.

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Daryl is hearing some of the same stuff I'm hearing....

 

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Take a look at some of the stadium-oriented developments that are planned or underway around the NFL. I can't provide any more detail right now (for the same reason that Daryl can't) because it would put the project, including site control, in jeopardy.

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7 hours ago, KJP said:

Take a look at some of the stadium-oriented developments that are planned or underway around the NFL. I can't provide any more detail right now (for the same reason that Daryl can't) because it would put the project, including site control, in jeopardy.

Wow, so we’ve got that lurking behind the scenes right now....could they potentially team up or coordinate with Pace on a “Patriot Place” type development around the edges of FES or are we looking at a completely new location?

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I would be OK with a new stadium at a different location when the time comes.    Before the lakefront site was selected, wasn't there talk about building it on property west of Ontario/Orange Ave? 

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Same site, different players.


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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