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Coronavirus Pandemic

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35 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

To be clear, I'm not arguing that the restrictions in place are unwarranted.  My point is that it's silly to try and classify anyone as "R" or D or L because of there response to the restrictions is silly.  The group of impacted people is just far too large.  And people are going to become desperate.

 

The only thing that has been said is that polls are showing that Rs aren't taking this as seriously and across the country it is R politicians that are trying to downplay things (with some exceptions, like DeWine). These are facts. There is no speculation going on. 

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21 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Sounds like Trump is backtracking on the need to maintain the national emergency due to the economic impact.

 

It sounds like his advisors have finally been able to get him to sit down and listen to the predictions of 20% unemployment, another "Great Depression", etc.   Now he's freaking about the the economy.

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4 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

It sounds like his advisors have finally been able to get him to sit down and listen to the predictions of 20% unemployment, another "Great Depression", etc.   Now he's freaking about the the economy.

 

China had 79 (*reported*) new cases yesterday... 5 days after softening restrictions... 

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2 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

The only thing that has been said is that polls are showing that Rs aren't taking this as seriously and across the country it is R politicians that are trying to downplay things (with some exceptions, like DeWine). These are facts. There is no speculation going on. 

 

That's not the ONLY thing that's being said.  Some of you just can't help yourself.  You make everything political.  It's sad.  

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1 minute ago, gottaplan said:

 

That's not the ONLY thing that's being said.  Some of you just can't help yourself.  You make everything political.  It's sad.  

 

How can a global pandemic NOT be political? Only governments are in a position to respond to national and global emergencies. Last I checked, government is inherently political -- especially when some governments so thoroughly screwed the pooch on the response.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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So ladies and gents... let me put politics aside and give you some insight into what obstacles you all may be facing:

  • Many of you know I'm a data privacy and cybersecurity attorney
  • For those of you familiar with billable hours of an attorney - I've billed 94 hours since Tuesday.
  • Covid-19 has presented itself as a unique opportunity for threat actors to exploit fear, and that they have. 
    • If/when a stimulus package comes through, do NOT reply to any emails re: the stimulus or open any attachments associated therewith. Distribution correspondence will likely come by mail. 
  • Do not register yourself or a loved one for Covid-19 testing online UNLESS you are absolutely certain that you're in a secure client portal. 
  • Do not open emails purporting to be from Health and Human Services - most of which are phishing emails with redirects to sites wherein ransomware and other malware payloads can be downloaded. 

Just PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remain diligent and please tell your family members, especially those who are elderly or scared, the same. 

 

FWIW - www.bleepingcomputer.com is a great resource to stay up to date on current threats

Edited by YABO713

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14 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

That's not the ONLY thing that's being said.  Some of you just can't help yourself.  You make everything political.  It's sad.  

 

People here have praised politicians on both sides of the aisle if they've handled the response well and criticized politicians on both sides of the aisle if they've handled it poorly.

 

I don't think there's any "there" there.


Very Stable Genius

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11 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

People here have praised politicians on both sides of the aisle if they've handled the response well and criticized politicians on both sides of the aisle if they've handled it poorly.

 

I don't think there's any "there" there.

 

To this end - I can't think of a single liberal on here who's been angry with DeWine's response... that frustration came from posters on the populist right

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15 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

So ladies and gents... let me put politics aside and give you some insight into what obstacles you all may be facing:

  • Many of you know I'm a data privacy and cybersecurity attorney
  • For those of you familiar with billable hours of an attorney - I've billed 94 hours since Tuesday.
  • Covid-19 has presented itself as a unique opportunity for threat actors to exploit fear, and that they have. 
    • If/when a stimulus package comes through, do NOT reply to any emails re: the stimulus or open any attachments associated therewith. Distribution correspondence will likely come by mail. 
  • Do not register yourself or a loved one for Covid-19 testing online UNLESS you are absolutely certain that you're in a secure client portal. 
  • Do not open emails purporting to be from Health and Human Services - most of which are phishing emails with redirects to sites wherein ransomware and other malware payloads can be downloaded. 

Just PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remain diligent and please tell your family members, especially those who are elderly or scared, the same. 

 

FWIW - www.bleepingcomputer.com is a great resource to stay up to date on current threats

 

Hmmm, which demographic is simultaneously the most vulnerable to believe the talking points downplaying the threat of COVID-19 coming from Fox News/POTUS, the most vulnerable health-wise to the virus, AND the most vulnerable to cyberattacks that are coming in the aftermath?


Very Stable Genius

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5 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

To this end - I can't think of a single liberal on here who's been angry with DeWine's response... that frustration came from posters on the populist right

 

And the Constitutionalist right.  

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I heard on 700 WLW last night a prominent caller going off about how Governor DeWine is overstepping his boundaries and Amy Acton cannot be trusted and is a worshiper of abortion and we need to find a way to get her out of office. We need to get back to work right now and let the chips fall where they may...

 

To think, if we only had been prepared... across the United States with testing protocol, we could have severely limited this virus from the get go and mostly kept moving on with our lives. We definitely are able to but failed to do so... and all these people now are going to be mad at anyone but the administration when it was their decision to let this lie and overwhelm us. States and Health Directors have no other choice because WE.DONT.KNOW.WHERE.THE.VIRUS.IS

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7 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

To this end - I can't think of a single liberal on here who's been angry with DeWine's response... that frustration came from posters on the populist right

 

See there you did it again.  Trying to frame a general response of frustrated people as a "populist right"....   you think bartenders and servers out of work right now are right wing?  The 1,100 people laid off last week from Winking Lizard are a right wing political bunch?   

 

Try as you might, there's no fitting this in to a box.  People across all political & economic spectrums will be hurt & frustrated here.

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1 minute ago, gottaplan said:

See there you did it again.  Trying to frame a general response of frustrated people as a "populist right"....   you think bartenders and servers out of work right now are right wing?  The 1,100 people laid off last week from Winking Lizard are a right wing political bunch?

 

I honestly haven't seen a single bartender, restaurant worker, or even restaurant owner who is angry at DeWine's response. And I follow a lot of them on social media. They are all very calm, saying that they understand the need to shut down right now, even if it is hurting their business/livelihood in the short term.

 

The only people I've seen who are angry and demanding we reopen everything immediately are Laura Ingram and Ron Paul.

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6 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

I heard on 700 WLW last night a prominent caller going off about how Governor DeWine is overstepping his boundaries and Amy Acton cannot be trusted and is a worshiper of abortion and we need to find a way to get her out of office. We need to get back to work right now and let the chips fall where they may...

 

To think, if we only had been prepared... across the United States with testing protocol, we could have severely limited this virus from the get go and mostly kept moving on with our lives. We definitely are able to but failed to do so... and all these people now are going to be mad at anyone but the administration when it was their decision to let this lie and overwhelm us. States and Health Directors have no other choice because WE.DONT.KNOW.WHERE.THE.VIRUS.IS

I find it funny how we've gone from "COVID is the flu and we have it contained" to "ching chong China virus is a pandemic and Dear Leader has known for longer than anyone" and now back to "COVID is the flu."  but this is where we are.

Edited by freefourur

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3 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

I honestly haven't seen a single bartender, restaurant worker, or even restaurant owner who is angry at DeWine's response. And I follow a lot of them on social media. They are all very calm, saying that they understand the need to shut down right now, even if it is hurting their business/livelihood in the short term.

 

The only people I've seen who are angry and demanding we reopen everything immediately are Laura Ingram and Ron Paul.

following someone on social media is different from knowing them.  I know people who work in Warehouse district, flats east bank, etc.  They are hurting bad and it's going to get a lot worse.  Trust me, they are angry

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7 minutes ago, taestell said:

The only people I've seen who are angry and demanding we reopen everything immediately are Laura Ingram and Ron Paul.

 

The Lt. Governor of Texas - basically said it was patriotic for the elderly to sacrifice themselves for the economic well-being of their kids and grandkids.


Very Stable Genius

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6 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I find it funny how we've gone from "COVID is the flu and we have it contained" to "ching chong China virus is a pandemic and Dear Leader has known for longer than anyone" and now back to "COVID is the flu."  but this is where we are.

 

-This is nothing.

-We have it basically airtight.

-Wow, this is bad.  We're at war.  (Leaving out the months of warnings that were ignored by many in federal government)

-Ok, we tried to shelter-in-place for a day, but I need my Applebee's.  This isn't worth it.

-Let's "re-open" (what does this even mean, coming from POTUS?) the economy because stonks are down.

-Old people should sacrifice themselves for the sake of the stonks.


Very Stable Genius

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1 minute ago, DarkandStormy said:

The Lt. Governor of Texas - basically said it was patriotic for the elderly to sacrifice themselves for the economic well-being of their kids and grandkids.

 

Why don't we have an experiment? Texas can go back to work, reopen all businesses, act like this is just the flu, and see what happens. Don't come crying to the federal government when your hospital systems are overwhelmed. When someone breaks their arms and legs in a car crash and can't go to the hospital because the ICU is full...sorry about your luck.

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1 minute ago, taestell said:

 

Why don't we have an experiment? Texas can go back to work, reopen all businesses, act like this is just the flu, and see what happens. Don't come crying to the federal government when your hospital systems are overwhelmed. When someone breaks their arms and legs in a car crash and can't go to the hospital because the ICU is full...sorry about your luck.

Let's make sure to close off their borders before hand.  

Edited by freefourur

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1 hour ago, gottaplan said:

To be clear, I'm not arguing that the restrictions in place are unwarranted.  My point is that it's silly to try and classify anyone as "R" or D or L because of there response to the restrictions is silly.  The group of impacted people is just far too large.  And people are going to become desperate.

 

And for what it's worth, people DIE because of economic crisis too.  They become jobless, homeless.... they don't eat, they don't take essential medicines... they consume alcohol or drugs that they normally wouldn't....   so there are health impacts of the economic crisis that will be coming forward also.

 

I hear this argument about the economic impact on things like addiction, homelessness, depression, etc.  Its a very true and real argument and im sensative of that.  HOWEVER, Ill go with the odds that in several cases,  people impacted by that spinoff will have family, friends, loved ones, co workers, that they can turn to for living arrangements, food, etc.  Sure, there will be those who do not. But its not a time to be proud and not ask mom or dad or friends for help.  This is going to be a team play by all parties to get through this.  For those who do have some type of support system, they have more than the cohort of people being attacked by this virus.

 

Once the virus has passed, the people who have been knocked down will at least have a chance to pick themselves up.

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I think that the question of weighing the economic impact of all this is a perfectly legitimate question to ask.

 

However, the right is going to devolve into their usual not believing scientists/experts/etc and conspiracies.

 

Meanwhile, Nate Silver said it most concisely... The best thing we can do in the long term for the economy is beat the virus. The right will not grasp this simple fact. They are consumed with short term thinking and can't see what would have happened if we didn't do all of this.

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57 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

 

That's not the ONLY thing that's being said.  Some of you just can't help yourself.  You make everything political.  It's sad.  

 

Thoughts and prayers to you, my friend.

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Yeah I mean I think it's pretty simple, if we don't beat the virus right away, it will haunt us for a much longer time.

 

There is no doubt the lethality of this disease and if it gets out of hand the wreckage it would cause . 

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Those making the economic argument are not really providing the actual choices. The choice is not between "shelter in place and wreck economy" and "open up the country and fix economy." It's between shelter in place and defeat the enemy or give up and destroy the economy any and maybe even the fabric of society.

 

I don't know where the magical idea that if we all go back to work that everything will return to normal comes from. But it won't happen.

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2 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

Yeah I mean I think it's pretty simple, if we don't beat the virus right away, it will haunt us for a much longer time.

 

There is no doubt the lethality of this disease and if it gets out of hand the wreckage it would cause . 

The only way to beat it is to cut off it's ability to transmit or to allow it to run rampant.  Until a vaccine is available those are the only choices.

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In a couple of weeks we'll see if the actions by the East Coast, West Coast, and Great Lakes states was ultimately beneficial. We might see Florida hit really hard, as their governor has refused to take action. Next time this happens we'll have a better case study for what to do.

 

I agree though, we shouldn't pretend that reopening everything will have similar health impacts, and magically fix the economy at the same time.

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I can see if there are no active vectors in Ohio and things have leveled off, restaurants will be allowed to reopen with strict new rules.  Perhaps no more than 4 to a table. Limited capacity to 50% or perhaps based on square footage per seat. 

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I would recommend that people listen to this episode of the Ezra Klein Show where he interviews Ron Klain, who served as Obama’s Ebola czar. He has first hand experience dealing with a health crisis like this, and I learned a lot from the episode. One thing he explained is that our hospital systems are designed to run at nearly 100% capacity all the time. This is true in countries like the US and in countries with socialized healthcare. Hospitals are very expensive and it doesn't make sense to build much extra capacity. Likewise, we don't have vaccine factories that are sitting idle and not making vaccines -- they are already making flu shots, MMR vaccines, etc. They need time to ramp up production of a new vaccine. This is why it is so important to "flatten the curve" and reduce the spread now. If we act like this is the flu and go back to "normal", it's going to be chaos.

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9 minutes ago, freefourur said:

Those making the economic argument are not really providing the actual choices. The choice is not between "shelter in place and wreck economy" and "open up the country and fix economy." It's between shelter in place and defeat the enemy or give up and destroy the economy any and maybe even the fabric of society.

 

I don't know where the magical idea that if we all go back to work that everything will return to normal comes from. But it won't happen.

 

They are making *an* argument, I suppose.  It's that the elderly should sacrifice themselves, collectively.

 

Those making "but the economy" arguments don't actually care about workers or the people who are out of work from all these measures.  You see that in what they're proposing in the stimulus bill.  They want to ease the shutdown measures because it's hurting their stonks.  They care more about the fruits of people's labors than the people themselves.


Very Stable Genius

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2 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I don't know where the magical idea that if we all go back to work that everything will return to normal comes from. But it won't happen.

 

Exactly. I just don't know what to think about some people anymore, except that they're really, really dumb, and fortunate to be born in a society where they have it so easy that there is very few consequences to their idiocy.

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1 hour ago, gottaplan said:

 

That's not the ONLY thing that's being said.  Some of you just can't help yourself.  You make everything political.  It's sad.  

 

This issue IS political. I don't know how you could argue otherwise. How our elected leaders respond is relevant, no? 

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1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

So ladies and gents... let me put politics aside and give you some insight into what obstacles you all may be facing:

  • Many of you know I'm a data privacy and cybersecurity attorney
  • For those of you familiar with billable hours of an attorney - I've billed 94 hours since Tuesday.
  • Covid-19 has presented itself as a unique opportunity for threat actors to exploit fear, and that they have. 
    • If/when a stimulus package comes through, do NOT reply to any emails re: the stimulus or open any attachments associated therewith. Distribution correspondence will likely come by mail. 
  • Do not register yourself or a loved one for Covid-19 testing online UNLESS you are absolutely certain that you're in a secure client portal. 
  • Do not open emails purporting to be from Health and Human Services - most of which are phishing emails with redirects to sites wherein ransomware and other malware payloads can be downloaded. 

Just PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remain diligent and please tell your family members, especially those who are elderly or scared, the same. 

 

FWIW - www.bleepingcomputer.com is a great resource to stay up to date on current threats

Thanks for continuing to pound the pavement. Many professions have a calling to keep this thing going and people informed and safe.

 

My company provides all of the supply chain to many of the hospitals around the country, including three of the biggest systems in NYC.  So while my company is very busy, my branch of our company which is IT solutions in a specific area of hospital expense has gradually moved to a snails pace.  Hospitals arent currently focused on their costs right now, they are focused on managing these cases.  So i feel kind of helpless and my attention has turned to keeping my family safe and i cant do much but tip my cap to people still performing their jobs (especially the healthcare, grocery and first responders)

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1 hour ago, DarkandStormy said:


Studies have been out for weeks that show liberals are taking this pandemic more seriously - as much as 2x more seriously - than conservatives.

 

It has been my observation that liberal white people are taking it much more seriously than black Americans, who overwhelmingly vote Democrat.  When this is over, I have no doubt that the black mortality rate will be higher. 

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1 hour ago, gottaplan said:

 

That's not the ONLY thing that's being said.  Some of you just can't help yourself.  You make everything political.  It's sad.  

 

The entire country is making this political.  If it wasn't political, how could polls be this stratified by political party?

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/816501871/poll-as-coronavirus-spreads-fewer-americans-see-pandemic-as-a-real-threat

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53 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

To this end - I can't think of a single liberal on here who's been angry with DeWine's response... that frustration came from posters on the populist right

Correct, unlike DeSantis of FL, DeWine, Cuomo of NY and Newsome of CA have demonstrated the leadership that had been lacking in Washington.

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5 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

It has been my observation that liberal white people are taking it much more seriously than black Americans, who overwhelmingly vote Democrat.  When this is over, I have no doubt that the black mortality rate will be higher. 

I don't think that is true either. Lets not make generalizations. 

 

"Not all Chinese people are caronavirus carriers."

 

Everyone I know is taking it quite seriously.

Edited by Frmr CLEder

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32 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

I think that the question of weighing the economic impact of all this is a perfectly legitimate question to ask.

 

However, the right is going to devolve into their usual not believing scientists/experts/etc and conspiracies.

 

Your second statement shows why it's not a legitimate question to ask.  

 

The choice isn't collective health vs. economy.  The choice is following the advice of scientists, doctors, and experts vs. listening to people who have no idea what they're talking about.  It's irresponsible and misleading to frame this as a legitimate debate.


Very Stable Genius

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"The choice isn't collective health vs. economy.  The choice is following the advice of scientists, doctors, and experts vs. listening to people who have no idea what they're talking about."

 

Can we do both? No

 

How can we maintain public health while minimizing the economic impact? That's why we have elected officials, Rep, Dem or Ind

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Let's add perspective around the seriousness...

 

LAS VEGAS CASINOS ARE CLOSED

 

Do you know how much money is being lost every hour those casinos are closed? This is serious.

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2 minutes ago, skiwest said:

On the flip side, gamblers are not losing any money, at least not at casinos.

Gamblers are finding a way. That I am sure of.

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9 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Let's add perspective around the seriousness...

 

LAS VEGAS CASINOS ARE CLOSED

 

Do you know how much money is being lost every hour those casinos are closed? This is serious.

 

Trump's own administration acknowledges the seriousness.   The problem is, Trump himself seems to blow in the wind, waking up and tweeting about whatever he feels that morning. 

 

Coronavirus could mean 20% unemployment rate without government action: Mnuchin

Rate could near levels seen during the Great Depression if the government does not intervene, Treasury secretary says

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/coronavirus-unemployment-rate-estimate-mnuchin

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3 minutes ago, skiwest said:

On the flip side, gamblers are not losing any money, at least not at casinos.

 

The state lotteries are probably seeing a massive uptick in sales.  

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20 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Trump's own administration acknowledges the seriousness.   The problem is, Trump himself seems to blow in the wind, waking up and tweeting about whatever he feels that morning. 

 

Coronavirus could mean 20% unemployment rate without government action: Mnuchin

Rate could near levels seen during the Great Depression if the government does not intervene, Treasury secretary says

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/coronavirus-unemployment-rate-estimate-mnuchin

 

At least casinos losing money is something Trump has real, verified experience with. Unless he was just licensing his name to the casino at the time Atlantic City started melting down.

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Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard’s School of Public Health, on Monday issued a stark warning about the dearth of testing for the coronavirus in the U.S.

In an opinion column for The Washington Post, Lipsitch ripped “the feckless federal response” in speeding up testing delays, which he said meant “most cases here are not being confirmed, even now.”

He said the true number of people infected with the virus in the U.S. could be more than 10 times higher than the confirmed figure.

 

As of Tuesday morning, the virus had sickened more than 46,000 nationwide. It had killed 582.

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3 hours ago, gottaplan said:

To be clear, I'm not arguing that the restrictions in place are unwarranted.  My point is that it's silly to try and classify anyone as "R" or D or L because of there response to the restrictions is silly.  The group of impacted people is just far too large.  And people are going to become desperate.

 

And for what it's worth, people DIE because of economic crisis too.  They become jobless, homeless.... they don't eat, they don't take essential medicines... they consume alcohol or drugs that they normally wouldn't....   so there are health impacts of the economic crisis that will be coming forward also.

True enough. But those are choices. And this is why mental health and addiction services should be increased as well-much of that can be done online-I am seeing my therapist online at 1pm today for instance.  Same thing with making sure people have food, meds, do not get evicted or foreclosed on, etc. Some of this involves people making the right choices just as people who are at high risk need to make the right choices as well-basically self quarantine if necessary. And of course this means getting money for essentials straight to the public. We can't do this shutdown in a vacuum-the nation is going to have to step up-but that may be hard given how divided we are, and given some of our leadership, particularly at the highest levels.

 

I agree that it is far too simplistic to use the R/D/L/C labels given how varied the different groups are.

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