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Coronavirus Pandemic

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2 hours ago, Columbo said:

Let's check out Standard Hall in the Short North tonight:

 

Oh dear.

 

I work at an "essential" business.  Our sales are only down about 20%.  The guys in the warehouse, writ large,  are completely incapable of wearing masks consistently and completely incapable keeping a proper distance from one-another.  One thing i don't think the experts thought of is that machinery is loud and it's impossible to lip read someone who is wearing a mask over the din of idling (let alone revving) fork lift engines, band saws, box trucks, etc. 

 

But aside from the legit technical issues associated with working in a loud industrial work environment, at some point we have to accept the fact that Americans are mentally incapable of following directions of this type and that Americans - thousands of them - will die because of it.  It's partly because of the innate culture we are brought up in and partly because of all of the disinformation that has reduced the cultural frame for this disease to that of a STD. 

 

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2 hours ago, Columbo said:

So this is the first full day for bars reopening in Ohio.  Seems like its a risk to open things up with COVID-19 still out and inadequate testing - but DeWine and Acton have patiently been explaining about keeping groups small and the socially distancing of 6 feet and the recommended wearing of masks - so its probably going to be okay right?

 

Let's check out Standard Hall in the Short North tonight:

wcof71n6p0z41.jpg

 

Oh dear.

 

Well then, check out the comments about this over at https://www.reddit.com/r/Columbus/comments/gkkk0l/standard_hall_where_6_small_groups_and_mike/

 

 

Can we contact the Ohio Health Department to have this establishment shut down?

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Per Derek Bauman, "The Blind Pig" Downtown Cincinnati. Can we forward this photo to the Ohio public health department and get the blind pig shut down? 

 

If you can't regulate social distancing laws and help save lives as a business owner than you deserve to be shut down.

Edited by troeros

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^ This is why you have Public Health officials. Previous generations didn't seem to have these issues. I remember the polio epidemic and in elementary school (the original A.J. Rickoff) we lined up in a very orderly manner to receive our sugar cubes; no parental objections, no protesters, no assault-rifle carrying thugs. We acquired herd immunity with little-to-no incidents.

 

Individual business owners, already devastated from the 8 week shutdown, are desperate to recover their revenues/profits and will place the public health at risk in order to do so.

 

Selfishness, greed and a disregard for the wellbeing of others will prove to be our societal undoing.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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9 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I work at an "essential" business.  Our sales are only down about 20%.  The guys in the warehouse, writ large,  are completely incapable of wearing masks consistently and completely incapable keeping a proper distance from one-another.  One thing i don't think the experts thought of is that machinery is loud and it's impossible to lip read someone who is wearing a mask over the din of idling (let alone revving) fork lift engines, band saws, box trucks, etc. 

 

But aside from the legit technical issues associated with working in a loud industrial work environment, at some point we have to accept the fact that Americans are mentally incapable of following directions of this type and that Americans - thousands of them - will die because of it.  It's partly because of the innate culture we are brought up in and partly because of all of the disinformation that has reduced the cultural frame for this disease to that of a STD. 

 

 

Too much hyperindividualism and belief in self over society.

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11 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Too much hyperindividualism and belief in self over society.

Yep. And all of this just reinforces for me that we are on our own. We can't rely on our government nor our fellow citizens to do the right things.

I feel very badly for older people and people with pre-existing conditions who have no alternative but to be out amongst their fellow citizens right now.

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30 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Too much hyperindividualism and belief in self over society.

 

It's the basis of our nation.   The people who felt that way in Europe came here.   You will never get past that and anything that would is potentially way worse than most diseases, certainly this one.

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Anyway, I got swabbed last Thursday morning, and it came out negative.   I guarantee you people will not accept *that* test method unless they feel it is absolutely and personally necessary.  Horrible.

 

The most 2020 thing ever may be the line "The good news is it's mostly a cardiac issue".  Had some lung sh*t to clear up but the cardioversion machine put the a-fib back into sync.   As is to be expected from the best cardiac hospital system on Earth, even at a satellite hospital  (Euclid).  Eight days later, released last night.

I definitely got the feeling that the people on the front lines are suspecting they've been sold a bill of goods by the modelers, as they of course hope they indeed have been.  There was speculation that next week will start to fill with the electives and those frightened away earlier.

MY ICU unit was as low as two patients (12 capacity) I think at one point and rarely over six.   

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39 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

Yep. And all of this just reinforces for me that we are on our own. We can't rely on our government nor our fellow citizens to do the right things.

I feel very badly for older people and people with pre-existing conditions who have no alternative but to be out amongst their fellow citizens right now.

 

I'm pretty much staying in for the foreseeable future.  I will only make trips that are absolutely necessary.  Otherwise, I am going to continue to live as if nothing has changed in terms of the danger... because it literally hasn't.  

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https://photos.citybeat.com/yall-forgot-how-to-social-distance-according-to-these-twitter-reacts-to-cincinnati-patios-reopening/?slide=1&screen-shot-2020-05-16-at-6-54-08-am-copy

 

Guys it's even worse than previously imagined. What the hell was going on in Cincinnati? It looks like nearly none of the Cincinnati bars were following social distancing rules!

 

I'm calling the Ohio health department and hopefully they will get shut down. 

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Let's hope that the opening day was a fluke and many establishments will take the mandates seriously and implement them or else they will be shut down. 

My wife and I went to Brewdog yesterday evening with a reservation and they executed social distancing protocols perfectly. 

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33 minutes ago, troeros said:

https://photos.citybeat.com/yall-forgot-how-to-social-distance-according-to-these-twitter-reacts-to-cincinnati-patios-reopening/?slide=1&screen-shot-2020-05-16-at-6-54-08-am-copy

 

Guys it's even worse than previously imagined. What the hell was going on in Cincinnati? It looks like nearly none of the Cincinnati bars were following social distancing rules!

 

I'm calling the Ohio health department and hopefully they will get shut down. 

 

I think this is an example of magical thinking.  When people are scared or under heavy stress, they start pretending like the threat isn't real or will only effect other people, but not themselves.  It also explains all of the conspiracy theories, as some people have a hard time dealing with a crisis in straightforward terms and simple facts.  In both cases, people create more comforting false narratives rather than dealing with the unpleasant reality.  In most situations, that only hurts the individual or makes them look silly, but this time, it will get a ton of people killed.

 

DeWine was an absolute fool for thinking people would be responsible and for not requiring mask use.  It will undo all the decent work of the last few months, and it will happen quickly.

Edited by jonoh81

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46 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

It's the basis of our nation.   The people who felt that way in Europe came here.   You will never get past that and anything that would is potentially way worse than most diseases, certainly this one.

 

Did you know... hundreds or even thousands of cultures over the course of history have migrated away from or split off from their previous culture? Yet they still manage to be able to shirk hyperindividualism and self uber alles during inappropriate times for those things.

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36 minutes ago, taestell said:

Certainly looks like cases are on the upswing again to me...

cases.png

 

I assume this scale is for the whole world given the numbers.

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5 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

I can't help but notice how young most of the people in the pictures seem to be.

 

I doubt anyone on social media was hitting up bingo halls and the VFW.  

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1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 I guarantee you people will not accept *that* test method unless they feel it is absolutely and personally necessary.  Horrible.

There is absolutely no reason to order this type of test (swabs) unless you or your physician believe you are actively infected with SARS-CoV-2.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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51 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

I can't help but notice how young most of the people in the pictures seem to be.

 

The "young-and-invincible" demographic.

 

Below is a 20-second video of last night's non-social distancing at the Short North bar.  The best part is at the end, when someone at the table says "cheers everybody" and then tries to get the phone operator's attention by saying "dude .. dude" before clinking his Bud Light can with the phone operator's plastic cup.

 

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1 hour ago, richNcincy said:

Let's hope that the opening day was a fluke and many establishments will take the mandates seriously and implement them or else they will be shut down. 

My wife and I went to Brewdog yesterday evening with a reservation and they executed social distancing protocols perfectly. 

I'm sure a lot of these bars are not the type that normally have bouncers and door staff.  They aren't really equipped to deal with mass crowds showing up and denying them access.   

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Not so sure about that. Rosedale in OTR usually has a bouncer at the door and, as the Reddit post above shows, there's no effort being made to limit the number of people inside to a safe amount or enforce distancing.

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3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

It's the basis of our nation.   The people who felt that way in Europe came here.   You will never get past that and anything that would is potentially way worse than most diseases, certainly this one.

 

A fallacy. Very few people came to America in search of liberty. Most came here because they and/or their children were hungry.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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An update from Cincinnati Council Member Chris Seelbach

 

 

My question is: Why the hell did the governor not put in Capacity Limits like most states are doing for Bars and Resturaunts?

 

How in the living hell are you supposed to contact trace if a cluster breaks out from one of the mass crowds at these bars?

 

I'm just a regular dude on the internet, why do I know more of the obvious answers and solutions than these smart, college educated, elected officials?

 

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1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

I'm sure a lot of these bars are not the type that normally have bouncers and door staff.  They aren't really equipped to deal with mass crowds showing up and denying them access.   

 

Haha, taprooms ordinarily barely even have anything like that. If they do, they're really sneaky about it.

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A third of all hospitalized patients are getting serious blood clots:

 

Quote

Coronavirus: A third of hospital patients develop dangerous blood clots

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52662065

 

"Sticky blood" resulting in pulmonary embolisms, heart attacks, strokes...the virus just keeps on giving.

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5 hours ago, troeros said:

https://photos.citybeat.com/yall-forgot-how-to-social-distance-according-to-these-twitter-reacts-to-cincinnati-patios-reopening/?slide=1&screen-shot-2020-05-16-at-6-54-08-am-copy

 

Guys it's even worse than previously imagined. What the hell was going on in Cincinnati? It looks like nearly none of the Cincinnati bars were following social distancing rules!

 

I'm calling the Ohio health department and hopefully they will get shut down. 

 

Whelp, this was upvoted to the front page of reddit...way more people are going to publish new stories about this in the coming days I bet. I home the governor will be humble enough to admit he was wrong and place capicity limits for bars and restaurants. Without capicity limits this will happen over and over again and at some point cripple our ability to reopen the econemy because of rising cases and deaths. 

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9 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Too much hyperindividualism and belief in self over society.

 

 

ha, well yes its definitely self involvement, but actually its just too much ignorance of society vs it being anything purposeful. both of those things, self involvement and lack of social awareness outside a peer group, are well known landmarks of development in twenty somethings. they cant help it, their brains are not formed yet to notice there is a world around them. 

 

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6 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I'm sure a lot of these bars are not the type that normally have bouncers and door staff.  They aren't really equipped to deal with mass crowds showing up and denying them access.   

 

 

agreed. this situation would definitely happen all over in ny too. being not open, as of now they have the doors open, but partly blocked out here and they bring you out drinks and stuff. there are no cops enforcing open drinking anywhere. in fact there are no cops. a few places, like some coffee shops, allow you in on your honor one at a time. i dont see how places can just reopen fully without being slammed immediately. the openings should be with mandated capacity limits, like 50% or something, with enforcement, meaning door staff. how can anyone be surprized like this about pent up demand? especially with nice weather from now out.

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3 hours ago, mrnyc said:

jeffrey tucker is a nitwit, but otherwise this is an interesting comparison to the 1968-70 hong kong flu epidemic, which got almost no publicity — and why that was:

 

 

https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life-went-on-as-normal-during-the-killer-pandemic-of-1969/amp/

 

It's not a great comparison for a lot of reasons.  The R0 rate was less than 2, so it wasn't particularly infectious compared to Covid's average of 6 or so.  It wasn't a novel virus, so there was some established immunity already present in the population.  The fatality rate also wasn't particularly high.  The 100K estimate for the US is with no restrictions in place at all.  We're rapidly approaching that even with most states shut down for 2 months, and it's likely already much higher than what's been confirmed.  I would not be surprised at all if the real death toll so far is between 125K-200K.

 

Only the 1918 flu has any real direct comparison in terms of severity and response, especially at this point in the pandemic.  So no, the premise that people in the 1960s were just somehow calmer and more rational is silly.

Edited by jonoh81

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10 hours ago, taestell said:

What would "herd immunity" look like in the US?

 

 

 

Fyi, I'm seeing a growing consensus around the IFR being 1.4%.


Very Stable Genius

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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22 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I'm sure a lot of these bars are not the type that normally have bouncers and door staff.  They aren't really equipped to deal with mass crowds showing up and denying them access.   

 

The irony is we were one of only two in Bedford who had a decent sized deck (as far as I know) and did have bouncers and door staff (me plus whoever I deputized), but we closed in September.   Otherwise, very much this.

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On 5/16/2020 at 11:51 AM, GCrites80s said:

 

Did you know... hundreds or even thousands of cultures over the course of history have migrated away from or split off from their previous culture? Yet they still manage to be able to shirk hyperindividualism and self uber alles during inappropriate times for those things.

 

We increased things you would call that.   I know it's not a popular view here, but I suspect there may be a genetic component to individualism and/or the importance one places on personal space.   If that's even slightly true, we skew that way.

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23 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

There is absolutely no reason to order this type of test (swabs) unless you or your physician believe you are actively infected with SARS-CoV-2.

 

If you are being admitted with any kind of breathing issue it is pretty much standard these days.

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22 hours ago, troeros said:

An update from Cincinnati Council Member Chris Seelbach

 

 

My question is: Why the hell did the governor not put in Capacity Limits like most states are doing for Bars and Resturaunts?

 

How in the living hell are you supposed to contact trace if a cluster breaks out from one of the mass crowds at these bars?

 

I'm just a regular dude on the internet, why do I know more of the obvious answers and solutions than these smart, college educated, elected officials?

 

 

Anyone here see just about every legally open bar (it was announced on a Sunday) in the state of Ohio the last day they were  open?

 

Packed is an understatement.

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1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

If you are being admitted with any kind of breathing issue it is pretty much standard these days.

I didn't realize you were hospitalized. Glad you recovered.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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I listened to a very interesting perspective on the news this morning. It was based on a class war of sorts.

 

It indicated a societal resentment on the part of the average individual to being told what to do/how to behave by the educated, white-collared, well educated and/or privileged government officials in this country. Even though the rules are based upon facts and truth. They prefer lies and alternate truths instead. After all, the "elite" are working and getting paid, while the average American, the "non-essential workers," are not.

 

It is their way of rebelling against what they consider to be the educated, privileged establishment.

 

What they fail to realize is that their rebellion will kill them and us too, if we let it.

 

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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So a few questions for anyone who might know... it's been reported that Wuhan testing has shown a 5-6% infection rate.  This lines up with what other places are finding.  

 

1. Is it possible that much more of the population has been infected, but are not developing antibodies and therefore not developing immunity, and that what the testing is showing is only the small percentage that has?

2. Is it possible that previous exposure to other types of coronaviruses have given some people a level of immunity against this despite being novel and that's why such low percentages are being found?

3. Is it possible any of this could mean that a second large surge won't happen?  

 

Edited by jonoh81

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^^^ I’m kinda surprised it took listening to a news article to highlight this to you, but I am glad you heard it. Anti-intellectualism is rampant in the USA and has been inflamed and sustained deliberately by those with the most to gain from it. i.e. ‘conservatives’. The GOP are a hair’s-breath away from going down a Ceausescu-like outlawing of Scrabble, or something equally ridiculous.  

Edited by roman totale XVII

And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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9 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ I’m kinda surprised it took listening to a news article to highlight this to you, but I am glad you heard it. Anti-intellectualism is rampant in the USA and has been inflamed and sustained deliberately by those with the most to gain from it. i.e. ‘conservatives’. The GOP are a hair’s-breath away from going down a Ceausescu-like outlawing of Scrabble, or something equally ridiculous.  

 

I guess I never really considered the possibility, but it explains so much; Trump's unwavering and unwarranted support, assault-weapon armed protesters, violations of social distancing rules and outright belligerence on the part of some of these individuals. It's sad that this is what this country has come to be.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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