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Cleveland: Random Development and Construction

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

I should have included FEB phase 3, but I'm getting expressions/senses of doubt from sources that it will get built. Not information, mind you, just "feelings." Could be unwarranted pessimism. We'll see. 

Why is is FEB constantly having issues getting stated. It is like the lakefront project. 

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17 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

Because the waterfront line doesn't run frequently enough.

 

Obviously financing is the main factor, but I’m with you on your frustrations on the Waterfront Line.  How infuriating is it to hear both Wolstein and FEB visitors complaining about traffic in and out of the Flats while simultaneously getting proposals from RTA that involve eliminating Waterfront Line service? It’s just mind numbing. Run frequent WL service to the Muni lots (and Tower City) Thurs-Sat evenings. Promote the hell out of it. Flats traffic problem solved. 

Edited by Boomerang_Brian
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3 hours ago, simplythis said:

Why is is FEB constantly having issues getting stated. It is like the lakefront project. 

 

 I'm not sure Cleveland is a "micro-apartment" market, as Kennect proposes. Why would millennials want to live in 500 sq ft, barely room for their stuff, when in Cleveland they can afford more? I keep expecting to hear about a revision to the concept.

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On 8/1/2019 at 2:22 AM, Dougal said:

 

 I'm not sure Cleveland is a "micro-apartment" market, as Kennect proposes. Why would millennials want to live in 500 sq ft, barely room for their stuff, when in Cleveland they can afford more? I keep expecting to hear about a revision to the concept.

 

It's crazy to think a market the size of Cleveland couldn't handle a few hundred micro apartments. Hell, we could probably use a few thousand.

 

And downtown Cleveland isn't that affordable, even comparatively speaking.

 

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2019/07/29/university-circles-rent-prices-have-grown-nearly-50-percent-over-past-year-new-report-finds

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On 8/1/2019 at 2:22 AM, Dougal said:

 

 I'm not sure Cleveland is a "micro-apartment" market, as Kennect proposes. Why would millennials want to live in 500 sq ft, barely room for their stuff, when in Cleveland they can afford more? I keep expecting to hear about a revision to the concept.

 

500 sq feet really is enough space for anyone. I know plenty of people who have lived in smaller spaces, plus millennials are known for having less stuff than the previous few generations. But ultimately, price drives economic activity.  A lot of people would like to live Downtown but can't afford $2000/month--which comes with space they don't need but its the cheapest out there. Many would gladly pay $1100 for a smaller place if it were Downtown.

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Just now, Pugu said:

 

500 sq feet really is enough space for anyone. I know plenty of people who have lived in smaller spaces, plus millennials are known for having less stuff than the previous few generations. But ultimately, price drives economic activity.  A lot of people would like to live Downtown but can't afford $2000/month--which comes with space they don't need but its the cheapest out there. Many would gladly pay $1100 for a smaller place if it were Downtown.

That's my thought. At $2.50 psf a 500sf apartment is $1,250 per month which is doable for renters and makes new construction more likely. 

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On 8/2/2019 at 10:39 AM, freefourur said:

That's my thought. At $2.50 psf a 500sf apartment is $1,250 per month which is doable for renters and makes new construction more likely. 

 

Preface—please PM me if you know how to quote something between threads, because I wanted to quote this but move to FEB thread. Now that that’s out of the way:

 

In my personal, and possibly humble, opinion,  the issue bigger than micro-apartments is lack of neighborhood character. I’d be happy to move into a small apartment if the community around me were desirable. I’d be happy to shell out more for a bigger place for the same reason. 

 

FEB is missing fundamental components needed for a happy community. It’s a bunch of bars and clubs with no neighborhood amenities. The office tower has an overpriced, limited-selection, always closed “grocery store.” The office tower also has an incredibly subpar—and almost always closed—coffee shop.

 

If I’m moving somewhere, I’d want a coffee shop, a dessert place, a pharmacy, a bookstore, etc. The things that add variety and convenience to an otherwise mundane and hectic life. 

 

FEB has the same businesses in 30 different varieties (i.e., weekend watering holes), but nothing else. It’s just far enough away from CVS and Heinen’s—especially because of the psychological effect of the hill and WHD parking lots—that it feels like an island of futility. 

 

Increasing frequency of the waterfront line won’t help. For years, I traveled between my office in Terminal Tower, meetings at EY, and my apartment at Reserve Square. Grant you, I would walk from TT to EY most of the time since the waterfront didn’t line up with my meeting schedule, but even so, that walk isn’t bad.

 

It’s more that the waterfront line doesn’t get you anywhere from FEB. Once you get to TT, you still have to walk to CVS or Heinen’s and then all the way back (with groceries). You could also take the trolley (which I often did), but even that doesn’t get you up/down the hill—and you’re stuck going around public square and around all of downtown, to get home. It often leaves walking as the most expeditious, albeit still inconvenient, option. 

 

If I have the option of settling in the Flats and adding the walks to my chaotic life—or saving some money to be at a less nice and shottily managed apartment (here’s to you, K&D) closer to the weekly needs rather than the weekend wants—I’ll take shitty K&D every time... (or follow my GF to Cleveland Heights against my will 😭). 

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I agree with everything youre saying above....except for the K&D hate.....I just havent experienced bad service or management.  They do a fantastic job at the Halle building

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2 hours ago, Clevecane said:

 

Preface—please PM me if you know how to quote something between threads, because I wanted to quote this but move to FEB thread. Now that that’s out of the way:

 

In my personal, and possibly humble, opinion,  the issue bigger than micro-apartments is lack of neighborhood character. I’d be happy to move into a small apartment if the community around me were desirable. I’d be happy to shell out more for a bigger place for the same reason. 

 

FEB is missing fundamental components needed for a happy community. It’s a bunch of bars and clubs with no neighborhood amenities. The office tower has an overpriced, limited-selection, always closed “grocery store.” The office tower also has an incredibly subpar—and almost always closed—coffee shop.

 

If I’m moving somewhere, I’d want a coffee shop, a dessert place, a pharmacy, a bookstore, etc. The things that add variety and convenience to an otherwise mundane and hectic life. 

 

FEB has the same businesses in 30 different varieties (i.e., weekend watering holes), but nothing else. It’s just far enough away from CVS and Heinen’s—especially because of the psychological effect of the hill and WHD parking lots—that it feels like an island of futility. 

 

Increasing frequency of the waterfront line won’t help. For years, I traveled between my office in Terminal Tower, meetings at EY, and my apartment at Reserve Square. Grant you, I would walk from TT to EY most of the time since the waterfront didn’t line up with my meeting schedule, but even so, that walk isn’t bad.

 

It’s more that the waterfront line doesn’t get you anywhere from FEB. Once you get to TT, you still have to walk to CVS or Heinen’s and then all the way back (with groceries). You could also take the trolley (which I often did), but even that doesn’t get you up/down the hill—and you’re stuck going around public square and around all of downtown, to get home. It often leaves walking as the most expeditious, albeit still inconvenient, option. 

 

If I have the option of settling in the Flats and adding the walks to my chaotic life—or saving some money to be at a less nice and shottily managed apartment (here’s to you, K&D) closer to the weekly needs rather than the weekend wants—I’ll take shitty K&D every time... (or follow my GF to Cleveland Heights against my will 😭). 

I did see the free trolley down at the round about by Lindsey's Lakehouse. Don't know if that was a one off thing or part of the normal schedule.

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20 minutes ago, mack34 said:

I agree with everything youre saying above....except for the K&D hate.....I just havent experienced bad service or management.  They do a fantastic job at the Halle building

 

Good to hear! They’ve done an awful job of maintaining TT—we hear horror stories of broken stuff and lack of resolution from many of our co-tenants. And the elevators at RS we’re habitually broken. Hopefully they’re O&M budget can mature with their square footage. 

 

4 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

I did see the free trolley down at the round about by Lindsey's Lakehouse. Don't know if that was a one off thing or part of the normal schedule.

 

Interesting—looks like they’ve added FEB to the C-line since I moved out of downtown. Unfortunately, that line only runs evenings and weekends. Fortunately, I suppose that’s when most urbanites are doing their shopping! 🙂

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On 8/3/2019 at 2:42 PM, mack34 said:

I agree with everything youre saying above....except for the K&D hate.....I just havent experienced bad service or management.  They do a fantastic job at the Halle building

The general trend with K&D is they give a lot of love to their newest properties and neglect their older ones. Ask Reserve Square/668 residents and you might get a different opinion. I tried to get an apartment at 668 five years ago and the leasing office was incompetent, didn't return calls, wasn't at the desk half the time, etc.

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Years of development news and investigating Italian mafias in Cleveland, has he finally gone insane!?!

 

on Westinghouse Redevelopment:

35 minutes ago, KJP said:

Sniffles....😭

 

on City Club Apartments:

37 minutes ago, KJP said:

Yay! 😎

 

WHAT COULD THIS MEAN!?!

 

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On 7/31/2019 at 10:49 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

Obviously financing is the main factor, but I’m with you on your frustrations on the Waterfront Line.  How infuriating is it to hear both Wolstein and FEB visitors complaining about traffic in and out of the Flats while simultaneously getting proposals from RTA that involve eliminating Waterfront Line service? It’s just mind numbing. Run frequent WL service to the Muni lots (and Tower City) Thurs-Sat evenings. Promote the hell out of it. Flats traffic problem solved. 

 

Agreed.  Friday and Saturday evenings--especially during the summer?  Seems to me that would be peak time for service.

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11 minutes ago, PaxtonMarley said:

 

Agreed.  Friday and Saturday evenings--especially during the summer?  Seems to me that would be peak time for service.

 

What happened to the Cleveland corporate community?   Progressive should be sponsoring this as a way to encourage not driving after partying in the flats.   

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19 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

What happened to the Cleveland corporate community?   Progressive should be sponsoring this as a way to encourage not driving after partying in the flats.   

 

They won't contribute if they aren't asked.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Try the transportation section......


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! About damn time!!

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=3290&CASE=DF 2019-065

 

DOWNTOWN PLAYGROUND

 Return to Case List | Start Over | Print Report (PDF format)

Project Information

Downtown/Flats Case #  DF 2019-065

Address:Great Lakes Science Center

Company:Downtown Cleveland Alliance

Architect:NA

Description:

The proposed construction of a new playground on vacant land.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! About damn time!!

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=3290&CASE=DF 2019-065

 

DOWNTOWN PLAYGROUND

 Return to Case List | Start Over | Print Report (PDF format)

Project Information

Downtown/Flats Case #  DF 2019-065

Address:Great Lakes Science Center

Company:Downtown Cleveland Alliance

Architect:NA

Description:

The proposed construction of a new playground on vacant land.

 

What an odd place for it--completely disconnected from downtown residents and clearly designed for suburban weekend visitors.  But, it's a start....

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Curious @KJP if you're thinking about taking up a protégé who will take your place on this forum after you ascend into urban heaven, where not a single surface lot can be found downtown and the skyline stretches from as far west as Westlake to as far east as Mayfield Heights 😋

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^ True. My kids would already be exhausted by the time we walked there! 

Maybe they could add a surface lot, so people can drive to it 😅

I agree though - it is a good start. 


And they reckon that the last thing she saw in her life was
Sting, singing on the roof of the Barbican

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7 minutes ago, Stormtrek said:

Curious @KJP if you're thinking about taking up a protégé who will take your place on this forum after you ascend into urban heaven, where not a single surface lot can be found downtown and the skyline stretches from as far west as Westlake to as far east as Mayfield Heights 😋

 

Don't worry. I'm not planning on moving to Copenhagen anytime soon.

 

And I want someone to take my place someday, not for me to hand it to them. But first you have to be partially retired, have lots of free time, or just nothing better to do. 🙂

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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21 hours ago, Cleburger said:

 

What an odd place for it--completely disconnected from downtown residents and clearly designed for suburban weekend visitors.  But, it's a start....

 

Thats what I said on DCA’s Facebook. I was told there was supposed to be a second one, but I guess that’s not coming to fruition now. 

 

 

F791DD9E-2062-47EB-B133-0873B54C177C.png

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On 8/9/2019 at 3:44 PM, gg707 said:

Maybe they could just turn the Galleria into a giant indoor playground (only half kidding)

honestly this is not a bad idea. maybe not the whole thing, but it would be a great location for a year-round playground.

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I'm definitely a proponent.  I used to live in Lakewood and commuted to CCF. How's the West Shoreway conversion project going? Is it achieving its objectives? Has it opened up the lakefront?

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1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I'm definitely a proponent.  I used to live in Lakewood and commuted to CCF. How's the West Shoreway conversion project going? Is it achieving its objectives? Has it opened up the lakefront?

 

The West Shoreway project has definitely made an impact, but I would stop short of calling it "opening up the lakefront."    It's still a "lite freeway" with a 35 mph speed limit that is mostly ignored.  On weekends and busy nights at Edgewater the traffic backs up for miles getting in and out of there.   

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1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I'm definitely a proponent.  I used to live in Lakewood and commuted to CCF. How's the West Shoreway conversion project going? Is it achieving its objectives? Has it opened up the lakefront?

 

@Frmr CLEder  I responded here........

 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Here's an article to read just in case you haven't already read my NEOtrans blog. 😉 To his credit, Stan has more details in this three-subject article....

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/stan-bullard-blog/westinghouse-remake-stalls

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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The issues they have with reuse of the smaller building complex (Westinghouse) could be solved by simply demolishing them, EXCEPT for the facades. Those facades have loads of bricked in windows that’d make great balconies if you stepped back 10 feet and constructed a building behind them. You could also incorporate an inner courtyard/public space that way.  That’s my fix anyhow. They have a pretty limited use in their current form. 

Edited by marty15

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13 hours ago, KJP said:

This is great- we need more traffic jams to get people out of their Single Occupancy Vehicles and into public transit. Our legislature will probably just build more highway/widen roads though 🙄

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Just now, GISguy said:

This is great- we need more traffic jams to get people out of their Single Occupancy Vehicles and into public transit. Our legislature will probably just build more highway/widen roads though 🙄

 

What's mind-numbing is that larger cities don't block off lanes and sidewalks to build big buildings. What secret sauce have they discovered that eludes Cleveland?

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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6 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

What's mind-numbing is that larger cities don't block off lanes and sidewalks to build big buildings. What secret sauce have they discovered that eludes Cleveland?

 

That's an interesting question.  When I was living in D.C., there were many scaffolding-covered sidewalks.  When big crane lifts were needed, contractors would wait until Saturday and block off the whole street.  It was a PITA on weekends, but it was a logical solution.

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8 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

What's mind-numbing is that larger cities don't block off lanes and sidewalks to build big buildings. What secret sauce have they discovered that eludes Cleveland?

Totally, didn't mean to glance over that point. It was nice when JHB actually had a sidewalk lane going on, same with Athalon (albiet it took a year). I don't understand why it isn't written into city code or something, for instance, I was amazed at the pedestrian lanes on N High St. last year - arguably one of Columbus' busiest streets, and while it created traffic, it kept peds safe.

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12 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

What's mind-numbing is that larger cities don't block off lanes and sidewalks to build big buildings. What secret sauce have they discovered that eludes Cleveland?

 

My guess is the contractors know the City is going to say yes when they ask...so they do.

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