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Cleveland: Random Development and Construction

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They did and they have added a few employees there but this is not something that will likely expand much.

 

This could potentially lead to spin off developments and companies however based on the work they are doing there.

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In the Huntington Bank thread there is a discussion on the use of the old bank lobbies---Huntington and NCB/Marble Room.  That got me thinking. In the Midland Building there was a very beautiful bank lobby for Midland Bank. Anyone know the space and its current condition? Hopefully it's still in tact. Once Sherwin Williams moves to its new HQ, I hope that old bank lobby space is used for something cool and that it still exists. It too could be a fancy restaurant and the building itself a hotel or condos.

 

I looked for a photo of the bank lobby, but could not find a single one other than a construction photo:

 

https://clevelandmemory.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/cut/id/4785/rec/3

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@KJP -- Thanks---Yes, I think that was it -- in my memory, it was even grander, but I think that was it. Funny, no google search on 'midland bank' brought that image up or even mentioned its current use.....strange. Good to see it hasn't been destroyed.

Edited by Pugu

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Before building on Public Square, the Sohio Headquarters was in the Midland Bldg and Sohio was in terrible need of office space.  Sohio inexcusably chopped this Art-deco lobby all to Hell in 1981 by inserting a mezzanine floor in the area shown above. The ceiling coffers were even punctured with the hardware needed for the institutional drop ceiling. The grand Art-deco lobbies of the Midland, Builders Exchange, & Medical Arts Buildings were all lost at around the same time

 

It was basically a sterile cubicle farm that replaced this space for a number of years. What we are looking at in KJP's photo (with that great medallion ceiling) is a 1980s restoration of the banking hall.  I'm uncertain if Sherwin Williams oversaw the restoration of this space, now referred to as The Van Sweringen Arcade - but probably, since it was restored in 1986 after Sohio left to occupy their new tower on Public Square.

I'm unable to handily get into the Cleveland Public Library news archives from where I live now in DC. 😕 My Cuyahoga &  CPL library cards have both expired.  I'll check in with family back in Clevo to try and regain access and find the article about the restoration  I remember reading about while an undergrad at CSU. 

 

Hyde Park Steakhouse is the caterer you can use if you'd like to book your event there. If you search for Van Sweringen Arcade, there are more opportunities for a good photo hit, like these

 

https://treve.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/1488-Cleveland/G0000xRHIGBIHvNE/I00004o4mQe38_m8/C00004B1RgXavHzk

 

Also,  Doesn't the ceiling of the Midland Bank lobby bring to mind the loose geometry of a 1990s medallion necktie pattern?

 

 

MG_0931.jpg

Edited by ExPatClevGuy
Update to a more useful weblink / better necktie sample
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^That's great background and info about the space, thank you. And yes, that ceiling pattern does look like a necktie!

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On 5/3/2020 at 12:27 AM, Pugu said:

In the Huntington Bank thread there is a discussion on the use of the old bank lobbies---Huntington and NCB/Marble Room.  That got me thinking. In the Midland Building there was a very beautiful bank lobby for Midland Bank. Anyone know the space and its current condition? Hopefully it's still in tact.

 

 

15 hours ago, KJP said:

Wasn't SHW's Center of Excellence the former bank lobby?

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/nzn6151d8LLgU9xg9

 

 

SHW Center of Excellence.jpg

 

Went to a company party there last year, very cool space and all the flags are still up like in this pic. Hyde Park, which is right next door, catered the event... so I believe you can rent it through them. Definitely will be curious to see what happens to this after SHW moves out.

 

Edited by mu2010

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Those outdoor lampposts and planters tho, are an abomination against good taste. 🤢

I sure would love to see a successfully scaled version of Eataly in there. (at least then the lamppost kitsch would make some kind of sense, but then again... No!)

A triumvirate concentration old-world style food halls in Cleveland would be unique, and from this locale it could create a walk-able bridge destination between Heinen's/WSM.

Edited by ExPatClevGuy
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KJP in a different thread you alluded to a possible "bigger" development on the west bank of the Flats that's NOT a Jacobs plan. I understand  you don't want to say more until the info is released but I am curious if you can answer one question?  From what I understand Jeff Jacobs has controlling interest in the parking lots and other land along the river and if he's not involved that doesn't leave much property left over for a "bigger" project. What am I missing here?

 

Also, since you feel relatively confident that announced projects will get built have you heard anything more on the City Club building breaking ground this summer?  Thanks.

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34 minutes ago, cadmen said:

KJP in a different thread you alluded to a possible "bigger" development on the west bank of the Flats that's NOT a Jacobs plan. I understand  you don't want to say more until the info is released but I am curious if you can answer one question?  From what I understand Jeff Jacobs has controlling interest in the parking lots and other land along the river and if he's not involved that doesn't leave much property left over for a "bigger" project. What am I missing here?

 

Also, since you feel relatively confident that announced projects will get built have you heard anything more on the City Club building breaking ground this summer?  Thanks.

I believe Jeff Jacobs put his west bank land up for sale last month with an asking price of about 17 mil.

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@cadmen I responded to your two questions in their appropriate threads.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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And I don't fully understand what's going on, but it seems like in addition to the coronavirus, there's a "high-rise bug" going around. I've never seen so many high-rise ideas/proposals/projects getting thrown around all at the same time like this. When I mean "high-rise," I mean anything 10 stories or higher. Some of the ideas border on the preposterous, and that's saying something coming from an urbanist/optimist like me. Obviously not all will get built, but I have to wonder if this region has the construction workforce necessary to build what's brewing. If not, where are the construction workers going to come from? I recall that more than one project in the past year had to be put on hold for want of workers, and either robots or workers relocated from rural areas are going to be needed to keep projects on schedule and on budget. Ironically, there's a housing shortage locally so we might have to deploy some of these currently closed/underutilized hotels as temporary housing for construction workers. We also may need to consider constructing modular housing to get some housing available more quickly. And don't forget to put it near major transit stops so that everyone can ride/drive to/from work/shopping/medical/etc.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

 Some of the ideas border on the preposterous, and that's saying something coming from an urbanist/optimist like me. 

 

I can't be the only one itching to know what this means. 

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5 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

 

I can't be the only one itching to know what this means. 

 

I have my money on a 1000 footer proposed by Realife.

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5 hours ago, KJP said:

I've never seen so many high-rise ideas/proposals/projects getting thrown around all at the same time like this. When I mean "high-rise," I mean anything 10 stories or higher.

Should we expect a new article soon? Or at least some hint at just how many projects you're talking about?

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6 minutes ago, tykaps said:

Should we expect a new article soon? Or at least some hint at just how many projects you're talking about?

 

Most of it is the new stuff in the Flats. Plus the stuff I wrote about four months ago....

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/01/return-of-roaring-20s-downtown.html?m=1

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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12 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Most of it is the new stuff in the Flats. Plus the stuff I wrote about four months ago....

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/01/return-of-roaring-20s-downtown.html?m=1

 

Have you heard any news on whether the various unnamed residential and commercial buildings in the works are still going forward?  It is a tough environment for CRE right now.

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2 hours ago, gg707 said:

 

Have you heard any news on whether the various unnamed residential and commercial buildings in the works are still going forward?  It is a tough environment for CRE right now.

 

Yes, just about every one of them is because the market fundamentals, for the most part, haven't changed and capital liquidity hasn't changed. The residential leasing market is a little slower but the for-sale market is still strong below a certain price point locally (about $250K-300K). I'm told the Geis condo building wasn't getting much sales activity before COVID which was the big driver behind their decision to turn that building into apartments. Supposedly that still won't affect their decision to pursue the condo high-rise on East 9th which has lots of moving parts, some of which might not be answered until the end of this year. There's another mid-/high-rise (11 stories) in the works nearby that will probably move forward first. Sherwin Williams HQ is going forward, and thus so are the spin-off projects. Another office building may be scaled back or canceled due to their positive experience in remote working (this is probably the only big negative I've heard). Perhaps another is that rumors have gone quiet on PHS Lumen II -- then again they went quiet on FEB Phase 3B until this past week. Yet nuCLEus still seems like it has a strong pulse, so I would hope to see it on design-review at an upcoming meeting agenda soon. If not, it will put its deal with Benesch in jeopardy and will deepen doubt about the overall project.  Another office building, the Justice Center may be delayed but I doubt the new jail will be delayed since the facility is in noncompliance and a new jail could actually save the county money. If the county renews the sales tax that supported the convention center and uses it for the justice center, that tower will go forward. As far as I've heard, the City Club Apartments are still going forward, albeit with a start date of "early 2021." In UC, the Circle Square development still appears to be going forward but it will likely be delayed due to permitting delays. Indeed, that's the biggest thing slowing down most projects -- the lack of design-review/landmarks/BZA meetings for two months and the continuing delays in getting permits for projects.

 

EDIT: one thing to watch out for are reported relocations from the East Coast. Walking through the parking lot on the Superior Viaduct last night, I was looking at license plates. Noticed quite a few New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania and even Illinois. I continue to see them at recently sold homes and townhouses in Lakewood as well.

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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41 minutes ago, KJP said:

EDIT: one thing to watch out for are reported relocations from the East Coast. Walking through the parking lot on the Superior Viaduct last night, I was looking at license plates. Noticed quite a few New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania and even Illinois. I continue to see them at recently sold homes and townhouses in Lakewood as well.

 

That's exciting to hear, I'm glad they're all still moving forward as of now.

 

For @KJP or anyone else who may know:  Are the "reported relocation's" from the east coast Companies, Investors or just Family's?  I've heard about relocation's too, but I was never able to find out that detail.  

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1 hour ago, KJP said:

EDIT: one thing to watch out for are reported relocations from the East Coast. Walking through the parking lot on the Superior Viaduct last night, I was looking at license plates. Noticed quite a few New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania and even Illinois. I continue to see them at recently sold homes and townhouses in Lakewood as well.


I am seeing the same all over the near west side.  


My gut is that there will be a mini exodus from NYC and the tri-state area as they come out of COVID and employers realize that everyone did fine working from home.   We could see another influx of these folks returning home or just looking for cheaper housing after ditching their NYC places.  

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That would be really awesome for the city and could help make up for some of the hit the downtown commercial market will be taking.

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21 minutes ago, Cleburger said:


I am seeing the same all over the near west side.  


My gut is that there will be a mini exodus from NYC and the tri-state area as they come out of COVID and employers realize that everyone did fine working from home.   We could see another influx of these folks returning home or just looking for cheaper housing after ditching their NYC places.  

 

No kidding. These were all taken in Hingetown w/in 30 secs of each other. NY/NJ, Illinois and Mass plates EVERYWHERE.

 

 

 

IMG_1024.jpg

IMG_1025.jpg

IMG_1026.jpg

 

Edited by Clefan98
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Can we organize something to help downtown business owners? I’m going down to help tomorrow. Be cool if we could channel the UO energy.

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Just now, marty15 said:

Can we organize something to help downtown business owners? I’m going down to help tomorrow. Be cool if we could channel the UO energy.

 

Some are meeting at 9 a.m. at these two locations...

 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I'm actually working today's shift at fire station one downtown... This is making me sick, it's heartbreaking, I feel so sorry for all the businesses I can't believe the destruction. You've seen stuff on TV but I'm at ground level and it is much worse than you can imagine. I hope this total destruction of downtown doesn't stop all projects in their tracks.

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I guess there won't be a clean-up today

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I seriously don't understand how downtown will recover from this. The businesses downtown were already hanging by a thread from the pandemic and now this. Why, if I was a business owner, want to stay downtown after this? There are break ins almost weekly, and now every storefront's inventory is probably completely gone. No way in hell Geiger's stays.

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7 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I seriously don't understand how downtown will recover from this. The businesses downtown were already hanging by a thread from the pandemic and now this. Why, if I was a business owner, want to stay downtown after this? There are break ins almost weekly, and now every storefront's inventory is probably completely gone. No way in hell Geiger's stays.

 

Good thing you weren't around in Chicago after the Great Fire, or London after the Blitz, or in New Orleans after Katrina. We'd all quit just like you.

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56 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Good thing you weren't around in Chicago after the Great Fire, or London after the Blitz, or in New Orleans after Katrina. We'd all quit just like you.

 

I heard some businesses are being warned that it will be worse today, so are being proactive and boarding-up their windows.    Any cleanup efforts should probably be put on hold until all this is calmed down.  When it does, sign me up I'll be there to help.  

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4 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

I heard some businesses are being warned that it will be worse today, so are being proactive and boarding-up their windows.    Any cleanup efforts should probably be put on hold until all this is calmed down.  When it does, sign me up I'll be there to help.  

 

See my post in the Cleveland Downtown Residences thread in City Discussion. The clean-up was underway this morning with a huge number of people involved. I don't have the physical ability to help anymore, but I will donate $1,000 to help downtown clean-up efforts and encourage others to help out physically or financially. 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I’d love to see an UrbanOhio Northeast Ohio Projects fund where those of us both in and out of town could donate to help local businesses repair damages. 

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9 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I’d love to see an UrbanOhio Northeast Ohio Projects fund where those of us both in and out of town could donate to help local businesses repair damages. 

 

Anyone here on UO work at a bank and can set one up? If not, I'll continue to ask DCA if they have such a fund or will create one.

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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9 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I seriously don't understand how downtown will recover from this. The businesses downtown were already hanging by a thread from the pandemic and now this. Why, if I was a business owner, want to stay downtown after this? There are break ins almost weekly, and now every storefront's inventory is probably completely gone. No way in hell Geiger's stays.

 

You only come here to gloat when there's a problem.  You're nothing but a vulture.

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Downtown will recover. Stores will reopen, businesses will rebuild. Standard business insurance covers losses from damages from rioting - fire, looting, vandalism. Downtown and Cleveland are resilient. Stores/restaurants that do shut will be replaced. I want to point out too that some businesses (W6th and W9th) were open and serving protesters even late into the day. 

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3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Good thing you weren't around in Chicago after the Great Fire, or London after the Blitz, or in New Orleans after Katrina. We'd all quit just like you.

Really you're going to compare the capital of the midwest to one of the poorest in the nation, the biggest city in the UK, and a city driven by tourism. You can't even open an urban target downtown. The owner's of Intro on Prospect literally stated they don't know if they will reopen. Cleveland doesn't have any where near the amount of investment as the 3 cities you listed.

 

Did they rebuild Hough? Did they rebuild Glenville? Are those areas not economically depressed over 50 years since those riots happened?

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26 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Really you're going to compare the capital of the midwest to one of the poorest in the nation, the biggest city in the UK, and a city driven by tourism. You can't even open an urban target downtown. The owner's of Intro on Prospect literally stated they don't know if they will reopen. Cleveland doesn't have any where near the amount of investment as the 3 cities you listed.

 

Did they rebuild Hough? Did they rebuild Glenville? Are those areas not economically depressed over 50 years since those riots happened?

 

So I guess you weren't downtown this morning cleaning up and rebuilding and donating your money to help out? Instead, you're....

 

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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

So I guess you weren't downtown this morning cleaning up and rebuilding and donating your money to help out? Instead, you're....

 

I was downtown this morning cleaning up the glass in front of Shake shack. Where exactly were you? Are you aware that there has been a curfew going on since noon? I respect how you do your due diligence to provide us the information of development in the city, but seriously take your blinders off. What if these rioters came to your neighborhood in Lakewood and looted every single store front on Madison Ave? Until that happens, I think I have the right to be upset regarding the neighborhood I've called home for 3 years was completely vandalized, looted, and the business owners I call my neighbors basically lost all fruits of their blood sweat and tears in a single night. Living downtown for years, I see first hand the difficulty in building here, while visiting those three cities you mention, a new business opens almost instantaneously. It's always a suburbanite like yourself telling people who actually live in this city how we should think. 

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17 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I was downtown this morning cleaning up the glass in front of Shake shack. Where exactly were you? Are you aware that there has been a curfew going on since noon? I respect how you do your due diligence to provide us the information of development in the city, but seriously take your blinders off. What if these rioters came to your neighborhood in Lakewood and looted every single store front on Madison Ave? Until that happens, I think I have the right to be upset regarding the neighborhood I've called home for 3 years was completely vandalized, looted, and the business owners I call my neighbors basically lost all fruits of their blood sweat and tears in a single night. Living downtown for years, I see first hand the difficulty in building here, while visiting those three cities you mention, a new business opens almost instantaneously. It's always a suburbanite like yourself telling people who actually live in this city how we should think. 


 

You have a right the be frustrated. The were riots in 70 cities over the last few days. Most of cities saw significant property damage. Even smaller cities like Grand Rapids saw significant damage to downtown business. Cleveland will rebuild. Some businesses won’t come back, some will be replaced by new businesses. Let’s take a deep breath. What happened over the last few days is unprecedented. 

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2 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I was downtown this morning cleaning up the glass in front of Shake shack. Where exactly were you? Are you aware that there has been a curfew going on since noon? I respect how you do your due diligence to provide us the information of development in the city, but seriously take your blinders off. What if these rioters came to your neighborhood in Lakewood and looted every single store front on Madison Ave? Until that happens, I think I have the right to be upset regarding the neighborhood I've called home for 3 years was completely vandalized, looted, and the business owners I call my neighbors basically lost all fruits of their blood sweat and tears in a single night. Living downtown for years, I see first hand the difficulty in building here, while visiting those three cities you mention, a new business opens almost instantaneously. It's always a suburbanite like yourself telling people who actually live in this city how we should think. 

 

Sorry, I'm not going to engage in a competition over who cares more or who is upset more. You certainly have the right to be upset over what happened last night -- as do I. But this is a thread for development and looking ahead. The future is unknowable and thus undebatable. The only thing that matters is what we say and do next.

Edited by KJP
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"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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If it's any consolation, this has occured in every major city in the US; even shops on Rodeo Drive and Melrose in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills were not immune to the vandals and looters.

 

Cleveland is not alone. We experienced the same destruction in Miami and surrounding communities. It does appear however that we are revisiting the same issues that sparked the Hough Riots and other rioting in the 60s. Have we learned nothing in the past 60 years?

 

I am disheartened by Geigers and Heinens though because they were important downtown retail anchors. I'm sure they will endure.

 

As KJP mentioned above, we do need to think about how we get through and beyond this.

 

Unfortunately, as has become abundantly clear, it will require a national discussion, leadership and the will to fix what has been, and continues to be wrong in our society; wrong for centuries.

 

We cannot continue to have black people targeted and murdered indiscrimantly, our businesses vandalized and looted and our beautiful cities maimed and destroyed.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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^ I don't know if Gieger's will endure or not. They never seemed to be very busy even before COVID and now the looting.  FWIW i think they've been vandalized a few times in the past too.

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