Cleveland: Cleveland Browns Stadium

[Guest skiwest]

Progressive field is one of the smallest ballparks in MLB already as far as seating capacity. Yes, they did go overboard with the number of suites, but that is not a reason to tear it down.  Wasn't Progressive Field rated as the best ballpark in MLB in a recent survey?

 

It's a shame they were in such a hurry to build the new Browns stadium.  Putting it on the site of the old stadium was a mistake IMO.  Rather that doing extensive renovations, it would probably make sense to build a new stadium with a retractable roof at another location.     

 

As far as a new tax, forget about it.  Cuyahoga County residents are paying the highest taxes in the state.  They need to get the surrounding counties to pony up some cash to finance these facilities.

[TBideon]

As long as the tax payers don't contribute a dime for a new stadium, then Jimmy and Dee can build whatever they'd like on whatever land they purchase. 

[Mendo]

If they want to replace their 20 year old stadiums they can pay for it themselves. These stadium deals are money pits for the city and county.

[GISguy]

This thread is going to get locked before it has a chance to take off.

 

92.3 is obsessed with saying the Jake is a POS and OLD, yadayada despite it always being called one of the premier in the league in so many sports columns as well as with guests. MLB wouldn't have given us an ASG if they thought our stadium was terrible. If ticket prices come down to a reasonable amount (mostly fee BS), and in park prices don't kill you every game they wouldn't have attendance problems. I'd love to buy a quarter season plan, but I also like grabbing a beer or three at games and at 10+ a pop, it adds up quickly and drains my desire to go to more than a few games a year. 

 

As far as THIS thread is concerned, First Energy was built quickly and whatever, but it's an attraction where it is, especially if Haslams develop the lakefront as has been proposed. It's an anchor for a much larger thing. I think of Heinz Field when it comes to surrounding development and waterfront land. Also, build more transit down there, or get people to walk more and boom, your access issues are solved. The city should also work with traffic engineering firms to enhance the flow as well (my old firm did this for a lot of NFL teams). I went to the Bills game this year and it was AWESOME to be able to take transit from Old Brooklyn there and back, embrace having a stadium in the city (with the amenities it brings)

 

Lastly, to say it's a FES is POS is bizarre- I came from WNY and Ralph Wilson is a POS, not to mention the radio guys suggested moving a new stadium to the middle of nowhere aka hearkening back to the Richfield Colosseum days. Somehow the 'guts' of Ralph Wilson and Arrowhead Stadiums (among other OLD stadiums) are A-O-K to keep putting money in and renovations. 

 

The area has much larger things to be concerned about - Progressive Field is pretty damn nice and ranks high year over year, First Energy Stadium is in a good spot if Haslams put their development plans in motion and really isn't that bad. 

 

TLDR; listen to who's doing the talking. Buffalo always has to deal with this crap the stadium is outdated, modern amenities are needed, etc., etc., rarely is it the casual fan saying this, it's almost always the leagues, owners, and mouthpieces aka 92.3.

[Frmr CLEder]

Cleveland is one of the few cities in the country that has three professional sporting venues within walking distance of one another. That's a huge asset for the urban core; its value should not be overlooked.

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Frmr CLEder

[mack34]

Ruiter is an idiot.....Progressive Field is already 35K seats might already has the lowest seating capacity in the MLB.  Plus they just renovated it.......And its location is perfect.  

[marty15]

Yeah, big no on that. Progressive Field is awesome. And capacity is 34,700. Browns Stadium there? 10 game days a year to help feed East 4th?  Hell no

[Stang10]

Yeah I thought Progressive Field was pretty small as far as capacity is concerned, after they took out the seats in RF and put the shipping containers in the upper deck but couldn't recall. But I can see his thought about making it more intimate. If you are in the upper deck at the stadium, it feels like you're miles from the field. So I can see how that could be a plus. I just brought them up as a possible move/new stadium because the lease issue and it's also being well reported that the Dolans are looking to sell. So new owner means new stadium/relocation.

 

But anyways to get back to the Browns, if my friend is right about the "guts" being a disaster, that could be why when the Haslams' looked at putting a retractable roof on the stadium a few years ago it wasn't feasible. The cost to put a roof on that stadium, maybe the stadium couldn't take the stress levels without some sort of major reinforcement put in place which would probably be very expensive. This is all speculation on my part, obviously. If a stadium is built on the lake again, the city/Browns/county need to make it more accessible to get in/out. I'm a season ticket holder and it's ridiculous getting in/out of that place early in the season/primetime games when the hype was high for the team.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Stang10

[Mendo]

Yes nebulous comments about poor build quality and rushed design is how you slowly warm the pot. The county, for example, has been slowly boiling frogs over the Justice Center the last few years.

[GISguy]

14 minutes ago, Mendo said:

Yes nebulous comments about poor build quality and rushed design is how you slowly warm the pot. The county, for example, has been slowly boiling frogs over the Justice Center the last few years.

 

The Justice Center actually needs it though. It isn't built for today, as is the case with most brutalist buildings (they don't play well with networking equipment, wifi, etc.).

 

The stadium on the other hand is already essentially a skeleton. There's a reason why older stadiums can continue to be renovated and upgraded vs built new.

[AsDustinFoxWouldSay]

2 hours ago, skiwest said:

Progressive field is one of the smallest ballparks in MLB already as far as seating capacity. Yes, they did go overboard with the number of suites, but that is not a reason to tear it down.  Wasn't Progressive Field rated as the best ballpark in MLB in a recent survey?

 

It's a shame they were in such a hurry to build the new Browns stadium.  Putting it on the site of the old stadium was a mistake IMO.  Rather that doing extensive renovations, it would probably make sense to build a new stadium with a retractable roof at another location.     

 

As far as a new tax, forget about it.  Cuyahoga County residents are paying the highest taxes in the state.  They need to get the surrounding counties to pony up some cash to finance these facilities.

They most certainly do need to get surrounding counties to pony up that cash. I'm willing to bet 2/3 of the regular attendees at the stadium don't live in Cuyahoga County, but the surrounding counties like Medina, Lorain, and Lake. And yet we Cuyahoga residents are the ones who fit the bill. Unfortunately, I doubt this anti-cooperative region would even consider a regional financing plan, especially if the stadium were to remain downtown. For example, Geauga County residents would want it in Geuaga County, Medina County residents will want it in Medina County

[Boomerang_Brian]

Hard no on either new Browns or new Indians stadiums. Just no. The only related thing I’d consider would be a dome on the current FES. And only if the cost to increased-number-of-events ratio was reasonable. There just aren’t that many events available for a domed facility that size, so it seems like a long shot. 

[Cleburger]

5 hours ago, Stang10 said:

Either way, Browns Stadium needs to be moved off the lake. When (If) the Browns ever put a winning football team on the field again, that current stadium is a mess to get in/out of. With only two entrances, due to the lake, trying to get 65,000 people in/out of a stadium is a complete disaster.

 

There are actually 4 entrances, plus the suite entrances.  People are just lazy and gravitate towards the SE and SW egresses.  

[Cleburger]

3 hours ago, Stang10 said:

 If a stadium is built on the lake again, the city/Browns/county need to make it more accessible to get in/out. I'm a season ticket holder and it's ridiculous getting in/out of that place early in the season/primetime games when the hype was high for the team.

 

Go to a game at the new Sofi stadium in Inglewood next fall and let me know how traffic is for you!  

 

Since the Browns and City finally sat down and redid their traffic plan a few seasons back, the Browns actually have one of the best traffic flow systems in the league.   It involved closing down the streets entirely around the stadium, and making the traffic one-way from the GLSC around the north side of the stadium, exiting through the pit parking directly onto SR2 eastbound.  

 

And since our stadium is in the CBD and streets are closed to 100% pedestrians, most can walk to their cars in <15 minutes.   This is on par with stadiums with a sea of lots around them (ie Buffalo, KC).   And once in your car, there are multiple routes to choose from out of the city, instead of just one or two out of a sea of lots.  

 

 

[surfohio]

11 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Go to a game at the new Sofi stadium in Inglewood next fall and let me know how traffic is for you!  

 

Actually I'm going to predict traffic for the Chargers games won't be an issue. 

 

[edit] F_ _ _ SPANOS

Edited February 21, 2020 by surfohio

[OCBB2009]

7 hours ago, mack34 said:

Ruiter is an idiot.....Progressive Field is already 35K seats might already has the lowest seating capacity in the MLB.  Plus they just renovated it.......And its location is perfect.  

Second this completely.  Ruiter is an idiot.  I wouldn't take stock in anything he says.  Nothing is going to happen with the Indians.  And FES is fine, and will be even better with investment in the waterfront line, waterfront development, and some additional renovations to the existing facility.

[KJP]

Browns exec says team hopes to have 'more to share in the coming months' on future of FirstEnergy Stadium

https://www.crainscleveland.com/kevin-kleps-blog/browns-exec-says-team-hopes-have-more-share-coming-months-future-firstenergy

[ExPatClevGuy]

Browns exec says team hopes to have 'more to share in the coming months' on future of FirstEnergy Stadium (?)

Tainted perhaps, and $60M is less than the naming rights agreement of $102M, but the people are sure to remember it.

Come to think of it, House of Pain, and Factory of Sadness weren't much worse as nicknames go.

Edited July 23, 2020 by ExPatClevGuy

[lockdog]

where does this cancel culture end....   Redskins, Aunt Jemima, Cleveland Indians, etc.....   now first energy stadium...!!   

[jeremyck01]

2 hours ago, lockdog said:

where does this cancel culture end....   Redskins, Aunt Jemima, Cleveland Indians, etc.....   now first energy stadium...!!   

I’m hoping this is a rhetorical question asked in jest, as all of the name changes you mention were necessary and a long time coming.

[lockdog]

1 hour ago, jeremyck01 said:

I’m hoping this is a rhetorical question asked in jest, as all of the name changes you mention were necessary and a long time coming.

yes, totally in jest....   I would be surprised if someone actually got upset over a first energy name change....   

[GISguy]

Oh man it's too perfect 

 

Take it to the HOOUUUSE(holder)

[Down_with_Ctown]

I prefer "Company A Stadium" myself.

 

Of course, Mr. Haslam has had his own experience with the feds so I'm guessing this place will keep the FES moniker for the foreseeable future.

[KJP]

6 minutes ago, Down_with_Ctown said:

I prefer "Company A Stadium" myself.

 

Of course, Mr. Haslam has had his own experience with the feds so I'm guessing this place will keep the FES moniker for the foreseeable future.

 

Then why not FBI Stadium or Subpoena Stadium?

[Silent Matt]

I’m calling it First Bribery Stadium.

[Guest skiwest]

A retractable roof would be nice, especially on a day like today.  

[Cleburger]

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

A retractable roof would be nice, especially on a day like today.  

 

The last 3 home games would have been nice.  But then again with Chubb/Hunt leading the offense, maybe the Browns should be hoping for more bad weather!  

[simplythis]

FES needs Capital Improvements.

 

Pedestrian ramps, stadium wide concrete work, hot water tanks, compressors, and fire sprinkler lines are among the types of repairs needed.

The repairs are needed for safety reasons and to avoid larger repair bills in the future, according to Brancatelli. He see’s it as protecting an investment.

 

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/12/09/city-cleveland-getting-ready-capital-repair-project-first-energy-stadium/

[jmblec2]

What do the browns pay in rent?

[Stang10]

I understand that these sound like general maintenance repairs/work but I have a friend that worked on the construction of Cleveland Brown Stadium and he said that facility is basically put together with spit and glue and major repairs will be needed in the long run. I think the lease runs out in 2028 or 2029. I would expect the Haslams, especially if the Browns continue to improve as a team, to look to build a brand new stadium with a retractable roof. Not sure where it would go, since you need a massive footprint for the stadium/parking/transit/etc but I would imagine they are in the very early stages of planning a massive project like this.

[MrR]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:57 PM, jmblec2 said:

What do the browns pay in rent?

 

The Brown's rent is 8% of ticket sales

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by MrR

[Cleburger]

2 minutes ago, MrR said:

The Brown's rent is 8% of ticket sales

 

This is in line with most arena/stadium rental deals.  There is usually a cap on it, so if the city is getting a full 8%, that is a good deal (for the city) 

[KJP]

I would pull out the motor vehicle license tax as well as the parking tax and use it instead for the capital and operating costs of expanded public transportation.

[Guest skiwest]

3 hours ago, Stang10 said:

I understand that these sound like general maintenance repairs/work but I have a friend that worked on the construction of Cleveland Brown Stadium and he said that facility is basically put together with spit and glue and major repairs will be needed in the long run. I think the lease runs out in 2028 or 2029. I would expect the Haslams, especially if the Browns continue to improve as a team, to look to build a brand new stadium with a retractable roof. Not sure where it would go, since you need a massive footprint for the stadium/parking/transit/etc but I would imagine they are in the very early stages of planning a massive project like this.

Is there room for a new stadium near the post office?  I thought they were considering that area in the 90s before the lakefront site was selected.

[KJP]

5 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Is there room for a new stadium near the post office?  I thought they were considering that area in the 90s before the lakefront site was selected.

 

That's correct -- the same site considered for a soccer stadium. 

[JaceTheAce41]

For us non Clevelanders, where is that exactly?

 

[KJP]

8 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

For us non Clevelanders, where is that exactly?

 

 

Here..... (And I put an in-scale Indy's Lucas Oil Stadium on the site for reference)

 

 

 

[jmblec2]

is that location much of an improvement? still looks very isolated.  

[KJP]

3 minutes ago, jmblec2 said:

is that location much of an improvement? still looks very isolated.  

 

It's a good place for a stadium that has 10 sporting events per year. But imagine the Stone's Levee/Flats South area to the west of the stadium as redeveloped. It would also be a short walk from an RTA station -- one that would be on the new Downtown Loop too!!  

[LlamaLawyer]

30 minutes ago, jmblec2 said:

is that location much of an improvement? still looks very isolated.  

According to Google Maps it would be (depending on where the entrance is) a seven minute walk from Progressive field. Could be even less with a little roadway reworking. Imagine three major league sports stadiums within a ten minute walk.

 

[simplythis]

I still prefer to keep FES on the lakefront and use that site

for a USL maybe expanble to MLS soccer Stadium

[RDB]

Why not just make it multi use for soccer as well? Such as Mercedes-Benz in Atlanta?

 

Edit: or Centurylink/Lumen field in Seattle.

Edited December 10, 2020 by RDB

[Stang10]

31 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

It's a good place for a stadium that has 10 sporting events per year. But imagine the Stone's Levee/Flats South area to the west of the stadium as redeveloped. It would also be a short walk from an RTA station -- one that would be on the new Downtown Loop too!!  

I would be willing to bet that if a new stadium is built, rather than a massive renovation project on the current stadium, you would see a stadium with a retractable roof or a dome so it could be used for more than just 10 sporting events per year. There is too much money being lost by Cleveland not being able to utilize a 68K stadium in the winter besides for football. You would be able to bid on the NCAA basketball tournament, stadium concert series, possible Super Bowl hosting, SuperCross Races, etc. All of those things would then be able to be played or at least given an opportunity for a legitimate bid to bring those to CLE.

 

It's just a matter of raising funds for a $1B project. It's already a sticky subject for the city to raise the funds. Owners usually don't want to spend their own money and leverage the possibility of moving the team to get what they what. This is all 5+ years down the road but I'm sure the Haslams have already done extensive research on the options.

[LlamaLawyer]

3 minutes ago, RDB said:

Why not just make it multi use for soccer as well? Such as Mercedes-Benz in Atlanta?

 

Edit: or Centurylink/Lumen field in Seattle.

100% agree this is a good idea. There are several stadiums that serve NBA and NHL teams simultaneously. If they can arrange scheduling for the 150+ NBA/NHL games, they could make 25 work for an NFL and (hopefully someday) MLS team.

[cfdwarrior]

1 minute ago, LlamaLawyer said:

100% agree this is a good idea. There are several stadiums that serve NBA and NHL teams simultaneously. If they can arrange scheduling for the 150+ NBA/NHL games, they could make 25 work for an NFL and (hopefully someday) MLS team.

You had me at NHL!  

[ryanfrazier]

Could the Rapid keep running throughout construction if this were to happen?  

[KJP]

34 minutes ago, Stang10 said:

It's just a matter of raising funds for a $1B project. It's already a sticky subject for the city to raise the funds. Owners usually don't want to spend their own money and leverage the possibility of moving the team to get what they what. This is all 5+ years down the road but I'm sure the Haslams have already done extensive research on the options.

 

The Haslams are gearing up for the end of the FES lease in 2029. They may stay put and renovate FES, which was strongly suggested when the city ended its deal with Cumberland Development so the Haslams could take over the lakefront. Unless..... The Haslams intend to use revenue from lakefront development to help finance the relocation of Browns stadium to another location. And the Haslams are involved in the expansion of the Rock Hall, so they are clearly doing something down there. But for what and where?

 

36 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

Could the Rapid keep running throughout construction if this were to happen?  

 

Yes. Look at what was done to the Amtrak/New Jersey Transit rail lines in NYC to allow for the overhead construction of the Hudson Yards development. They put the multiple-track rail line into a concrete box below the development site and then proceeded to build above it. The tunnel box was completed in 2017.

 

https://nec.amtrak.com/project/hudson-yard-right-of-way-preservation-project/

[YABO713]

They're not looking to move the stadium. 

 

The Haslam's are infatuated with crowd noise as an advantage (hence the lower bowl increase in capacity, when the rest of the stadium was downsized)... In the next 4-5 years, you will see a proposal that includes a retractable roof and potentially a field dropped by 2-3 feet to add some lower bowl capacity. 

 

Among some people I've talked to, the goal is for Cleveland to have a Super Bowl and a Final 4 by 2040. 

[simplythis]

3 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

They're not looking to move the stadium. 

 

The Haslam's are infatuated with crowd noise as an advantage (hence the lower bowl increase in capacity, when the rest of the stadium was downsized)... In the next 4-5 years, you will see a proposal that includes a retractable roof and potentially a field dropped by 2-3 feet to add some lower bowl capacity. 

 

Among some people I've talked to, the goal is for Cleveland to have a Super Bowl and a Final 4 by 2040. 

Dang it. Some of us won't be alive by then

[CleveFan]

True - but. In a crazy way, 2040 is not that far away. How far out in advance does the NFL plan super bowl sites?  @YABO713seems to be breaking some real insider news and it seems the retractable roof and lower bowl expansion would be added to the existing stadium. I wonder how much those costs would be compared to a new stadium build. There’s probably someone on the forum that might have a good idea of that.