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Coronavirus Pandemic

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1 hour ago, DarkandStormy said:
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Trump will use Defense Production Act to secure thousands of test kits

 

Yeah why wait so long? I hope this is being applied to ventilators, PPE, etc. as well-and if not, why? We need these things NOW....Oh wait..I forgot...BuT SoCiAlIsM!!!!!!

Edited by Toddguy

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39 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

Thanks...some fare good news for this thread.

For perspective, it's a molecular assay that tests for viral antigen. It detects active COVID-19 infection.

 

Next steps are the development of antibody tests.

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

How can a global pandemic NOT be political? Only governments are in a position to respond to national and global emergencies. Last I checked, government is inherently political -- especially when some governments so thoroughly screwed the pooch on the response.

see we are talking about 2 different things.   You are talking about government's response to the pandemic.  Criticizing Trump or others is fine, I'm not going to argue one bit.  Yes that's political.

 

I'm talking about peoples response to the pandemic.  It's affecting all across the spectrum, young/old, rich/poor, urban/rural, etc.  This is not political.  It's just human beings dealing with major challenges

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*edited because Politics, etc. I am not liking this Fox "town hall" bullsh#t.

 

This is just disgusting...now they have Dr. Oz(DR. F&*&ing OZ!!) speaking, but Fauci is nowhere to be seen.

 

*I despise Dr. Oz-damn crazy charlatan.

Edited by Toddguy

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I find the Michigan vs Ohio infection chart that cleveland.com published fascinating.  The only explanation offered is that Michigan conducted primary voting on March 10th.

VQALEPMDTNCAHC2PSIUGD67ZG4.png

Edited by Dougal

There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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^ such a strange virus.

 

 

for a bit of humor in this — my spouse just searched delivery services in our neighborhood and it seems feminist academic camille paglia is giving advice.


B3A8DFE6-4A81-40EA-919C-B7B611A4D1E3_zps

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2 new deaths in Ohio, one in Cuyahoga County, bringing the total to 8.

 

Hospitalizations by day:

 

3/17 - 17

3/18 - 26 (+9)

3/19 - 33 (+7)

3/20 - 39 (+6)

3/21 - 58 (+19)

3/22 - 83 (+25)

3/23 - 104 (+21)

3/24 - 145 (+41)

 

No sign of a slowdown yet.

Edited by jam40jeff

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1 hour ago, Dougal said:

I find the Michigan vs Ohio infection chart that cleveland.com published fascinating.  The only explanation offered is that Michigan conducted primary voting on March 10th.

VQALEPMDTNCAHC2PSIUGD67ZG4.png

I think it could be a reflection of Governor DeWine's proactive measures to contain the spread.

 

 new deaths in Ohio, one in Cuyahoga County, bringing the total to 8.

 

Hospitalizations by day:

 

3/17 - 17

3/18 - 26 (+9)

3/19 - 33 (+7)

3/20 - 39 (+6)

3/21 - 58 (+19)

3/22 - 83 (+25)

3/23 - 104 (+21)

3/24 - 145 (+41)

 

No sign of a slowdown yet.

 

Based upon reports, the virus has about a 10-14 day jump on us. Remember, it was circulating in communities before we were even aware. We may not see the results of the isolation for 10-14 days from now.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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Just now, Frmr CLEder said:

I think it could be a reflection of Governor DeWine's proactive measures to contain the spread.

 

The other suggestion (based on no facts) I got was that Michigan is doing much more testing than Ohio.


There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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4 hours ago, gottaplan said:

 

See there you did it again.  Trying to frame a general response of frustrated people as a "populist right"....   you think bartenders and servers out of work right now are right wing?  The 1,100 people laid off last week from Winking Lizard are a right wing political bunch?   

 

Try as you might, there's no fitting this in to a box.  People across all political & economic spectrums will be hurt & frustrated here.

 

I've worked in the restaurant industry for the last 15+ years.  Nearly every single one of my friends is in this industry- including Winking Lizard, where I worked for 6 years.  They're the ones most directly economically hurt by this shutdown.  Their entire livelihood is on the line.  I haven't heard a single one say that we should ditch the shutdown.  They know who the most exposed people are out there- it's them.

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3 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

The other suggestion (based on no facts) I got was that Michigan is doing much more testing than Ohio.

That's another possibility 

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5 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

2 new deaths in Ohio, one in Cuyahoga County, bringing the total to 8.

 

Hospitalizations by day:

 

3/17 - 17

3/18 - 26 (+9)

3/19 - 33 (+7)

3/20 - 39 (+6)

3/21 - 58 (+19)

3/22 - 83 (+25)

3/23 - 104 (+21)

3/24 - 145 (+41)

 

No sign of a slowdown yet.

 

jam's data with daily percentage growth included.

 

image.png.7de3411ea929a4b325699be6c47d4fca.png

 

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9 minutes ago, X said:

 

I've worked in the restaurant industry for the last 15+ years.  Nearly every single one of my friends is in this industry- including Winking Lizard, where I worked for 6 years.  They're the ones most directly economically hurt by this shutdown.  Their entire livelihood is on the line.  I haven't heard a single one say that we should ditch the shutdown.  They know who the most exposed people are out there- it's them.

Economically, they absolutely are the most exposed.

 

Miami is dominated by service workers and they rely heavily on tip income. We need to pressure our governments to help these people through this, not just corporate America.

 

As an aside, I also read an article yesterday that said, in contrast to Trump's wishes, there should be no bailout for the cruise industry ( Norwegian Royal Carribean, Carnival); they're all headquartered overseas to avoid paying us taxes.

 

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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It's pretty aggravating how Trump has now pivoted to push this all on the governors.  He's going to hide over in the corner and posit himself as the victim, like he has done his entire life.  

 

Cuomo's predictions are pretty grim.  He is estimating a need for 40,000 ventilators when his state only has 4,000.  So do the math on how many people will die without ICU aid - it could be over 10,000 in New York State alone.  

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4 minutes ago, audidave said:

It sounds like there was a big jump in Franklin county cases today. 

Up to 75 in Franklin County.

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2 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

It's pretty aggravating how Trump has now pivoted to push this all on the governors.  He's going to hide over in the corner and posit himself as the victim, like he has done his entire life.  

 

Cuomo's predictions are pretty grim.  He is estimating a need for 40,000 ventilators when his state only has 4,000.  So do the math on how many people will die without ICU aid - it could be over 10,000 in New York State alone.  

why lead and take responsibility when you can just pass the buck?

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For them to turn Javits CC into a hospital provides some real perspective.

 

That would be like converting Hunting CC or Med Mart into a hospital.

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11 minutes ago, freefourur said:

 

jam's data with daily percentage growth included.

 

image.png.7de3411ea929a4b325699be6c47d4fca.png

 

Since we know that not everyone carrying the virus is being tested, hospitalizations seem like a much better metric to track.

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Even though I'm no longer a resident and haven't liked some of DeWine's social policies, I've been impressed with his leadership during this pandemic.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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11 minutes ago, audidave said:

It sounds like there was a big jump in Franklin county cases today. 

 

I wonder if it has to do with OSU, Ohio Health, etc. catching up to the Cleveland Clinic.


Very Stable Genius

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13 hours ago, gottaplan said:

it's crazy to me how political this thread is....  it's a global virus pandemic...  not an election thread.  

 

And on that note, someone commented that "alot of republicans or libertarians" are questioning the economic impact over the death rate.   Yes, alot of people are questioning it but not any political class...

 

Ohio has 6 deaths thus far... and we have historic unemployment claims last week.  Almost 140k.  And this week will be worse.  If the shutdown lasts two weeks, Ohio will hit 500k of new unemployment filings.  These are bar/restaurant workers, retail workers, truck drivers, construction workers, car salesmen, etc etc.  It's not political to question if the means justify the ends of what's going on right now.  People's lives are being totally upended, in a BAD way.    Folks will be angry & desperate real soon.  Folks who previously weren't political at ALL will become political when they have nothing to do but sit at home and be angry.

 

Yes, it absolutely has been a particularly political group.  Don't be facetious.

 

There's no doubt that the economic toll will be terrible.  It will be terrible across the world in every single nation on the planet.  The US is not some economic island.  Even if Trump "opened the economy" (which doesn't seem to mean much of anything given that it has been the states rather than the federal government leading the lockdowns and closings), that would have zero bearing on the rest of the world and how their problems will inevitably still have a major impact on the US economy.  Trump can't magically save the US from economic harm at this point.

 

Furthermore, we have survived terrible economic times before.  It wasn't fun, people went hungry, they were desperate and jobless.  We made it through.  No one wants that, but it is preferable to being dead.  The argument that we must sacrifice a certain percentage of the population to death to save the stock market is just psychotic to me.  Who gets to decide who lives and dies?  And from a conservative/Republican standpoint, it doesn't make any sense.  The most vulnerable people are more likely to be Trump voters in terms of age demographics.  

 

 

 

Edited by jonoh81

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5 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

China had 79 (*reported*) new cases yesterday... 5 days after softening restrictions... 

 

The concerning thing is that most of the places that had slowed down are now speeding up again.  Some of this is due to easing restrictions, but another chunk is due to people arriving from other countries.  It just seems to mean that until there is a real treatment, vaccine or it burns out everywhere, there will likely be multiple waves across many nations.

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the governor press conferences are 1 million times more informative than Trump's bragathons.  I like the honest simplified explanations of what we're doing.  It is wholly non-political and I appreciate it.

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There will be waves of infection and that's the design (the rationale behind restrictions, then easing restrictions, then tightening them to manage the number of new infections).

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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5 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

To this end - I can't think of a single liberal on here who's been angry with DeWine's response... that frustration came from posters on the populist right

 

I don't like DeWine's social positions whatsoever, but he's done very well handling this crisis in Ohio, and I'm grateful for that.  I have family in Florida and their governor is awful.  Michigan has a Democrat in Whitman and she's doing terrible too.  In terms of the states, political party doesn't seem to mean much in terms of performance.  

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19 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

It's pretty aggravating how Trump has now pivoted to push this all on the governors.  He's going to hide over in the corner and posit himself as the victim, like he has done his entire life.  

 

Cuomo's predictions are pretty grim.  He is estimating a need for 40,000 ventilators when his state only has 4,000.  So do the math on how many people will die without ICU aid - it could be over 10,000 in New York State alone.  

Agree trump is dodging and ducking everything and blaming anyone.  The end result, however, will be that the US will have by and far the most cases (we will see about deaths and hospitalizations). But when it’s all said and done and the numbers are concrete....he’s going to be compared to other countries and world leaders. All the damage rolls all the way up to the top and it all happened under him.  No blame to be passed

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DeSantis of Florida has been terrible. He's a follower, not a leader.

 

Remember the pictures of the throngs of beachgoers in Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach and Clearwater? The mayor's had to step in to shut them down because the governor wouldnt. 

 

Now he's requiring a mandatory 14-day self-quarantine of visitors arriving on flights from the NYC area. It's ok though if they drive down on I-95.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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4 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I don't like DeWine's social positions whatsoever, but he's done very well handling this crisis in Ohio, and I'm grateful for that.  I have family in Florida and their governor is awful.  Michigan has a Democrat in Whitman and she's doing terrible too.  In terms of the states, political party doesn't seem to mean much in terms of performance.  

Correct.  A leader is a leader in 2020 politics.  Politician does not equal leader.  We have very few  leaders. I believe Dewine is one of them

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3 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

DeSantis of Florida has been terrible. He's a follower, not a leader.

 

Remember the pictures of the throngs of beachgoers in Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach and Clearwater? The mayor's had to step in to shut them down because the governor wouldnt. 

 

It's somewhat comforting in a way that one level of government can step in and do the right thing even as another level craps the bed.

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Somewhat, but I would imagine that from the perspective of managing a global pandemic we'd be far better off with better leadership at the highest level.  National borders don't stop a pandemic, but they can slow down its spread from place to place far better than the completely open borders of states.

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"It's somewhat comforting in a way that one level of government can step in and do the right thing even as another level craps the bed."

 

India, another densely populated country, has just gone into lockdown for 3 weeks.

 

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/coronavirus-cases-in-india-live-news-latest-updates-march24/liveblog/74784148.cms

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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5 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

And the Constitutionalist right.  

 

You're speaking to a former Federalist Society executive committee member... the Constitutionalist right hasn't had much issue with any restrictions thus far. I would've gotten spammed about it. 

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I think I'm more terrified of how this thing could go in India than I am anywhere else, except maybe Africa.  The crowding is unbelievable.

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1 minute ago, X said:

I think I'm more terrified of how this thing could go in India than I am anywhere else, except maybe Africa.  The crowding is unbelievable.

I believe that up to 30% of urban dwellers in India basically live in slums without running water. How do you practice social distancing and sanitary practices in those conditions, especially when you cannot quarantine one family member in a room-there are not enough rooms. Same for much of Africa. Even though the population is generally much younger, you also have inadequate(in normal times)health systems and many underlying conditions including things not generally found in more developed nations, such as widespread malnutrition in many areas. Add in the conflicts/wars in Africa, and you have a recipe for disaster.

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10 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

How do you practice social distancing and sanitary practices in those conditions, especially when you cannot quarantine one family member in a room-there are not enough rooms. 

 

It's going to be bad.  Many young people are going to witness their family members die in the home.  At least here it's mostly going to happen out of sight.   

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49 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

DeSantis of Florida has been terrible. He's a follower, not a leader.

 

Remember the pictures of the throngs of beachgoers in Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach and Clearwater? The mayor's had to step in to shut them down because the governor wouldnt. 

 

Now he's requiring a mandatory 14-day self-quarantine of visitors arriving on flights from the NYC area. It's ok though if they drive down on I-95.

 

I'm guessing a commercial aircraft is more conducive to the spread than a car.

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36 minutes ago, X said:

I think I'm more terrified of how this thing could go in India than I am anywhere else, except maybe Africa.  The crowding is unbelievable.

Interestingly enough, so far most of Africa has been spared.

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1 minute ago, E Rocc said:

 

I'm guessing a commercial aircraft is more conducive to the spread than a car.

Florida is considered the 6th burrough.

 

It doesn't matter. If you're an infected New Yorker and asymptomatic, it's just as easy to spread it in Florida whether you fly or drive.

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It would be interesting for urban geographers to study the link between spread of pandemics and global economic patterns. I suspect that areas that are more globally integrated, like Pacific Rim countries/North America, and Western Europe are getting hit first.

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"Nearly every problem that we have in the USA -- unaffordable health care, prison overpopulation, hyper militarization, climate change, racism, gun violence, poverty, poor education, urban sprawl and others -- cannot be positively addressed because bribery and conflicts of interest are legal under campaign finance laws which protect the uber-wealthy and the narrow self-interests who grossly benefit from our afflictions."

 

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30 minutes ago, X said:

I think I'm more terrified of how this thing could go in India than I am anywhere else, except maybe Africa.  The crowding is unbelievable.

 

Likewise.  My wife is Indian and her parents still live in India.  Their trip to the US in early June is likely to be cancelled.

 

India waited a surprisingly long time to enact stay-at-home measures, and there are limits to how effective even those kinds of policies can be in a place with so many cities that have densities that would make the densest European metros blush.  Barcelona is considered a very dense European metro and has 41,000 per square mile.  Mumbai has 73,000 and Chennai, 69,000.

 

From my trip there, in which we hit both of those cities, as well as "smaller" (still large) cities like Bangalore and Goa, Indians, at least those who live in cities, have zero cultural concept of social distancing.  Neither their cities nor their minds are built for it.  My in-laws are upper-middle-class in Indian society and live in a condo that's about 1400 square feet, in a complex of 5 floors that probably has 100+ such units.  That's considered spacious.  Cranes were all over the skyline of Mumbai, most building residential towers.  People walk everywhere, which is usually a good thing, but those walks even outside of major downtowns are crowded.

 

I live in West Akron, not out in the townships.  Lots here are around 0.2 acres.  When they come, they're always like, "wow, we can't believe you live so far out with no people around!"

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38 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

I believe that up to 30% of urban dwellers in India basically live in slums without running water. How do you practice social distancing and sanitary practices in those conditions, especially when you cannot quarantine one family member in a room-there are not enough rooms. Same for much of Africa. Even though the population is generally much younger, you also have inadequate(in normal times)health systems and many underlying conditions including things not generally found in more developed nations, such as widespread malnutrition in many areas. Add in the conflicts/wars in Africa, and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

India is Italy squared in that regard.

But......don't they have malaria?   Is Hydroxycloroquine is use there?

 

Apparently it is in Africa and they aren't seeing much COVID.

Edited by E Rocc

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1 hour ago, X said:

It would be interesting for urban geographers to study the link between spread of pandemics and global economic patterns. I suspect that areas that are more globally integrated, like Pacific Rim countries/North America, and Western Europe are getting hit first.

Agreed. Could be why Cleveland is leading Ohio in COVID-19 cases and NYC as an (Alpha ++) city is overwhelmed. Globalization comes at a cost.

 

Cleveland's a (Gamma +) city. All other Ohio cities are lower in the pecking order for globalization.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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